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Warmth: Foam Pad vs. Down/Primaloft

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  • matthulbert
    I ve read about R-value comparisons, but I never paid much attention because I m a designer and have spent most of my life avoiding complex math whenever
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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      I've read about R-value comparisons, but I never paid much attention
      because I'm a designer and have spent most of my life avoiding complex
      math whenever possible!

      I'm not sure if the R-value would help in this case, but my question
      is this:

      Would ~1 lb of 3/8" foam (let's say 1.5-2 blue target pads) be
      equivelent to a similar sized quilt of 1.3" primaloft (which also will
      weigh about a pound)?

      Which one would be warmer under my hammock?

      Which one would be easier to pack and carry?

      Foam seems like a hassle to carry and have in the hammock, but I guess
      it really isn't that bad.

      I keep coming up with things to make to put in my travelpod (which I
      am going to make this week). It seems like the 1.3" thick quilt would
      be warmer and easier to carry. I'd rather not carry both!

      I'm looking to be warm in temps around 30*.

      Thanks!
      Matt
    • Chet Clocksin
      I am no engineer, and also no expert regarding insulation. However, in my own observations using a goose down bag aroung the hammock, (like a peapod), and also
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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        I am no engineer, and also no expert regarding insulation. However, in my own observations using a goose down bag aroung the hammock, (like a peapod), and also having used several different sizes / types of foam pad as insulation, here is my 2 cents: You will want to carry BOTH an underquilt (or peapod), and at least a thin foam pad. This seems to me to be the most economical solution in terms of cost, weight, and bulk. I am sure you could probably pile enough goose down / primaloft under and around you to do the job, but at a pretty steep price (cost), and even then you must be sure that you do not compress the insulation or get it wet, and it must be almost windproof. On the other hand, if you just used foam pads, you'll have to make sure you have enough thickness on the bottom AND enough width at the shoulders to keep warm, which comes at a pretty steep bulk penalty.  By combining a quilt / peapod with a thin foam pad, you have the best of best of both worlds, and a very flexible system.
         
        Again, just my perspective.
         
        Chet
        -----Original Message-----
        From: matthulbert [mailto:ms@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:18 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Warmth: Foam Pad vs. Down/Primaloft

        I've read about R-value comparisons, but I never paid much attention
        because I'm a designer and have spent most of my life avoiding complex
        math whenever possible!

        I'm not sure if the R-value would help in this case, but my question
        is this:

        Would ~1 lb of 3/8" foam (let's say 1.5-2 blue target pads) be
        equivelent to a similar sized quilt of 1.3" primaloft (which also will
        weigh about a pound)?

        Which one would be warmer under my hammock?

        Which one would be easier to pack and carry?

        Foam seems like a hassle to carry and have in the hammock, but I guess
        it really isn't that bad.

        I keep coming up with things to make to put in my travelpod (which I
        am going to make this week). It seems like the 1.3" thick quilt would
        be warmer and easier to carry. I'd rather not carry both!

        I'm looking to be warm in temps around 30*.

        Thanks!
        Matt

      • Ray Garlington
        foam is a relatively heavy insulator. It really is hard to beat down, you just need to keep it dry. On the other hand, a piece of foam is nice to have if you
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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          foam is a relatively heavy insulator. It really is hard to beat
          down, you just need to keep it dry. On the other hand, a piece of
          foam is nice to have if you MUST sleep on the ground.

          With the Speer-sized tarp keeping the down dry is pretty easy. I
          currently am using a down sleeping bag and a down insulator
          underneath held in place using a GI shell. this configuration is
          good to very low temps. Unfortunately, I also plan to carry a small
          foam pad for ground sleeping.

          In case you are not sold on down, go with the primaloft if you need
          more warmth than a solid pad can provide (i'll guess about 40*F?).





          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "matthulbert" <ms@u...> wrote:
          > I've read about R-value comparisons, but I never paid much
          attention
          > because I'm a designer and have spent most of my life avoiding
          complex
          > math whenever possible!
          >
          > I'm not sure if the R-value would help in this case, but my
          question
          > is this:
          >
          > Would ~1 lb of 3/8" foam (let's say 1.5-2 blue target pads) be
          > equivelent to a similar sized quilt of 1.3" primaloft (which also
          will
          > weigh about a pound)?
          >
          > Which one would be warmer under my hammock?
          >
          > Which one would be easier to pack and carry?
          >
          > Foam seems like a hassle to carry and have in the hammock, but I
          guess
          > it really isn't that bad.
          >
          > I keep coming up with things to make to put in my travelpod (which
          I
          > am going to make this week). It seems like the 1.3" thick quilt
          would
          > be warmer and easier to carry. I'd rather not carry both!
          >
          > I'm looking to be warm in temps around 30*.
          >
          > Thanks!
          > Matt
        • matthulbert
          Thanks for the comments guys. I m sold on down, but if I make this quilt it will be primaloft for cost and simple construction reasons. I might buy one of
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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            Thanks for the comments guys.

            I'm "sold" on down, but if I make this quilt it will be primaloft for
            cost and simple construction reasons. I might buy one of Ed's down
            quilts instead, though. But Ed's down quilts are sewn-through and if I
            make a primaloft quilt I will quilt it, possibly making it warmer
            (we'll have to see). The weight will be similar to down in this case,
            and I can make it for less than $40 in a few hours.

            I'm going to make a down quilt in a month or so, but I don't think I
            want to make more than one down thing! I have been planning the
            ultimate quilt for a few weeks and I think I have my plans figured out.

            The pad is a good idea in case I have to sleep on the ground. I could
            bring a 1/2 target pad (36x36) for that, or maybe a full one.



            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
            <rgarling@y...> wrote:
            > foam is a relatively heavy insulator. It really is hard to beat
            > down, you just need to keep it dry. On the other hand, a piece of
            > foam is nice to have if you MUST sleep on the ground.
            >
            > With the Speer-sized tarp keeping the down dry is pretty easy. I
            > currently am using a down sleeping bag and a down insulator
            > underneath held in place using a GI shell. this configuration is
            > good to very low temps. Unfortunately, I also plan to carry a small
            > foam pad for ground sleeping.
            >
            > In case you are not sold on down, go with the primaloft if you need
            > more warmth than a solid pad can provide (i'll guess about 40*F?).
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "matthulbert" <ms@u...> wrote:
            > > I've read about R-value comparisons, but I never paid much
            > attention
            > > because I'm a designer and have spent most of my life avoiding
            > complex
            > > math whenever possible!
            > >
            > > I'm not sure if the R-value would help in this case, but my
            > question
            > > is this:
            > >
            > > Would ~1 lb of 3/8" foam (let's say 1.5-2 blue target pads) be
            > > equivelent to a similar sized quilt of 1.3" primaloft (which also
            > will
            > > weigh about a pound)?
            > >
            > > Which one would be warmer under my hammock?
            > >
            > > Which one would be easier to pack and carry?
            > >
            > > Foam seems like a hassle to carry and have in the hammock, but I
            > guess
            > > it really isn't that bad.
            > >
            > > I keep coming up with things to make to put in my travelpod (which
            > I
            > > am going to make this week). It seems like the 1.3" thick quilt
            > would
            > > be warmer and easier to carry. I'd rather not carry both!
            > >
            > > I'm looking to be warm in temps around 30*.
            > >
            > > Thanks!
            > > Matt
          • Francois
            I don t have a huge experience in winter camping, but I spent a few days laying in my hammock on my balcony this spring and used only a foam pad. I use an 8
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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              I don't have a huge experience in winter camping, but I spent a few
              days laying in my hammock on my balcony this spring and used only a
              foam pad. I use an 8 section z-rest (8oz), witch i need anyway for
              my GV4 pack and a 20F down bag, slept well up to 25F. The only part
              that got cold was my feet, so I used my primaloft coat for extra
              insulation. I'm curious about that underquilt thing though, might
              try it!
              -franc
            • David Chinell
              In all the discussions about R-values and weight and density and so on, don t forget that peapods and underquilts let you experience the hammock fabric by
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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                In all the discussions about R-values and weight and density
                and so on, don't forget that peapods and underquilts let you
                experience the hammock fabric by itself. The unrestrained
                hammock seems to support you more luxuriously, more
                languidly. This benefit is difficult to quantify, but is of
                real value to me.

                Bear
              • matthulbert
                That s where I m at. If there s a way I can leave the pad at home, I d like to. I need to do some experiementing this spring. Next thing you know Shane is
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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                  That's where I'm at. If there's a way I can leave the pad at home, I'd
                  like to. I need to do some experiementing this spring.

                  Next thing you know Shane is going to chip in about hammocking 'au
                  natuale'!

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell" <dchinell@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > In all the discussions about R-values and weight and density
                  > and so on, don't forget that peapods and underquilts let you
                  > experience the hammock fabric by itself. The unrestrained
                  > hammock seems to support you more luxuriously, more
                  > languidly. This benefit is difficult to quantify, but is of
                  > real value to me.
                  >
                  > Bear
                • chcoa
                  I have spent the winter reading all the emails on this subject in eager anticipation for my own trials next winter when I m not prego. In addition to the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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                    I have spent the winter reading all the emails on this subject in
                    eager anticipation for my own trials next winter when I'm not prego.
                    In addition to the benefit Bear mentioned I also think an underquilt
                    or peapod system is nice because you could always use either as a
                    around the camp blanket. A pad on the other hand is nice if you need
                    to sit on the ground (although with a hammock, why?) or if you have
                    to sleep on the ground. My conclusion so far is to own and know what
                    temps you can get to with both then use whatever system will work for
                    the trail you are going to be on. I like flexibility. :)

                    jamie in az

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                    > In all the discussions about R-values and weight and density
                    > and so on, don't forget that peapods and underquilts let you
                    > experience the hammock fabric by itself. The unrestrained
                    > hammock seems to support you more luxuriously, more
                    > languidly. This benefit is difficult to quantify, but is of
                    > real value to me.
                    >
                    > Bear
                  • amy
                    ... Last year I had several nights where I couldn t set up my hammock. Once was at Partnership shelter. I wanted the takeout food, and they don t allow
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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                      On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 06:05 PM, chcoa wrote:

                      > I have spent the winter reading all the emails on this subject in
                      > eager anticipation for my own trials next winter when I'm not prego.
                      > In addition to the benefit Bear mentioned I also think an underquilt
                      > or peapod system is nice because you could always use either as a
                      > around the camp blanket. A pad on the other hand is nice if you need
                      > to sit on the ground (although with a hammock, why?) or if you have
                      > to sleep on the ground. My conclusion so far is to own and know what
                      > temps you can get to with both then use whatever system will work for
                      > the trail you are going to be on. I like flexibility. :)
                      >
                      >

                      Last year I had several nights where I couldn't set up my hammock. Once
                      was at Partnership shelter. I wanted the takeout food, and they don't
                      allow
                      tenting or hammocking, so.. :)

                      Another time was in a rhododendron hell. I searched quite a while
                      trying
                      to find something to tie up to and ended up sleeping in the shelter. On
                      my lousy thin Z-rest. Nights like that make me wish I carried a
                      thermarest.

                      -amy
                    • Chuck Haak
                      Next thing you know Shane is going to chip in about hammocking au natuale ! I ve been lurking for a while but had to join in at this point. I ve tried the au
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 30, 2004
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                        Next thing you know Shane is going to chip in about hammocking 'au
                        natuale'!

                         

                        I’ve been lurking for a while but had to join in at this point. I’ve tried the ‘au natural’ approach, and temperatures permitting, it just doesn’t get any better. My homemade supplex ‘Speer’ is very comfortable against the skin and the lounging is idea.

                         

                        Pbmoo4

                         



                         
                         



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