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[Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

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  • chcoa
    Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy that s barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :) jamie in az (108 F today)
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
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      Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy
      that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :)

      jamie in az (108 F today)

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
      <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
      > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
      pad. Tom
      > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
      hammock down
      > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
      kit is
      > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
      under
      > the torso.
      > Jerry
      >
      >
      >
      > <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
      > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
      > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
      >
      >
      > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
      do. I
      > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
      (20
      > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
      pad
      > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
      unzip
      > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
      > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
      >
      > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
      >
      > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
      >
      > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
      some
      > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
      > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
      this
      > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
      I'll
      > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
      >
      > - Steve
      >
      > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
      >
      > > 50 F? That sounds dissapointing. I can get to that with my
      winter
      > > bag and
      > > thermarest now. It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
      >
      >
      >
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    • Jerry Goller
      Well, he s also working on an under quilt that will go much lower. Jerry http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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        Well, he's also working on an under quilt that will go much lower.
        Jerry
         
         

        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: chcoa [mailto:jdeben@...]
        Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:28 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

        Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that.  Boy
        that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives.  :)

        jamie in az (108 F today)

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
        <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
        > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
        pad. Tom
        > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
        hammock down
        > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
        kit is
        > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
        under
        > the torso.
        > Jerry


        >
        >  <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
        > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
        >

        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
        > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
        >
        >
        > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
        do. I
        > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
        (20
        > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
        pad
        > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
        unzip
        > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
        > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
        >
        > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
        >
        > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
        >
        > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
        some
        > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
        > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
        this
        > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
        I'll
        > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
        >
        > - Steve
        >
        > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
        >
        > > 50 F?  That sounds dissapointing.  I can get to that with my
        winter
        > > bag and
        > > thermarest now.  It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
        >
        >
        >
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      • Rick
        I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier when I am
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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          I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
          a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier
          when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long winter
          nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours of
          sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

          Rick

          Jerry Goller wrote:

          > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
          > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
          > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
          > long to spend them in a hammock....
          > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
          > Jerry
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
          > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
          > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
          > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
          >
          > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a hammock
          > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats the
          > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
          > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
          >
          > Coy Boy
          >
          >
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        • Jerry Goller
          Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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            Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation in the foam. He's trying to make an incremental insulation setup so as to be light as possible considering the individual's body metabolism and the conditions for any particular trip. He feels that ratings, other than ones you find out on your own about yourself and your preferred gear combos, probably don't mean all that much. It's just something each of you will have to play with and establish your own combination that works for you.
            Jerry
             
             

            http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Rick [mailto:ra1@...]
            Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 5:39 AM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

            I agree with Jerry here.  It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
            a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind.  It lets me rest easier
            when I am wondering what the weather is really up to.  But long winter
            nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me.  After about 6 hours of
            sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

            Rick

            Jerry Goller wrote:

            > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
            > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
            > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
            > long to spend them in a hammock....
            > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
            > Jerry


            >
            > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
            > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
            >

            >
            >     -----Original Message-----
            >     *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
            >     *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
            >     *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            >     *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
            >
            >     just to be contrary,  I think most people interested in a hammock
            >     down to 50 will want to go year round.  But as you say thats the
            >     beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
            >     take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
            >
            >     Coy Boy
            >
            >
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          • Steve
            ...getting off topic.... Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we re also talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in january,
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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              ...getting off topic....

              Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we're also
              talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in
              january, and need to develop some training for the plc. would love
              to see what you've developed. would you mind sharing?

              If you'd like, you can email me off list...

              Thanks!

              Steve (I used to be a fox...)

              ....back to topic!

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@g...>
              wrote:
              > No snakes either, And usually no people.
              >
              > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
              > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
              >
              > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: jonas4321@j... <jonas4321@j...>
              > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:48:17 -0400
              > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I
              > have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping
              > training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people.
              And
              > the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
              >
              > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller"
              > <jerrygoller@b...> writes:
              >
              > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want
              to
              > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like
              an
              > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
              > long to spend them in a hammock....
              > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
              > Jerry
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • David Chinell
              Ralph: Well *I* sure would like a copy. dchinell@msn.com - if you don t post it to the list. Always interested in learning from others. Bear ... From: Ralph
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                Ralph:

                Well *I* sure would like a copy.

                dchinell@... - if you don't post it to the list.

                Always interested in learning from others.

                Bear



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@...]
                Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                No snakes either, And usually no people.

                Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                I developed it for our local University of Scouting.

                Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
              • Dick Matthews
                The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10. The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later. 13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                  The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10.  The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later.

                  13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and UnderPad.
                  vs.
                  25"X72"X3/8" closed cell pad 10.1 oz.

                  I hike primarily in the Colorado Rockies above 10,000 feet.  Frost on the 4th of July is normal.  On Memorial Day weekend we had an overnight low of 15.  On Labor Day weekend I got about 4" of snow. 

                  The set up video on the Hennessy site is very helpful and will reduce the initial setup time.  I enjoy experimenting with gear at home, but have a very low tolerance for gear with a high fiddle factor while hiking.  If this system needs to be broken down every morning and set up every night it is a deal breaker for me.  I will figure out a system for carrying it almost assembled or I will revert to the pad.  The assembled pad, undercover and hammock can be stuffed into the side mesh pocket of a Six Moon Designs Starlite pack.  The mesh pocket does not provide enough protection for the open cell pad - a silnylon stuff sack or switching with gear inside the pack when the weather is bad or while bushwacking may be necessary.  The Jacks ‘r’ Better Python Skins might be the better answer.

                  Tom Hennessy recommends using a second UnderPad or additional insulation in the UnderCover for colder temperatures.  On future hikes I will experiment with a space blanket, a couple of Gossamer Gear ThinLight pads, and a PolarGuard Delta 2" loft quilt.

                  The Campmor Ultralite Extension Poncho/Tarp has been a very good replacement fly for the hammock, but a rain jacket to wear around camp is needed.

                  Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.

                  I have been trimming the 72" closed cell pad by 6" each time and sleeping a few nights with the shortened pad to see how long a pad is necessary for comfort with an Nunatak Arc Alpinist.  The pad is currently at 60" and I think I will take another 6" off.

                  I started with a Big Agnes Zirkle bag and a RidgeRest pad cut to mummy shape but now have converted to the Arc Alpinist with the 25" wide closed cell pad.  The quilt allows you to bend the knees a lot more and 20" wide pad was just not wide enough to prevent cold compression spots.

                  This post is weak on trail testing, but there was so much curiosity about the system that even incomplete information may be interesting.  The shelter is out there being used and by Thanksgiving we all will know a lot more

                  Dick Matthews


                  SF Nazdarovye wrote:
                  On Sep 10, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Coy wrote:
                  
                    
                   Out
                  in the Sierras it gets a lot colder than here in the southeast but
                  the air is usually dryer.  I find the really cold nights (mid 20's)
                  around here as comfortable as those 40 degeree nights when its rainy
                  and damp cause whe it gets really cold around here it is usually
                  when the air is the driest.
                      
                  Agreed - that's definitely a factor. So is wind, which hammocks seem 
                  particularly susceptible to (that's why I wanted to try the slit trench 
                  in winter).
                  
                  I do like the sound of the flexible system Hennessy has come up with - 
                  sounds fairly flexible, and I look forward to trying it out at some 
                  point.
                  
                  - Steve
                  
                  
                  
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                • Ralph Oborn
                  Good Idea David, I put my file under files/Ralph s stuff. I know it is a little off topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a year and
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                    Good Idea David,


                    I put my file under files/Ralph's stuff. I know it is a little off
                    topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a
                    year and I just don't see a hammock working well at that temp (but
                    must keep camping).
                    Someone suggested we figure a way to hammock hang in an Igloo. I'm
                    working on that. Needed: one big (long) igloo, and sturdy anchors or
                    well placed trees....... Working on it.

                    Ralph (Igloo hanger wannabee)



                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                    > Ralph:
                    >
                    > Well *I* sure would like a copy.
                    >
                    > dchinell@m... - if you don't post it to the list.
                    >
                    > Always interested in learning from others.
                    >
                    > Bear
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@g...]
                    > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                    >
                    >
                    > No snakes either, And usually no people.
                    >
                    > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                    > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
                    >
                    > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                  • Jerry Goller
                    I ve also used 2 polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                      Message
                      I've also used 2" polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each end to stop cutting and it makes it easier to do the figure 8 lashing. I have them in 6', 8', and 10'. I use a black one for the foot end and a green one for the head end. With skins on, it makes it easier to tell end from end.
                      Jerry
                       
                       

                      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Dick Matthews [mailto:dick@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 1:36 PM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                      Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.


                      Dick Matthews

                    • Coy
                      I ve stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more what you do on the AT)
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
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                        I've stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i
                        usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more
                        what you do on the AT) so I may not turn in till late. I can read
                        much easier in my hammock. In fact in a small tent I cant do much
                        of nothing comfortably. In the winter i usually get up early and
                        stike camp in the dark. whether I hike a while or fix breakfast
                        depends on how cold it is. If it is really cold i will probably
                        hike awhile (helps warm me up) till i find a good place to fix
                        breakfast and by 8 or so it usually has warmed up quite a bit.
                        Cours again the weather in Al is much warmer all around than you,
                        Jerry or Steve deal with.

                        Coy Boy

                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                        > I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep
                        well in
                        > a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest
                        easier
                        > when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long
                        winter
                        > nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours
                        of
                        > sleeping, I need to be doing something else.
                        >
                        > Rick
                        >
                        > Jerry Goller wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't
                        want to
                        > > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also
                        like an
                        > > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are
                        pretty
                        > > long to spend them in a hammock....
                        > > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                        > > Jerry
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org
                        <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                        > > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the
                        planet.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@y...]
                        > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                        > > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        > > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                        > >
                        > > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a
                        hammock
                        > > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats
                        the
                        > > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt)
                        you can
                        > > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold
                        weather.
                        > >
                        > > Coy Boy
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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                        > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                        > >
                        > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
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                        > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      • David Chinell
                        Ralph: Thanks. That was a fun read. I m an expatriate Canadian living in Florida now, so there s not as much opportunity for building snow trenches. My sister
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
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                          Ralph:

                          Thanks. That was a fun read. I'm an expatriate
                          Canadian living in Florida now, so there's not as
                          much opportunity for building snow trenches. My
                          sister still lives in Canada though.... Hmmmmm.

                          Bear
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