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Re: Hammock Camping Bottom Almost Quilt for HH...

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  • tcoug7 <tcoug7@aol.com>
    ... That s true, but as you know, heat is transferred by either conduction, convection or radiation. Actually in our instance, by all three simutaneously.
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 5, 2003
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "geoflyfisher
      <geoflyfisher@y...>" <geoflyfisher@y...> wrote:
      > Very well said as always! I think the improvement made by the
      > insulation is in the break-up of convection currents without adding
      > conduction paths.

      That's true, but as you know, heat is transferred by either
      conduction, convection or radiation. Actually in our instance, by
      all three simutaneously. But, by creating millions of 'cells' of
      dead air space, each one becomes more stable with regards to dynamic
      changes. The overall effect on a macroscopic view is an insulating
      layer. But, on a microscopic view, each little cell is doing it's
      own thing. Just like the fiberglass insulation in you house walls.
      If it was just to create a dead air space, then there would be no
      need for the 'pain-in-the-a@#-to-install' stuff. Rather, by creating
      millions of little dead air spaces, a much more stable layer is
      created - which translates into much greater resistance to changein
      temperature.

      PS - I'm for the vapor layer. Radiant heat loss is real. It may be
      least important, but we are really trying to capture all heat that's
      available - so we sleep better. In my tests, I feel it's made a
      difference.
    • debweisenstein <dweisens@aer.com>
      Ed, what about an easy modification of the PeaPod to add mitten hooks or toggles to the inside of the Peapod along the edges of the hammock so that the PeaPod
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 6, 2003
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        Ed, what about an easy modification of the PeaPod to add mitten
        hooks or toggles to the inside of the Peapod along the edges of the
        hammock so that the PeaPod could be left open but attached to the
        hammock in a way that it couldn't sag. This would mimick the
        underquilts people are designing for the Hennessey and provide
        more flexibility. Also, do you ever keep the PeaPod attached to
        your hammock and stuff the whole thing together? Or roll up the
        hammock with foam pad inside?

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
        > However, my limited experience
        > with large dead air spaces beheath my hammock is that they are
        > significantly colder than filling those spaces with insulation. In fact
        > it is often warmer to eliminate the large dead air space and relpace it
        > with a much thiner insulation. For instance, when my PeaPod sleeping
        > bag is kept open on the top, it can sag below the bottom of the hammock
        > and create a large dead air space there (6-10" deep). It can be
        > significantly warmer on my bottom to tuck up the PeaPod to elmininate
        > this dead air space and bring the 0.8"-thick PeaPod insulation right up
        > to the bottom of the hammock.
        >

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      • Ed Speer
        Good thinking Deb, but one can easily position the PeaPod the prevent this sag. Since the PeaPod and my hammock both have Velcro along the long edges, the
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 6, 2003
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          Good thinking Deb, but one can easily position the PeaPod the prevent this sag.  Since the PeaPod and my hammock both have Velcro along the long edges, the PeaPod can be Velcroed to one edge of the hammock and the other edge can be tucked inside the hammock far enought to eliminate the unwanted air space bleow.  Of course when the PePod is fully wrapped around the hammock, there is no botom sag anyway.
           
          And yes, I often keep the PeaPod and hammock together and stuff them together into my pack.  On a recent trip, my partner used the Moonbow Gearskin pack which easily allowed him to stuff the PeaPod, hammock, sleep pads, and sleeping bag all together into the pack at the same time--it was very simple and took only 1-2 minutes from take down to be fully packed!  Sure beats stuffing gear into tiny stuff bags on cold mornings!...Ed
          Ed, what about an easy modification of the PeaPod to add mitten
          hooks or toggles to the inside of the Peapod along the edges of the
          hammock so that the PeaPod could be left open but attached to the
          hammock in a way that it couldn't sag.  This would mimick the
          underquilts people are designing for the Hennessey and provide
          more flexibility.  Also, do you ever keep the PeaPod attached to
          your hammock and stuff the whole thing together?  Or roll up the
          hammock with foam pad inside?
        • geoflyfisher <geoflyfisher@yahoo.com>
          After my post yesterday... Thanks to all who responded with great ideas, I got an email off list pointing me to the Garlington insulator, a taco shell
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 6, 2003
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            After my post yesterday... Thanks to all who responded with great
            ideas, I got an email off list pointing me to the Garlington
            insulator, a "taco" shell hanging below the hammock. R. Garlington
            (first name unknown to me) has a site describing the contraption at:

            http://www.mindspring.com/~rgarling/Insulator.htm

            I built one last night, having a bit of silnylon on hand for a
            project I will not do, and hope to test it soon in our cold weather.

            Ed mentioned in his post that insulation is inefficient if a lot of
            sag exists between the hammock and the insulation. Great point, that
            I had forgotten. Since the warmth will be due to my body heating up
            the insulation area, a large space will take more energy to heat than
            a rather small space. (Vpor barrier warming methods are the ultamet
            end of this line of reasoning.) But having a couple inches of dead
            space can take less energy than having many inches of dead space...
            if there is little gradient across that dead space... ie if the space
            is not filled with many little spaces like down.

            The other problem is movement in the space. The more the space moves
            around, the more mixing occurs, and the more heat is lost by the
            enhanced convection.

            The Garlington insulator attempts to minimize this motion and a
            uniformly medium thick layer of dead space by sandwitching plastic
            gargage bags, partly inflated with air between the hammock and a
            silnylon shell.

            Well, its a great theory. And it is going to be cold tonight...
            maybe too cold at 10, but I may get a data point tonight or soon.

            Rick
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