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Re: [Hammock Camping] Double-Bottom or Not

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  • David Chinell
    Jonas: I for SURE vote for the double-bottom hammock. It just makes things a lot easier to manage. Also, I suggest you leave both sides (long edges) of the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 14, 2004
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      Jonas:

      I for SURE vote for the double-bottom hammock.

      It just makes things a lot easier to manage. Also, I suggest you leave both
      sides (long edges) of the hammock open. That way you can insert the pad from
      either side. This means it doesn't matter which way you hang the hammock,
      you get even wear on both sides, and it's much easier to center and move the
      pads.

      Bear
    • Steve McBride
      Just in case you need one more vote to convince you to go with the double bottom, here it is. Risk s modification of the Speer Hammock, using the double
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 14, 2004
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        Just in case you need one more vote to convince you to go with the double
        bottom, here it is. Risk's modification of the Speer Hammock, using the
        double bottom, makes using a pad much more convenient. I've built three
        based on his descriptions, with double bottoms, no ridge line and the
        netting attached at one side. They work great, and everyone I loan the
        extras to when we go backpacking thinks they're great.

        Steve M
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <jonas4321@...>
        To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:04 AM
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Double-Bottom or Not


        >
        > I know you can put a pad inside a hammock, but is it a big advantage to
        > make a double-bottom hammock and leave one side open to allow inserting a
        > pad or two?

        > J
      • jonas4321@juno.com
        I thought I would hear that double-bottom was for me, based on all my reading. Thanks to all the comments. Rick, I am a little confused on the ZHammock- if I
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 14, 2004
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          I thought I would hear that double-bottom was for me, based on all my
          reading. Thanks to all the comments.

          Rick, I am a little confused on the ZHammock- if I read it right, the
          pads can be inserted from any one of 4 entry points along the long edges,
          and the 42" stitching in the middle of each long edge is there to keep
          the two layers spread together. This would be a modification to Bear's
          suggestion that I leave both sides open so the pads can be inserted from
          either side.

          Assuming I have that correct, is the bugnet attached at one side as it
          appears to be in the description that Steve gave below? If so, doesn't
          that make it so that you enter and exit from the same side all the time?
          If not, how *does* the bugnet attach to the sides, if at all? What is the
          anti-bug effectiveness of not attaching it to one or both sides (ala your
          Quarterweight hammock)? Yikes, I crammed the question-marks into that
          paragraph...

          So many questions, sorry. If I was into ultralight hiking, I would be a
          total gearhead (like I am with computers). I tend to think things out for
          a long time before investing either time or money. Then again, I usually
          enjoy what I end up with for a LONG time.


          On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:46:48 -0400 Steve McBride <drsm@...>
          writes:
          > Just in case you need one more vote to convince you to go with the
          > double
          > bottom, here it is. Risk's modification of the Speer Hammock, using
          > the
          > double bottom, makes using a pad much more convenient. I've built
          > three
          > based on his descriptions, with double bottoms, no ridge line and
          > the
          > netting attached at one side. They work great, and everyone I loan
          > the
          > extras to when we go backpacking thinks they're great.
          >
          > Steve M
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <jonas4321@...>
          > To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:04 AM
          > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Double-Bottom or Not
          >
          >
          > >
          > > I know you can put a pad inside a hammock, but is it a big
          > advantage to
          > > make a double-bottom hammock and leave one side open to allow
          > inserting a
          > > pad or two?
          >
          > > J
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

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        • Rick
          Hi Jonas, I have inserted some answers after your question marks... ... True. Bear and I disagree on this from what I can tell. I have a hammock with the
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 14, 2004
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            Hi Jonas,

            I have inserted some answers after your question marks...

            jonas4321@... wrote:

            >I thought I would hear that double-bottom was for me, based on all my
            >reading. Thanks to all the comments.
            >
            >Rick, I am a little confused on the ZHammock- if I read it right, the
            >pads can be inserted from any one of 4 entry points along the long edges,
            >and the 42" stitching in the middle of each long edge is there to keep
            >the two layers spread together. This would be a modification to Bear's
            >suggestion that I leave both sides open so the pads can be inserted from
            >either side.
            >
            >

            True. Bear and I disagree on this from what I can tell. I have a
            hammock with the ends of the long edges sewn together - the
            Quarterweight Hammock. I have had modest problems with the pad slipping
            out between the two layers. Thus my modification. To slip out, the pad
            would have to migrate to the head or the foot and then sideways.

            >Assuming I have that correct, is the bugnet attached at one side as it
            >appears to be in the description that Steve gave below?
            >
            My quarterweight hammock has the bugnet sewn to one edge. That worked
            pretty well, but gave me a problem with one side getting stretched out
            because it was the side I always got in and out from. Hence my new
            system to have neither side attached to the bug net.

            >If so, doesn't
            >that make it so that you enter and exit from the same side all the time?
            >
            >
            Yep... as above. When you read the description of ZHammock I go into
            that problem in detail.

            >If not, how *does* the bugnet attach to the sides, if at all?
            >
            The bug net drapes against the side of the hammock. In a bit of wind, I
            can place something that weighs about a half pound or so in a pocket on
            each side of the bug net. This keeps it against the side of the
            hammock. This arrangement has been reasonably bug proof in my
            experience on the AT and the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. It has
            protected me from mosquitoes, noseeums, black flies and sweat bees.

            >What is the
            >anti-bug effectiveness of not attaching it to one or both sides (ala your
            >Quarterweight hammock)? Yikes, I crammed the question-marks into that
            >paragraph...
            >
            >
            Ah, already answered.

            >So many questions, sorry. If I was into ultralight hiking, I would be a
            >total gearhead (like I am with computers). I tend to think things out for
            >a long time before investing either time or money. Then again, I usually
            >enjoy what I end up with for a LONG time.
            >
            >
            Perhaps a foray into ultralight will make it possible for you to get
            back to some modest backpacking. I had given up backpacking until I
            discovered the joy of a 15 pound pack.

            Walk well,
            Rick
          • jonas4321@juno.com
            Rick (and everyone)- Thank you SO much. I have what I believe will be one final question set (two somewhat related ones) before I start shopping for
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 15, 2004
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              Rick (and everyone)-

              Thank you SO much. I have what I believe will be one final question "set"
              (two somewhat related ones) before I start shopping for materials.

              I noticed that (1) your hammocks are 4' wide, while Speer designs are
              always 5' wide, and (2) that your ends (whipped or overhand) do not seem
              to do the "raising of the edges" when bunching the material up before
              knotting like the Speer design advocates. Can you comment on your choices
              in these areas? I read the knotting vs. whipping discussions, this isn't
              about that.

              Thanks in advance. Now to start the shopping analysis (my wife won't let
              me do the grocery shopping, I analyze every option and it takes me
              forever <grin>!).

              J

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            • Steve McBride
              Hey Risk, Do you have a page describing your new method of attaching the bug netting? And are you still using chiffon, or have you gone to noseeum netting? The
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 15, 2004
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                Hey Risk,

                Do you have a page describing your new method of attaching the bug netting?
                And are you still using chiffon, or have you gone to noseeum netting? The
                chiffon has worked well for me so far.

                Steve M
              • ra1@imrisk.com
                ... Other than the one purple hammock, I have used noseeum. It costs the same, but I have to mail order it. Advantages are: - does not get wet in fog and -
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 15, 2004
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                  Quoting Steve McBride <drsm@...>:

                  > Hey Risk,
                  >
                  > Do you have a page describing your new method of attaching the bug netting?
                  > And are you still using chiffon, or have you gone to noseeum netting? The
                  > chiffon has worked well for me so far.
                  >
                  > Steve M
                  >
                  Other than the one purple hammock, I have used noseeum. It costs the same, but
                  I have to mail order it. Advantages are:
                  - does not get wet in fog and
                  - does not need to be cut with a hot knife to keep it from unraveling.

                  I experimented with a nylon noseeum like fabric from walmart, but am concerned
                  the holes in the mesh are large enough to allow noseeums to enter.

                  I now sew a strip of grosgrain along the middle of a 60 inch wide piece of
                  noseum, attaching two clips to that grosgrain. They hook into a couple D rings
                  on the hammock straps. The ends are covered/sealed by the hammocktubes. I sew
                  a pocket on the inside of each side into which I can slip something with several
                  ounces of weight... either something from the pack or a small stone.

                  Picture of this set-up is with ZHammock here:

                  http://www.imrisk.com/zhammock/zhammock.htm

                  See the third and fourth pictures.

                  Risk
                • rambler4466
                  ... double ... using the ... three ... the ... the ... advantage to ... inserting a ... At first this seemed like a good idea to me , the double bottom
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 18, 2004
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Steve McBride <drsm@d...>
                    wrote:
                    > Just in case you need one more vote to convince you to go with the
                    double
                    > bottom, here it is. Risk's modification of the Speer Hammock,
                    using the
                    > double bottom, makes using a pad much more convenient. I've built
                    three
                    > based on his descriptions, with double bottoms, no ridge line and
                    the
                    > netting attached at one side. They work great, and everyone I loan
                    the
                    > extras to when we go backpacking thinks they're great.
                    >
                    > Steve M
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: <jonas4321@j...>
                    > To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:04 AM
                    > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Double-Bottom or Not
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > I know you can put a pad inside a hammock, but is it a big
                    advantage to
                    > > make a double-bottom hammock and leave one side open to allow
                    inserting a
                    > > pad or two?
                    >
                    > > J

                    At first this seemed like a good idea to me , the double bottom
                    providing an easy way to add the pad and keep it in place. But, why
                    add this extra weight to the hammock? Once inserted into the
                    hammock, my pad does not shift or slip around as I sleep. I've also
                    used a double pad system and the pads do not slip around. While the
                    double bottom adds convenience, it does not dramatically improve the
                    effectiveness of the pads. From Ed Speer's book, p.79-80, "It is
                    posssible to increase a hammock's warmth by adding....heavier
                    fabrics or insulation....it is better to add ...extra weight to the
                    sleeping bag and/or pad than to the hammock itself."
                    Also I like having a ridge line. I found that when it holds the
                    netting up away from one's face and body, it also does something
                    else that adds to the warmth of the hammock. Do you notice that the
                    netting is not always directly centered over your body? One side of
                    the hammock's material is often held up higher than the other side.
                    The ridge line as it pulls the netting taut, is also pulling up any
                    loose hammock fabric. The hammock siding being pulled up higher
                    acts as a wind block to any broadside breeze, thus keeping the
                    person in the hammock warmer, out of any cooling breeze or draft
                    that might not be blocked by the tarp.
                    This leads me to another question. As the days get cooler and bugs
                    disappear, we leave the netting at home, but doesn't netting keep in
                    heat and therefore, keep us a little warmer? As just noted it helps
                    keep the siding up which adds warmth. Maybe when we do leave the
                    netting off, we could rig a light line or two to the ridge lines to
                    help keep the side material up.
                  • Rick
                    ... I use 1.9 oz ripstop for a single thickness hammock. I use 1.1 oz fabric for a double bottom hammock. Combined that is 2.2 oz per sq yd. My most
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 18, 2004
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                      rambler4466 wrote:

                      >
                      >At first this seemed like a good idea to me , the double bottom
                      >providing an easy way to add the pad and keep it in place. But, why
                      >add this extra weight to the hammock?
                      >
                      <Risk> I use 1.9 oz ripstop for a single thickness hammock. I use 1.1
                      oz fabric for a double bottom hammock. Combined that is 2.2 oz per sq
                      yd. My most recent hammock size is 4x9 ft = 36 sq ft. = 4 sq yd. The
                      difference in weight between the two systems is 0.3 oz per sq yd. That
                      gives me an additional 1.2 oz.

                      To be fair, I count ounces are carefully as most people. Nevertheless,
                      the convenience of using the double bottom to use clothing, pack, and
                      pads for insulation makes the extra weight worthwhile to me.

                      >Once inserted into the
                      >hammock, my pad does not shift or slip around as I sleep.
                      >
                      <Risk>I turn a lot - maybe a dozen times a night. I had some problems
                      with pads moving before I began to use a double bottom.

                      >I've also
                      >used a double pad system and the pads do not slip around.
                      >
                      <Risk>Cool! I had not heard from anyone else that the double pad system
                      would work with a single bottom hammock. Thanks!

                      >This leads me to another question. As the days get cooler and bugs
                      >disappear, we leave the netting at home, but doesn't netting keep in
                      >heat and therefore, keep us a little warmer?
                      >
                      >
                      <Risk>Yes, it does make it warmer. However, I replace the bug net with
                      my "TravelPod" which is a LOT warmer.
                    • Gregory Doggett
                      ... why ... also ... the ... the ... the ... Rambler, I came to the same conclusion. The 3-4 oz. of extra weight was nt worth the extra convenience proponents
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 19, 2004
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "rambler4466"
                        <rambler4466@h...> wrote:
                        > At first this seemed like a good idea to me , the double bottom
                        > providing an easy way to add the pad and keep it in place. But,
                        why
                        > add this extra weight to the hammock? Once inserted into the
                        > hammock, my pad does not shift or slip around as I sleep. I've
                        also
                        > used a double pad system and the pads do not slip around. While
                        the
                        > double bottom adds convenience, it does not dramatically improve
                        the
                        > effectiveness of the pads. From Ed Speer's book, p.79-80, "It is
                        > posssible to increase a hammock's warmth by adding....heavier
                        > fabrics or insulation....it is better to add ...extra weight to
                        the
                        > sleeping bag and/or pad than to the hammock itself."

                        Rambler,
                        I came to the same conclusion. The 3-4 oz. of extra weight was'nt
                        worth the extra convenience proponents talked about. But then I'm
                        kind of somewhat a bit of an ultralight fanatic to the point that
                        I.......pssssst.....[sometimes sleep on the G-R-O-U-N-D on a torso
                        sized foam pad under a 5x8 Silponcho!!!]
                        GD
                      • robi
                        Folks, I was about to make a hammock stand along the lines of risk s. but the missus said she would like one made out of bamboo instead. ya know, it s purdyer.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jul 25, 2004
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                          Folks,

                          I was about to make a hammock stand along the lines of risk's.

                          but the missus said she would like one made out of bamboo instead. ya
                          know, it's purdyer.

                          so, i seem to remember somebody a long time ago talking about that ehre.

                          Hit me with all ideas on a bamboo stand...


                          And also, how do you convince your travelling partners that there is no
                          need to fill the car up just because stuff can still fit in it and that
                          includes the box on top...

                          i hate packng fro family trips cos nobody listens to me that we do not
                          need 1/2 of the stuff....


                          robi

                          On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:51:17 -0400, <ra1@...> wrote:

                          > Quoting Steve McBride <drsm@...>:
                          >
                          >> Hey Risk,
                          >>
                          >> Do you have a page describing your new method of attaching the bug
                          >> netting?
                          >> And are you still using chiffon, or have you gone to noseeum netting?
                          >> The
                          >> chiffon has worked well for me so far.
                          >>
                          >> Steve M
                          >>
                          > Other than the one purple hammock, I have used noseeum. It costs the
                          > same, but
                          > I have to mail order it. Advantages are:
                          > - does not get wet in fog and
                          > - does not need to be cut with a hot knife to keep it from unraveling.
                          >
                          > I experimented with a nylon noseeum like fabric from walmart, but am
                          > concerned
                          > the holes in the mesh are large enough to allow noseeums to enter.
                          >
                          > I now sew a strip of grosgrain along the middle of a 60 inch wide piece
                          > of
                          > noseum, attaching two clips to that grosgrain. They hook into a couple
                          > D rings
                          > on the hammock straps. The ends are covered/sealed by the
                          > hammocktubes. I sew
                          > a pocket on the inside of each side into which I can slip something with
                          > several
                          > ounces of weight... either something from the pack or a small stone.
                          >
                          > Picture of this set-up is with ZHammock here:
                          >
                          > http://www.imrisk.com/zhammock/zhammock.htm
                          >
                          > See the third and fourth pictures.
                          >
                          > Risk
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >



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