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LiteHammock is born

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  • Risk
    I built the hammock described earlier this week under the message titled New Hammock Design. It feels good, looks good, and I think it will work. I will sleep
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 23, 2004
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      I built the hammock described earlier this week under the message
      titled New Hammock Design.

      It feels good, looks good, and I think it will work. I will sleep out
      in it tonight.

      The inside panel is pretty slack when getting in. Once I am laying
      down, I roll just a little to be able to pull the slack from under me.
      The overlap pad acts like it will stay in position very well.

      I have posted a picture in my Flyfisher folder here... in that
      picture, the bug net is outside the hammock tubes. An hour later, I
      put it inside and it works better there.

      Well, off to bed early tonight. I plan a 630 walk with a friend
      tomorrow AM.

      Rick
    • m0an
      Risk, I ve been thinking about building your quarterweight with a single layer bottom for a while now, glad to see your yet again doing my R&D for me ;) Was
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 25, 2004
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        Risk,

        I've been thinking about building your quarterweight with a single
        layer bottom for a while now, glad to see your yet again doing my R&D
        for me ;)

        Was wondering how the 1.9oz has been treating you..... I currently
        weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 130lbs and that will melt to
        115 or below once I start hiking more... I've been thinking of using a
        single layer of 1.1oz, do you think I could get away with it since I
        am so small?

        Also, I see your using a single width of 1.1 for your tarp, is
        60inches enough width for you to get the edges below the bottom of
        your hammock? Is it wide enough to use as a taco shell to go
        underneath and around the hammock when its cold?


        and an idea for your pad pocket... do you really need 4ft to stabalize
        the pad inside? wouldnt a 4ftx1ft pocket that would hold the very
        bottom of the pad keep it from moving around too much?

        - alex
      • Risk
        ... I don t have any experience with a single layer of 1.1 oz. I weigh 200 lb. Ed is a little lighter than I am, maybe someplace inbetween us or closer to
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 25, 2004
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "m0an" <ratdog@h...> wrote:
          > Risk,
          >
          > I've been thinking about building your quarterweight with a single
          > layer bottom for a while now, glad to see your yet again doing my R&D
          > for me ;)
          >
          > Was wondering how the 1.9oz has been treating you..... I currently
          > weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 130lbs and that will melt to
          > 115 or below once I start hiking more... I've been thinking of using a
          > single layer of 1.1oz, do you think I could get away with it since I
          > am so small?

          I don't have any experience with a single layer of 1.1 oz. I weigh
          200 lb. Ed is a little lighter than I am, maybe someplace inbetween
          us or closer to you. He says that the 1.1 will eventually fail.
          >
          > Also, I see your using a single width of 1.1 for your tarp, is
          > 60inches enough width for you to get the edges below the bottom of
          > your hammock? Is it wide enough to use as a taco shell to go
          > underneath and around the hammock when its cold?

          Of course the tarp is 1.3 oz silnylon... 5 feet is plenty wide for me
          to go through thunderstorms with big wind. For such nights, I set the
          ridgeline and the hammock straps up at the same height. The side of
          the tarp toward the wind ends up pushing against the side of my
          hammock, but the rain goes under it.

          Ray's Garlington Insulator is standard 5 feet wide. So it is plenty
          wide. I've not used the GI for about a year... I don't believe I
          have used it since I began cutting my hammocks to 4 feet wide.
          >
          >
          > and an idea for your pad pocket... do you really need 4ft to stabalize
          > the pad inside? wouldnt a 4ftx1ft pocket that would hold the very
          > bottom of the pad keep it from moving around too much?

          The main problem I have with the pads is not moving the long direction
          in the hammock, but the short way. They pop out from under me. The
          cloth I am using now does two things:
          - keeps the pad from popping out the side
          - more importantly, it reduces my push on the pad from sticking to my
          clothes. This allows it to stay in place.

          Rick
        • neptuneuu
          I ve been curious about your latest design, and of course thinking of copying everything you ve done when you have it perfected. (I really appreciate all the
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 29, 2004
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            I've been curious about your latest design, and of course thinking of
            copying everything you've done when you have it perfected. (I really
            appreciate all the invention you do with these designs and your very
            generous sharing of information) I was suprised to see your latest
            design going with an inside-the-hammock pad rather than an outside
            insulator concept. It seems to me (I have a HH Explorer UL Asym and
            a Scout, but less than a dozen nights of use; I definitely defer to
            the master) that the major advantage of the hammock is that the
            insulation under the sleeper does not need to be compressed as it
            does with ground-sleeping. Since the hammock itself provides the
            comfort factor by suspending the sleeper, the under-insulation need
            only provide the insulation function rather than both insulation and
            padding from the cold-hard ground, as a pad on the ground is required
            to do. By using a pad inside the hammock, the insulation properties
            of that material are reduced by compressing it and the material
            itself is less than ideal from a insulation/weight consideration. So
            why a pad fixed inside the hammock rather than an underquilt? If you
            wanted a pad along for other reasons, say for occasions when ground
            sleeping was necessary, why not attach it below the hammock bottom so
            the insulation is not compressed? I would think that would make
            keeping the pad in place much easier when you move around. As a
            neophyte hanger, I'm probably missing something. I'll await that
            palm hitting the forehead moment when you explain the probably
            obvious. Thanks again for all your contributions to the hammocking
            comunity.

            Rick in FL
            > The main problem I have with the pads is not moving the long
            direction
            > in the hammock, but the short way. They pop out from under me. The
            > cloth I am using now does two things:
            > - keeps the pad from popping out the side
            > - more importantly, it reduces my push on the pad from sticking to
            my
            > clothes. This allows it to stay in place.
            >
            > Rick
          • ra1@imrisk.com
            Quoting neptuneuu : Hi Rick in FL, ... I have played with the outside insulation and come up with what I think is a good solution in
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 29, 2004
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              Quoting neptuneuu <neptunebeach@...>:

              Hi Rick in FL,

              > I was suprised to see your latest
              > design going with an inside-the-hammock pad rather than an outside
              > insulator concept.

              I have played with the outside insulation and come up with what I think is a
              good solution in the WarmHammock. However, it is a bulky solution, and not all
              that light. In addition, I use a pack which requires a pad as part of its
              support. And further, having a pad makes the occasional use of a floor,
              shelter, or other surface more usable for sleeping.

              I do have further work to do with down insulation. I really need to get back to
              that sometime soon.

              However, a pad is easy, cheap, available, and warm. It is more easily used by
              most people. So I continue to explore pad based concepts.

              If you
              > wanted a pad along for other reasons, say for occasions when ground
              > sleeping was necessary, why not attach it below the hammock bottom so
              > the insulation is not compressed?

              The answer here is simple. The pad has to be against me to keep me warm. If a
              layer of air can blow or move between me and the pad, almost all the effect of
              the pad is lost. I did try putting a pad in the open space of a Garlington
              Insulator, and had no additional heat savings at all. I do not believe there is
              a practical way to use a pad for insulation outside the hammock.

              This same thing is true for underquilts. Unless an air space between the
              hammock and quilt is removed, the utility of the underquilt is considerably
              reduced. If cold air can actually blow into the space, then a lot of heat is lost.

              There is advantage in having a bag like the Garlington Insulator or the
              TravelPod around other layers of insulation, but I have found that when the
              first layer is not essentailly against my skin I loose a lot of heat.

              Rick
            • neptunebeach
              So if the insulation has to be absolutely up against you, (sound of hand hitting forehead) the separate and removable underquilts will be fairly inefficient
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 30, 2004
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                So if the insulation has to be absolutely up against you, (sound of hand
                hitting forehead) the separate and removable underquilts will be fairly
                inefficient since they are difficult to suspend hard up against the bottom
                of the hammock. The only way to make an efficient insulated hammock is for
                the hammock to BE the lower part of the sleeping bag. How about attaching
                (sewing) a set of differential cut baffles directly to the weight-bearing
                surface of the hammock, with the second layer suspended below that and your
                favorite insulation material filling the void. I would think that would
                keep the insulation uniformly around you while using minimal extra material
                to provide the insulation effect. You would essentially have a built-in
                lower half of a sleeping bag as part of your hammock, as you did with your
                warm hammock, but using lighter weight materials and more complete coverage.
                The outermost material would have to be fairly wind resistant as well, like
                the top of a bivy .The top insulation layer should only require the top half
                of a sleeping bag, a quilt.

                I'm guessing you've already thought of all that. Thanks for the opportunity
                to catch up with you.

                Rick in FL
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <ra1@...>
                To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: LiteHammock is born


                > Quoting neptuneuu <neptunebeach@...>:
                >
                > Hi Rick in FL,
                >
                > > I was suprised to see your latest
                > > design going with an inside-the-hammock pad rather than an outside
                > > insulator concept.
                >
                > I have played with the outside insulation and come up with what I think is
                a
                > good solution in the WarmHammock. However, it is a bulky solution, and
                not all
                > that light. In addition, I use a pack which requires a pad as part of its
                > support. And further, having a pad makes the occasional use of a floor,
                > shelter, or other surface more usable for sleeping.
                >
                > I do have further work to do with down insulation. I really need to get
                back to
                > that sometime soon.
                >
                > However, a pad is easy, cheap, available, and warm. It is more easily
                used by
                > most people. So I continue to explore pad based concepts.
                >
                > If you
                > > wanted a pad along for other reasons, say for occasions when ground
                > > sleeping was necessary, why not attach it below the hammock bottom so
                > > the insulation is not compressed?
                >
                > The answer here is simple. The pad has to be against me to keep me warm.
                If a
                > layer of air can blow or move between me and the pad, almost all the
                effect of
                > the pad is lost. I did try putting a pad in the open space of a
                Garlington
                > Insulator, and had no additional heat savings at all. I do not believe
                there is
                > a practical way to use a pad for insulation outside the hammock.
                >
                > This same thing is true for underquilts. Unless an air space between the
                > hammock and quilt is removed, the utility of the underquilt is
                considerably
                > reduced. If cold air can actually blow into the space, then a lot of heat
                is lost.
                >
                > There is advantage in having a bag like the Garlington Insulator or the
                > TravelPod around other layers of insulation, but I have found that when
                the
                > first layer is not essentailly against my skin I loose a lot of heat.
                >
                > Rick
              • Rick
                ... LOL... Well said Rick... See: http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/warmhammock.htm Rick in Ohio
                Message 7 of 7 , May 1, 2004
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                  neptunebeach wrote:

                  >So if the insulation has to be absolutely up against you, (sound of hand
                  >hitting forehead) the separate and removable underquilts will be fairly
                  >inefficient since they are difficult to suspend hard up against the bottom
                  >of the hammock. The only way to make an efficient insulated hammock is for
                  >the hammock to BE the lower part of the sleeping bag. How about attaching
                  >(sewing) a set of differential cut baffles directly to the weight-bearing
                  >surface of the hammock, with the second layer suspended below that and your
                  >favorite insulation material filling the void. I would think that would
                  >keep the insulation uniformly around you while using minimal extra material
                  >to provide the insulation effect. You would essentially have a built-in
                  >lower half of a sleeping bag as part of your hammock, as you did with your
                  >warm hammock, but using lighter weight materials and more complete coverage.
                  >The outermost material would have to be fairly wind resistant as well, like
                  >the top of a bivy .The top insulation layer should only require the top half
                  >of a sleeping bag, a quilt.
                  >
                  >I'm guessing you've already thought of all that. Thanks for the opportunity
                  >to catch up with you.
                  >
                  >Hi Rick in FL,
                  >
                  >

                  LOL... Well said Rick...

                  See: http://www.imrisk.com/hammock/warmhammock.htm

                  Rick in Ohio
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