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  • jjoven_49
    and mostly lurking to learn about hammock camping. Please excuse my ignorance and I hope I don t ruffle too many feathers with this observation. You good folks
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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      and mostly lurking to learn about hammock camping. Please excuse my
      ignorance and I hope I don't ruffle too many feathers with this
      observation.

      You good folks seem to be expending alot of effort to be able to use
      the hammock in cold temperatures. Pads, pods, under quilts, space
      blankets, bivy sacks... Have you considered it may not be worth the
      trouble?

      There is a very good reason indigenous peoples used the hammock in
      tropical climates only. I have heard of no natives using the hammock
      in cold climates. The Innuit the Ojibwe and Cree slept on the ground
      as I suppose the Laplanders also do.

      If you just want to meet a challenge, then that's a different thing.
      But there may come a time (November-March???) when you must resort to
      a thermarest, down bag and (Heaven forbid) sleep on the ground.
    • ra1@imrisk.com
      ... LOL! Well, as a confirmed cold weather hammock junkie, it might be worth while to speak to the issue. ... You bring up a good point. Once in a while, I
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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        Quoting jjoven_49:


        > You good folks seem to be expending alot of effort to be able to use
        > the hammock in cold temperatures. Pads, pods, under quilts, space
        > blankets, bivy sacks... Have you considered it may not be worth the
        > trouble?

        LOL! Well, as a confirmed cold weather hammock junkie, it might be worth while
        to speak to the issue.
        >

        > If you just want to meet a challenge, then that's a different thing.
        > But there may come a time (November-March???) when you must resort to
        > a thermarest, down bag and (Heaven forbid) sleep on the ground.

        You bring up a good point. Once in a while, I need to remember why I am working
        on cold weather hammock experiments and equipment.

        Part of it is the engineering challenge. Heaven help me, part of it is old
        fashoned "one-ups-man-ship". But the real interest is exploring the edges of
        the envelope because hammocks sleep so much better for me than the ground. And I
        *want* to be able to use the hammock all year for camping.

        For me to feel comfortable taking a hammock in the southern AT woods in October,
        I need to know from my personal experience that I can sleep comfortably at 30
        degrees, because it sometimes gets down that low. To take it with me in
        November or December, I need to know it works at 10 degrees. I need to know
        that I can carry what I need to do so in an ultralite mindset.

        I do have fun sharing my experience, mainly because others seem to find it
        interesting. Maybe they are trying similar things themselves and maybe I will
        learn something from them.

        Because of the fun we have been having, I now disagree (respectfully) that one
        must resort to a thermarest and sleep on the ground from November to March.
        Maybe that is true for a few weeks in January. I don't know yet. I do know
        that with an additional 8 ounces from my summer load, I can now spend
        comfortable nights in a hammock down to 21 degrees with 12mph winds gusting to
        18. I did last night. It is the coldest night we have had in Ohio so far this
        year.

        Personally, I *hate* sleeping on the ground in November and March-April. It
        rains so much! I really do not like sleeping on the ground in the rain. I
        worry about the tent floor. I worry about my sleeping bag getting wet. It
        feels so good to be a couple feet above the squishy mud.

        If we can push the barrier back to below 0 degrees then the whole year is open
        to hammock camping for the southern parts of the AT and I can feel comfortable
        that a hammock thru hike can work from beginning to end, regardless of how cold
        early March is on a particular year.

        My $.02 - It's an old engineering concept. Test at beyond the conditions I
        ever expect to use operationally.

        Rick
        >
      • jjoven_49
        Thanks Risk, that s the type of response I was looking for. No disrepect, insult or injury was meant by my original post. Inquiring minds simply want to know!
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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          Thanks Risk, that's the type of response I was looking for. No
          disrepect, insult or injury was meant by my original post. Inquiring
          minds simply want to know!
        • ra1@imrisk.com
          ... None taken. Occasionally it is good to step back and think about the why question again. BTW, I am going to post my observations from last night in a
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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            Quoting jjoven_49 <hoz49@...>:

            > Thanks Risk, that's the type of response I was looking for. No
            > disrepect, insult or injury was meant by my original post. Inquiring
            > minds simply want to know!
            >
            None taken. Occasionally it is good to step back and think about the "why"
            question again. BTW, I am going to post my observations from last night in a
            little later.

            Risk
          • Ed Speer
            Rick, any update on that Psolar balaclava you re testing? I couldn t wait any longer and ordered one for my upcoming winter hike; but how s it working for
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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              Rick, any update on that Psolar balaclava you're testing?  I couldn't wait any longer and ordered one for my upcoming winter hike; but how's it working for you?  I especially want to try it inside the PeaPod--I often close the PeaPod completely around me and over my head (>20F) , but of course this causes some condensation and wetting of the PeaPod directly above my face.  Hopefully the Psolar will stop or significattly reduce this condensation?  I'll be testing it myself next week, but am interested in your results...Ed
            • ra1@imrisk.com
              ... Ed, I just posted a note on last night s experiment. I have now slept in sub freezing temperatures about 4 nights with the balaclava. It works
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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                Quoting Ed Speer <info@...>:

                > Rick, any update on that Psolar balaclava you're testing? I couldn't wait
                > any longer and ordered one for my upcoming winter hike; but how's it working
                > for you? I especially want to try it inside the PeaPod--I often close the
                > PeaPod completely around me and over my head (>20F) , but of course this
                > causes some condensation and wetting of the PeaPod directly above my face.
                > Hopefully the Psolar will stop or significattly reduce this condensation?
                > I'll be testing it myself next week, but am interested in your results...Ed
                >


                Ed,

                I just posted a note on last night's experiment. I have now slept in sub
                freezing temperatures about 4 nights with the balaclava. It works wonderfully.
                No condensation that I could detect at all last night, even though I had the
                TravelPod completely closed for over 5 hours. I spend most the time with the
                balaclava pulled up over my nose, allowing me to nose breathe, and some time
                with it pulled up under my nose, which could contribute some to condensation if
                prolonged. I find, while hiking with glasses, that I have to wear it under my
                nose or I get the glasses steamed up.

                I am very interested in your experience.

                BTW, my initial review of the balaclava for BGT is here:

                http://tinyurl.com/xfeu

                Rick
              • Ed Speer
                Thanks again Rick...Ed [Ed] -----Original Message----- From: ra1@imrisk.com [mailto:ra1@imrisk.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:09 AM To:
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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                  Thanks again Rick...Ed

                  [Ed]  -----Original Message-----
                  From: ra1@... [mailto:ra1@...]
                  Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:09 AM
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Psolar balaclava

                  Quoting Ed Speer <info@...>:

                  > Rick, any update on that Psolar balaclava you're testing?  I couldn't wait
                  > any longer and ordered one for my upcoming winter hike; but how's it working
                  > for you?  I especially want to try it inside the PeaPod--I often close the
                  > PeaPod completely around me and over my head (>20F) , but of course this
                  > causes some condensation and wetting of the PeaPod directly above my face.
                  > Hopefully the Psolar will stop or significattly reduce this condensation?
                  > I'll be testing it myself next week, but am interested in your results...Ed
                  >


                  Ed,

                  I just posted a note on last night's experiment.  I have now slept in sub
                  freezing temperatures about 4 nights with the balaclava.  It works wonderfully.
                  No condensation that I could detect at all last night, even though I had the
                  TravelPod completely closed for over 5 hours.  I spend most the time with the
                  balaclava pulled up over my nose, allowing me to nose breathe, and some time
                  with it pulled up under my nose, which could contribute some to condensation if
                  prolonged.  I find, while hiking with glasses, that I have to wear it under my
                  nose or I get the glasses steamed up.

                  I am very interested in your experience.

                  BTW, my initial review of the balaclava for BGT is here:

                  http://tinyurl.com/xfeu

                  Rick


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                • chcoa
                  Well where s the fun in that? I m sure glad the Wright bros didn t think inside the box so much that they said, Well Wilber, you know maybe man is not ment
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 12, 2003
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                    Well where's the fun in that? I'm sure glad the Wright bros didn't
                    think inside the box so much that they said, "Well Wilber, you know
                    maybe man is not ment to fly, I mean afterall none of the people
                    before us could do it."

                    Jamie in AZ

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jjoven_49" <hoz49@h...> wrote:
                    > and mostly lurking to learn about hammock camping. Please excuse my
                    > ignorance and I hope I don't ruffle too many feathers with this
                    > observation.
                    >
                    > You good folks seem to be expending alot of effort to be able to
                    use
                    > the hammock in cold temperatures. Pads, pods, under quilts, space
                    > blankets, bivy sacks... Have you considered it may not be worth the
                    > trouble?
                    >
                    > There is a very good reason indigenous peoples used the hammock in
                    > tropical climates only. I have heard of no natives using the
                    hammock
                    > in cold climates. The Innuit the Ojibwe and Cree slept on the
                    ground
                    > as I suppose the Laplanders also do.
                    >
                    > If you just want to meet a challenge, then that's a different
                    thing.
                    > But there may come a time (November-March???) when you must resort
                    to
                    > a thermarest, down bag and (Heaven forbid) sleep on the ground.
                  • letmedangle
                    I can give two answers to this question, one practical and one philosophical. I live in the Pacific NW, where it s only a little cold, but very rainy. I like
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 21, 2003
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                      I can give two answers to this question, one practical and one philosophical.

                      I live in the Pacific NW, where it's only a little cold, but very rainy. I like being up off
                      the sodden ground and out of the puddles. To make this work requires insulation
                      under the hammock, since it's too cold without it. Thus my effort on my under-quilt.
                      (for which the link on Ed Speer's site is broken, courtesy ATT - I'll fix it RSN).

                      The philosophical answer is that some enthusiatic people expended a lot of effort to
                      make dome tents, bivy sacks, mummy bags, etc. That stuff didn't just fall from the
                      sky ready-made. We're pioneering a new form of sleep system for backpacking.
                      Someday you'll be able to buy a well designed hammock with a well designed under-
                      quilt that works very nicely in a specified temp range, just like with tents and bags.

                      I agree that there will be lower limits to the temp range for which a hammock makes
                      sense, but for the southerners and us NW-ers a little insulation can make the
                      hammock a superior solution for the temps we normally encounter.

                      Ed



                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jjoven_49" <hoz49@h...> wrote:
                      ......
                      > You good folks seem to be expending alot of effort to be able to use
                      > the hammock in cold temperatures. Pads, pods, under quilts, space
                      > blankets, bivy sacks... Have you considered it may not be worth the
                      > trouble?
                      .......
                      > If you just want to meet a challenge, then that's a different thing.
                      > But there may come a time (November-March???) when you must resort to
                      > a thermarest, down bag and (Heaven forbid) sleep on the ground.
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