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Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

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  • Mirage
    ... Dang... I m still a newbie till my MSR pole test is done in Dec.... Unless my Micropur tablet test will qualify me to no longer be a newbie (please, oh
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 8, 2004
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...> wrote:
      > > Anyone buy one of th Hennessy cold weather systems and tried it yet?
      > > Interested in hearing some field reports.
      > > Greg Welker
      >
      > We'll be testing them directly on backpackgeartest.org.
      >
      > Shane

      Dang... I'm still a "newbie" till my MSR pole test is done in Dec.... Unless my Micropur
      tablet test will qualify me to no longer be a "newbie" (please, oh please, oh please...)?

      Shane "Mirage"...
    • Shane Steinkamp
      ... You can t win if you don t apply... ;) Shane
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 8, 2004
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        > Dang... I'm still a "newbie" till my MSR pole test is done in
        > Dec.... Unless my Micropur
        > tablet test will qualify me to no longer be a "newbie" (please,
        > oh please, oh please...)?

        You can't win if you don't apply... ;)

        Shane
      • Mirage
        ... I ve been OOP, did I miss a test call for these? %^0 Shane Mirage ...
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
          <shane@t...> wrote:
          > > Dang... I'm still a "newbie" till my MSR pole test is done in
          > > Dec.... Unless my Micropur
          > > tablet test will qualify me to no longer be a "newbie" (please,
          > > oh please, oh please...)?
          >
          > You can't win if you don't apply... ;)
          >
          > Shane

          I've been OOP, did I miss a test call for these? %^0

          Shane "Mirage"...
        • ra1@imrisk.com
          ... No, Shane was just rubbing a little fog off the glass. Glimpses are sometimes useful to everyone. Rick
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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            Quoting Mirage <mirage@...>:

            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
            > <shane@t...> wrote:
            > > > Dang... I'm still a "newbie" till my MSR pole test is done in
            > > > Dec.... Unless my Micropur
            > > > tablet test will qualify me to no longer be a "newbie" (please,
            > > > oh please, oh please...)?
            > >
            > > You can't win if you don't apply... ;)
            > >
            > > Shane
            >
            > I've been OOP, did I miss a test call for these? %^0
            >
            > Shane "Mirage"...
            >
            No,

            Shane was just rubbing a little fog off the glass. Glimpses are sometimes
            useful to everyone.

            Rick
          • Shane Steinkamp
            ... Nuts. You blew it. We could have had him going... Shane
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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              > Shane was just rubbing a little fog off the glass. Glimpses are
              > sometimes useful to everyone.

              Nuts. You blew it. We could have had him going...

              Shane
            • Jerry Goller
              I ve been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or so. So far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell foam. Tom is
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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                Message
                I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or so. So far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell foam. Tom is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID Primaliner bag. I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
                Jerry
                 
                 

                http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Shane Steinkamp [mailto:shane@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:01 PM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                > Anyone buy one of th Hennessy cold weather systems and tried it yet?
                > Interested in hearing some field reports.
                > Greg Welker

                We'll be testing them directly on backpackgeartest.org.

                Shane

              • Mirage
                ... Almost, but then I thought to search the archives and appeased my fear of missing a cool test opportunity (speaking before thinking always I mmmmmm)... ;)
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 9, 2004
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp"
                  <shane@t...> wrote:
                  > > Shane was just rubbing a little fog off the glass. Glimpses are
                  > > sometimes useful to everyone.
                  >
                  > Nuts. You blew it. We could have had him going...
                  >

                  Almost, but then I thought to search the archives and appeased my
                  fear of missing a cool test opportunity (speaking before thinking
                  always I mmmmmm)... ;)

                  Shane "Mirage"...
                • jwj32542
                  ... so. So ... foam. Tom ... Primaliner bag. ... I read that the underliner won t work with closed-cell foam. Why not? Just because of the shape? Jeff
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                    <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                    > I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or
                    so. So
                    > far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell
                    foam. Tom
                    > is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID
                    Primaliner bag.
                    > I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
                    > Jerry

                    I read that the underliner won't work with closed-cell foam. Why
                    not? Just because of the shape?

                    Jeff
                  • Jerry Goller
                    It s not the underliner, it s the closed cell foam. Closed cell foam forms ripples when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH underneath, just like is
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                      Message
                      It's not the underliner, it's the closed cell foam. Closed cell foam forms "ripples" when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH underneath, just like is does when you use it inside the hammock. The silnylon isn't tight enough to force it to conform so you get cold channels down the sides. BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell foam.
                      Jerry
                       
                       

                      http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 9:06 AM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                      <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                      > I've been involved with the pre-production testing for 6 months or
                      so. So
                      > far, it seems to work very well down to 50 F or so with open cell
                      foam. Tom
                      > is working on an under quilt for it. I made one out of an ID
                      Primaliner bag.
                      > I haven't hand a chance to test it yet, though.
                      > Jerry

                      I read that the underliner won't work with closed-cell foam.  Why
                      not?  Just because of the shape?

                      Jeff


                    • jwj32542
                      ... foam forms ... underneath, just ... isn t tight ... sides. BTW, ... closed cell ... That makes sense. I was thinking about carrying along closed-cell foam
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                        <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                        > It's not the underliner, it's the closed cell foam. Closed cell
                        foam forms
                        > "ripples" when it tries to conform to the shape of a HH
                        underneath, just
                        > like is does when you use it inside the hammock. The silnylon
                        isn't tight
                        > enough to force it to conform so you get cold channels down the
                        sides. BTW,
                        > open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than
                        closed cell
                        > foam.

                        That makes sense. I was thinking about carrying along closed-cell
                        foam for nights when I want to sleep in a shelter, but not if it
                        won't also work with the underliner.

                        Doesn't the open-cell come in 40" width? I guess I could fold it in
                        half and lay on that if I had to.

                        Any word on whether the underliner/pad is warmer than the down
                        underquilts?

                        Jeff
                      • Jerry Goller
                        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet. ... From:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                          Message
                           
                           
                           

                          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 5:40 PM
                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system


                          Doesn't the open-cell come in 40" width?  I guess I could fold it in
                          half and lay on that if I had to.
                          Jerry Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1" thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be perfect. Tom will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key part of getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot of the pad that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.
                           

                          Any word on whether the underliner/pad is warmer than the down
                          underquilts?
                          [Jerry Goller]  That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer than a down bag....   ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much loft on the down.

                          Jerry 

                           
                          • Shane Steinkamp
                            Message BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell ... It also absorbs water. Shane
                            Message 12 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                              Message
                               >  BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell  
                              >  foam.  
                               
                              It also absorbs water.
                               
                              Shane
                            • Jerry Goller
                              That s why you re not supposed to take it swimming, silly...... ;o) It s under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is it supposed to get
                              Message 13 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                                Message
                                That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming, silly......    ;o)
                                It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is it supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under the hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece of space blanket on top of the foam.
                                 
                                 

                                http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Shane Steinkamp [mailto:shane@...]
                                Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 9:50 PM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                                 >  BTW, open cell is lighter, compresses better, and is cheaper than closed cell  
                                >  foam.  
                                 
                                It also absorbs water.
                                 
                                Shane

                              • Shane Steinkamp
                                ... Well, I don t expect it to get wet when it s in place, but packing and unpacking isn t going to always be in sun shiny weather. You ve been in the swamp.
                                Message 14 of 22 , Sep 25, 2004
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                                  > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                                  > silly...... ;o)

                                  > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover.
                                  > How is it supposed to get wet? I've heard something about
                                  > condensation under the hammock but I've never experienced
                                  > it. I also tend to put a piece of space blanket on top of
                                  > the foam.

                                  Well, I don't expect it to get wet when it's in place, but packing and
                                  unpacking isn't going to always be in sun shiny weather. You've been in the
                                  swamp. Is there ANY piece of your gear that you always kept dry? It all
                                  gets wet at some point.

                                  Maybe I'm just sloppy...

                                  Shane
                                • Dave Womble
                                  ... silly...... ;o) ... it ... the ... of space ... Jerry, This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it figured out right. Insensible
                                  Message 15 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                    <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                    > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                                    silly...... ;o)
                                    > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is
                                    it
                                    > supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under
                                    the
                                    > hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece
                                    of space
                                    > blanket on top of the foam.
                                    >

                                    Jerry,

                                    This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it
                                    figured out right.

                                    Insensible perspiration tends to condense somewhere beneath you when
                                    the vapor associated with insensible perspiration is stopped by a
                                    vapor-proof barrier. (Have you ever slept directly on a closed cell
                                    foam pad and had whatever material that was in contact with the pad
                                    wet or damp in the morning?) However, if you have a wicking material
                                    on top of the vapor-proof barrier it might manage the moisture well
                                    enough so that moisture build up is not an issue. I believe this
                                    would be the case with Shane's Ultimate Pad since it is wrapped with
                                    fabric that wicks and manages moisture buildup. This is also the
                                    case with my two-layer hammock that has a layer of wicking fabric on
                                    top of closed cell foam pads.

                                    In your case with the space blanket acting as a vapor barrier on top
                                    of the open cell foam, the moisture tends to collect there and the
                                    bed of the hammock in contact with the space blanket wicks out and
                                    manages the moisture. Without the space blanket I would suspect the
                                    moisture associated with insensible perspiration would condense on
                                    the inside of the silnylon lower cover and that the open cell foam
                                    might soak up some of it. I wouldn't think that in most cases the
                                    moisture buildup would be severe enough to require you to have to do
                                    anything more that wring-out the open cell foam pad in the morning.
                                    However, if you feel like the humidity is excessive and
                                    uncomfortable, then maybe you need to rethink how your system is
                                    handling insensible perspiration and make a change or two.

                                    Youngblood
                                  • jwj32542
                                    ... Goller] So far, I ve only been able to find 24 in either 1/2 or 1 ... perfect. Tom ... part of ... of the pad ... Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40
                                    Message 16 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller" > Jerry
                                      Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1"
                                      > thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be
                                      perfect. Tom
                                      > will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key
                                      part of
                                      > getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot
                                      of the pad
                                      > that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.

                                      Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40" somewhere.

                                      > [Jerry Goller] That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer
                                      than a down
                                      > bag.... ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much
                                      loft on the
                                      > down.

                                      True...I guess I should have said for a comparable weight/bulk. For
                                      example, the underquilt at JacksRBetter is 20oz, and this setup is
                                      13+oz. I see now that Tom's ratings are ~50*...didn't know that
                                      when I wrote the last message. How cold have people gotten in an
                                      underquilt similar to Jack's?

                                      Jeff
                                    • Jerry Goller
                                      That could certainly be. I ve lived in Utah for as long as I ve been using hammocks. Moisture buildup just isn t that big of a problem here..... ;o) Jerry
                                      Message 17 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                                        Message
                                        That could certainly be. I've lived in Utah for as long as I've been using hammocks. Moisture buildup just isn't that big of a problem here.....   ;o)
                                        Jerry
                                         
                                         

                                        http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Dave Womble [mailto:dpwomble@...]
                                        Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:41 AM
                                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                        <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                        > That's why you're not supposed to take it swimming,
                                        silly......    ;o)
                                        > It's under the hammock and inside the silnylon lower cover. How is
                                        it
                                        > supposed to get wet? I've heard something about condensation under
                                        the
                                        > hammock but I've never experienced it. I also tend to put a piece
                                        of space
                                        > blanket on top of the foam.


                                        Jerry,

                                        This is what I think happens, but as usual, I might not have it
                                        figured out right. 

                                        Insensible perspiration tends to condense somewhere beneath you when
                                        the vapor associated with insensible perspiration is stopped by a
                                        vapor-proof barrier. (Have you ever slept directly on a closed cell
                                        foam pad and had whatever material that was in contact with the pad
                                        wet or damp in the morning?) However, if you have a wicking material
                                        on top of the vapor-proof barrier it might manage the moisture well
                                        enough so that moisture build up is not an issue.  I believe this
                                        would be the case with Shane's Ultimate Pad since it is wrapped with
                                        fabric that wicks and manages moisture buildup.  This is also the
                                        case with my two-layer hammock that has a layer of wicking fabric on
                                        top of closed cell foam pads.

                                        In your case with the space blanket acting as a vapor barrier on top
                                        of the open cell foam, the moisture tends to collect there and the
                                        bed of the hammock in contact with the space blanket wicks out and
                                        manages the moisture.  Without the space blanket I would suspect the
                                        moisture associated with insensible perspiration would condense on
                                        the inside of the silnylon lower cover and that the open cell foam
                                        might soak up some of it.  I wouldn't think that in most cases the
                                        moisture buildup would be severe enough to require you to have to do
                                        anything more that wring-out the open cell foam pad in the morning. 
                                        However, if you feel like the humidity is excessive and
                                        uncomfortable, then maybe you need to rethink how your system is
                                        handling insensible perspiration and make a change or two.

                                        Youngblood


                                      • Jerry Goller
                                        Tom s current foam pad is 3/8 open cell.. I ve used that, with a space blanket, down to 45 F with no problems. It may go lower. He s now got some egg create
                                        Message 18 of 22 , Sep 26, 2004
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                                          Message
                                          Tom's current foam pad is 3/8" open cell.. I've used that, with a space blanket, down to 45 F with no problems. It may go lower. He's now got some egg create foam he is going to make some out of that will be both wider and thicker. We'll see how that does. It may well go as cold as I normally take a hammock, 30 F. 40 F is a "normal" summer night in the mountains.
                                          I'm not sure how the weight ratio will turn out. You need so much less insulation on the bottom that it may end up *too* thin for down. I would certainly expect even 1" open cell foam to weigh well under 16 oz. I doubt you'll get a down quilt to weigh less than that. Tom's current stock pad weighs just under 6 oz.
                                          Jerry
                                           
                                           

                                          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: jwj32542 [mailto:jwj32542@...]
                                          Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 9:05 AM
                                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Hennessy cold weather system

                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller" > Jerry
                                          Goller] So far, I've only been able to find 24" in either 1/2" or 1"
                                          > thick open cell. For me, somewhere between 32" and 36" would be
                                          perfect. Tom
                                          > will be selling a set up like this made for the hammock. A key
                                          part of
                                          > getting it to fit right is the elastic cords at the head and foot
                                          of the pad
                                          > that force it to assume a boat shape, therefore hugging your body.

                                          Hrm...I was thinking I saw 40" somewhere.

                                          > [Jerry Goller]  That's like asking if a synthetic bag is warmer
                                          than a down
                                          > bag....   ;o) It depends on how thick the foam versus how much
                                          loft on the
                                          > down.

                                          True...I guess I should have said for a comparable weight/bulk.  For
                                          example, the underquilt at JacksRBetter is 20oz, and this setup is
                                          13+oz.  I see now that Tom's ratings are ~50*...didn't know that
                                          when I wrote the last message.  How cold have people gotten in an
                                          underquilt similar to Jack's? 

                                          Jeff


                                        • Lenny Nichols
                                          ... I was cold using Jack s system in my HH at about 40 degrees in August (in Colorado). In September I was comfortable at 29 degrees, using Jack s underquilt
                                          Message 19 of 22 , Sep 27, 2004
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                                            > How cold have people gotten in an
                                            > underquilt similar to Jack's?  


                                            I was cold using Jack's system in my HH at about 40 degrees in August (in Colorado). In September I was comfortable at 29 degrees, using Jack's underquilt + a K-Mart blue pad. I also switched Jack's "over" quilt with my Western Mountaineering bag as a quilt.

                                            Lenny Nichols
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