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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Strapping

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  • Thomas Peltier@Goldenautomotive.com
    I found some seatbelt webbing that is very wide and flat. I have been using this for my tree huggers lately. Very wide and not stretchy, works well as a tree
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 25, 2004
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      I found some seatbelt webbing that is very wide and flat. I have been
      using this for my tree huggers lately. Very wide and not stretchy,
      works well as a tree hugger.

      "besides the stuff on their website the surplus store has a big rack
      of raw strapping. What I'm really after is a feel for how small of a
      webbing size can I go for? and conversly how cheap can I get it.
      Most of their stuff was $1.50 per lb"
    • Ralph Oborn
      While perusing a Army-Navy store in Idaho Falls, I saw a bunch of straps and stuff http://tinyurl.com/3dd7j What is the difference between nylon and poly
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 26, 2004
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        While perusing a Army-Navy store in Idaho Falls, I saw a bunch of
        straps and stuff

        http://tinyurl.com/3dd7j

        What is the difference between nylon and poly strap, which is best
        for hammock strapping?

        How do I decide what will hold?


        Any suggestions?

        Prices seem to good to pass up, what am I missing?

        Ralph
        PS Just got back from camping with my scouts in my HH, thanks for
        suggestion of hooking ensolite pad to ridgeline.
      • Rick
        ... Nylon stretches and keeps stretching. Poly straps stretch much less. Have you not yet read Ed s book Ralph? He covers all that in detail. If you have
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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          Ralph Oborn wrote:

          >While perusing a Army-Navy store in Idaho Falls, I saw a bunch of
          >straps and stuff
          >
          >http://tinyurl.com/3dd7j
          >
          >What is the difference between nylon and poly strap, which is best
          >for hammock strapping?
          >
          >How do I decide what will hold?
          >
          >
          >Any suggestions?
          >
          >Prices seem to good to pass up, what am I missing?
          >
          >Ralph
          >
          >
          Nylon stretches and keeps stretching. Poly straps stretch much less.
          Have you not yet read Ed's book Ralph? He covers all that in detail. If
          you have not, it certainly is worth the read.

          Risk
        • dlfrost_1
          ... As mentioned, nylon is strethcy (which is part of its strength), while poly is much less so. And it is often lighter in weight. I think that s what you re
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
            <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
            > While perusing a Army-Navy store in Idaho Falls, I saw a bunch of
            > straps and stuff
            >
            > http://tinyurl.com/3dd7j
            >
            > What is the difference between nylon and poly strap, which is best
            > for hammock strapping?
            >
            > How do I decide what will hold?
            >
            >
            > Any suggestions?
            >
            > Prices seem to good to pass up, what am I missing?
            >
            > Ralph

            As mentioned, nylon is strethcy (which is part of its strength),
            while poly is much less so. And it is often lighter in weight.

            I think that's what you're missing here: the issue of weight. Most
            of that stuff they sell at the surplus stores weighs a ton compaired
            to what ends up being most popular on the trail. Straps with metal
            buckles? Canvas water buckets? Giant tow straps? These are fine
            for a hunting basecamp hauled in with a 4x4, but not for backpacking.

            Start weighing everything you take camping. :-)

            Doug Frost
          • Ralph Oborn
            While not an ultralighter yet, I m not into heavy weight either. Although something to slow down my scouts wouldn t be all bad. Besides the stuff on their
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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              While not an ultralighter yet, I'm not into heavy weight either.
              Although something to slow down my scouts wouldn't be all bad.

              Besides the stuff on their website the surplus store has a big rack
              of raw strapping. What I'm really after is a feel for how small of a
              webbing size can I go for? and conversly how cheap can I get it.
              Most of their stuff was $1.50 per lb.

              I did read in Ed's (excellent) book about the stretchyness of nylon
              but is enough to really cause problems. (Will you be a ground
              dweller in the morning?
              If I can find some specs on it how much strength is enough? How much
              is overkill? Dead weight on a hammock rope is around 400 lbs. Is
              double enough?
              I was hoping to find someone with some experience.
              Barring that I'll pick up a few chunks and try em out on my backyard
              test bed.
              My purpose is to help a dozen scouts build their own hammocks so
              cost is probably more important than grams right now.

              Ralph




              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dlfrost_1" <dlfrost@a...>
              wrote:
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
              > <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
              > > While perusing a Army-Navy store in Idaho Falls, I saw a bunch
              of straps and stuff http://tinyurl.com/3dd7j
              > > What is the difference between nylon and poly strap, which is
              best for hammock strapping?
              > > How do I decide what will hold?
              > > > > Any suggestions?
              > > Prices seem to good to pass up, what am I missing?
              > >
              > > Ralph
              >
              > As mentioned, nylon is strethcy (which is part of its strength),
              > while poly is much less so. And it is often lighter in weight.
              >
              > I think that's what you're missing here: the issue of weight.
              Most of that stuff they sell at the surplus stores weighs a ton
              compaired to what ends up being most popular on the trail. Straps
              with metal buckles? Canvas water buckets? Giant tow straps? These
              are fine for a hunting basecamp hauled in with a 4x4, but not for
              backpacking.
              >
              > Start weighing everything you take camping. :-)
              >
              > Doug Frost
            • Admin
              ... much ... Most manufacturers of rope/cord recommend that the working load never exceed 15% of new rope breaking strength. If dead weight is 400 lbs, you d
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
                <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
                > If I can find some specs on it how much strength is enough? How
                much
                > is overkill? Dead weight on a hammock rope is around 400 lbs. Is
                > double enough?
                > I was hoping to find someone with some experience.

                Most manufacturers of rope/cord recommend that the working load never
                exceed 15% of new rope breaking strength. If dead weight is 400 lbs,
                you'd want a rope with a breaking strength of ~3700 lbs. Remember, a
                knot halves the breaking strength of any rope, and the stress
                generated from falling even a modest amount adds up quickly in
                poundforce/newtons. Ropes should be replaced periodically as they
                begin to show signs of wear. For avid hammockers, that could be
                anywhere from every three months (of hard use) to several years.

                It is my opinion (though unverified as I have never tested it) that
                the speer suspension system (with the rope and "tree-hugger" combined
                as one) would be more prone to wear and frequent replacement than a
                system which breaks it into two parts: one that hangs the hammock and
                one that goes around the relatively abrasive tree. There are many
                factors involved in this, however, and real life application may
                yeild far different results.

                -Howie
              • Dave Womble
                Ralph, As you might imagine, hammock straps/webbing/ropes has come up a few times on this list. If you go back to post #5421 you will find the start of a
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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                  Ralph,

                  As you might imagine, hammock straps/webbing/ropes has come up a few
                  times on this list. If you go back to post #5421 you will find the
                  start of a similar discussion that we had in April where a few folks
                  discussed what they prefered to use. I recall it being very
                  informative and it might answer some of your questions a little
                  quicker.

                  A dozen hammocks huh? That is a pretty good size order. Are you
                  planning on using 8'x10' blue tarps for the hammock beds? My
                  understanding is that using a vapor barrier for the hammock bed will
                  make them uncomfortable in hot or warm weather since no air can
                  circulate through the vapor barrier. I can buy 1.9 oz rip-stop nylon
                  for less than $5 per yard at my local Hancock Fabric store and it
                  takes about 3.5 yards to make a hammock. How much cheaper is it to
                  use the 8'x10' blue tarps for the hammock beds?

                  Youngblood

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
                  <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
                  > While not an ultralighter yet, I'm not into heavy weight either.
                  > Although something to slow down my scouts wouldn't be all bad.
                  >
                  > Besides the stuff on their website the surplus store has a big
                  rack
                  > of raw strapping. What I'm really after is a feel for how small of
                  a
                  > webbing size can I go for? and conversly how cheap can I get it.
                  > Most of their stuff was $1.50 per lb.
                  >
                  > I did read in Ed's (excellent) book about the stretchyness of nylon
                  > but is enough to really cause problems. (Will you be a ground
                  > dweller in the morning?
                  > If I can find some specs on it how much strength is enough? How
                  much
                  > is overkill? Dead weight on a hammock rope is around 400 lbs. Is
                  > double enough?
                  > I was hoping to find someone with some experience.
                  > Barring that I'll pick up a few chunks and try em out on my
                  backyard
                  > test bed.
                  > My purpose is to help a dozen scouts build their own hammocks so
                  > cost is probably more important than grams right now.
                  >
                  > Ralph
                  >
                • Ralph Oborn
                  good point. an 8x 10 blue tarp $4.00. As you can tell I m still in the preliminary stage, I haven t thought this all the way through yet so input from the list
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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                    good point. an 8x 10 blue tarp $4.00.
                    As you can tell I'm still in the preliminary stage, I haven't
                    thought this all the way through yet so input from the list is
                    beneficial. The question I wrestle with is: Should I do something
                    quick, cheap and easy from material they already have or go for
                    higher quality and a little more money? To be honest anything we
                    make will not be used more than a few times in the next couple of
                    years. There are probably a couple of scouts who will continue and
                    want to upgrade (start making their own etc. I've seen this in
                    snowshoes we made and a few other ideas.
                    Thanks for the post reference I'll go back and look, meanwhile I'm
                    in the muddled stage while I gather more information.
                    Thanks.
                    Ralph

                    PS. Just got back on an overnighter, with the little beasties,
                    Friday night to Saturday. Cooking on a fire, Snipe hunts, bats,
                    owls, pretty little meadow, no computers, no phones, strung my HH
                    between two aspen trees next to the creek ahhhhhh




                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Ralph,
                    >
                    > As you might imagine, hammock straps/webbing/ropes has come up a
                    few
                    > times on this list. If you go back to post #5421 you will find
                    the
                    > start of a similar discussion that we had in April where a few
                    folks
                    > discussed what they prefered to use. I recall it being very
                    > informative and it might answer some of your questions a little
                    > quicker.
                    >
                    > A dozen hammocks huh? That is a pretty good size order. Are you
                    > planning on using 8'x10' blue tarps for the hammock beds? My
                    > understanding is that using a vapor barrier for the hammock bed
                    will make them uncomfortable in hot or warm weather since no air
                    can circulate through the vapor barrier. I can buy 1.9 oz rip-stop
                    nylon for less than $5 per yard at my local Hancock Fabric store and
                    it takes about 3.5 yards to make a hammock. How much cheaper is it
                    to use the 8'x10' blue tarps for the hammock beds?
                    >
                    > Youngblood
                    >
                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
                    > <polecatpop@y...> wrote:

                    > > My purpose is to help a dozen scouts build their own hammocks so
                    > > cost is probably more important than grams right now.
                    > >
                    > > Ralph
                    > >
                  • Ralph Oborn
                    As I followed the comments below #5412 I came across all sorts of good stuff. Quick comment: For fathers day my wife gave me a 12 inch pickett slide rule she
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 27, 2004
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                      As I followed the comments below #5412 I came across all sorts of
                      good stuff.
                      Quick comment: For fathers day my wife gave me a 12 inch pickett
                      slide rule she found in an antique store, I still have my old 6 inch
                      sterling.

                      Somtimes obsessive people like me get a bug in our ear and just have
                      to try out some ideas. Thats me trying to be cheap and easy with my
                      blue tarps, when I've gone through that learning phase and learned a
                      bit I'll be up where you guys are now. (of course by then you'll
                      have advanced to who knows where) Thanks for the input guys!

                      Ralph



                      > >
                    • Rick
                      ... My $.02: There is little difference in cost. The blue tarps will seem cheap, heavy, and bulky. If you just want cheap, there are almost always polyester
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 28, 2004
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                        Ralph Oborn wrote:

                        >good point. an 8x 10 blue tarp $4.00.
                        >As you can tell I'm still in the preliminary stage, I haven't
                        >thought this all the way through yet so input from the list is
                        >beneficial. The question I wrestle with is: Should I do something
                        >quick, cheap and easy from material they already have or go for
                        >higher quality and a little more money? To be honest anything we
                        >make will not be used more than a few times in the next couple of
                        >years. There are probably a couple of scouts who will continue and
                        >want to upgrade (start making their own etc. I've seen this in
                        >snowshoes we made and a few other ideas.
                        >Thanks for the post reference I'll go back and look, meanwhile I'm
                        >in the muddled stage while I gather more information.
                        >Thanks.
                        >Ralph
                        >
                        >PS. Just got back on an overnighter, with the little beasties,
                        >Friday night to Saturday. Cooking on a fire, Snipe hunts, bats,
                        >owls, pretty little meadow, no computers, no phones, strung my HH
                        >between two aspen trees next to the creek ahhhhhh
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        My $.02:

                        There is little difference in cost. The blue tarps will seem cheap,
                        heavy, and bulky. If you just want cheap, there are almost always
                        polyester fabrics at WalMart which would be much more compact and
                        comfortable than a tarp available for $1 a yard.

                        For a description of the full set-up, see:

                        http://www.imrisk.com/testhammock/testhammock.htm

                        Rick
                      • Ralph Oborn
                        Yup, that particular post was the kicker that got me started, even though you guys think I ve gone over to the dark side. Thanks. ... cheap,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 28, 2004
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                          Yup, that particular post was the kicker that got me started, even
                          though you guys think I've gone over to the dark side. Thanks.


                          > My $.02:
                          >
                          > There is little difference in cost. The blue tarps will seem
                          cheap,
                          > heavy, and bulky. If you just want cheap, there are almost always
                          > polyester fabrics at WalMart which would be much more compact and
                          > comfortable than a tarp available for $1 a yard.
                          >
                          > For a description of the full set-up, see:
                          >
                          > http://www.imrisk.com/testhammock/testhammock.htm
                          >
                          > Rick
                        • Ed Speer
                          This issue of proper webbing straps can be quite complex and confusing--but it s a good topic for our list and thanks to everyone who has posted. I though I
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 28, 2004
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                            This issue of proper webbing straps can be quite complex and confusing--but
                            it's a good topic for our list and thanks to everyone who has posted. I
                            though I might be able to help the discussion. As some of you know, In my
                            Hammock Camping book I recommend using 1" heavyweight polypropylene webbing
                            with breaking strength of at least 600 lbs for making your own hammock--we
                            use 700 lb polypro at Speer Hammocks. The issue of safety is of critical
                            concern when it comes to hanging straps and I discuss this at length in the
                            book. Be aware that not all 1" polypro webbing has the same breaking
                            strength--some is as little as 200 lbs! However the strength is not the
                            only consideration--type of stretch is also most important; for instance
                            nylon is stronger & has less stretch, but has an unsuitable type of stretch.
                            I've settled on heavy-weight 1" polypro for static loads up to 250 lbs and
                            1.5" polypro for loads up to 350 lbs. My original Speer Hammock has over
                            4,500 hours of use--that's 560 nights! And it doen't show any sign of
                            failure--the straps are still working just fine!

                            It is impossible for me to evaluate the breaking strenght of webbing simply
                            by looking at it. In fact, I can't even tell what it's made of simply by
                            looking at it--nylon, polypro or polyster; they all look the same. While
                            there are certainly lots of suitable webbings out there, I'm always looking
                            for the greatest strength, lightest weight, lest bulk and proper type of
                            stretch. In the book, I caution about accepting the breaking strength of
                            webbing as given by salespersons--they often don't know and make up numbers
                            just to get you to buy--if you don't belive this, just ask the same sales
                            clerk a few months later; you're likely to get a different number. If I
                            can't find the breaking or tensil strength on the original manufacturer's
                            packaging, I don't buy it!

                            One other point, some polyester webbing is even better than polypro or nylon
                            since it is stronger and has no stretch, but it's not readily available in
                            anything less than special orders of 5,000' or more. While polyester also
                            comes in varying breaking strengths, I've seen some 1" w/ 960 lb strength
                            that's very good--however, I no longer can get it.

                            Of course, many ropes have acceptable stretch and breaking strengths, but we
                            don’t use them at Speer Hammocks because round ropes can easily bruse the
                            bark of young trees since they can roll or creep down the tree under load of
                            the occupied hammock.

                            Another caution, all webbing can be damaged by exposure to
                            sunlight--polypro, nylon or polyester! Polypro is probably the best in this
                            regard, but even it too should be protected as much as possible from direct
                            sunlight.

                            Hope this helps....Ed
                          • ra1@imrisk.com
                            ... Dark side? No! Not unless you have started sleeping in the mud again. Risk
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 28, 2004
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                              Quoting Ralph Oborn <polecatpop@...>:

                              > Yup, that particular post was the kicker that got me started, even
                              > though you guys think I've gone over to the dark side. Thanks.
                              >
                              Dark side? No! Not unless you have started sleeping in the mud again.

                              Risk
                            • dlfrost_1
                              ... rack ... a ... much ... backyard ... Most people do fine with the 1 poly webbing that you can get from questoutfitters.com or owfinc.com. The med. weight
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 28, 2004
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                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
                                <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
                                > While not an ultralighter yet, I'm not into heavy weight either.
                                > Although something to slow down my scouts wouldn't be all bad.
                                >
                                > Besides the stuff on their website the surplus store has a big
                                rack
                                > of raw strapping. What I'm really after is a feel for how small of
                                a
                                > webbing size can I go for? and conversly how cheap can I get it.
                                > Most of their stuff was $1.50 per lb.
                                > I did read in Ed's (excellent) book about the stretchyness of nylon
                                > but is enough to really cause problems. (Will you be a ground
                                > dweller in the morning?
                                > If I can find some specs on it how much strength is enough? How
                                much
                                > is overkill? Dead weight on a hammock rope is around 400 lbs. Is
                                > double enough?
                                > I was hoping to find someone with some experience.
                                > Barring that I'll pick up a few chunks and try em out on my
                                backyard
                                > test bed.
                                > My purpose is to help a dozen scouts build their own hammocks so
                                > cost is probably more important than grams right now.
                                >
                                > Ralph

                                Most people do fine with the 1" poly webbing that you can get from
                                questoutfitters.com or owfinc.com. The med. weight webbing from the
                                former is 45¢ per yard, which works out to about $1.50 for a 10 foot
                                length. (You'll want to buy a bunch at once to save on shipping
                                though.)

                                Also see Ed Speer's message above on this topic.

                                Doug Frost
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