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RE: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

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  • Jerry Goller
    I ve been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or so. So far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell foam. Tom is
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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      I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or so. So far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell foam. Tom is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID Primaliner bag. I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
      Jerry
       
       

      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Shane Steinkamp [mailto:shane@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:01 PM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

      > Anyone buy one of th Hennessy cold weather systems and tried it yet?
      > Interested in hearing some field reports.
      > Greg Welker

      We'll be testing them directly on backpackgeartest.org.

      Shane

    • Mirage
      ... Almost, but then I thought to search the archives and appeased my fear of missing a cool test opportunity (speaking before thinking always I mmmmmm)... ;)
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
        <shane@t...> wrote:
        > > Shane was just rubbing a little fog off the glass. Glimpses are
        > > sometimes useful to everyone.
        >
        > Nuts. You blew it. We could have had him going...
        >

        Almost, but then I thought to search the archives and appeased my
        fear of missing a cool test opportunity (speaking before thinking
        always I mmmmmm)... ;)

        Shane "Mirage"...
      • jwj32542
        ... so. So ... foam. Tom ... Primaliner bag. ... I read that the underliner won t work with closed-cell foam. Why not? Just because of the shape? Jeff
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
          <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
          > I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or
          so. So
          > far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell
          foam. Tom
          > is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID
          Primaliner bag.
          > I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
          > Jerry

          I read that the underliner won't work with closed-cell foam. Why
          not? Just because of the shape?

          Jeff
        • Jerry Goller
          It s not the underliner, it s the closed cell foam. Closed cell foam forms ripples when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH underneath, just like is
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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            It's not the underliner, it's the closed cell foam. Closed cell foam forms "ripples" when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH underneath, just like is does when you use it inside the hammock. The silnylon isn't tight enough to force it to conform so you get cold channels down the sides. BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell foam.
            Jerry
             
             

            http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
            Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 9:06 AM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
            <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
            > I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or
            so. So
            > far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell
            foam. Tom
            > is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID
            Primaliner bag.
            > I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
            > Jerry

            I read that the underliner won't work with closed-cell foam.  Why
            not?  Just because of the shape?

            Jeff


          • jwj32542
            ... foam forms ... underneath, just ... isn t tight ... sides. BTW, ... closed cell ... That makes sense. I was thinking about carrying along closed-cell foam
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
              <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
              > It's not the underliner, it's the closed cell foam. Closed cell
              foam forms
              > "ripples" when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH
              underneath, just
              > like is does when you use it inside the hammock. The silnylon
              isn't tight
              > enough to force it to conform so you get cold channels down the
              sides. BTW,
              > open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than
              closed cell
              > foam.

              That makes sense. I was thinking about carrying along closed-cell
              foam for nights when I want to sleep in a shelter, but not if it
              won't also work with the underliner.

              Doesn't the open-cell come in 40" width? I guess I could fold it in
              half and lay on that if I had to.

              Any word on whether the underliner/pad is warmer than the down
              underquilts?

              Jeff
            • Jerry Goller
              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From:
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
                Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 5:40 PM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system


                Doesn't the open-cell come in 40" width?  I guess I could fold it in
                half and lay on that if I had to.
                Jerry Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1" thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be perfect. Tom will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key part of getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot of the pad that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.
                 

                Any word on whether the underliner/pad is warmer than the down
                underquilts?
                [Jerry Goller]  That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer than a down bag....   ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much loft on the down.

                Jerry 

                 
                • Shane Steinkamp
                  Message BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell ... It also absorbs water. Shane
                  Message 7 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                     >  BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell  
                    >  foam.  
                     
                    It also absorbs water.
                     
                    Shane
                  • Jerry Goller
                    That s why you re not supposed to take it swimming, silly...... ;o) It s under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is it supposed to get
                    Message 8 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                      That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming, silly......    ;o)
                      It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is it supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under the hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece of space blanket on top of the foam.
                       
                       

                      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Shane Steinkamp [mailto:shane@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 9:50 PM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                       >  BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell  
                      >  foam.  
                       
                      It also absorbs water.
                       
                      Shane

                    • Shane Steinkamp
                      ... Well, I don t expect it to get wet when it s in place, but packing and unpacking isn t going to always be in sun shiny weather. You ve been in the swamp.
                      Message 9 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                        > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                        > silly...... ;o)

                        > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover.
                        > How is it supposed to get wet? I've heard something about
                        > condensation under the hammock but I've never experienced
                        > it. I also tend to put a piece of space blanket on top of
                        > the foam.

                        Well, I don't expect it to get wet when it's in place, but packing and
                        unpacking isn't going to always be in sun shiny weather. You've been in the
                        swamp. Is there ANY piece of your gear that you always kept dry? It all
                        gets wet at some point.

                        Maybe I'm just sloppy...

                        Shane
                      • Dave Womble
                        ... silly...... ;o) ... it ... the ... of space ... Jerry, This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it figured out right. Insensible
                        Message 10 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                          <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                          > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                          silly...... ;o)
                          > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is
                          it
                          > supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under
                          the
                          > hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece
                          of space
                          > blanket on top of the foam.
                          >

                          Jerry,

                          This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it
                          figured out right.

                          Insensible perspiration tends to condense somewhere beneath you when
                          the vapor associated with insensible perspiration is stopped by a
                          vapor-proof barrier. (Have you ever slept directly on a closed cell
                          foam pad and had whatever material that was in contact with the pad
                          wet or damp in the morning?) However, if you have a wicking material
                          on top of the vapor-proof barrier it might manage the moisture well
                          enough so that moisture build up is not an issue. I believe this
                          would be the case with Shane's Ultimate Pad since it is wrapped with
                          fabric that wicks and manages moisture buildup. This is also the
                          case with my two-layer hammock that has a layer of wicking fabric on
                          top of closed cell foam pads.

                          In your case with the space blanket acting as a vapor barrier on top
                          of the open cell foam, the moisture tends to collect there and the
                          bed of the hammock in contact with the space blanket wicks out and
                          manages the moisture. Without the space blanket I would suspect the
                          moisture associated with insensible perspiration would condense on
                          the inside of the silnylon lower cover and that the open cell foam
                          might soak up some of it. I wouldn't think that in most cases the
                          moisture buildup would be severe enough to require you to have to do
                          anything more that wring-out the open cell foam pad in the morning.
                          However, if you feel like the humidity is excessive and
                          uncomfortable, then maybe you need to rethink how your system is
                          handling insensible perspiration and make a change or two.

                          Youngblood
                        • jwj32542
                          ... Goller] So far, I ve only been able to find 24 in either 1/2 or 1 ... perfect. Tom ... part of ... of the pad ... Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40
                          Message 11 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller" > Jerry
                            Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1"
                            > thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be
                            perfect. Tom
                            > will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key
                            part of
                            > getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot
                            of the pad
                            > that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.

                            Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40" somewhere.

                            > [Jerry Goller] That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer
                            than a down
                            > bag.... ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much
                            loft on the
                            > down.

                            True...I guess I should have said for a comparable weight/bulk. For
                            example, the underquilt at JacksRBetter is 20oz, and this setup is
                            13+oz. I see now that Tom's ratings are ~50*...didn't know that
                            when I wrote the last message. How cold have people gotten in an
                            underquilt similar to Jack's?

                            Jeff
                          • Jerry Goller
                            That could certainly be. I ve lived in Utah for as long as I ve been using hammocks. Moisture buildup just isn t that big of a problem here..... ;o) Jerry
                            Message 12 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                              That could certainly be. I've lived in Utah for as long as I've been using hammocks. Moisture buildup just isn't that big of a problem here.....   ;o)
                              Jerry
                               
                               

                              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Dave Womble [mailto:dpwomble@...]
                              Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:41 AM
                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                              <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                              > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                              silly......    ;o)
                              > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is
                              it
                              > supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under
                              the
                              > hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece
                              of space
                              > blanket on top of the foam.


                              Jerry,

                              This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it
                              figured out right. 

                              Insensible perspiration tends to condense somewhere beneath you when
                              the vapor associated with insensible perspiration is stopped by a
                              vapor-proof barrier. (Have you ever slept directly on a closed cell
                              foam pad and had whatever material that was in contact with the pad
                              wet or damp in the morning?) However, if you have a wicking material
                              on top of the vapor-proof barrier it might manage the moisture well
                              enough so that moisture build up is not an issue.  I believe this
                              would be the case with Shane's Ultimate Pad since it is wrapped with
                              fabric that wicks and manages moisture buildup.  This is also the
                              case with my two-layer hammock that has a layer of wicking fabric on
                              top of closed cell foam pads.

                              In your case with the space blanket acting as a vapor barrier on top
                              of the open cell foam, the moisture tends to collect there and the
                              bed of the hammock in contact with the space blanket wicks out and
                              manages the moisture.  Without the space blanket I would suspect the
                              moisture associated with insensible perspiration would condense on
                              the inside of the silnylon lower cover and that the open cell foam
                              might soak up some of it.  I wouldn't think that in most cases the
                              moisture buildup would be severe enough to require you to have to do
                              anything more that wring-out the open cell foam pad in the morning. 
                              However, if you feel like the humidity is excessive and
                              uncomfortable, then maybe you need to rethink how your system is
                              handling insensible perspiration and make a change or two.

                              Youngblood


                            • Jerry Goller
                              Tom s current foam pad is 3/8 open cell.. I ve used that, with a space blanket, down to 45 F with no problems. It may go lower. He s now got some egg create
                              Message 13 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                                Tom's current foam pad is 3/8" open cell.. I've used that, with a space blanket, down to 45 F with no problems. It may go lower. He's now got some egg create foam he is going to make some out of that will be both wider and thicker. We'll see how that does. It may well go as cold as I normally take a hammock, 30 F. 40 F is a "normal" summer night in the mountains.
                                I'm not sure how the weight ratio will turn out. You need so much less insulation on the bottom that it may end up *too* thin for down. I would certainly expect even 1" open cell foam to weigh well under 16 oz. I doubt you'll get a down quilt to weigh less than that. Tom's current stock pad weighs just under 6 oz.
                                Jerry
                                 
                                 

                                http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
                                Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:05 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller" > Jerry
                                Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1"
                                > thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be
                                perfect. Tom
                                > will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key
                                part of
                                > getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot
                                of the pad
                                > that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.

                                Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40" somewhere.

                                > [Jerry Goller]  That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer
                                than a down
                                > bag....   ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much
                                loft on the
                                > down.

                                True...I guess I should have said for a comparable weight/bulk.  For
                                example, the underquilt at JacksRBetter is 20oz, and this setup is
                                13+oz.  I see now that Tom's ratings are ~50*...didn't know that
                                when I wrote the last message.  How cold have people gotten in an
                                underquilt similar to Jack's? 

                                Jeff


                              • Lenny Nichols
                                ... I was cold using Jack s system in my HH at about 40 degrees in August (in Colorado). In September I was comfortable at 29 degrees, using Jack s underquilt
                                Message 14 of 22 , Sep 27, 2004
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                                  > How cold have people gotten in an
                                  > underquilt similar to Jack's?  


                                  I was cold using Jack's system in my HH at about 40 degrees in August (in Colorado). In September I was comfortable at 29 degrees, using Jack's underquilt + a K-Mart blue pad. I also switched Jack's "over" quilt with my Western Mountaineering bag as a quilt.

                                  Lenny Nichols
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