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[Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

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  • Coy
    just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a hammock down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats the beauty of using different
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
      just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a hammock
      down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats the
      beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
      take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.

      Coy Boy

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
      <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
      > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
      pad. Tom
      > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
      hammock down
      > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
      kit is
      > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam
      sections under
      > the torso.
      > Jerry
      >
      >
      >
      > <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
      > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the
      planet.
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
      > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
      >
      >
      > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
      do. I
      > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything
      special (20
      > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
      pad
      > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
      unzip
      > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter
      kit
      > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
      >
      > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
      >
      > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
      >
      > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
      some
      > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
      > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
      this
      > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
      I'll
      > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
      >
      > - Steve
      >
      > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
      >
      > > 50 F? That sounds dissapointing. I can get to that with my
      winter
      > > bag and
      > > thermarest now. It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
      >
      >
      >
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    • SF Nazdarovye
      ... Agreed - that s definitely a factor. So is wind, which hammocks seem particularly susceptible to (that s why I wanted to try the slit trench in winter). I
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
        On Sep 10, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Coy wrote:

        > Out
        > in the Sierras it gets a lot colder than here in the southeast but
        > the air is usually dryer. I find the really cold nights (mid 20's)
        > around here as comfortable as those 40 degeree nights when its rainy
        > and damp cause whe it gets really cold around here it is usually
        > when the air is the driest.

        Agreed - that's definitely a factor. So is wind, which hammocks seem
        particularly susceptible to (that's why I wanted to try the slit trench
        in winter).

        I do like the sound of the flexible system Hennessy has come up with -
        sounds fairly flexible, and I look forward to trying it out at some
        point.

        - Steve
      • Jerry Goller
        Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don t want to want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an enclosed shelter
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
          Message
          Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty long to spend them in a hammock....
          I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
          Jerry
           
           

          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
          Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

          just to be contrary,  I think most people interested in a hammock
          down to 50 will want to go year round.  But as you say thats the
          beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
          take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.

          Coy Boy

        • jonas4321@juno.com
          Has the issue of open-cell foam soaking up sweat been commented on? It would seem to me that once the pads get wet with sweat, they would increase the chilling
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
            Has the issue of open-cell foam soaking up sweat been commented on? It
            would seem to me that once the pads get wet with sweat, they would
            increase the chilling effect. Which, I suppose would stop the sweating,
            but...

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          • SF Nazdarovye
            ... LOL - that s a factor I d not thought much about (I always check for widowmakers; guess it wouldn t hurt to look for heavily-laden branches as well). I
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
              On Sep 10, 2004, at 9:14 PM, Jerry Goller wrote:

              > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
              > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
              > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
              > long to spend them in a hammock....

              LOL - that's a factor I'd not thought much about (I always check for
              widowmakers; guess it wouldn't hurt to look for heavily-laden branches
              as well).

              I guess my interest in the winter hammocking thing is as much out of
              curiosity as anything...I also am more comfortable with a shelter (even
              if just my tarptent) to crawl into and hang out in, especially if the
              weather goes south. Not too eager to be pinned inside a hammock in a
              howling blizzard.

              That said, for quick winter overnights in decent weather here in CA
              I've enjoyed using the hammock so far, and wouldn't mind expanding its
              temperature range. It sure is comfy to sleep in...

              - Steve
            • jonas4321@juno.com
              The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping training as a Boy Scout
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
                Message
                The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people. And the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
                 
                On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@...> writes:
                Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty long to spend them in a hammock....
                I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                Jerry
                 
              • Ralph Oborn
                No snakes either, And usually no people. Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping? I developed it for our local University of Scouting. Ralph (
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
                  No snakes either, And usually no people.

                  Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                  I developed it for our local University of Scouting.

                  Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jonas4321@... <jonas4321@...>
                  Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:48:17 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com


                  The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I
                  have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping
                  training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people. And
                  the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.

                  On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller"
                  <jerrygoller@...> writes:

                  Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                  want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                  enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                  long to spend them in a hammock....
                  I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                  Jerry




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                • Jerry Goller
                  I did the original testing when Tom was trying to come up with something to work in deep winter. While I successfully slept in a hammock at 5 F, I was also in
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
                    Message
                    I did the original testing when Tom was trying to come up with something to work in deep winter. While I successfully slept in a hammock at 5 F, I was also in a typical Utah winter....deep snow. I just never felt a hammock would be a suitable shelter for winter here.
                    Jerry
                     
                     

                    http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@...]
                    Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:27 PM
                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

                    On Sep 10, 2004, at 9:14 PM, Jerry Goller wrote:

                    > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                    > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                    > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                    > long to spend them in a hammock....

                    LOL - that's a factor I'd not thought much about (I always check for
                    widowmakers; guess it wouldn't hurt to look for heavily-laden branches
                    as well).

                    I guess my interest in the winter hammocking thing is as much out of
                    curiosity as anything...I also am more comfortable with a shelter (even
                    if just my tarptent) to crawl into and hang out in, especially if the
                    weather goes south. Not too eager to be pinned inside a hammock in a
                    howling blizzard.

                    That said, for quick winter overnights in decent weather here in CA
                    I've enjoyed using the hammock so far, and wouldn't mind expanding its
                    temperature range. It sure is comfy to sleep in...

                    - Steve


                  • Jerry Goller
                    Oh, I definitely agree that winter camping can be better for the reasons you mentioned. But I d still rather have a tent for deep snow conditions. Jerry
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
                      Message
                      Oh, I definitely agree that winter camping can be better for the reasons you mentioned. But I'd still rather have a tent for deep snow conditions.
                      Jerry
                       
                       

                      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jonas4321@... [mailto:jonas4321@...]
                      Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 10:48 PM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

                      The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people. And the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
                       
                      On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller" <jerrygoller@...> writes:
                      Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty long to spend them in a hammock....
                      I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                      Jerry
                       

                    • chcoa
                      Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy that s barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :) jamie in az (108 F today)
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 10, 2004
                        Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that. Boy
                        that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives. :)

                        jamie in az (108 F today)

                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                        <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                        > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
                        pad. Tom
                        > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
                        hammock down
                        > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
                        kit is
                        > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
                        under
                        > the torso.
                        > Jerry
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
                        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
                        > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
                        > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
                        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                        >
                        >
                        > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
                        do. I
                        > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
                        (20
                        > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
                        pad
                        > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
                        unzip
                        > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
                        > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
                        >
                        > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
                        >
                        > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
                        >
                        > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
                        some
                        > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
                        > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
                        this
                        > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
                        I'll
                        > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
                        >
                        > - Steve
                        >
                        > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
                        >
                        > > 50 F? That sounds dissapointing. I can get to that with my
                        winter
                        > > bag and
                        > > thermarest now. It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Jerry Goller
                        Well, he s also working on an under quilt that will go much lower. Jerry http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
                          Message
                          Well, he's also working on an under quilt that will go much lower.
                          Jerry
                           
                           

                          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: chcoa [mailto:jdeben@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 12:28 AM
                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

                          Down to 50, geez, even us desert dwellers need more than that.  Boy
                          that's barely enough for summer hammocking where Rick lives.  :)

                          jamie in az (108 F today)

                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                          <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                          > 5 F is the coldest I've taken one down to, using a conventional
                          pad. Tom
                          > believes that 80% of his customers want to be able to take the
                          hammock down
                          > to 50 F or so and not much more. I agree with him. But the Winter
                          kit is
                          > easily expanded to much colder temps by simply adding foam sections
                          under
                          > the torso.
                          > Jerry


                          >
                          >  <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/>
                          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the
                          > most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                          >

                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: SF Nazdarovye [mailto:nazdarovye@y...]
                          > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 11:32 AM
                          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                          >
                          >
                          > Hmm - perhaps it varies with metabolism, just like sleeping bags
                          do. I
                          > have been down into the 30s in my Hennessy without anything special
                          (20
                          > degree bag and thermal liner; ProLite 3 under torso and foam sit
                          pad
                          > under legs) and was literally too warm much of the night (had to
                          unzip
                          > the bag and roll down the liner), so I'm hoping that the winter kit
                          > will let me extend that by 10-20 degrees.
                          >
                          > Here's the Hennessy in those conditions at Yosemite:
                          >
                          > http://www.brilliantmedia.com/bp/bvc/pages/page_12.html
                          >
                          > I was hoping on that trip to dig a slit trench in the snow between
                          some
                          > trees and hang the Hennessy inside the trench to see if it would
                          > increase the comfort range, but the snow melt had started early
                          this
                          > year and there just wasn't enough of it where we camped. Hopefully
                          I'll
                          > be able to try that this year, earlier in the season!
                          >
                          > - Steve
                          >
                          > On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:13 AM, gwelker@c... wrote:
                          >
                          > > 50 F?  That sounds dissapointing.  I can get to that with my
                          winter
                          > > bag and
                          > > thermarest now.  It's the 50 down to 30 range I want to get into!
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Rick
                          I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier when I am
                          Message 12 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
                            I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
                            a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest easier
                            when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long winter
                            nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours of
                            sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

                            Rick

                            Jerry Goller wrote:

                            > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                            > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                            > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                            > long to spend them in a hammock....
                            > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                            > Jerry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                            > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                            > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                            > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                            > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                            >
                            > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a hammock
                            > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats the
                            > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
                            > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
                            >
                            > Coy Boy
                            >
                            >
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                          • Jerry Goller
                            Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation
                            Message 13 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
                              Message
                              Tom also envisioned there being a space blanket between the foam and the hammock for temps below 50 F. It would make the rig much warmer and stop condensation in the foam. He's trying to make an incremental insulation setup so as to be light as possible considering the individual's body metabolism and the conditions for any particular trip. He feels that ratings, other than ones you find out on your own about yourself and your preferred gear combos, probably don't mean all that much. It's just something each of you will have to play with and establish your own combination that works for you.
                              Jerry
                               
                               

                              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Rick [mailto:ra1@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 5:39 AM
                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)

                              I agree with Jerry here.  It is nice to know that I *can* sleep well in
                              a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind.  It lets me rest easier
                              when I am wondering what the weather is really up to.  But long winter
                              nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me.  After about 6 hours of
                              sleeping, I need to be doing something else.

                              Rick

                              Jerry Goller wrote:

                              > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want to
                              > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like an
                              > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                              > long to spend them in a hammock....
                              > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                              > Jerry


                              >
                              > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                              > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.
                              >

                              >
                              >     -----Original Message-----
                              >     *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                              >     *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                              >     *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              >     *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                              >
                              >     just to be contrary,  I think most people interested in a hammock
                              >     down to 50 will want to go year round.  But as you say thats the
                              >     beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt) you can
                              >     take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold weather.
                              >
                              >     Coy Boy
                              >
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                            • Steve
                              ...getting off topic.... Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we re also talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in january,
                              Message 14 of 25 , Sep 11, 2004
                                ...getting off topic....

                                Hi, Ralph. I also do some scout leader training....we're also
                                talking about taking our boys in the troop to shining rock in
                                january, and need to develop some training for the plc. would love
                                to see what you've developed. would you mind sharing?

                                If you'd like, you can email me off list...

                                Thanks!

                                Steve (I used to be a fox...)

                                ....back to topic!

                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@g...>
                                wrote:
                                > No snakes either, And usually no people.
                                >
                                > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                                > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
                                >
                                > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: jonas4321@j... <jonas4321@j...>
                                > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:48:17 -0400
                                > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                                > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                > The first night I ever spent outdoors in a hammock was 15 degrees. I
                                > have become a winter person ever since I took Okpik winter camping
                                > training as a Boy Scout leader. I love the no bugs and few people.
                                And
                                > the cold ground is no more comfortable than the warm one.
                                >
                                > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:14:52 -0600 "Jerry Goller"
                                > <jerrygoller@b...> writes:
                                >
                                > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't want
                                to
                                > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also like
                                an
                                > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are pretty
                                > long to spend them in a hammock....
                                > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                                > Jerry
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • David Chinell
                                Ralph: Well *I* sure would like a copy. dchinell@msn.com - if you don t post it to the list. Always interested in learning from others. Bear ... From: Ralph
                                Message 15 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
                                  Ralph:

                                  Well *I* sure would like a copy.

                                  dchinell@... - if you don't post it to the list.

                                  Always interested in learning from others.

                                  Bear



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@...]
                                  Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                                  No snakes either, And usually no people.

                                  Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                                  I developed it for our local University of Scouting.

                                  Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                                • Dick Matthews
                                  The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10. The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later. 13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
                                    The Hennessy Supershelter 4 Season System arrived Friday, September 10.  The OverCover is out of stock and will ship later.

                                    13.1 oz. for both the UnderCover and UnderPad.
                                    vs.
                                    25"X72"X3/8" closed cell pad 10.1 oz.

                                    I hike primarily in the Colorado Rockies above 10,000 feet.  Frost on the 4th of July is normal.  On Memorial Day weekend we had an overnight low of 15.  On Labor Day weekend I got about 4" of snow. 

                                    The set up video on the Hennessy site is very helpful and will reduce the initial setup time.  I enjoy experimenting with gear at home, but have a very low tolerance for gear with a high fiddle factor while hiking.  If this system needs to be broken down every morning and set up every night it is a deal breaker for me.  I will figure out a system for carrying it almost assembled or I will revert to the pad.  The assembled pad, undercover and hammock can be stuffed into the side mesh pocket of a Six Moon Designs Starlite pack.  The mesh pocket does not provide enough protection for the open cell pad - a silnylon stuff sack or switching with gear inside the pack when the weather is bad or while bushwacking may be necessary.  The Jacks ‘r’ Better Python Skins might be the better answer.

                                    Tom Hennessy recommends using a second UnderPad or additional insulation in the UnderCover for colder temperatures.  On future hikes I will experiment with a space blanket, a couple of Gossamer Gear ThinLight pads, and a PolarGuard Delta 2" loft quilt.

                                    The Campmor Ultralite Extension Poncho/Tarp has been a very good replacement fly for the hammock, but a rain jacket to wear around camp is needed.

                                    Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.

                                    I have been trimming the 72" closed cell pad by 6" each time and sleeping a few nights with the shortened pad to see how long a pad is necessary for comfort with an Nunatak Arc Alpinist.  The pad is currently at 60" and I think I will take another 6" off.

                                    I started with a Big Agnes Zirkle bag and a RidgeRest pad cut to mummy shape but now have converted to the Arc Alpinist with the 25" wide closed cell pad.  The quilt allows you to bend the knees a lot more and 20" wide pad was just not wide enough to prevent cold compression spots.

                                    This post is weak on trail testing, but there was so much curiosity about the system that even incomplete information may be interesting.  The shelter is out there being used and by Thanksgiving we all will know a lot more

                                    Dick Matthews


                                    SF Nazdarovye wrote:
                                    On Sep 10, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Coy wrote:
                                    
                                      
                                     Out
                                    in the Sierras it gets a lot colder than here in the southeast but
                                    the air is usually dryer.  I find the really cold nights (mid 20's)
                                    around here as comfortable as those 40 degeree nights when its rainy
                                    and damp cause whe it gets really cold around here it is usually
                                    when the air is the driest.
                                        
                                    Agreed - that's definitely a factor. So is wind, which hammocks seem 
                                    particularly susceptible to (that's why I wanted to try the slit trench 
                                    in winter).
                                    
                                    I do like the sound of the flexible system Hennessy has come up with - 
                                    sounds fairly flexible, and I look forward to trying it out at some 
                                    point.
                                    
                                    - Steve
                                    
                                    
                                    
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                                  • Ralph Oborn
                                    Good Idea David, I put my file under files/Ralph s stuff. I know it is a little off topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a year and
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
                                      Good Idea David,


                                      I put my file under files/Ralph's stuff. I know it is a little off
                                      topic, but around here it gets down to -20° F for a few nights a
                                      year and I just don't see a hammock working well at that temp (but
                                      must keep camping).
                                      Someone suggested we figure a way to hammock hang in an Igloo. I'm
                                      working on that. Needed: one big (long) igloo, and sturdy anchors or
                                      well placed trees....... Working on it.

                                      Ralph (Igloo hanger wannabee)



                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                      <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                      > Ralph:
                                      >
                                      > Well *I* sure would like a copy.
                                      >
                                      > dchinell@m... - if you don't post it to the list.
                                      >
                                      > Always interested in learning from others.
                                      >
                                      > Bear
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Ralph Oborn [mailto:Ralph.oborn@g...]
                                      > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 1:20 AM
                                      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No snakes either, And usually no people.
                                      >
                                      > Would you like my sheet I use to teach winter camping?
                                      > I developed it for our local University of Scouting.
                                      >
                                      > Ralph ( I used to be an Antelopee...)
                                    • Jerry Goller
                                      I ve also used 2 polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Sep 12, 2004
                                        Message
                                        I've also used 2" polypro webbing very successfully. It is very light and hydrophobic. I use an aluminum SMC descending ring http://tinyurl.com/6ov6h on each end to stop cutting and it makes it easier to do the figure 8 lashing. I have them in 6', 8', and 10'. I use a black one for the foot end and a green one for the head end. With skins on, it makes it easier to tell end from end.
                                        Jerry
                                         
                                         

                                        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Dick Matthews [mailto:dick@...]
                                        Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 1:36 PM
                                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)


                                        Longer Tree Huggers often are needed here in the Rockies.  A 7mm kernmantle rope about 3' long tied to the tree hugger loops with a sheet bend make very good extenders.  It seems the tree huggers still protect the tree as long as they go about 2/3 around the tree.


                                        Dick Matthews

                                      • Coy
                                        I ve stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more what you do on the AT)
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
                                          I've stayed in my hammock about 8 hours max, however in the winter i
                                          usually have a kampfire unless I am hiking all day (probably more
                                          what you do on the AT) so I may not turn in till late. I can read
                                          much easier in my hammock. In fact in a small tent I cant do much
                                          of nothing comfortably. In the winter i usually get up early and
                                          stike camp in the dark. whether I hike a while or fix breakfast
                                          depends on how cold it is. If it is really cold i will probably
                                          hike awhile (helps warm me up) till i find a good place to fix
                                          breakfast and by 8 or so it usually has warmed up quite a bit.
                                          Cours again the weather in Al is much warmer all around than you,
                                          Jerry or Steve deal with.

                                          Coy Boy

                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                                          > I agree with Jerry here. It is nice to know that I *can* sleep
                                          well in
                                          > a hammock in cold temperatures - snow - wind. It lets me rest
                                          easier
                                          > when I am wondering what the weather is really up to. But long
                                          winter
                                          > nights in a hammock get pretty boring to me. After about 6 hours
                                          of
                                          > sleeping, I need to be doing something else.
                                          >
                                          > Rick
                                          >
                                          > Jerry Goller wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Hard to tell. Other factors come into play. I personally don't
                                          want to
                                          > > want to tie my shelter to two snow laden trees....lol. I also
                                          like an
                                          > > enclosed shelter for melting snow and such. Winter nights are
                                          pretty
                                          > > long to spend them in a hammock....
                                          > > I strongly doubt I'd ever become a winter hammock user.
                                          > > Jerry
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > http://www.BackpackGearTest.org
                                          <http://www.backpackgeartest.org/> :
                                          > > the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the
                                          planet.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > *From:* Coy [mailto:starnescr@y...]
                                          > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2004 9:16 PM
                                          > > *To:* hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > *Subject:* [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter Kit (was Digest...)
                                          > >
                                          > > just to be contrary, I think most people interested in a
                                          hammock
                                          > > down to 50 will want to go year round. But as you say thats
                                          the
                                          > > beauty of using different inserts (whether foam or a quilt)
                                          you can
                                          > > take what you need for 50, then take more for really cold
                                          weather.
                                          > >
                                          > > Coy Boy
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
                                          > > ADVERTISEMENT
                                          > >
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                                        • David Chinell
                                          Ralph: Thanks. That was a fun read. I m an expatriate Canadian living in Florida now, so there s not as much opportunity for building snow trenches. My sister
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Sep 13, 2004
                                            Ralph:

                                            Thanks. That was a fun read. I'm an expatriate
                                            Canadian living in Florida now, so there's not as
                                            much opportunity for building snow trenches. My
                                            sister still lives in Canada though.... Hmmmmm.

                                            Bear
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