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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: ZHammock Page

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  • Rick
    ... Dave, Weight saved in cloth is about an ounce. Actually 8/9 of 1.1 oz. The weight of the cords I used is about half of that - half an ounce. Almost all
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 6, 2004
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      Dave Womble wrote:

      >Rick,
      >
      >I was a little curious about the advantage of using whipped ends. I
      >think you mentioned before that you were not hemming the short ends
      >of the hammock when you used Ed's overhand knot but that you do hem
      >the short ends of the hammock when you use the whipped ends. You
      >still use less fabric with the whipped ends, but you have added cord
      >to the whipped ends. Seems to me the overhand knot is easier to make
      >and is known to be trouble free. Any idea of how much weight you are
      >saving using the whipped ends versus the overhand knot?
      >
      >Dave
      >
      >
      >
      Dave,

      Weight saved in cloth is about an ounce. Actually 8/9 of 1.1 oz. The
      weight of the cords I used is about half of that - half an ounce.
      Almost all the weight savings could be retained by using a very light
      whipping of heavy fishing line. But weight savings is not the best
      reason to consider whipped ends.

      There is the savings of the cost and bulk of the cloth to consider. I
      bought almost a yard less of material and saved about $4 of material
      cost. When I fold my hammock up, there is a little less bulk to stuff
      into the stuff sack.

      The other advantage is mainly for experimenters like me. It is as easy
      as duck soup to take the whipping off and make a change in the hammock.
      Having untied the overhand knots in hammocks many times, I don't mind
      skipping the 15-30 minutes necessary to untie those nasty knots at all.
      Ray Garlington originally made the suggestion when he was experimenting
      with smooth curves in the end of the hammock with a goal of having
      better edge control. I have not tried those experiments, but can
      imagine how whipping the end of the hammock can make such a process
      much easier.

      I am considering adding a second whipping that incorporates the strap
      and the hammock - that will be purely for the vanity of making the joint
      look finished.

      However, at day's finish, whipping or tying the ends of the hammock is a
      flourish and not worth worrying about. For the addicted hammock
      builder, I suggest trying the whipping route as an experiment. I find
      the improvement modest, but real. Only a year's worth of experience
      will tell me if the whipped end is as durable as the Speer overhand knot.

      Risk
    • Dave Womble
      ... I ... ends ... hem ... cord ... make ... are ... The ... light ... consider. I ... material ... stuff ... easy ... hammock. ... mind ... all. ...
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 6, 2004
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
        > Dave Womble wrote:
        >
        > >Rick,
        > >
        > >I was a little curious about the advantage of using whipped ends.
        I
        > >think you mentioned before that you were not hemming the short
        ends
        > >of the hammock when you used Ed's overhand knot but that you do
        hem
        > >the short ends of the hammock when you use the whipped ends. You
        > >still use less fabric with the whipped ends, but you have added
        cord
        > >to the whipped ends. Seems to me the overhand knot is easier to
        make
        > >and is known to be trouble free. Any idea of how much weight you
        are
        > >saving using the whipped ends versus the overhand knot?
        > >
        > >Dave
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > Dave,
        >
        > Weight saved in cloth is about an ounce. Actually 8/9 of 1.1 oz.
        The
        > weight of the cords I used is about half of that - half an ounce.
        > Almost all the weight savings could be retained by using a very
        light
        > whipping of heavy fishing line. But weight savings is not the best
        > reason to consider whipped ends.
        >
        > There is the savings of the cost and bulk of the cloth to
        consider. I
        > bought almost a yard less of material and saved about $4 of
        material
        > cost. When I fold my hammock up, there is a little less bulk to
        stuff
        > into the stuff sack.
        >
        > The other advantage is mainly for experimenters like me. It is as
        easy
        > as duck soup to take the whipping off and make a change in the
        hammock.
        > Having untied the overhand knots in hammocks many times, I don't
        mind
        > skipping the 15-30 minutes necessary to untie those nasty knots at
        all.
        > Ray Garlington originally made the suggestion when he was
        experimenting
        > with smooth curves in the end of the hammock with a goal of having
        > better edge control. I have not tried those experiments, but can
        > imagine how whipping the end of the hammock can make such a
        process
        > much easier.
        >
        > I am considering adding a second whipping that incorporates the
        strap
        > and the hammock - that will be purely for the vanity of making the
        joint
        > look finished.
        >
        > However, at day's finish, whipping or tying the ends of the hammock
        is a
        > flourish and not worth worrying about. For the addicted hammock
        > builder, I suggest trying the whipping route as an experiment. I
        find
        > the improvement modest, but real. Only a year's worth of
        experience
        > will tell me if the whipped end is as durable as the Speer overhand
        knot.
        >
        > Risk

        Thanks Rick, I can appreciate untying the overhand knots as I too
        have wore out my fingers on occasion. I guess any weight savings
        using the whipping instead of the overhand knot will be a function of
        the weight of the fabric and the width of the hammock. I say this
        because the whipping requires hemmed ends and the amount of fabric
        taken up would seem to be independent of fabric weight and hammock
        width, where as with the overhand knot the hemmed end is not
        necessary and the amount of fabric taken up with the knot will change
        depending on the fabric weight and hammock width. What I am getting
        at is that for some combination of fabric weight and hammock width,
        the whipping technique could actually result in a heavier hammock.
        For instance, if you used a single layer of 1.1 oz material for a 4
        foot wide hammock it is not obvious to me that the whipped ends would
        result in a weight savings... actually, when I try to back that out
        using your estimates I suspect that the whipping would result in a
        slightly heavier hammock. Just trying to do a little figuring, and
        thanks again for the info.

        Dave
      • Rick
        Dave, I understand your question about weight. This is what I have done: - I cut the hammock cloth 1 foot shorter - I sew a rolled over hem, a quarter to a
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 6, 2004
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          Dave,

          I understand your question about weight.

          This is what I have done:
          - I cut the hammock cloth 1 foot shorter
          - I sew a rolled over hem, a quarter to a third of an inch wide (This
          shortens the hammock about an inch overall, when both ends are considered.)

          So I save a foot of hammock fabric length. I think this almost always
          will be a weight savings when adding back in the weight of whipping
          cord, but not much. For a double bottom hammock it saves two feet of
          length. That is where I got my 8 sq ft of savings (my hammocks, as you
          know, are 4 feet wide). Since a square yard is 9 sq ft, I figured I
          saved 8/9 of the 1.1 oz per sq yard of fabric.

          Seen another way, it can save 1/10 of the hammock material weight for my
          now 9 foot long material that was 10 feet long before. And I get the
          same interior room I had previously.

          Rick

          >
          >Thanks Rick, I can appreciate untying the overhand knots as I too
          >have wore out my fingers on occasion. I guess any weight savings
          >using the whipping instead of the overhand knot will be a function of
          >the weight of the fabric and the width of the hammock. I say this
          >because the whipping requires hemmed ends and the amount of fabric
          >taken up would seem to be independent of fabric weight and hammock
          >width, where as with the overhand knot the hemmed end is not
          >necessary and the amount of fabric taken up with the knot will change
          >depending on the fabric weight and hammock width. What I am getting
          >at is that for some combination of fabric weight and hammock width,
          >the whipping technique could actually result in a heavier hammock.
          >For instance, if you used a single layer of 1.1 oz material for a 4
          >foot wide hammock it is not obvious to me that the whipped ends would
          >result in a weight savings... actually, when I try to back that out
          >using your estimates I suspect that the whipping would result in a
          >slightly heavier hammock. Just trying to do a little figuring, and
          >thanks again for the info.
          >
          >Dave
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
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