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Re: Pad Insulation

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  • canoetrip_2000
    Hi Dave, thanks for your answer. I ordered the Lost Ranger +15, which is listed as semi-rectangular. I wanted that one so I could turn over within the bag and
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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      Hi Dave, thanks for your answer.
      I ordered the Lost Ranger +15, which is listed as semi-rectangular.
      I wanted that one so I could turn over within the bag and take
      advantage of the features I was excited about: the attached insert
      to stuff stuff for a pillow, and the pad sleeve. It has no bottom
      insulation, so I thought it would also be a good hammock bag.

      I bought that Insulmat from Trailtalker at the SO Ruck, because you
      all had the good sense to persuade me NOT to take my hammock on the
      AT in January without proper insulation, and I am glad I listened to
      you. This meant I would be sleeping on the ground, but not really
      sleeping if I had to use a Thermarest. (I cannot understand why so
      many people swear by those dang things!)

      However, the trade off meant I was cold anyway. There is some really
      nice hiking in Arkansas just a few hours from my parents' home in NW
      Louisiana and after we finish this with my Dad (he is gravely ill) I
      am going to collect my gear and go up there, before I get tied down
      to another job. The weather will determine whether I am going with
      my beloved HH, or with the Silshelter (which I have finally learned
      to put up properly), and sleeping on the G R O U N D.

      I have the mummy shaped Insulmat, but I sleep on my side, curled up
      and don't need below the knees padding. We'll see what the Big Agnes
      bag looks like. If it doesn't work I am sure REI will take it back.

      Also, thanks for the suggestion about getting Brian to make a
      replacement tarp for the HH. He is making me a HUGE one, which I
      have thoughts of trying to kind of wrap around the HH, the way you
      described to me when we met at the Ruck.

      Marsanne

      >
      > Big Anges (BA) makes two different shaped sleeping bags, one
      > rectangular and one mummy. Which model bag are you getting and is
      it
      > rectangular or mummy?
      >
      > The InsulMat that you have is made by Pacific Outdoors Equipment
      > (POE) and is their mummy shaped 2.5" thick Max-Compact model that
      is
      > an orally inflated pad and has no internal insulation.
      >
      > BA is now listing orally inflated pads WITH internal insulation (
      > http://www.bigagnes.com/str-rempads-aci.shtml ) and surely one of
      > these will fit the pocked of your BA bag and provide some
      insulation.
      > (They won't be available until mid-March) Will they be enough
      > insulation? I don't know, but if its rating is lower than the
      rating
      > of your bag, then it figures to be fine.
      >
    • Ralph Oborn
      Marsanne (not Ed) Sorry, it is a privlege to talk with you also. A sheaf would work nice, but the material would also work as well under or over any other pad
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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        Marsanne (not Ed) Sorry, it is a privlege to talk with you also.

        A sheaf would work nice, but the material would also work as well
        under or over any other pad at least for a dry run. The comfort and
        insulative effects are additive so no mater which order they were
        used doesn't matter except for convenience. I'm kinda big and I need
        the thickest pad I can find. I'm also a real light sleeper when I'm
        out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
        always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
        hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.) Before you sell the
        thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at home)

        Ralph


        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
        <firefly@e...> wrote:
        >
        > YOu make a good point about over inflating the Thermarests, but
        they
        > are just NOT an option for me. I am a side sleeper, and they are
        not
        > thick enough. I appreciate your suggestion, but I have tried
        > EVERYTHING to make Thermarests work for me, including scooping out
        a
        > hip trench. Just misery, period. I own 2 different Thermarests and
        > they are both for sale, CHEAP! So, you think the sheath would
        work
        > on the Insulmat, I am gathering?
        > Marsanne (not Ed)
        >
        >
        > > Ed, is a privlege an honor to make a suggestion to you.
        > >
        > > One reason many people do not sleep well on a thermarest is they
        > > over inflate it, then spend most the night trying not to roll
        off.
        > > After you lay on the thermarest and get situated, you should let
        > out
        > > as much air as possoble so the heavest part of your body (hips)
        > > almost touches the ground. With a 3 inch mattress this would
        > almost
        > > be like sleeping in a hammock. Any added foam pads would of
        course
        > > add compressability and insulative value. If all would not fit
        > into
        > > the sleeve, consider putting the closed cell foam outside on the
        > > tarp etc.
        > >
        > >
        > > Ralph
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
        > > <firefly@e...> wrote:
        > > > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the
        AT,
        > > not
        > > > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem
        > might
        > > > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the
        old
        > > > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now,
        > after
        > > > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
        > > > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
        > > >
        > > > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of
        you
        > > know
        > > > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the
        question
        > > > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
        > > > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They
        make
        > > one
        > > > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am
        only
        > > > spending necessary money.
        > > >
        > > > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I
        > got
        > > > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath
        > for
        > > > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the
        > > insulation
        > > > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that
        > > sleeve
        > > > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
        > > > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
        > > > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and
        > > have
        > > > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
        > > reason
        > > > I switched to hammocking.
        > > >
        > > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
        > > >
        > > > Marsanne
      • Ray Garlington
        ... ideally, you d put the best insulation near your body, particularly if part of your insulation is an air mattress. So, closed cell foam on top of the air
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
          <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
          > The comfort and
          > insulative effects are additive so no mater which order they were
          > used doesn't matter except for convenience.

          ideally, you'd put the best insulation near your body, particularly
          if part of your insulation is an air mattress. So, closed cell foam
          on top of the air mattress would feel warmer, even though opposite
          configuration has the same the total insulating value.
        • Debra Weisenstein
          That s a good suggestion, Ralph. The softer the Thermarest, the more comfort, as long as your hip doesn t hit the ground. Unfortunately, it s also a
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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            That's a good suggestion, Ralph. The softer the Thermarest,
            the more comfort, as long as your hip doesn't hit the ground.
            Unfortunately, it's also a compromise as far as insulation
            goes. The closer your hip is to the ground, the less insulation
            under it. I sometimes spend the night letting air out of
            the Thermarest for more comfort, then blowing more air back
            in for warmth. In cold weather, I'll always blow it up hard
            for the best insulation. A good compromise could be an air
            pad inflated softly for comfort and a closed cell foam pad for
            warmth. I'm thinking of carrying closed cell foam for hammock
            insulation and a 1/2 length air mat (maybe a child's inflatable
            pool mat) for ground sleeping comfort.

            DebW

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn" <polecatpop@y...>
            wrote:
            > Ed, is a privlege an honor to make a suggestion to you.
            >
            > One reason many people do not sleep well on a thermarest is they
            > over inflate it, then spend most the night trying not to roll off.
            > After you lay on the thermarest and get situated, you should let out
            > as much air as possoble so the heavest part of your body (hips)
            > almost touches the ground. With a 3 inch mattress this would almost
            > be like sleeping in a hammock. Any added foam pads would of course
            > add compressability and insulative value. If all would not fit into
            > the sleeve, consider putting the closed cell foam outside on the
            > tarp etc.
            >
            >
            > Ralph
            >
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
            > <firefly@e...> wrote:
            > > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the AT,
            > not
            > > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem might
            > > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the old
            > > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now, after
            > > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
            > > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
            > >
            > > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of you
            > know
            > > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the question
            > > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
            > > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They make
            > one
            > > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am only
            > > spending necessary money.
            > >
            > > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I got
            > > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath for
            > > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the
            > insulation
            > > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that
            > sleeve
            > > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
            > > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
            > > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and
            > have
            > > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
            > reason
            > > I switched to hammocking.
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
            > >
            > > Marsanne
          • canoetrip_2000
            Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the perfect solution, so I am
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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              Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a
              regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the
              perfect solution, so I am taking them off the market until I get a
              chance to try them. My bag is supposed to be arriving tomorrow, but
              I am 250 miles away. My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
              of years and passed away yesterday. He was actually an invalid, and
              he lived a long and, until the last few years, mostly very healthy
              life. He is the one who took me camping for the first time, and gave
              me my love of adventure. I am sure he will be watching over me from
              now on.
              Marsanne


              when I'm
              > out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
              > always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
              > hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.) Before you sell the
              > thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at
              home)
              >
            • B D
              Marsanne: We are sorry to hear about your loss. Your love of the outdoors and hammocking is a great tribute to him. My father was the same and I remember
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                Marsanne:  We are sorry to hear about your loss.  Your love of the outdoors and hammocking is a great tribute to him.  My father was the same and I remember many times heading out in the woods with him. You are on our thoughts.bd

                canoetrip_2000 <firefly@...> wrote:
                Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a
                regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the
                perfect solution, so I am taking them off the market until I get a
                chance to try them. My bag is supposed to be arriving tomorrow, but
                I am 250 miles away. My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
                of years and passed away yesterday. He was actually an invalid, and
                he lived a long and, until the last few years, mostly very healthy
                life. He is the one who took me camping for the first time, and gave
                me my love of adventure. I am sure he will be watching over me from
                now on.
                Marsanne


                when I'm
                > out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
                > always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
                > hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.)  Before you sell the
                > thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at
                home)
                >




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              • Ed Speer
                Sorry to hear about your Dad Marsanne. I have many similar memories of my Dad....Ed Moderator, Hammock Camping-L http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                  Sorry to hear about your Dad Marsanne. I have many similar memories of my
                  Dad....Ed
                  Moderator, Hammock Camping-L http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping

                  My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
                  > of years and passed away yesterday.
                  > Marsanne
                  >
                  >
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