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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

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  • Ralph Oborn
    No snakes either, And usually no people. Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping? I developed it for our local University of Scouting. Ralph (
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
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      No snakes either, And usually no people.

      Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
      I developed it for our local University of Scouting.

      Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: jonas4321@... <jonas4321@...>
      Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:48:17 -0400
      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com


      The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I
      have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping
      training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people. And
      the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.

      On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller"
      <jerrygoller@...> writes:

      Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
      want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
      enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
      long to spend them in a hammock....
      I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
      Jerry




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    • Jerry Goller
      I did the original testing when Tom was trying to come up with something to work in deep winter. While I successfully slept in a hammock at 5 F, I was also in
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
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        I did the original testing when Tom was trying to come up with something to work in deep winter. While I successfully slept in a hammock at 5 F, I was also in a typical Utah winter....deep snow. I just never felt a hammock would be a suitable shelter for winter here.
        Jerry
         
         

        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@...]
        Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:27 PM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

        On Sep 10, 2004, at 9:14 PM, Jerry Goller wrote:

        > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
        > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
        > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
        > long to spend them in a hammock....

        LOL - that's a factor I'd not thought much about (I always check for
        widowmakers; guess it wouldn't hurt to look for heavily-laden branches
        as well).

        I guess my interest in the winter hammocking thing is as much out of
        curiosity as anything...I also am more comfortable with a shelter (even
        if just my tarptent) to crawl into and hang out in, especially if the
        weather goes south. Not too eager to be pinned inside a hammock in a
        howling blizzard.

        That said, for quick winter overnights in decent weather here in CA
        I've enjoyed using the hammock so far, and wouldn't mind expanding its
        temperature range. It sure is comfy to sleep in...

        - Steve


      • Jerry Goller
        Oh, I definitely agree that winter camping can be better for the reasons you mentioned. But I d still rather have a tent for deep snow conditions. Jerry
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
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          Oh, I definitely agree that winter camping can be better for the reasons you mentioned. But I'd still rather have a tent for deep snow conditions.
          Jerry
           
           

          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: jonas4321@... [mailto:jonas4321@...]
          Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:48 PM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

          The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people. And the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
           
          On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@...> writes:
          Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty long to spend them in a hammock....
          I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
          Jerry
           

        • chcoa
          Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy that s barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :) jamie in az (108 F today)
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
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            Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy
            that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :)

            jamie in az (108 F today)

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
            <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
            > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
            pad. Tom
            > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
            hammock down
            > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
            kit is
            > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
            under
            > the torso.
            > Jerry
            >
            >
            >
            > <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
            http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
            > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
            > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
            > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
            >
            >
            > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
            do. I
            > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
            (20
            > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
            pad
            > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
            unzip
            > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
            > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
            >
            > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
            >
            > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
            >
            > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
            some
            > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
            > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
            this
            > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
            I'll
            > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
            >
            > - Steve
            >
            > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
            >
            > > 50 F? That sounds dissapointing. I can get to that with my
            winter
            > > bag and
            > > thermarest now. It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
            >
            >
            >
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          • Jerry Goller
            Well, he s also working on an under quilt that will go much lower. Jerry http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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              Well, he's also working on an under quilt that will go much lower.
              Jerry
               
               

              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: chcoa [mailto:jdeben@...]
              Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:28 AM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

              Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that.  Boy
              that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives.  :)

              jamie in az (108 F today)

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
              <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
              > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
              pad. Tom
              > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
              hammock down
              > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
              kit is
              > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
              under
              > the torso.
              > Jerry


              >
              >  <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
              > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
              >

              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
              >
              >
              > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
              do. I
              > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
              (20
              > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
              pad
              > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
              unzip
              > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
              > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
              >
              > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
              >
              > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
              >
              > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
              some
              > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
              > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
              this
              > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
              I'll
              > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
              >
              > - Steve
              >
              > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
              >
              > > 50 F?  That sounds dissapointing.  I can get to that with my
              winter
              > > bag and
              > > thermarest now.  It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
              >
              >
              >
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            • Rick
              I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier when I am
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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                I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
                a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier
                when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long winter
                nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours of
                sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

                Rick

                Jerry Goller wrote:

                > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                > long to spend them in a hammock....
                > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                > Jerry
                >
                >
                >
                > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                >
                > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a hammock
                > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats the
                > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
                > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
                >
                > Coy Boy
                >
                >
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              • Jerry Goller
                Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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                  Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation in the foam. He's trying to make an incremental insulation setup so as to be light as possible considering the individual's body metabolism and the conditions for any particular trip. He feels that ratings, other than ones you find out on your own about yourself and your preferred gear combos, probably don't mean all that much. It's just something each of you will have to play with and establish your own combination that works for you.
                  Jerry
                   
                   

                  http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Rick [mailto:ra1@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 5:39 AM
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

                  I agree with Jerry here.  It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
                  a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind.  It lets me rest easier
                  when I am wondering what the weather is really up to.  But long winter
                  nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me.  After about 6 hours of
                  sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

                  Rick

                  Jerry Goller wrote:

                  > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                  > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                  > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                  > long to spend them in a hammock....
                  > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                  > Jerry


                  >
                  > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                  > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                  >

                  >
                  >     -----Original Message-----
                  >     *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                  >     *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                  >     *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  >     *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                  >
                  >     just to be contrary,  I think most people interested in a hammock
                  >     down to 50 will want to go year round.  But as you say thats the
                  >     beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
                  >     take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
                  >
                  >     Coy Boy
                  >
                  >
                  > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129uk21ml/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=1705065843:HM/EXP=1094962502/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://companion.yahoo.com>
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                  >
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                • Steve
                  ...getting off topic.... Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we re also talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in january,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
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                    ...getting off topic....

                    Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we're also
                    talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in
                    january, and need to develop some training for the plc. would love
                    to see what you've developed. would you mind sharing?

                    If you'd like, you can email me off list...

                    Thanks!

                    Steve (I used to be a fox...)

                    ....back to topic!

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@g...>
                    wrote:
                    > No snakes either, And usually no people.
                    >
                    > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                    > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
                    >
                    > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: jonas4321@j... <jonas4321@j...>
                    > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:48:17 -0400
                    > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    > The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I
                    > have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping
                    > training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people.
                    And
                    > the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
                    >
                    > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller"
                    > <jerrygoller@b...> writes:
                    >
                    > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want
                    to
                    > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like
                    an
                    > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                    > long to spend them in a hammock....
                    > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                    > Jerry
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
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                  • David Chinell
                    Ralph: Well *I* sure would like a copy. dchinell@msn.com - if you don t post it to the list. Always interested in learning from others. Bear ... From: Ralph
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                      Ralph:

                      Well *I* sure would like a copy.

                      dchinell@... - if you don't post it to the list.

                      Always interested in learning from others.

                      Bear



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                      No snakes either, And usually no people.

                      Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                      I developed it for our local University of Scouting.

                      Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                    • Dick Matthews
                      The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10. The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later. 13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                        The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10.  The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later.

                        13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and UnderPad.
                        vs.
                        25"X72"X3/8" closed cell pad 10.1 oz.

                        I hike primarily in the Colorado Rockies above 10,000 feet.  Frost on the 4th of July is normal.  On Memorial Day weekend we had an overnight low of 15.  On Labor Day weekend I got about 4" of snow. 

                        The set up video on the Hennessy site is very helpful and will reduce the initial setup time.  I enjoy experimenting with gear at home, but have a very low tolerance for gear with a high fiddle factor while hiking.  If this system needs to be broken down every morning and set up every night it is a deal breaker for me.  I will figure out a system for carrying it almost assembled or I will revert to the pad.  The assembled pad, undercover and hammock can be stuffed into the side mesh pocket of a Six Moon Designs Starlite pack.  The mesh pocket does not provide enough protection for the open cell pad - a silnylon stuff sack or switching with gear inside the pack when the weather is bad or while bushwacking may be necessary.  The Jacks ‘r’ Better Python Skins might be the better answer.

                        Tom Hennessy recommends using a second UnderPad or additional insulation in the UnderCover for colder temperatures.  On future hikes I will experiment with a space blanket, a couple of Gossamer Gear ThinLight pads, and a PolarGuard Delta 2" loft quilt.

                        The Campmor Ultralite Extension Poncho/Tarp has been a very good replacement fly for the hammock, but a rain jacket to wear around camp is needed.

                        Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.

                        I have been trimming the 72" closed cell pad by 6" each time and sleeping a few nights with the shortened pad to see how long a pad is necessary for comfort with an Nunatak Arc Alpinist.  The pad is currently at 60" and I think I will take another 6" off.

                        I started with a Big Agnes Zirkle bag and a RidgeRest pad cut to mummy shape but now have converted to the Arc Alpinist with the 25" wide closed cell pad.  The quilt allows you to bend the knees a lot more and 20" wide pad was just not wide enough to prevent cold compression spots.

                        This post is weak on trail testing, but there was so much curiosity about the system that even incomplete information may be interesting.  The shelter is out there being used and by Thanksgiving we all will know a lot more

                        Dick Matthews


                        SF Nazdarovye wrote:
                        On Sep 10, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Coy wrote:
                        
                          
                         Out
                        in the Sierras it gets a lot colder than here in the southeast but
                        the air is usually dryer.  I find the really cold nights (mid 20's)
                        around here as comfortable as those 40 degeree nights when its rainy
                        and damp cause whe it gets really cold around here it is usually
                        when the air is the driest.
                            
                        Agreed - that's definitely a factor. So is wind, which hammocks seem 
                        particularly susceptible to (that's why I wanted to try the slit trench 
                        in winter).
                        
                        I do like the sound of the flexible system Hennessy has come up with - 
                        sounds fairly flexible, and I look forward to trying it out at some 
                        point.
                        
                        - Steve
                        
                        
                        
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                      • Ralph Oborn
                        Good Idea David, I put my file under files/Ralph s stuff. I know it is a little off topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a year and
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                          Good Idea David,


                          I put my file under files/Ralph's stuff. I know it is a little off
                          topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a
                          year and I just don't see a hammock working well at that temp (but
                          must keep camping).
                          Someone suggested we figure a way to hammock hang in an Igloo. I'm
                          working on that. Needed: one big (long) igloo, and sturdy anchors or
                          well placed trees....... Working on it.

                          Ralph (Igloo hanger wannabee)



                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                          <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                          > Ralph:
                          >
                          > Well *I* sure would like a copy.
                          >
                          > dchinell@m... - if you don't post it to the list.
                          >
                          > Always interested in learning from others.
                          >
                          > Bear
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@g...]
                          > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                          >
                          >
                          > No snakes either, And usually no people.
                          >
                          > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                          > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
                          >
                          > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                        • Jerry Goller
                          I ve also used 2 polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
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                            Message
                            I've also used 2" polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each end to stop cutting and it makes it easier to do the figure 8 lashing. I have them in 6', 8', and 10'. I use a black one for the foot end and a green one for the head end. With skins on, it makes it easier to tell end from end.
                            Jerry
                             
                             

                            http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Dick Matthews [mailto:dick@...]
                            Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 1:36 PM
                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                            Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.


                            Dick Matthews

                          • Coy
                            I ve stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more what you do on the AT)
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
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                              I've stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i
                              usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more
                              what you do on the AT) so I may not turn in till late. I can read
                              much easier in my hammock. In fact in a small tent I cant do much
                              of nothing comfortably. In the winter i usually get up early and
                              stike camp in the dark. whether I hike a while or fix breakfast
                              depends on how cold it is. If it is really cold i will probably
                              hike awhile (helps warm me up) till i find a good place to fix
                              breakfast and by 8 or so it usually has warmed up quite a bit.
                              Cours again the weather in Al is much warmer all around than you,
                              Jerry or Steve deal with.

                              Coy Boy

                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                              > I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep
                              well in
                              > a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest
                              easier
                              > when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long
                              winter
                              > nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours
                              of
                              > sleeping, I need to be doing something else.
                              >
                              > Rick
                              >
                              > Jerry Goller wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't
                              want to
                              > > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also
                              like an
                              > > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are
                              pretty
                              > > long to spend them in a hammock....
                              > > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                              > > Jerry
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org
                              <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                              > > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the
                              planet.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@y...]
                              > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                              > > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              > > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                              > >
                              > > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a
                              hammock
                              > > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats
                              the
                              > > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt)
                              you can
                              > > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold
                              weather.
                              > >
                              > > Coy Boy
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
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                            • David Chinell
                              Ralph: Thanks. That was a fun read. I m an expatriate Canadian living in Florida now, so there s not as much opportunity for building snow trenches. My sister
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
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                                Ralph:

                                Thanks. That was a fun read. I'm an expatriate
                                Canadian living in Florida now, so there's not as
                                much opportunity for building snow trenches. My
                                sister still lives in Canada though.... Hmmmmm.

                                Bear
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