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Air bladder for warmth?

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  • Sesa
    Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder work? I don t mean an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of an industrial air bladder, custom
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2004
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      Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder work? I don't mean
      an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of an industrial air
      bladder, custom made, if I could find a company to make an ultralight
      one. Thoughts?
    • Robert Moore
      I think Risk was doing some original work with this thought in his original taco application, but using garbage bags to contain the air...the advancement of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2004
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        I think Risk was doing some original work with this thought in his original taco application, but using garbage bags to contain the air...the advancement of the air mattress has been adressed commercially but with down fill by Exped and Warmlite...
        I think most of us felt the inflating process of the Warmlite DAM was too intense and have continued our focus on underquilts and pods for very cold use, tacos with inserted insulation for the moderate times. Next month we will be paddling the 10,000 Islands area and of course hammocking, just know that even there I will have an underquilt of one type or another.

        Sesa <atypical_genuis@...> wrote:
        Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder work?  I don't mean
        an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of an industrial air
        bladder, custom made, if I could find a company to make an ultralight
        one.  Thoughts?



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      • Ray Garlington
        yes, it works but you ll want to have some lightweight foam or other material inside your bag to keep the warmest air near your body. The main improvement you
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 7, 2004
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          yes, it works but you'll want to have some lightweight foam or other
          material inside your bag to keep the warmest air near your body. The
          main improvement you will experience with a custom made airbag over
          commercial air matresses is the custom unit will be much lighter
          since the under-hammock bag doesn't have to support any weight.

          However, trashbags are good enough for a week-long trip.

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sesa" <atypical_genuis@y...>
          wrote:
          > Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder work? I don't
          mean
          > an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of an industrial air
          > bladder, custom made, if I could find a company to make an
          ultralight
          > one. Thoughts?
        • ra1@imrisk.com
          Warmth groupies, I d like to take a page out of what Ray taught me on this and add: It is important, for the best protection from cold, to break up the dead
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 7, 2004
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            Warmth groupies,

            I'd like to take a page out of what Ray taught me on this and add:

            It is important, for the best protection from cold, to break up the dead air
            space into many small compartments. The insulation is best provided by layer
            upon layer of chambers. Inside each chamber there exists a convection current
            of air movement which tends to move heat across the chamber. The more layers of
            such chambers, the better the insulation.

            Down works to create a very large number of convection cells, though they are
            not air tight, they break up the convection currents into what amounts to this
            from a practical standpoint.

            Ray has used crumpled newspaper and space blankets for this purpose with good
            effect. I have recently begun using my tarp, crinkled up into the air space
            for the same reason.

            The difference between the DAM mattress and a regular beach air mattress, from
            the standpoint of insulation, is the down which fills the air mattress,
            improving the efficiency of the air space many, many fold.

            So a custom air bladder will work, but it will work much better if filled with
            something like down, fiber, foam, etc.

            It is also important to get the insulating chambers up close to the skin, at
            least making sure that no cold air can get between the insulation and the
            outside of the hammock. Foam pads do this well. Underquilts need some
            mechanism to seal their edges or (better) hold the quilt directly touching the
            hammock across its surface, without squeezing the insulation into a thin,
            useless layer.

            Rick


            Quoting Ray Garlington <rgarling@...>:

            > yes, it works but you'll want to have some lightweight foam or other
            > material inside your bag to keep the warmest air near your body. The
            > main improvement you will experience with a custom made airbag over
            > commercial air matresses is the custom unit will be much lighter
            > since the under-hammock bag doesn't have to support any weight.
            >
            > However, trashbags are good enough for a week-long trip.
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sesa" <atypical_genuis@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder work? I don't
            > mean
            > > an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of an industrial air
            > > bladder, custom made, if I could find a company to make an
            > ultralight
            > > one. Thoughts?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • thru_hike@yahoo.com
            Sounds like a potential application for Tyvek...? ... ===== A bad day of hiking is better than any good day at the office. __________________________________
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 7, 2004
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              Sounds like a potential application for Tyvek...?
              --- Ray Garlington <rgarling@...> wrote:
              > yes, it works but you'll want to have some
              > lightweight foam or other
              > material inside your bag to keep the warmest air
              > near your body. The
              > main improvement you will experience with a custom
              > made airbag over
              > commercial air matresses is the custom unit will be
              > much lighter
              > since the under-hammock bag doesn't have to support
              > any weight.
              >
              > However, trashbags are good enough for a week-long
              > trip.
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sesa"
              > <atypical_genuis@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Instead of a down underquilt, would an air bladder
              > work? I don't
              > mean
              > > an air mattress, I was thinking along the lines of
              > an industrial air
              > > bladder, custom made, if I could find a company to
              > make an
              > ultralight
              > > one. Thoughts?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


              =====
              A bad day of hiking is better than any good day at the office.




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            • jjoven_49
              ... The insulation is best provided by layer ... convection current ... more layers of ... Has anyone tried bubble wrap? I have a paddling buddy who uses it as
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 8, 2004
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                ra1@i... wrote:
                > Warmth groupies,
                The insulation is best provided by layer
                > upon layer of chambers. Inside each chamber there exists a
                convection current
                > of air movement which tends to move heat across the chamber. The
                more layers of
                > such chambers, the better the insulation.
                >

                Has anyone tried bubble wrap? I have a paddling buddy who uses it as
                a sleep pad on our canoe trips. Lightweight and inexpensive.
              • Coy
                No not bubble wrap. but refletix is just glorafied bubble wrap. probably a little benifit from the reflective surface and a little toughter than plain bubble
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 8, 2004
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                  No not bubble wrap. but refletix is just glorafied bubble wrap.
                  probably a little benifit from the reflective surface and a little
                  toughter than plain bubble wrap. My 2 year old reflectix pad is
                  starting to show lots of wear.

                  Coy Boy

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jjoven_49" <hoz49@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > ra1@i... wrote:
                  > > Warmth groupies,
                  > The insulation is best provided by layer
                  > > upon layer of chambers. Inside each chamber there exists a
                  > convection current
                  > > of air movement which tends to move heat across the chamber.
                  The
                  > more layers of
                  > > such chambers, the better the insulation.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Has anyone tried bubble wrap? I have a paddling buddy who uses it
                  as
                  > a sleep pad on our canoe trips. Lightweight and inexpensive.
                • Randy Saylor
                  ... a sleep pad on our canoe trips. Lightweight and inexpensive. I have been thinking along this line too. However bubble wrap big enough to secure on the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 8, 2004
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                    >Has anyone tried bubble wrap? I have a paddling buddy who uses it
                    as
                    a sleep pad on our canoe trips. Lightweight and inexpensive.

                    I have been thinking along this line too. However bubble wrap big enough to secure on the underside of the hammock would result in a huge volume for packing. A light weight plastic pad that could be blown up - like a lightweight version of a thermarest - that is purpose built for the underside of a hammock might have excellent insulating properties.
                     
                    It would have to either seamed into tubes or baffled so that it would maintain a flat profile. I bet nothing like this exists at the present time. I am not thinking this would be good enough for winter but it might be great for the shoulder seasons.
                     
                    Randy 
                     
                     
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