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Re: off topic -- diy wood burning backpacking stove

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  • Ray Garlington
    ... You need about 1/8 to 1/4 of air space at the bottom of the can. I just used multiple layers of folded chicken wire and pushed it down to the very bottom
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
      > I was trying to imagine where the fire grate (screen) goes.

      You need about 1/8" to 1/4" of air space at the bottom of the can. I
      just used multiple layers of folded chicken wire and pushed it down
      to the very bottom of the can. You have enough space if you can look
      through one of the primary air holes and see light through the
      opposite one.

      > I am impressed that it will burn so long on one 2 oz load of fuel.

      Yes, it surprises me too. Also, no smoke! which is also a nice
      surprise.

      > I was expecting it to need reloaded like i hear the Zip and other
      > similar stoves need.

      If you do reload this stove as it burns down, it will smoke. It is
      probably better to size the burner to the amount of heat you will
      need rather than try to reload one that is too small.

      > What can are you using?

      I'm using a small can that vegetables came in. It is 3 inches in
      diameter and 4 1/2 inches tall.

      > I have a maxwell house coffee can which would
      > probably work great.

      This can is much bigger than the one I used. It will generate a lot
      more heat and will require more wood. Let me know how it turns out.
    • Shane Steinkamp
      ... I m WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I d say that I am very excited about this one Ray. I ve thought for a long time that a simple gasifying
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
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        > > I will put together a web page with some
        > > pictures and additional detail. Comments are welcome.
        >
        > see: http://raygarlington.50mb.org/WoodGasStove/WoodGasStove.htm

        I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am very
        excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a simple
        gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.

        Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't clear on
        that point.

        Thanks!

        Shane Steinkamp
      • Dave Womble
        Yeah, I agree totally with Shane, that is some neat stuff that Ray is doing with his stove. For what it is worth, I came across a great reference on stove
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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          Yeah, I agree totally with Shane, that is some neat stuff that Ray is
          doing with his stove. For what it is worth, I came across a great
          reference on stove designs: "The Training Manual for Cookstoves" by
          the Peace Corp. It has some great info about stove designs,
          efficiencies and how they actually work. It has a well layed out
          table of contents that allows you to go to the particular subject
          that you are interested in. When I looked at it, I could see clearly
          why the "real Trangia stoves" were so efficient and also why my
          Japanese Komono grill works so well. It showed me what I had already
          discovered: the efficiency of homemade backpacking stoves is not so
          much in the burner design, but in the design of "all the things that
          make up the stove"; for the popular alcohol stoves it would include
          the bottom reflector, preheat pan, burner, stove stand, wind screen
          and the pot-- the best stove is one in which the dimensions of all
          these things are designed to work together. Anyway, if you are
          interested the Peace Corp stove manual can be found at
          http://tinyurl.com/pkju

          Like I said, it has some great info about stoves and how they work.
          And Ray, keep up the good work and don't fret about using alcohol to
          start your stove-- it is good to have for other purposes anyway, like
          as a disinfectant for your hands.

          Youngblood


          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
          wrote:
          > > > I will put together a web page with some
          > > > pictures and additional detail. Comments are welcome.
          > >
          > > see: http://raygarlington.50mb.org/WoodGasStove/WoodGasStove.htm
          >
          > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
          very
          > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
          simple
          > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
          >
          > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
          clear on
          > that point.
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Shane Steinkamp
        • Ray Garlington
          ... very ... simple ... Shane, Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
            wrote:
            > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
            very
            > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
            simple
            > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
            >

            Shane,

            Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and
            fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for backpacking
            where dry fuel will be available (or be collected and dried). I
            would like to improve the bottom insulation somewhat so that it can
            be used on flammable surfaces (like a picnic table).


            > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
            clear on
            > that point.

            Yes, I neglected this point, but won't be able to take pictures &
            update the page until probably monday. If you want to try it before
            then, just get some chicken wire, rabbit wire or similar and fashion
            a grate that will keep the wood off the bottom of the can. That way
            air can circulate under the fuel charge. There is nothing tricky
            going on there. In fact, there is nothing tricky going on at all,
            except the non-intuitive idea of loading the stove and igniting the
            top of the fuel! If you have the materials, you can make the stove
            in about 5 minutes.

            Ray
          • ra1@imrisk.com
            Ray,Great reading on this little stove you have designed. The weekend promises some time to try it out.A few questions:Have you tried lighting it
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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              Ray,

              Great reading on this little stove you have designed. The weekend promises some
              time to try it out.

              A few questions:

              Have you tried lighting it with pine needles or paper as some suggest, instead
              of the liquid?

              Effects of wood that is not quite dry?

              I assume the stove windscreen is causing some of the air/smoke from the
              secondary slits to be pulled under the stove in a preheated way and to burn the
              wood gas. Do I have this right?

              Rick

              Quoting Ray Garlington <rgarling@...>:

              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
              > wrote:
              > > I'm WAY behind in the list, but I just thought I'd say that I am
              > very
              > > excited about this one Ray. I've thought for a long time that a
              > simple
              > > gasifying wood stove would be excellent for backpacking.
              > >
              >
              > Shane,
              >
              > Thanks for your interest. The stove is really quite convenient and
              > fun once you get the hang of it. At 4 oz, it is good for backpacking
              > where dry fuel will be available (or be collected and dried). I
              > would like to improve the bottom insulation somewhat so that it can
              > be used on flammable surfaces (like a picnic table).
              >
              >
              > > Can you provide an image for the screen? The construction isn't
              > clear on
              > > that point.
              >
              > Yes, I neglected this point, but won't be able to take pictures &
              > update the page until probably monday. If you want to try it before
              > then, just get some chicken wire, rabbit wire or similar and fashion
              > a grate that will keep the wood off the bottom of the can. That way
              > air can circulate under the fuel charge. There is nothing tricky
              > going on there. In fact, there is nothing tricky going on at all,
              > except the non-intuitive idea of loading the stove and igniting the
              > top of the fuel! If you have the materials, you can make the stove
              > in about 5 minutes.
              >
              > Ray
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >



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            • Ray Garlington
              ... suggest, instead ... I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
                > Have you tried lighting it with pine needles or paper as some
                suggest, instead
                > of the liquid?

                I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was
                also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
                layed on top of the fuel charge.
                >
                > Effects of wood that is not quite dry?
                >
                The more wet and the more green the wood the more difficult starting
                is (more fluid must be used). Also, when the stove transitions to
                charcoal burning, wet/green wood tends to smoke. So far, blowing
                down on the coals has added enough air to hasten the transition back
                to smokelessness.

                > I assume the stove windscreen is causing some of the air/smoke from
                the
                > secondary slits to be pulled under the stove in a preheated way and
                to burn the
                > wood gas. Do I have this right?

                The stove windscreen acts as insulation for the comubstion chamber
                and heats the primary/secondary air. Concerning the secondary air
                inlets, all that happens there is that additional, slightly pre-
                heated fresh air is drawn into the combustion chamber. If you look
                carefully on the picture of the stove body, you will notice that the
                bottom of the secondary-air slit has been pushed toward the center of
                the can. This creates a small venturi that draws in more air (this
                seems to help). On my current stove, I have cut four additional
                secondary slits, two ridges higher & halfway in between the slits
                shown in the picture. Don't know if they help much (or any for that
                matter).
              • ra1@imrisk.com
                Ray wrote: I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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                  Ray wrote:
                  >
                  > I want to try lighting with tender, but have not done so yet. I was
                  > also thinking of some sort of fabric dipped in wax that could be
                  > layed on top of the fuel charge.
                  > >
                  Yes, I am thinking of the little strips of cardboard soaked in candle wax that
                  "NoDrip" told me about on the AT. I have been using them for fire starters ever
                  since. They are non-volatile, can't leak, and burn very well.

                  I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the weight and pack
                  footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the original and
                  some mods over the weekend.

                  I did go out and look up several of the web references to the downdraft stoves.
                  You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something which can be
                  used for backpacking!

                  Rick
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                • Ray Garlington
                  ... weight and pack ... original and ... downdraft stoves. ... which can be ... Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out. Ray
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 3, 2003
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
                    > I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the
                    weight and pack
                    > footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the
                    original and
                    > some mods over the weekend.
                    >
                    > I did go out and look up several of the web references to the
                    downdraft stoves.
                    > You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something
                    which can be
                    > used for backpacking!
                    >
                    > Rick


                    Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out.
                    Ray
                  • Risk
                    Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already. - the stove works - I have been able to get it to work with paraffin soaked cardboard, but
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                      Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already.

                      - the stove works
                      - I have been able to get it to work with paraffin soaked cardboard,
                      but not with much weight savings over the half teaspoon of lamp oil or
                      coleman fuel it takes to get started.
                      - One nice thing about the stove is that it can be started with just
                      about any fuel. This is a plus for finding a source of fuel anywhere.
                      - I tried a version with windows cut in the top 3/4 inch of the can.
                      It is not tall enough to create enough draft. It did not work
                      - I tried a very light version made from sheet brass and aluminum.
                      This works pretty well and fits inside my small pot. However it is
                      more fragile and not quite as stable. It also must be used where metal
                      sticks can be inserted in the ground. I will post some pics of this
                      when I have the weights available.
                      - I replaced your bottom screen with a piece of hardware cloth. It
                      sits on four tabs that are bent up instead of down. I cut the
                      openings for the cuts with a dremmel drill.
                      - I am getting boiling times a little shorter than yours. It takes
                      about 5-6 minutes to boil 2 cups of water, and the water boils for
                      about 8-10 minutes. It does stay hot for many more minutes, because
                      of the charcoal heat.
                      - I had trouble with the pot stand sticking to the pot. I came up
                      with a lighter-weight alternative with less contact area.
                      - I can already see that I would be willing to take this little stove
                      hiking for a longer trial.

                      Great work Ray!

                      Rick

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                      <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, ra1@i... wrote:
                      > > I have also been doing some thinking about ways to decrease the
                      > weight and pack
                      > > footprint. I love your concept and look forward to trying out the
                      > original and
                      > > some mods over the weekend.
                      > >
                      > > I did go out and look up several of the web references to the
                      > downdraft stoves.
                      > > You did a great job of turning those heavy items into something
                      > which can be
                      > > used for backpacking!
                      > >
                      > > Rick
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks for your comments. Have fun & let me know what you find out.
                      > Ray
                    • efield
                      I have a couple of questions. 1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the can, the more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                        I have a couple of questions.

                        1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the can, the
                        more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum diameter for a
                        backpacking stove.

                        2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total burn time?
                        Would a taller stove
                        give longer burn times?


                        Great work to all who are testing these stoves.

                        Ed Field

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Risk"

                        > Three stoves into this project, I have learned a few things already.
                        >
                        > - the stove works
                      • Risk
                        Ed, Ray will post his own reply, but I believe that he has found a pretty optimum size. This may be about as small as the stove can be and still be self
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                          Ed,

                          Ray will post his own reply, but I believe that he has found a pretty
                          optimum size. This may be about as small as the stove can be and
                          still be self sustaining. He used, and I copied, a stove made from a
                          tin can which is 4 3/8 in (11.1 cm) tall and 2 7/8 in (7.4 cm)in
                          diameter. This is a common can size for many vegetables in the US.

                          From reading the literature, a taller stove does give a longer burn
                          time. But for most backpack cooking this is a pretty good time. I
                          did find yesterday, that if I wanted to increase the time, I could add
                          another batch of small sticks when the stove enters the charcoal phase
                          and it would be back to gassifying very quickly. This burn is not
                          quite as efficient, because the heat is below the sticks and not
                          working its way down through them.

                          I am interested in seeing what Ray has to add to this.

                          BTW,

                          There is a small chance we should think about moving this discussion
                          to another group as it has been staying off hammock camping for quite
                          a while. How about BPL? Ray?

                          Rick

                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "efield" <efield@c...> wrote:
                          > I have a couple of questions.
                          >
                          > 1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the
                          can, the
                          > more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum diameter for a
                          > backpacking stove.
                          >
                          > 2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total
                          burn time?
                          > Would a taller stove
                          > give longer burn times?
                          >
                          >
                          > Great work to all who are testing these stoves.
                          >
                        • Shane Steinkamp
                          ... I have a couple of things I d like to add too, but I d like to see us move it first. Anywhere you like... Even off list if need be. Might be a good time
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                            > There is a small chance we should think about moving this
                            > discussion to another group as it has been staying off hammock
                            > camping for quite a while. How about BPL? Ray?

                            I have a couple of things I'd like to add too, but I'd like to see us move
                            it first. Anywhere you like... Even off list if need be.

                            Might be a good time to create the 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on
                            Yahoo...

                            Shane
                          • Shane Steinkamp
                            ... Well, here s: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/ Shane
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 5, 2003
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                              > Might be a good time to create the
                              > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...

                              Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/

                              Shane
                            • Coy
                              That was satorical right. I agree 1% we also need a list for where do you live. I d rather have a few list with reliable informaation than a seperate list for
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 6, 2003
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                                That was satorical right.

                                I agree 1% we also need a list for where do you live. I'd rather
                                have a few list with reliable informaation than a seperate list for
                                ever topic under the sun.

                                Coy Boy

                                -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
                                wrote:
                                > > Might be a good time to create the
                                > > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...
                                >
                                > Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/
                                >
                                > Shane
                              • Ray Garlington
                                ... OK. Just one last message on Hammockcamping about this stove to clean up some questions that were left unanswered here. ========= From: efield
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 7, 2003
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                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane Steinkamp" <shane@t...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > Might be a good time to create the
                                  > > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...
                                  >
                                  > Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/
                                  >
                                  > Shane

                                  OK. Just one last message on Hammockcamping about this stove to clean
                                  up some questions that were left unanswered here.

                                  =========
                                  From: "efield" <efield@c...>
                                  Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 6:58 am

                                  1. Ray said in his earlier posts that the larger the diameter the
                                  can, the more heat was produced. Has anyone come up with an otimum
                                  diameter for a backpacking stove.

                                  >>>> The stove in its 3" x 4.5" size has adequate power to boil 1
                                  quart of water in about 10 minutes. For a single person this is
                                  probably ok, plus (at that size) it turns out not to need any air
                                  controls and is nearly smokeless. The downside is that the smaller
                                  the stove, the more care that is required when preparing the fuel.

                                  I have been working on a 4" x ~7" size. It will take larger wood so
                                  preparation is more fun, puts out a lot of heat, but needs to
                                  be "turned down" halfway through the burn. Right now it smokes too
                                  much (black smoke).

                                  2. Does the height of the fuel load have much affect on the total
                                  burn time? Would a taller stove give longer burn times?

                                  >>>> If you go taller, you can have a longer burn and will get more
                                  heat at mid burn.

                                  ======================
                                  From: "Risk" <ra1@i...>
                                  Date: Sun Oct 5, 2003 8:07 am
                                  Subject: Re: off topic -- diy wood burning backpacking stove

                                  I did find yesterday, that if I wanted to increase the time, I could
                                  add another batch of small sticks when the stove enters the charcoal
                                  phase and it would be back to gassifying very quickly.

                                  >>>> In my experience, once started, it always smokes if wood is
                                  added. If the smoke doesn't bother anyone, then this would be a good
                                  way to extend burn time as necessary.

                                  =============

                                  > Might be a good time to create the
                                  > 'woodburningbackpackingstoves' list on Yahoo...

                                  Well, here's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BackpackingStoves/


                                  If you are interested in this topic, the discussion has moved to the
                                  above group. See you there!
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