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reinforcements at the tie-outs?

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  • rambler4466
    Ed Speer s tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at any of the tie-outs even the ridge line. Aren t they important? Also, tie- outs whose ends are
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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      Ed Speer's tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at any of
      the tie-outs even the ridge line. Aren't they important? Also, tie-
      outs whose ends are sewn side-by-side with an added twist are better
      for inserting stakes as well as tie-outs. Tie-outs added by sewing
      the ends one atop the other, need to be twisted if a sake is used.
      Adding gormets solves that issue. What about reinforcements??
    • Dave Womble
      ... of ... tie- ... better ... Rambler, I used scrap pieces of silnylon, doubled over, as reinforcement for the tieouts. I used 3/4 or 1 grosgrain ribbon
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "rambler4466"
        <rambler4466@h...> wrote:
        > Ed Speer's tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at any
        of
        > the tie-outs even the ridge line. Aren't they important? Also,
        tie-
        > outs whose ends are sewn side-by-side with an added twist are
        better
        > for inserting stakes as well as tie-outs. Tie-outs added by sewing
        > the ends one atop the other, need to be twisted if a sake is used.
        > Adding gormets solves that issue. What about reinforcements??

        Rambler,

        I used scrap pieces of silnylon, doubled over, as reinforcement for
        the tieouts. I used 3/4" or 1" grosgrain ribbon for the tieouts.

        I think many attachment approaches will work okay as long as you
        understand the failure mechanisms and take them into account. I look
        at the reinforcement issue as primarily a way of spreading out the
        needle holes that are taking most of the stress from the tieouts and
        secondarily as a way of getting more of the silnylon fabric sharing
        the stress at the tieout attachment points.

        I have not had a problem just sewing 4 inch pieces of grosgrain
        ribbon in a loop such that the reinforced tarp material is sandwiched
        in between. The grosgrain ribbon seems stiff enough to seperate
        easily when I want to insert a stake or cord. I have had a problem
        before on the door attachment ribbons with a Silshelter and have it
        with some attachment ribbons I use on a closed cell foam pad and wish
        they had the twist you mentioned; it can be frustrating, especially
        when your hands are cold and/or wet. It is most likely a function of
        both the stiffness of the ribbon and the length of the loop. A twist
        is probably more functional and if a twist makes you happy, then use
        it, it just takes a more sewing and a tad more ribbon.

        I don't like gromments in liu of ribbon, my first silnylon tarp had
        grommets and I didn't particularly like them. Silnylon is very
        slippery and I was always worried they would fail if I put much
        stress on them.

        Youngblood
      • Rick
        ... I add them. Two sources for information are from Henry Shire s original TarpTent instructions (has picture and diagram of reinforcement)
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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          rambler4466 wrote:

          >Ed Speer's tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at any of
          >the tie-outs even the ridge line. Aren't they important? Also, tie-
          >outs whose ends are sewn side-by-side with an added twist are better
          >for inserting stakes as well as tie-outs. Tie-outs added by sewing
          >the ends one atop the other, need to be twisted if a sake is used.
          >Adding gormets solves that issue. What about reinforcements??
          >
          >
          >
          I add them.

          Two sources for information are from Henry Shire's original TarpTent
          instructions
          (has picture and diagram of reinforcement)
          http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html

          and Ben's tarp tent instructions.
          (good diagrams of sewing the ridgeline reinforcement)
          http://www.backpacking.net/makegear/tarptent3

          Rick
        • Chet Clocksin
          I have used 7/8 inch wide grosgrain ribbon, attached the way Dave mentioned ( 4 inch loop with Hem of silnylon sandwiched in between), and I have also just
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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            I have used 7/8 inch wide grosgrain ribbon, attached the way Dave mentioned ( 4 inch loop with Hem of silnylon sandwiched in between), and I have also just held the ends of the grosgrain ribbon loop together and stiched it to one side of the silnylon. I conducted a couple of crude pull tests by attaching a loop on either end of a hemmed strip of silnylon, with one loop sewn using the sandwich construction, and the other loop sewn just on one side of the fabric strip. I then grabbed each loop and proceeded to pull the strip many times until I turned purple (stretching it over my knee), and neither loop failed. How does this relate to real world conditions ? Who knows, but I can tell you I have confidence in both methods. I used two bar tacks about an eighth of an inch apart for all of my loops, and have had several tarps of different sizes pitched in various conditions for days at a time, with no sign of failure.
             
            In constructing my tarps, I end up with a rolled hem about 1/2 to 5/8 of an inch wide, which gives me a triple thickness of material to attach the loops to. This seems plenty strong so far.
             
            Chet
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dave Womble [mailto:dpwomble@...]
            Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 10:53 AM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: reinforcements at the tie-outs?

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "rambler4466"
            <rambler4466@h...> wrote:
            > Ed Speer's tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at any
            of
            > the tie-outs even the ridge line.  Aren't they important?  Also,
            tie-
            > outs whose ends are sewn side-by-side with an added twist are
            better
            > for inserting stakes as well as tie-outs.  Tie-outs added by sewing
            > the ends one atop the other, need to be twisted if a sake is used. 
            > Adding gormets solves that issue.  What about reinforcements??

            Rambler,

            I used scrap pieces of silnylon, doubled over, as reinforcement for
            the tieouts.  I used 3/4" or 1" grosgrain ribbon for the tieouts. 

            I think many attachment approaches will work okay as long as you
            understand the failure mechanisms and take them into account.  I look
            at the reinforcement issue as primarily a way of spreading out the
            needle holes that are taking most of the stress from the tieouts and
            secondarily as a way of getting more of the silnylon fabric sharing
            the stress at the tieout attachment points. 

            I have not had a problem just sewing 4 inch pieces of grosgrain
            ribbon in a loop such that the reinforced tarp material is sandwiched
            in between.  The grosgrain ribbon seems stiff enough to seperate
            easily when I want to insert a stake or cord.  I have had a problem
            before on the door attachment ribbons with a Silshelter and have it
            with some attachment ribbons I use on a closed cell foam pad and wish
            they had the twist you mentioned; it can be frustrating, especially
            when your hands are cold and/or wet.  It is most likely a function of
            both the stiffness of the ribbon and the length of the loop.  A twist
            is probably more functional and if a twist makes you happy, then use
            it, it just takes a more sewing and a tad more ribbon.

            I don't like gromments in liu of ribbon, my first silnylon tarp had
            grommets and I didn't particularly like them.  Silnylon is very
            slippery and I was always worried they would fail if I put much
            stress on them.

            Youngblood


          • rambler4466
            ... mentioned ... have also ... stiched it to ... by ... one loop ... on one ... to pull the ... knee), and ... conditions ? Who ... used two bar ... have had
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Chet Clocksin"
              <cclocksin@b...> wrote:
              > I have used 7/8 inch wide grosgrain ribbon, attached the way Dave
              mentioned
              > ( 4 inch loop with Hem of silnylon sandwiched in between), and I
              have also
              > just held the ends of the grosgrain ribbon loop together and
              stiched it to
              > one side of the silnylon. I conducted a couple of crude pull tests
              by
              > attaching a loop on either end of a hemmed strip of silnylon, with
              one loop
              > sewn using the sandwich construction, and the other loop sewn just
              on one
              > side of the fabric strip. I then grabbed each loop and proceeded
              to pull the
              > strip many times until I turned purple (stretching it over my
              knee), and
              > neither loop failed. How does this relate to real world
              conditions ? Who
              > knows, but I can tell you I have confidence in both methods. I
              used two bar
              > tacks about an eighth of an inch apart for all of my loops, and
              have had
              > several tarps of different sizes pitched in various conditions for
              days at a
              > time, with no sign of failure.
              >
              > In constructing my tarps, I end up with a rolled hem about 1/2 to
              5/8 of an
              > inch wide, which gives me a triple thickness of material to attach
              the loops
              > to. This seems plenty strong so far.
              >
              > Chet
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Dave Womble [mailto:dpwomble@y...]
              > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 10:53 AM
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: reinforcements at the tie-outs?
              >
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "rambler4466"
              > <rambler4466@h...> wrote:
              > > Ed Speer's tarp design does not call for any reinforcement at
              any
              > of
              > > the tie-outs even the ridge line. Aren't they important?
              Also,
              > tie-
              > > outs whose ends are sewn side-by-side with an added twist are
              > better
              > > for inserting stakes as well as tie-outs. Tie-outs added by
              sewing
              > > the ends one atop the other, need to be twisted if a sake is
              used.
              > > Adding gormets solves that issue. What about reinforcements??
              >
              > Rambler,
              >
              > I used scrap pieces of silnylon, doubled over, as reinforcement
              for
              > the tieouts. I used 3/4" or 1" grosgrain ribbon for the tieouts.
              >
              > I think many attachment approaches will work okay as long as you
              > understand the failure mechanisms and take them into account. I
              look
              > at the reinforcement issue as primarily a way of spreading out
              the
              > needle holes that are taking most of the stress from the tieouts
              and
              > secondarily as a way of getting more of the silnylon fabric
              sharing
              > the stress at the tieout attachment points.
              >
              > I have not had a problem just sewing 4 inch pieces of grosgrain
              > ribbon in a loop such that the reinforced tarp material is
              sandwiched
              > in between. The grosgrain ribbon seems stiff enough to seperate
              > easily when I want to insert a stake or cord. I have had a
              problem
              > before on the door attachment ribbons with a Silshelter and have
              it
              > with some attachment ribbons I use on a closed cell foam pad and
              wish
              > they had the twist you mentioned; it can be frustrating,
              especially
              > when your hands are cold and/or wet. It is most likely a
              function of
              > both the stiffness of the ribbon and the length of the loop. A
              twist
              > is probably more functional and if a twist makes you happy, then
              use
              > it, it just takes a more sewing and a tad more ribbon.
              >
              > I don't like gromments in liu of ribbon, my first silnylon tarp
              had
              > grommets and I didn't particularly like them. Silnylon is very
              > slippery and I was always worried they would fail if I put much
              > stress on them.
              >
              > Youngblood
              >
              >
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            • rambler4466
              ... book on tarps suggests a triangel of silnylon, starting with a rectangle 7 x 3 1/2 , cutting it into a isoceles (2 sides of equal length) triangle. He
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 11, 2004
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "rambler4466"
                <rambler4466@h...> wrote:
                > > Thanks for your suggestions and help, Dave et al. Ray Jardin's
                book on tarps suggests a triangel of silnylon, starting with a
                rectangle 7" x 3 1/2>", cutting it into a isoceles (2 sides of equal
                length) triangle. He hems the two sides, but not the 7" base. He
                then sews the apex into the ridge line seam and down along the
                sides. He does this before he hems the outer edges. Thus, when he
                does hem the edge, the bottom of his reinforcement patch is folded
                then stitched into the hem as the hem itself is stitched. He also
                reinforces the patch by sewing more lines along the ridge line.
                (the ridge line seam runs down the middle of his tarp set up)> Oware
                uses similar reinforcements. Rats, I was hoping to get away with
                less sewing! BTW The Speer hammock is easy to make! Thanks
                Ed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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