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BUG PROTECTION

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  • BRIAN
    Hello all: I ve been lurking here for some time and now I need an opinion(s) on the subject of mosquitos. I live in Tampa, Fl. and have found my HH Expedition
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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      Hello all:

      I've been lurking here for some time and now I need an opinion(s) on
      the subject of mosquitos. I live in Tampa, Fl. and have found my HH
      Expedition Asym to be the coolest alternative when camping in the
      summer heat. The problem I'm having is that the mosquitos also
      enjoy my summertime setup and suck blood from me through the hammock
      bottom. How can I stop them without putting another layer under me
      which would make me even hotter? Does perethrin kill them on
      contact or would they still have a chance to bite before they die?
      I thought about some netting suspended just below the hammock but I
      thought I would ask here first. Any help is welcome. Thanks.

      Brian
    • ra1@imrisk.com
      ... Brian, First, stay away from DEET on nylon fabrics. The two are not a good combination, as the DEET weakens the fabric. This is not a problem with
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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        Quoting BRIAN <opnheartscrub@...>:

        > Hello all:
        >
        > I've been lurking here for some time and now I need an opinion(s) on
        > the subject of mosquitos. I live in Tampa, Fl. and have found my HH
        > Expedition Asym to be the coolest alternative when camping in the
        > summer heat. The problem I'm having is that the mosquitos also
        > enjoy my summertime setup and suck blood from me through the hammock
        > bottom. How can I stop them without putting another layer under me
        > which would make me even hotter? Does perethrin kill them on
        > contact or would they still have a chance to bite before they die?
        > I thought about some netting suspended just below the hammock but I
        > thought I would ask here first. Any help is welcome. Thanks.
        >
        > Brian
        >
        Brian,

        First, stay away from DEET on nylon fabrics. The two are not a good
        combination, as the DEET weakens the fabric.

        This is not a problem with pyrethrin. And the good news is that the material is
        repellant to the bug before it even touches the material. I have had good
        results with clothing and also with hammocks treated with pyrethrin.

        I understand that pyrethrin on the skin is inactivated rather quickly - one
        reason it is not used as an insect repellant. I have never worked out how much
        the pyrethrin is inactivated by sweat from skin when the hammock is the only
        thing between me and the bug.

        I have only occasionally used a hammock in a mosquitoe area without a pad.
        Those few times (and my hammock was treated with pyrethrin) the mosquitoes did
        not give me a problem.

        Tom Hennessy, in the past, has maintained that his hammock material can not be
        penetrated by mosquitoes. This has not been my experience with single layer
        ripstop nylon hammocks in general.

        I look forward to your experiments and reporting your results. Many of us would
        like to know these answers from a more than anecdotal background.

        Risk
      • Mark Bayern
        ... I can report first hand, that the mosquitoes in Big Thicket National Preserve (Eastern Texas) could not penetrate m HH Ultra Asym, or my son s HH Scout.
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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          >Tom Hennessy, in the past, has maintained that his hammock material can not be
          >penetrated by mosquitoes. This has not been my experience with single layer
          >ripstop nylon hammocks in general.
          >
          >I look forward to your experiments and reporting your results. Many of us would
          >like to know these answers from a more than anecdotal background.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          I can report first hand, that the mosquitoes in Big Thicket National
          Preserve (Eastern Texas) could not penetrate m HH Ultra Asym, or my
          son's HH Scout. This was our first time with the hammocks (hence the
          local test), during late summer. Lots of mosquitoes -- no pads, no
          bites. It was a little odd for me hearing those mosquitoes nearby -- had
          to keep reminding myself they were 'outside'.

          Mark
        • jonas4321@juno.com
          Risk- ... with ... Does this mean that a double-bottom ripstop hammock is impervious to mosquitos? J
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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            Risk-

            Your statement:

            > Tom Hennessy, in the past, has maintained that his hammock material
            > can not be penetrated by mosquitos. This has not been my experience
            with
            > single layer ripstop nylon hammocks in general.

            Does this mean that a double-bottom ripstop hammock is impervious to
            mosquitos?

            J

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          • ra1@imrisk.com
            ... I have not used any of my double bottom hammocks without a pad. I do not use a pad under my lower legs, but my quilt goes all the way around my legs below
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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              Quoting jonas4321@...:

              > Risk-
              >
              > Your statement:
              >
              > > Tom Hennessy, in the past, has maintained that his hammock material
              > > can not be penetrated by mosquitos. This has not been my experience
              > with
              > > single layer ripstop nylon hammocks in general.
              >
              > Does this mean that a double-bottom ripstop hammock is impervious to
              > mosquitos?
              >
              > J
              >
              I have not used any of my double bottom hammocks without a pad. I do not use a
              pad under my lower legs, but my quilt goes all the way around my legs below my
              knees. The time I slept all night without a pad was in a single layer 1.9 oz
              ripstop hammock, I did get a couple bites on my back, I believe through the
              fabric. I was bare backed against the single layer of fabric on that occasion.

              I do not know if wearing a shirt or using a double bottom hammock would decrease
              the number of successful mosquitoes. I do know that using permethrin on the
              hammock and the bugnetting helps to chase the fellers away before they settle
              down for dinner.

              Risk
            • David Chinell
              My experience is that the Expedition model uses a coarser weave that mosquitos can penetrate. Other models, such as the Ultralight Backpacker use a finer weave
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 2, 2004
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                My experience is that the Expedition model uses a coarser weave that
                mosquitos can penetrate. Other models, such as the Ultralight Backpacker use
                a finer weave that can't be bitten through. It's not intentional, it's just
                the nature of the different types of nylon material used.

                I've also treated the bottom of my Expedition with permethrin, and it works
                well to prevent them biting.

                Bear
              • BRIAN
                ... Thanks for all the replies. I bought a can of pyrethrin last night and I will spray the hammock today. I might try and sleep in it tonight if I feel like
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>

                  Thanks for all the replies. I bought a can of pyrethrin last night
                  and I will spray the hammock today. I might try and sleep in it
                  tonight if I feel like it (I just had major back surgery on the 21st
                  of last month). I know as you've said, the bottoms are supposed to
                  be mosquito-proof but the weave of my asym is open enough that I can
                  see through it when I am inside. If this works for me I will
                  purchase a larger bottle from the insecticide aisle and delute it
                  down to the correct solution for retreating as needed.

                  Brian
                • Ray Garlington
                  ... can ... One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with a little sag.)
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>
                    wrote:
                    > the bottoms are supposed to
                    > be mosquito-proof but the weave of my asym is open enough that I
                    can
                    > see through it when I am inside.


                    One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a
                    length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with a
                    little sag.) your attachment points could be the 4 corners of the
                    hammock. Just cut a slit to match the entry.
                  • zippydooda
                    Hey, I think the spray you want would be permethrin, not pyrethrin. Permethrin is the one recommended by the WHO to keep bugs off of people. Pyrethrin is used
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                      Hey, I think the spray you want would be permethrin, not pyrethrin.
                      Permethrin is the one recommended by the WHO to keep bugs off of
                      people. Pyrethrin is used for killing fleas on pets.

                      I like the bug net idea better but it might be tough to come up with
                      a solution for the entry hole. If you just made overlapping flaps
                      that would close up after you got it, that would probably work fine.

                      Good luck.

                      Bill in Houston

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hello all:
                      >
                      > I've been lurking here for some time and now I need an opinion(s)
                      on
                      > the subject of mosquitos. I live in Tampa, Fl. and have found my
                      HH
                      > Expedition Asym to be the coolest alternative when camping in the
                      > summer heat. The problem I'm having is that the mosquitos also
                      > enjoy my summertime setup and suck blood from me through the
                      hammock
                      > bottom. How can I stop them without putting another layer under me
                      > which would make me even hotter? Does perethrin kill them on
                      > contact or would they still have a chance to bite before they die?
                      > I thought about some netting suspended just below the hammock but I
                      > thought I would ask here first. Any help is welcome. Thanks.
                      >
                      > Brian
                    • neptuneuu
                      I m increasingly confused by the Permethrin discussion. somewhere on the web, I had seen a site, us.mil domain I think, that indicated that Permethrin used on
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 3, 2004
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                        I'm increasingly confused by the Permethrin discussion. somewhere
                        on the web, I had seen a site, us.mil domain I think, that indicated
                        that Permethrin used on clothing must be of the type specifically
                        designed for that use, so that the carrier substance was compatible
                        to sticking the active ingredient on to fibers, and that the type
                        intended for agricultural use would do little good on clothing, just
                        wash away. If there are any technical experts out there, please
                        help dispell this fog. I've heard from ex-mil friends that they
                        used to use kits of liquid Permethrin with a large plastic bag to
                        soak a set of clothing in, then removed and let dry after a good
                        soak. The web site I saw (now lost, unfortunately) indicated that
                        mil was now using an industrial scale large batch treatment method,
                        partially to avoid soldier exposure to the liquid permethrin.

                        does anyone know:
                        1. are all permethrin solutions equal when using on clothing?
                        2. what level of concentration should be used (Sawyer and other
                        consumer products seem to use 0.5% solution, yard-intended
                        treatments from Ortho is 2.5%)?
                        3. Is there a cost-saving source of clothing compatible permethrin?
                        I have a family-sized set of clothes to treatplus tents, hammocks,
                        etc, so I hate to pay $7-8 per set of clothes or equivalent. I'd
                        easily spend $100 treating evverything I'd like to.

                        Thanks in advance for the expertise

                        Rick in FL
                      • BRIAN
                        ... material can not be ... single layer ... On HH s website, under the mosquito/jungle section, I found that they reccomend that you do not sleep bare skined
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 4, 2004
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                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Mark Bayern <mark@m...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >Tom Hennessy, in the past, has maintained that his hammock
                          material can not be
                          > >penetrated by mosquitoes. This has not been my experience with
                          single layer
                          > >ripstop nylon hammocks in general.
                          > >
                          On HH's website, under the mosquito/jungle section, I found that
                          they reccomend that you do not sleep bare skined against the hammock
                          material and should at least wear clothes. I have tried Shane's
                          suggestion from his web site and used a neetsheet under me. That
                          makes it a little warm, but tolerable. The double wide one can be
                          placed under me and still be used as a blanket. This is certainly
                          enough for the temps where I live during the summer and fall months.
                          Perhaps this is the easiest long term solution.

                          Brian
                        • BRIAN
                          ... I ve attached a no-seeum netting to the bottom of my HH. What a project! I never realized that the geometry of something like this could be so complex.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 11, 2004
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                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                            <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                            > One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a
                            > length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with a
                            > little sag.) your attachment points could be the 4 corners of the
                            > hammock. Just cut a slit to match the entry.

                            I've attached a no-seeum netting to the bottom of my HH. What a
                            project! I never realized that the geometry of something like this
                            could be so complex. I'm going to try it tonite for the second
                            time. The first time I had to make a run for the house because part
                            of the net was touching the hammock and I was being eaten alive.
                            After some adjustments I think it's ready for another test. Tonite
                            will be my last chance for awhile since we seem to have a hurricane
                            heading toward Florida. If it works I will post some pics in the
                            next few days.
                            Thanks again for all the ideas.
                          • BRIAN
                            ... a ... the ... If it works I will post some pics in the ... I ve finally uploaded some pics in the folder Brian from Tampa (HH mods) . I still need to
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 27, 2004
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                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>
                              wrote:
                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                              > <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                              > > One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a
                              > > length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with
                              a
                              > > little sag.) your attachment points could be the 4 corners of
                              the
                              > > hammock. Just cut a slit to match the entry.
                              >
                              If it works I will post some pics in the
                              > next few days.
                              > Thanks again for all the ideas.

                              I've finally uploaded some pics in the folder "Brian from Tampa (HH
                              mods)". I still need to label them and provide an explanation for
                              each one. I'll work on that tomorrow. The netting seems to work
                              well as does the fly. Thanks for the ideas.

                              Brian
                            • Jerry Goller
                              Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a silnylon bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the hammock. It not only
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 29, 2004
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                                Message
                                Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a silnylon bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the hammock. It not only cuts the wind, it stops mosquitoes too.
                                Jerry
                                 
                                 

                                http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
                                Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:28 PM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>
                                wrote:
                                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                                > <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                                > > One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a
                                > > length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with
                                a
                                > > little sag.)  your attachment points could be the 4 corners of
                                the
                                > > hammock.  Just cut a slit to match the entry.
                                >
                                  If it works I will post some pics in the
                                > next few days.
                                > Thanks again for all the ideas.

                                I've finally uploaded some pics in the folder "Brian from Tampa (HH
                                mods)".  I still need to label them and provide an explanation for
                                each one.  I'll work on that tomorrow.  The netting seems to work
                                well as does the fly.  Thanks for the ideas.

                                Brian


                              • BRIAN
                                ... silnylon ... hammock. It ... Thanks but the windstopping ability is what I m trying to get away from. With the bottom netting, the slightest breeze is very
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                  <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                  > Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a
                                  silnylon
                                  > bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the
                                  hammock. It
                                  > not only cuts the wind, it stops mosquitoes too.
                                  > Jerry


                                  Thanks but the windstopping ability is what I'm trying to get away
                                  from. With the bottom netting, the slightest breeze is very cooling.
                                  On the other hand, this is certainly something I will look at during
                                  the cooler months when the mosquitos are still out and about.

                                  Brian
                                • Jerry Goller
                                  Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the mountains and heat at night isn t all that much of a problem... ;o) Have you tried soaking
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                    Message
                                    Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a problem... ;o) Have you tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried it for my hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with very good results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product names is Yard Guard.
                                    Jerry
                                     
                                     

                                    http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                     

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
                                    Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:17 AM
                                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                    <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                    > Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a
                                    silnylon
                                    > bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the
                                    hammock. It
                                    > not only cuts the wind, it stops mosquitoes too.
                                    > Jerry


                                    Thanks but the windstopping ability is what I'm trying to get away
                                    from. With the bottom netting, the slightest breeze is very cooling.
                                    On the other hand, this is certainly something I will look at during
                                    the cooler months when the mosquitos are still out and about.

                                    Brian

                                  • BRIAN
                                    ... problem... ;o) Have you ... it for my ... very good ... names is ... I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get bit. Maybe the
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                      <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                      > Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
                                      > mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
                                      problem... ;o) Have you
                                      > tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
                                      it for my
                                      > hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
                                      very good
                                      > results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
                                      > insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
                                      names is
                                      > Yard Guard.
                                      > Jerry

                                      I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
                                      bit. Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
                                      die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
                                      me. I'm going to check out the Yard Guard. Do you know the
                                      strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
                                      to spray form.

                                      Brian
                                    • ra1@imrisk.com
                                      Brian, I believe it is 2.5 percent and costs about 9 bucks for a big bottle. Rick
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                        Brian,

                                        I believe it is 2.5 percent and costs about 9 bucks for a big bottle.

                                        Rick

                                        Quoting BRIAN <opnheartscrub@...>:

                                        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                        > <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                        > > Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
                                        > > mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
                                        > problem... ;o) Have you
                                        > > tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
                                        > it for my
                                        > > hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
                                        > very good
                                        > > results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
                                        > > insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
                                        > names is
                                        > > Yard Guard.
                                        > > Jerry
                                        >
                                        > I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
                                        > bit. Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
                                        > die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
                                        > me. I'm going to check out the Yard Guard. Do you know the
                                        > strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
                                        > to spray form.
                                        >
                                        > Brian
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Jerry Goller
                                        It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a garden hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly. Interesting that the bugs bit
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                          Message
                                          It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a garden hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly.
                                          Interesting that the bugs bit right through the permethrin. What concentration did you use?
                                          Jerry
                                           
                                           

                                          http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                           

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
                                          Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:28 PM
                                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                          <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                          > Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
                                          > mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
                                          problem... ;o) Have you
                                          > tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
                                          it for my
                                          > hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
                                          very good
                                          > results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
                                          > insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
                                          names is
                                          > Yard Guard.
                                          > Jerry

                                          I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
                                          bit.  Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
                                          die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
                                          me.  I'm going to check out the Yard Guard.  Do you know the
                                          strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
                                          to spray form.

                                          Brian


                                        • BRIAN
                                          ... garden ... Jerry and Rick It appears mine is only 0.5%. It is in a 6 oz. spray can and called Repel Permanone. Is it supposed to kill upon contact? Brian
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                            <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                            > It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a
                                            garden
                                            > hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly.
                                            > Interesting that the bugs bit right through the permethrin. What
                                            > concentration did you use?
                                            > Jerry


                                            Jerry and Rick
                                            It appears mine is only 0.5%. It is in a 6 oz. spray can and called
                                            Repel Permanone. Is it supposed to kill upon contact?

                                            Brian
                                          • Jerry Goller
                                            As I understand it, yes. What usually happens is they don t come near me. I assume they can sense the permethrin. Jerry
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Aug 30, 2004
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                                              Message
                                              As I understand it, yes. What usually happens is they don't come near me. I assume they can sense the permethrin.
                                              Jerry
                                               
                                               

                                              http://www.BackpackGearTest.org : the most comprehensive interactive gear reviews and tests on the planet.

                                               

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
                                              Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:29 PM
                                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

                                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
                                              <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
                                              > It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a
                                              garden
                                              > hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly.
                                              > Interesting that the bugs bit right through the permethrin. What
                                              > concentration did you use?
                                              > Jerry


                                              Jerry and Rick
                                              It appears mine is only 0.5%. It is in a 6 oz. spray can and called
                                              Repel Permanone.  Is it supposed to kill upon contact?

                                              Brian


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