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Re: off topic -- diy wood burning backpacking stove

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  • Dave Womble
    Yeah, I agree totally with Shane, that is some neat stuff that Ray is doing with his stove. For what it is worth, I came across a great reference on stove
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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      Yeah, I agree totally with Shane, that is some neat stuff that Ray is
      doing with his stove. For what it is worth, I came across a great
      reference on stove designs: "The Training Manual for Cookstoves" by
      the Peace Corp. It has some great info about stove designs,
      efficiencies and how they actually work. It has a well layed out
      table of contents that allows you to go to the particular subject
      that you are interested in. When I looked at it, I could see clearly
      why the "real Trangia stoves" were so efficient and also why my
      Japanese Komono grill works so well. It showed me what I had already
      discovered: the efficiency of homemade backpacking stoves is not so
      much in the burner design, but in the design of "all the things that
      make up the stove"; for the popular alcohol stoves it would include
      the bottom reflector, preheat pan, burner, stove stand, wind screen
      and the pot-- the best stove is one in which the dimensions of all
      these things are designed to work together. Anyway, if you are
      interested the Peace Corp stove manual can be found at
      http://tinyurl.com/pkju

      Like I said, it has some great info about stoves and how they work.
      And Ray, keep up the good work and don't fret about using alcohol to
      start your stove-- it is good to have for other purposes anyway, like
      as a disinfectant for your hands.

      Youngblood


      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
      wrote:
      > > > I will put together a web page with some
      > > > pictures and additional detail. Comments are welcome.
      > >
      > > see: http://raygarlington.50mb.org/WoodGasStove/WoodGasStove.htm
      >
      > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
      very
      > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
      simple
      > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
      >
      > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
      clear on
      > that point.
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > Shane Steinkamp
    • Ray Garlington
      ... very ... simple ... Shane, Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
        wrote:
        > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
        very
        > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
        simple
        > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
        >

        Shane,

        Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and
        fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for backpacking
        where dry fuel will be available (or be collected and dried). I
        would like to improve the bottom insulation somewhat so that it can
        be used on flammable surfaces (like a picnic table).


        > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
        clear on
        > that point.

        Yes, I neglected this point, but won't be able to take pictures &
        update the page until probably monday. If you want to try it before
        then, just get some chicken wire, rabbit wire or similar and fashion
        a grate that will keep the wood off the bottom of the can. That way
        air can circulate under the fuel charge. There is nothing tricky
        going on there. In fact, there is nothing tricky going on at all,
        except the non-intuitive idea of loading the stove and igniting the
        top of the fuel! If you have the materials, you can make the stove
        in about 5 minutes.

        Ray
      • ra1@imrisk.com
        Ray,Great reading on this little stove you have designed. The weekend promises some time to try it out.A few questions:Have you tried lighting it
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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          Ray,

          Great reading on this little stove you have designed. The weekend promises some
          time to try it out.

          A few questions:

          Have you tried lighting it with pine needles or paper as some suggest, instead
          of the liquid?

          Effects of wood that is not quite dry?

          I assume the stove windscreen is causing some of the air/smoke from the
          secondary slits to be pulled under the stove in a preheated way and to burn the
          wood gas. Do I have this right?

          Rick

          Quoting Ray Garlington <rgarling@...>:

          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
          > wrote:
          > > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
          > very
          > > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
          > simple
          > > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
          > >
          >
          > Shane,
          >
          > Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and
          > fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for backpacking
          > where dry fuel will be available (or be collected and dried). I
          > would like to improve the bottom insulation somewhat so that it can
          > be used on flammable surfaces (like a picnic table).
          >
          >
          > > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
          > clear on
          > > that point.
          >
          > Yes, I neglected this point, but won't be able to take pictures &
          > update the page until probably monday. If you want to try it before
          > then, just get some chicken wire, rabbit wire or similar and fashion
          > a grate that will keep the wood off the bottom of the can. That way
          > air can circulate under the fuel charge. There is nothing tricky
          > going on there. In fact, there is nothing tricky going on at all,
          > except the non-intuitive idea of loading the stove and igniting the
          > top of the fuel! If you have the materials, you can make the stove
          > in about 5 minutes.
          >
          > Ray
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >



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        • Ray Garlington
          ... suggest, instead ... I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
            > Have you tried lighting it with pine needles or paper as some
            suggest, instead
            > of the liquid?

            I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was
            also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
            layed on top of the fuel charge.
            >
            > Effects of wood that is not quite dry?
            >
            The more wet and the more green the wood the more difficult starting
            is (more fluid must be used). Also, when the stove transitions to
            charcoal burning, wet/green wood tends to smoke. So far, blowing
            down on the coals has added enough air to hasten the transition back
            to smokelessness.

            > I assume the stove windscreen is causing some of the air/smoke from
            the
            > secondary slits to be pulled under the stove in a preheated way and
            to burn the
            > wood gas. Do I have this right?

            The stove windscreen acts as insulation for the comubstion chamber
            and heats the primary/secondary air. Concerning the secondary air
            inlets, all that happens there is that additional, slightly pre-
            heated fresh air is drawn into the combustion chamber. If you look
            carefully on the picture of the stove body, you will notice that the
            bottom of the secondary-air slit has been pushed toward the center of
            the can. This creates a small venturi that draws in more air (this
            seems to help). On my current stove, I have cut four additional
            secondary slits, two ridges higher & halfway in between the slits
            shown in the picture. Don't know if they help much (or any for that
            matter).
          • ra1@imrisk.com
            Ray wrote: I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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              Ray wrote:
              >
              > I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was
              > also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
              > layed on top of the fuel charge.
              > >
              Yes, I am thinking of the little strips of cardboard soaked in candle wax that
              "NoDrip" told me about on the AT. I have been using them for fire starters ever
              since. They are non-volatile, can't leak, and burn very well.

              I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the weight and pack
              footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the original and
              some mods over the weekend.

              I did go out and look up several of the web references to the downdraft stoves.
              You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something which can be
              used for backpacking!

              Rick
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            • Ray Garlington
              ... weight and pack ... original and ... downdraft stoves. ... which can be ... Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out. Ray
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
                > I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the
                weight and pack
                > footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the
                original and
                > some mods over the weekend.
                >
                > I did go out and look up several of the web references to the
                downdraft stoves.
                > You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something
                which can be
                > used for backpacking!
                >
                > Rick


                Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out.
                Ray
              • Risk
                Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already. - the stove works - I have been able to get it to work with paraffin soaked cardboard, but
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                  Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already.

                  - the stove works
                  - I have been able to get it to work with paraffin soaked cardboard,
                  but not with much weight savings over the half teaspoon of lamp oil or
                  coleman fuel it takes to get started.
                  - One nice thing about the stove is that it can be started with just
                  about any fuel. This is a plus for finding a source of fuel anywhere.
                  - I tried a version with windows cut in the top 3/4 inch of the can.
                  It is not tall enough to create enough draft. It did not work
                  - I tried a very light version made from sheet brass and aluminum.
                  This works pretty well and fits inside my small pot. However it is
                  more fragile and not quite as stable. It also must be used where metal
                  sticks can be inserted in the ground. I will post some pics of this
                  when I have the weights available.
                  - I replaced your bottom screen with a piece of hardware cloth. It
                  sits on four tabs that are bent up instead of down. I cut the
                  openings for the cuts with a dremmel drill.
                  - I am getting boiling times a little shorter than yours. It takes
                  about 5-6 minutes to boil 2 cups of water, and the water boils for
                  about 8-10 minutes. It does stay hot for many more minutes, because
                  of the charcoal heat.
                  - I had trouble with the pot stand sticking to the pot. I came up
                  with a lighter-weight alternative with less contact area.
                  - I can already see that I would be willing to take this little stove
                  hiking for a longer trial.

                  Great work Ray!

                  Rick

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                  <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
                  > > I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the
                  > weight and pack
                  > > footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the
                  > original and
                  > > some mods over the weekend.
                  > >
                  > > I did go out and look up several of the web references to the
                  > downdraft stoves.
                  > > You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something
                  > which can be
                  > > used for backpacking!
                  > >
                  > > Rick
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out.
                  > Ray
                • efield
                  I have a couple of questions. 1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the can, the more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                    I have a couple of questions.

                    1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the can, the
                    more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum diameter for a
                    backpacking stove.

                    2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total burn time?
                    Would a taller stove
                    give longer burn times?


                    Great work to all who are testing these stoves.

                    Ed Field

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Risk"

                    > Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already.
                    >
                    > - the stove works
                  • Risk
                    Ed, Ray will post his own reply, but I believe that he has found a pretty optimum size. This may be about as small as the stove can be and still be self
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                      Ed,

                      Ray will post his own reply, but I believe that he has found a pretty
                      optimum size. This may be about as small as the stove can be and
                      still be self sustaining. He used, and I copied, a stove made from a
                      tin can which is 4 3/8 in (11.1 cm) tall and 2 7/8 in (7.4 cm)in
                      diameter. This is a common can size for many vegetables in the US.

                      From reading the literature, a taller stove does give a longer burn
                      time. But for most backpack cooking this is a pretty good time. I
                      did find yesterday, that if I wanted to increase the time, I could add
                      another batch of small sticks when the stove enters the charcoal phase
                      and it would be back to gassifying very quickly. This burn is not
                      quite as efficient, because the heat is below the sticks and not
                      working its way down through them.

                      I am interested in seeing what Ray has to add to this.

                      BTW,

                      There is a small chance we should think about moving this discussion
                      to another group as it has been staying off hammock camping for quite
                      a while. How about BPL? Ray?

                      Rick

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "efield" <efield@c...> wrote:
                      > I have a couple of questions.
                      >
                      > 1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the
                      can, the
                      > more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum diameter for a
                      > backpacking stove.
                      >
                      > 2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total
                      burn time?
                      > Would a taller stove
                      > give longer burn times?
                      >
                      >
                      > Great work to all who are testing these stoves.
                      >
                    • Shane Steinkamp
                      ... I have a couple of things I d like to add too, but I d like to see us move it first. Anywhere you like... Even off list if need be. Might be a good time
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                        > There is a small chance we should think about moving this
                        > discussion to another group as it has been staying off hammock
                        > camping for quite a while. How about BPL? Ray?

                        I have a couple of things I'd like to add too, but I'd like to see us move
                        it first. Anywhere you like... Even off list if need be.

                        Might be a good time to create the 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on
                        Yahoo...

                        Shane
                      • Shane Steinkamp
                        ... Well, here s: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/ Shane
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                          > Might be a good time to create the
                          > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...

                          Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/

                          Shane
                        • Coy
                          That was satorical right. I agree 1% we also need a list for where do you live. I d rather have a few list with reliable informaation than a seperate list for
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 6, 2003
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                            That was satorical right.

                            I agree 1% we also need a list for where do you live. I'd rather
                            have a few list with reliable informaation than a seperate list for
                            ever topic under the sun.

                            Coy Boy

                            -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
                            wrote:
                            > > Might be a good time to create the
                            > > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...
                            >
                            > Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/
                            >
                            > Shane
                          • Ray Garlington
                            ... OK. Just one last message on Hammockcamping about this stove to clean up some questions that were left unanswered here. ========= From: efield
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 7, 2003
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                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
                              wrote:
                              > > Might be a good time to create the
                              > > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...
                              >
                              > Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/
                              >
                              > Shane

                              OK. Just one last message on Hammockcamping about this stove to clean
                              up some questions that were left unanswered here.

                              =========
                              From: "efield" <efield@c...>
                              Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 6:58 am

                              1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the
                              can, the more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum
                              diameter for a backpacking stove.

                              >>>> The stove in its 3" x 4.5" size has adequate power to boil 1
                              quart of water in about 10 minutes. For a single person this is
                              probably ok, plus (at that size) it turns out not to need any air
                              controls and is nearly smokeless. The downside is that the smaller
                              the stove, the more care that is required when preparing the fuel.

                              I have been working on a 4" x ~7" size. It will take larger wood so
                              preparation is more fun, puts out a lot of heat, but needs to
                              be "turned down" halfway through the burn. Right now it smokes too
                              much (black smoke).

                              2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total
                              burn time? Would a taller stove give longer burn times?

                              >>>> If you go taller, you can have a longer burn and will get more
                              heat at mid burn.

                              ======================
                              From: "Risk" <ra1@i...>
                              Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 8:07 am
                              Subject: Re: off topic -- diy wood burning backpacking stove

                              I did find yesterday, that if I wanted to increase the time, I could
                              add another batch of small sticks when the stove enters the charcoal
                              phase and it would be back to gassifying very quickly.

                              >>>> In my experience, once started, it always smokes if wood is
                              added. If the smoke doesn't bother anyone, then this would be a good
                              way to extend burn time as necessary.

                              =============

                              > Might be a good time to create the
                              > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...

                              Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/


                              If you are interested in this topic, the discussion has moved to the
                              above group. See you there!
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