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Re: Pad Insulation

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  • Dave Womble
    Marsanne, Big Anges (BA) makes two different shaped sleeping bags, one rectangular and one mummy. Which model bag are you getting and is it rectangular or
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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      Marsanne,

      Big Anges (BA) makes two different shaped sleeping bags, one
      rectangular and one mummy. Which model bag are you getting and is it
      rectangular or mummy?

      The InsulMat that you have is made by Pacific Outdoors Equipment
      (POE) and is their mummy shaped 2.5" thick Max-Compact model that is
      an orally inflated pad and has no internal insulation.

      BA is now listing orally inflated pads WITH internal insulation (
      http://www.bigagnes.com/str-rempads-aci.shtml ) and surely one of
      these will fit the pocked of your BA bag and provide some insulation.
      (They won't be available until mid-March) Will they be enough
      insulation? I don't know, but if its rating is lower than the rating
      of your bag, then it figures to be fine.

      POE is also listing an insulated version of the pad you have (
      http://pacoutdoor.com/index.cfm?
      action=product&productID=6&groupID=1&familyID=1 ) called the Max-
      Thermal that may already be available. If your BA bag is a regular
      size mummy bag then it will probably fit since both the POE and BA
      orally inflated pads are 2.5 inches thick.

      These orally inflated pads with insulation are a new thing as far as
      I know. And as it is with all new things, they are not a proven
      approach, so it is not a sure thing... I mean there could be problems
      that won't be recognised until they get enough use with them. Just
      something to consider before you spend your money.

      Youngblood


      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
      <firefly@e...> wrote:
      > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the AT,
      not
      > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem might
      > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the old
      > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now, after
      > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
      > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
      >
      > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of you
      know
      > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the question
      > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
      > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They make one
      > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am only
      > spending necessary money.
      >
      > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I got
      > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath for
      > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the insulation
      > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that sleeve
      > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
      > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
      > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and have
      > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
      reason
      > I switched to hammocking.
      >
      > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
      >
      > Marsanne
    • canoetrip_2000
      YOu make a good point about over inflating the Thermarests, but they are just NOT an option for me. I am a side sleeper, and they are not thick enough. I
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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        YOu make a good point about over inflating the Thermarests, but they
        are just NOT an option for me. I am a side sleeper, and they are not
        thick enough. I appreciate your suggestion, but I have tried
        EVERYTHING to make Thermarests work for me, including scooping out a
        hip trench. Just misery, period. I own 2 different Thermarests and
        they are both for sale, CHEAP! So, you think the sheath would work
        on the Insulmat, I am gathering?
        Marsanne (not Ed)


        > Ed, is a privlege an honor to make a suggestion to you.
        >
        > One reason many people do not sleep well on a thermarest is they
        > over inflate it, then spend most the night trying not to roll off.
        > After you lay on the thermarest and get situated, you should let
        out
        > as much air as possoble so the heavest part of your body (hips)
        > almost touches the ground. With a 3 inch mattress this would
        almost
        > be like sleeping in a hammock. Any added foam pads would of course
        > add compressability and insulative value. If all would not fit
        into
        > the sleeve, consider putting the closed cell foam outside on the
        > tarp etc.
        >
        >
        > Ralph
        >
        >
        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
        > <firefly@e...> wrote:
        > > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the AT,
        > not
        > > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem
        might
        > > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the old
        > > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now,
        after
        > > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
        > > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
        > >
        > > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of you
        > know
        > > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the question
        > > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
        > > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They make
        > one
        > > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am only
        > > spending necessary money.
        > >
        > > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I
        got
        > > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath
        for
        > > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the
        > insulation
        > > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that
        > sleeve
        > > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
        > > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
        > > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and
        > have
        > > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
        > reason
        > > I switched to hammocking.
        > >
        > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
        > >
        > > Marsanne
      • canoetrip_2000
        Hi Dave, thanks for your answer. I ordered the Lost Ranger +15, which is listed as semi-rectangular. I wanted that one so I could turn over within the bag and
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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          Hi Dave, thanks for your answer.
          I ordered the Lost Ranger +15, which is listed as semi-rectangular.
          I wanted that one so I could turn over within the bag and take
          advantage of the features I was excited about: the attached insert
          to stuff stuff for a pillow, and the pad sleeve. It has no bottom
          insulation, so I thought it would also be a good hammock bag.

          I bought that Insulmat from Trailtalker at the SO Ruck, because you
          all had the good sense to persuade me NOT to take my hammock on the
          AT in January without proper insulation, and I am glad I listened to
          you. This meant I would be sleeping on the ground, but not really
          sleeping if I had to use a Thermarest. (I cannot understand why so
          many people swear by those dang things!)

          However, the trade off meant I was cold anyway. There is some really
          nice hiking in Arkansas just a few hours from my parents' home in NW
          Louisiana and after we finish this with my Dad (he is gravely ill) I
          am going to collect my gear and go up there, before I get tied down
          to another job. The weather will determine whether I am going with
          my beloved HH, or with the Silshelter (which I have finally learned
          to put up properly), and sleeping on the G R O U N D.

          I have the mummy shaped Insulmat, but I sleep on my side, curled up
          and don't need below the knees padding. We'll see what the Big Agnes
          bag looks like. If it doesn't work I am sure REI will take it back.

          Also, thanks for the suggestion about getting Brian to make a
          replacement tarp for the HH. He is making me a HUGE one, which I
          have thoughts of trying to kind of wrap around the HH, the way you
          described to me when we met at the Ruck.

          Marsanne

          >
          > Big Anges (BA) makes two different shaped sleeping bags, one
          > rectangular and one mummy. Which model bag are you getting and is
          it
          > rectangular or mummy?
          >
          > The InsulMat that you have is made by Pacific Outdoors Equipment
          > (POE) and is their mummy shaped 2.5" thick Max-Compact model that
          is
          > an orally inflated pad and has no internal insulation.
          >
          > BA is now listing orally inflated pads WITH internal insulation (
          > http://www.bigagnes.com/str-rempads-aci.shtml ) and surely one of
          > these will fit the pocked of your BA bag and provide some
          insulation.
          > (They won't be available until mid-March) Will they be enough
          > insulation? I don't know, but if its rating is lower than the
          rating
          > of your bag, then it figures to be fine.
          >
        • Ralph Oborn
          Marsanne (not Ed) Sorry, it is a privlege to talk with you also. A sheaf would work nice, but the material would also work as well under or over any other pad
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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            Marsanne (not Ed) Sorry, it is a privlege to talk with you also.

            A sheaf would work nice, but the material would also work as well
            under or over any other pad at least for a dry run. The comfort and
            insulative effects are additive so no mater which order they were
            used doesn't matter except for convenience. I'm kinda big and I need
            the thickest pad I can find. I'm also a real light sleeper when I'm
            out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
            always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
            hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.) Before you sell the
            thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at home)

            Ralph


            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
            <firefly@e...> wrote:
            >
            > YOu make a good point about over inflating the Thermarests, but
            they
            > are just NOT an option for me. I am a side sleeper, and they are
            not
            > thick enough. I appreciate your suggestion, but I have tried
            > EVERYTHING to make Thermarests work for me, including scooping out
            a
            > hip trench. Just misery, period. I own 2 different Thermarests and
            > they are both for sale, CHEAP! So, you think the sheath would
            work
            > on the Insulmat, I am gathering?
            > Marsanne (not Ed)
            >
            >
            > > Ed, is a privlege an honor to make a suggestion to you.
            > >
            > > One reason many people do not sleep well on a thermarest is they
            > > over inflate it, then spend most the night trying not to roll
            off.
            > > After you lay on the thermarest and get situated, you should let
            > out
            > > as much air as possoble so the heavest part of your body (hips)
            > > almost touches the ground. With a 3 inch mattress this would
            > almost
            > > be like sleeping in a hammock. Any added foam pads would of
            course
            > > add compressability and insulative value. If all would not fit
            > into
            > > the sleeve, consider putting the closed cell foam outside on the
            > > tarp etc.
            > >
            > >
            > > Ralph
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
            > > <firefly@e...> wrote:
            > > > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the
            AT,
            > > not
            > > > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem
            > might
            > > > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the
            old
            > > > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now,
            > after
            > > > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
            > > > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
            > > >
            > > > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of
            you
            > > know
            > > > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the
            question
            > > > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
            > > > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They
            make
            > > one
            > > > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am
            only
            > > > spending necessary money.
            > > >
            > > > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I
            > got
            > > > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath
            > for
            > > > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the
            > > insulation
            > > > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that
            > > sleeve
            > > > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
            > > > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
            > > > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and
            > > have
            > > > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
            > > reason
            > > > I switched to hammocking.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
            > > >
            > > > Marsanne
          • Ray Garlington
            ... ideally, you d put the best insulation near your body, particularly if part of your insulation is an air mattress. So, closed cell foam on top of the air
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 9, 2004
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn"
              <polecatpop@y...> wrote:
              > The comfort and
              > insulative effects are additive so no mater which order they were
              > used doesn't matter except for convenience.

              ideally, you'd put the best insulation near your body, particularly
              if part of your insulation is an air mattress. So, closed cell foam
              on top of the air mattress would feel warmer, even though opposite
              configuration has the same the total insulating value.
            • Debra Weisenstein
              That s a good suggestion, Ralph. The softer the Thermarest, the more comfort, as long as your hip doesn t hit the ground. Unfortunately, it s also a
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                That's a good suggestion, Ralph. The softer the Thermarest,
                the more comfort, as long as your hip doesn't hit the ground.
                Unfortunately, it's also a compromise as far as insulation
                goes. The closer your hip is to the ground, the less insulation
                under it. I sometimes spend the night letting air out of
                the Thermarest for more comfort, then blowing more air back
                in for warmth. In cold weather, I'll always blow it up hard
                for the best insulation. A good compromise could be an air
                pad inflated softly for comfort and a closed cell foam pad for
                warmth. I'm thinking of carrying closed cell foam for hammock
                insulation and a 1/2 length air mat (maybe a child's inflatable
                pool mat) for ground sleeping comfort.

                DebW

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Oborn" <polecatpop@y...>
                wrote:
                > Ed, is a privlege an honor to make a suggestion to you.
                >
                > One reason many people do not sleep well on a thermarest is they
                > over inflate it, then spend most the night trying not to roll off.
                > After you lay on the thermarest and get situated, you should let out
                > as much air as possoble so the heavest part of your body (hips)
                > almost touches the ground. With a 3 inch mattress this would almost
                > be like sleeping in a hammock. Any added foam pads would of course
                > add compressability and insulative value. If all would not fit into
                > the sleeve, consider putting the closed cell foam outside on the
                > tarp etc.
                >
                >
                > Ralph
                >
                >
                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "canoetrip_2000"
                > <firefly@e...> wrote:
                > > After I did my post a few weeks ago about how I froze on the AT,
                > not
                > > in a hammock, in a durn Silshelter, someone said the problem might
                > > have been with the air mattress I was using, instead of the old
                > > sleeping bag. Smart aleck me, I assumed that was wrong. Now, after
                > > doing research on the insulating properties of the beloved air
                > > mattress, the InsulMat, I concede that was surely a factor.
                > >
                > > This is not directly about hammocking, but since so many of you
                > know
                > > much more than me about insulation, I wanted to ask the question
                > > here. I hammock when possible, but when not, I need a lot of
                > > padding. That's why I took the Insulmat on the trail. They make
                > one
                > > with down inside, but I do not have another job yet and am only
                > > spending necessary money.
                > >
                > > So I was wondering, in order to make the InsulMat warmer, if I got
                > > the thinnest closed cell foam I could find, and made a sheath for
                > > it. I have ordered a Big Agnes sleeping bag with all the
                > insulation
                > > on top, and a sleeve for attachment of a pad. I am sure that
                > sleeve
                > > is not big enough to handle a 3 inch mattress fully inflated,
                > > surrounded by a sheath of closed cell foam, but I could only
                > > partially inflate the mattress. I have several Thermarests and
                > have
                > > never had a good nights sleep on any of them. This is a major
                > reason
                > > I switched to hammocking.
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
                > >
                > > Marsanne
              • canoetrip_2000
                Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the perfect solution, so I am
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                  Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a
                  regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the
                  perfect solution, so I am taking them off the market until I get a
                  chance to try them. My bag is supposed to be arriving tomorrow, but
                  I am 250 miles away. My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
                  of years and passed away yesterday. He was actually an invalid, and
                  he lived a long and, until the last few years, mostly very healthy
                  life. He is the one who took me camping for the first time, and gave
                  me my love of adventure. I am sure he will be watching over me from
                  now on.
                  Marsanne


                  when I'm
                  > out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
                  > always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
                  > hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.) Before you sell the
                  > thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at
                  home)
                  >
                • B D
                  Marsanne: We are sorry to hear about your loss. Your love of the outdoors and hammocking is a great tribute to him. My father was the same and I remember
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                    Marsanne:  We are sorry to hear about your loss.  Your love of the outdoors and hammocking is a great tribute to him.  My father was the same and I remember many times heading out in the woods with him. You are on our thoughts.bd

                    canoetrip_2000 <firefly@...> wrote:
                    Stacking is a REALLY good idea, since I have a long thin one and a
                    regular one, and the Big Agnes bag has a sleeve. That might be the
                    perfect solution, so I am taking them off the market until I get a
                    chance to try them. My bag is supposed to be arriving tomorrow, but
                    I am 250 miles away. My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
                    of years and passed away yesterday. He was actually an invalid, and
                    he lived a long and, until the last few years, mostly very healthy
                    life. He is the one who took me camping for the first time, and gave
                    me my love of adventure. I am sure he will be watching over me from
                    now on.
                    Marsanne


                    when I'm
                    > out with my scouts (sometimes just the silence wakes me up). I
                    > always thought it was me, maybe it's the pad. (I just bought a
                    > hammock, haven't had a chance to use it yet.)  Before you sell the
                    > thermarests, you might want to sty stacking them. (try them at
                    home)
                    >




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                  • Ed Speer
                    Sorry to hear about your Dad Marsanne. I have many similar memories of my Dad....Ed Moderator, Hammock Camping-L http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 10, 2004
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                      Sorry to hear about your Dad Marsanne. I have many similar memories of my
                      Dad....Ed
                      Moderator, Hammock Camping-L http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping

                      My Dad has been in very bad health for a couple
                      > of years and passed away yesterday.
                      > Marsanne
                      >
                      >
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