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RE: Hammock Camping Re: Pads and Bags... Darn cold weather..

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  • Patrick Harper
    Just thought that I would check! :) ... From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:50 PM To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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      Just thought that I would check! :)
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:50 PM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Pads and Bags... Darn cold weather..

      Oops No I just cant spell worth a flip.

      Pactrick

      It is easier to not have to get inside a sleeping bag.  I have tried
      several ways.  I actually like using my smaller bag like a quilt
      with my feet in the bottom but the rest just pulled around me.  Fact
      is, I could never get a pad inside this bag even if I wanted to.  I
      do have an old school metal valve thermarest pad shaped like a
      sleeping bag, in fact it is the bottom of a sleeping bag.  Down
      sleeping bags are pretty much usless on the bottom any way. 
      Synthetics fair a little better. I have slept out on a few nights in
      the low 20's upper teens using a blue foam pad and my super wide
      reflectix/fleece pad. But I think I could have made it with the 2
      blue foam pads just as well.  My reflectic/fleece pad is a monster,
      40 inches wide at the shoulders and about a pound and a half but
      makes a really big bundle.

      Coy Boy  

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
      <pharper@k...> wrote:
      > I don't know if you meant "Pack-trick" for my name or if that was
      > just a mispelling, but that used to be my trail-name when I was a
      > kid. :) Thank you for your reply, I had one other quick question
      for
      > you.  Do you use just one bag with the two pads?
      >
      > Okay, maybe I have two questions, have you used the Garlington
      > insulator?  Is the two pad thing any comparison to amount of
      > warmth?  I would use the insulator, but with the HH it is a little
      > hard to get rigged right.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Patrick
      >
      >
      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...>
      wrote:
      > > Hi Pactrick.
      > >
      > > I would guess having the pad inside the sleeping bag would be a
      > tad
      > > warmmer but not much. But a therm-a-Rest is not as warm as a
      blue
      > > foam (well the thin 1 in therm-a-rest anyways).  So to answer
      your
      > > question, the wide blue foam under the bag and a smaller cut to
      > fit
      > > blue foam inside should do the trick.  But if not add more foam.
      > > Really nothing but simple laws of phisics at work.  It is one
      > reason
      > > so many have been experimenting with different types of
      suspended
      > > blankets to hang under the hammock.  You get a higer loft (more
      > > insulation) but dont have to lug several bulky pads around. On
      the
      > > brightside for pads that is, they are cheap and dont weigh
      much. 
      > I
      > > have no remorse using 2 pads for cold weather. Still more
      > > comfortable than the ground.  You can experiment with several
      > types
      > > of padding but the less comperssable the better.
      > >
      > > Coy Boy
      > >
      > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
      > > <pharper@k...> wrote:
      > > > I have a HH that I absolutely love!  I am wanting to use it 4
      > > season
      > > > (as do most people, it seems!) and had some questions.
      > > >
      > > > I have read a lot of the older threads regarding this subject
      > and
      > > I
      > > > wanted to bounce some ideas off of people.  I have a 0 degree
      > > > slumberjack blue thunder bag, as well as a $15 coleman fleece
      > bag
      > > > from Target.  I also have the infamous "blue pad" from target
      > and
      > > an
      > > > old-school thermarest (metal valve and all!)
      > > >
      > > > I have tried sleeping with the thermarest inside my mummy bag
      > and
      > > > then had the coleman fleece inside (on top of the pad).  This
      > > seems
      > > > to work alright, but only if I am wearing quite a bit of
      clothes
      > > and
      > > > it isn't that cold out (upper 30s to lower 40s).  One of my
      > > > questions is "does having the pad inside the bag take away
      from
      > > the
      > > > insulating?"
      > > >
      > > > I was thinking about rigging an overlap pad from the blue pad
      > and
      > > > using that in conjunction with the thermarest (or getting
      > another
      > > > cheap closed cell pad).  Have people tried this?  I know that
      I
      > > have
      > > > to have the overlap pad outside of my bag, as it won't fit
      > inside,
      > > > but should I also have the other pad outside my mummy bag? 
      > Also,
      > > > would the thermarest or another cheap closed cell foam pad be
      > > > better?  Or would having two pads not help that much (as far
      as
      > a
      > > > warmth vs. weight debate)?
      > > >
      > > > I just got the blue pad so I haven't tried it yet.
      > > >
      > > > Sorry that this is so long, as well as confusing ;), Thank you
      > in
      > > > advance for you replies.
      > > >
      > > > -Patrick



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    • Patrick Harper
      HAHAHA, to be honest, I saw how my name was spelled and thought it was the original message. I just noticed that you wrote more! I won t make you write it
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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        HAHAHA, to be honest, I saw how my name was spelled and thought it was the original message.  I just noticed that you wrote more!  I won't make you write it that many times, heaven only knows that I am awful at spelling!
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:53 PM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Pads and Bags... Darn cold weather..

        I know yall anit giong to believe that was a mistake again.  But I
        really ment Patrick.

        Dont make me write it a thousand times.

        CB

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
        > Oops No I just cant spell worth a flip.
        >
        > Pactrick
        >
        > It is easier to not have to get inside a sleeping bag.



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        hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      • Coy
        Patrick (got it right finally) Oh and I forgot to answer your question. No I havent tried a Garlington Insulator yet. Give me time. I built my first hammock
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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          Patrick (got it right finally)

          Oh and I forgot to answer your question. No I havent tried a
          Garlington Insulator yet. Give me time. I built my first hammock
          today. I feel like I'm on a roll. I have used a 20 degree, a 0
          degree, and most recently a 30 degree bag but never more than one
          bag at a time. Using the bag as a quilt i actually think the loft is
          increased bacause the bag is folded around in places on top instead
          of stretched out like it is when I'm in it zipped up. I did zip the
          30 degree Wisp when I used it in my hammock just to see if I could.

          Coy Boy
          PS Maybe Ray can answer your questions on the Garlington
          Insulator.

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
          > Oops No I just cant spell worth a flip.
          >
          > Pactrick
          >
          > It is easier to not have to get inside a sleeping bag. I have
          tried
          > several ways. I actually like using my smaller bag like a quilt
          > with my feet in the bottom but the rest just pulled around me.
          Fact
          > is, I could never get a pad inside this bag even if I wanted to.
          I
          > do have an old school metal valve thermarest pad shaped like a
          > sleeping bag, in fact it is the bottom of a sleeping bag. Down
          > sleeping bags are pretty much usless on the bottom any way.
          > Synthetics fair a little better. I have slept out on a few nights
          in
          > the low 20's upper teens using a blue foam pad and my super wide
          > reflectix/fleece pad. But I think I could have made it with the 2
          > blue foam pads just as well. My reflectic/fleece pad is a
          monster,
          > 40 inches wide at the shoulders and about a pound and a half but
          > makes a really big bundle.
          >
          > Coy Boy
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
          > <pharper@k...> wrote:
          > > I don't know if you meant "Pack-trick" for my name or if that
          was
          > > just a mispelling, but that used to be my trail-name when I was
          a
          > > kid. :) Thank you for your reply, I had one other quick question
          > for
          > > you. Do you use just one bag with the two pads?
          > >
          > > Okay, maybe I have two questions, have you used the Garlington
          > > insulator? Is the two pad thing any comparison to amount of
          > > warmth? I would use the insulator, but with the HH it is a
          little
          > > hard to get rigged right.
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Patrick
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > > Hi Pactrick.
          > > >
          > > > I would guess having the pad inside the sleeping bag would be
          a
          > > tad
          > > > warmmer but not much. But a therm-a-Rest is not as warm as a
          > blue
          > > > foam (well the thin 1 in therm-a-rest anyways). So to answer
          > your
          > > > question, the wide blue foam under the bag and a smaller cut
          to
          > > fit
          > > > blue foam inside should do the trick. But if not add more
          foam.
          > > > Really nothing but simple laws of phisics at work. It is one
          > > reason
          > > > so many have been experimenting with different types of
          > suspended
          > > > blankets to hang under the hammock. You get a higer loft
          (more
          > > > insulation) but dont have to lug several bulky pads around. On
          > the
          > > > brightside for pads that is, they are cheap and dont weigh
          > much.
          > > I
          > > > have no remorse using 2 pads for cold weather. Still more
          > > > comfortable than the ground. You can experiment with several
          > > types
          > > > of padding but the less comperssable the better.
          > > >
          > > > Coy Boy
          > > >
          > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
          > > > <pharper@k...> wrote:
          > > > > I have a HH that I absolutely love! I am wanting to use it
          4
          > > > season
          > > > > (as do most people, it seems!) and had some questions.
          > > > >
          > > > > I have read a lot of the older threads regarding this
          subject
          > > and
          > > > I
          > > > > wanted to bounce some ideas off of people. I have a 0
          degree
          > > > > slumberjack blue thunder bag, as well as a $15 coleman
          fleece
          > > bag
          > > > > from Target. I also have the infamous "blue pad" from
          target
          > > and
          > > > an
          > > > > old-school thermarest (metal valve and all!)
          > > > >
          > > > > I have tried sleeping with the thermarest inside my mummy
          bag
          > > and
          > > > > then had the coleman fleece inside (on top of the pad).
          This
          > > > seems
          > > > > to work alright, but only if I am wearing quite a bit of
          > clothes
          > > > and
          > > > > it isn't that cold out (upper 30s to lower 40s). One of my
          > > > > questions is "does having the pad inside the bag take away
          > from
          > > > the
          > > > > insulating?"
          > > > >
          > > > > I was thinking about rigging an overlap pad from the blue
          pad
          > > and
          > > > > using that in conjunction with the thermarest (or getting
          > > another
          > > > > cheap closed cell pad). Have people tried this? I know
          that
          > I
          > > > have
          > > > > to have the overlap pad outside of my bag, as it won't fit
          > > inside,
          > > > > but should I also have the other pad outside my mummy bag?
          > > Also,
          > > > > would the thermarest or another cheap closed cell foam pad
          be
          > > > > better? Or would having two pads not help that much (as far
          > as
          > > a
          > > > > warmth vs. weight debate)?
          > > > >
          > > > > I just got the blue pad so I haven't tried it yet.
          > > > >
          > > > > Sorry that this is so long, as well as confusing ;), Thank
          you
          > > in
          > > > > advance for you replies.
          > > > >
          > > > > -Patrick
        • Patrick Harper
          Thank you very much for your help! I think that I might head on out to Walmart and get a winshield reflector. Supposed to get down to 30s tonight and the
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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            Thank you very much for your help!  I think that I might head on out to Walmart and get a winshield reflector.  Supposed to get down to 30s tonight and the backyard is sounding mighty fine!
             
            I swear our neighbors must think that my wife and I have a horrible relationship, since we just got married in January and I have been sleeping outside an awful lot!
             
            -Patrick
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:01 PM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Pads and Bags... Darn cold weather..

            Patrick (got it right finally)

            Oh and I forgot to answer your question.  No I havent tried a
            Garlington Insulator yet. Give me time. I built my first hammock
            today. I feel like I'm on a roll.  I have used a 20 degree, a 0
            degree, and most recently a 30 degree bag but never more than one
            bag at a time. Using the bag as a quilt i actually think the loft is
            increased bacause the bag is folded around in places on top instead
            of stretched out like it is when I'm in it zipped up.  I did zip the
            30 degree Wisp when I used it in my hammock just to see if I could.

            Coy Boy
            PS Maybe Ray can answer your questions on the Garlington
            Insulator.  

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
            > Oops No I just cant spell worth a flip.
            >
            > Pactrick
            >
            > It is easier to not have to get inside a sleeping bag.  I have
            tried
            > several ways.  I actually like using my smaller bag like a quilt
            > with my feet in the bottom but the rest just pulled around me. 
            Fact
            > is, I could never get a pad inside this bag even if I wanted to. 
            I
            > do have an old school metal valve thermarest pad shaped like a
            > sleeping bag, in fact it is the bottom of a sleeping bag.  Down
            > sleeping bags are pretty much usless on the bottom any way. 
            > Synthetics fair a little better. I have slept out on a few nights
            in
            > the low 20's upper teens using a blue foam pad and my super wide
            > reflectix/fleece pad. But I think I could have made it with the 2
            > blue foam pads just as well.  My reflectic/fleece pad is a
            monster,
            > 40 inches wide at the shoulders and about a pound and a half but
            > makes a really big bundle.
            >
            > Coy Boy  
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
            > <pharper@k...> wrote:
            > > I don't know if you meant "Pack-trick" for my name or if that
            was
            > > just a mispelling, but that used to be my trail-name when I was
            a
            > > kid. :) Thank you for your reply, I had one other quick question
            > for
            > > you.  Do you use just one bag with the two pads?
            > >
            > > Okay, maybe I have two questions, have you used the Garlington
            > > insulator?  Is the two pad thing any comparison to amount of
            > > warmth?  I would use the insulator, but with the HH it is a
            little
            > > hard to get rigged right.
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > > Patrick
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > > Hi Pactrick.
            > > >
            > > > I would guess having the pad inside the sleeping bag would be
            a
            > > tad
            > > > warmmer but not much. But a therm-a-Rest is not as warm as a
            > blue
            > > > foam (well the thin 1 in therm-a-rest anyways).  So to answer
            > your
            > > > question, the wide blue foam under the bag and a smaller cut
            to
            > > fit
            > > > blue foam inside should do the trick.  But if not add more
            foam.
            > > > Really nothing but simple laws of phisics at work.  It is one
            > > reason
            > > > so many have been experimenting with different types of
            > suspended
            > > > blankets to hang under the hammock.  You get a higer loft
            (more
            > > > insulation) but dont have to lug several bulky pads around. On
            > the
            > > > brightside for pads that is, they are cheap and dont weigh
            > much. 
            > > I
            > > > have no remorse using 2 pads for cold weather. Still more
            > > > comfortable than the ground.  You can experiment with several
            > > types
            > > > of padding but the less comperssable the better.
            > > >
            > > > Coy Boy
            > > >
            > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "freak_of_nature_98"
            > > > <pharper@k...> wrote:
            > > > > I have a HH that I absolutely love!  I am wanting to use it
            4
            > > > season
            > > > > (as do most people, it seems!) and had some questions.
            > > > >
            > > > > I have read a lot of the older threads regarding this
            subject
            > > and
            > > > I
            > > > > wanted to bounce some ideas off of people.  I have a 0
            degree
            > > > > slumberjack blue thunder bag, as well as a $15 coleman
            fleece
            > > bag
            > > > > from Target.  I also have the infamous "blue pad" from
            target
            > > and
            > > > an
            > > > > old-school thermarest (metal valve and all!)
            > > > >
            > > > > I have tried sleeping with the thermarest inside my mummy
            bag
            > > and
            > > > > then had the coleman fleece inside (on top of the pad). 
            This
            > > > seems
            > > > > to work alright, but only if I am wearing quite a bit of
            > clothes
            > > > and
            > > > > it isn't that cold out (upper 30s to lower 40s).  One of my
            > > > > questions is "does having the pad inside the bag take away
            > from
            > > > the
            > > > > insulating?"
            > > > >
            > > > > I was thinking about rigging an overlap pad from the blue
            pad
            > > and
            > > > > using that in conjunction with the thermarest (or getting
            > > another
            > > > > cheap closed cell pad).  Have people tried this?  I know
            that
            > I
            > > > have
            > > > > to have the overlap pad outside of my bag, as it won't fit
            > > inside,
            > > > > but should I also have the other pad outside my mummy bag? 
            > > Also,
            > > > > would the thermarest or another cheap closed cell foam pad
            be
            > > > > better?  Or would having two pads not help that much (as far
            > as
            > > a
            > > > > warmth vs. weight debate)?
            > > > >
            > > > > I just got the blue pad so I haven't tried it yet.
            > > > >
            > > > > Sorry that this is so long, as well as confusing ;), Thank
            you
            > > in
            > > > > advance for you replies.
            > > > >
            > > > > -Patrick



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          • Rick
            Patrick ... This is some good stuff to be able to work with as you tailor your preparations for the cold. ... Nothing wrong with having the pad inside your
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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              Patrick

              Reply in line:


              >I have read a lot of the older threads regarding this subject and I
              >wanted to bounce some ideas off of people. I have a 0 degree
              >slumberjack blue thunder bag, as well as a $15 coleman fleece bag
              >from Target. I also have the infamous "blue pad" from target and an
              >old-school thermarest (metal valve and all!)
              >
              >

              This is some good stuff to be able to work with as you tailor your
              preparations for the cold.

              >I have tried sleeping with the thermarest inside my mummy bag and
              >then had the coleman fleece inside (on top of the pad). This seems
              >to work alright, but only if I am wearing quite a bit of clothes and
              >it isn't that cold out (upper 30s to lower 40s). One of my
              >questions is "does having the pad inside the bag take away from the
              >insulating?"
              >
              >
              Nothing wrong with having the pad inside your bag, except that it starts
              to get a little crowded. The first real problem with the thermorest pad
              is that it is not very wide. Many people's shoulders or back end up
              pressing against the bag and then the unpadded hammock . This gives
              very little insulation thickness between you and the cold outside. The
              second problem is that the pad must be inflated pretty well to actually
              have any thickness at its thinnest spots. Those thin spots will get
              pretty cold.

              >I was thinking about rigging an overlap pad from the blue pad and
              >using that in conjunction with the thermarest (or getting another
              >cheap closed cell pad). Have people tried this? I know that I have
              >to have the overlap pad outside of my bag, as it won't fit inside,
              >but should I also have the other pad outside my mummy bag? Also,
              >would the thermarest or another cheap closed cell foam pad be
              >better? Or would having two pads not help that much (as far as a
              >warmth vs. weight debate)?
              >
              >

              I am glad to see you are going to try the overlap pad. We have had no
              other reports, other than my (biased) ones. I do not know if you will
              be able to juggle the two or three pads inside a HH . I developed the
              overlap pad for a hammock with a double bottom. That double bottom
              holds the pads in place and does not let them slip around. Let us know
              how you do. I have used two foam pads in a HH. And a Garlington
              Insulator. It kept me warm all night to 5 degrees on a snowy day last
              January. At those temperatures we use everything and every trick we have!

              >I just got the blue pad so I haven't tried it yet.
              >
              >
              Then time's a wasting!

              I look forward to your reports this next couple months Patrick.

              Risk
            • Rick
              ... Hi Patrick, Windshield reflectors are summertime things. They help, but not a lot. Think thick. Oh, we have a prediction for high 20s in Dayton. Outside
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                Patrick Harper wrote:

                > Thank you very much for your help! I think that I might head on out
                > to Walmart and get a winshield reflector. Supposed to get down to 30s
                > tonight and the backyard is sounding mighty fine!
                >

                Hi Patrick,

                Windshield reflectors are summertime things. They help, but not a lot.
                Think thick.

                Oh, we have a prediction for high 20s in Dayton. Outside I must go!
                I've got to get more skin temperature readings to drive the sensitive
                readers bonkers.

                My neighbors don't think my pretty and I are having troubles. They
                think I am.

                Rick
              • nazdarovye
                More comments inline... ... starts ... pad ... That s been experience as well...and if it s inflated enough to ensure insulation, it s probably stiff enough to
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 1, 2003
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                  More comments inline...

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
                  > Nothing wrong with having the pad inside your bag, except that it
                  starts
                  > to get a little crowded. The first real problem with the thermorest
                  pad
                  > is that it is not very wide. Many people's shoulders or back end up
                  > pressing against the bag and then the unpadded hammock . This gives
                  > very little insulation thickness between you and the cold outside. The
                  > second problem is that the pad must be inflated pretty well to actually
                  > have any thickness at its thinnest spots. Those thin spots will get
                  > pretty cold.

                  That's been experience as well...and if it's inflated enough to ensure
                  insulation, it's probably stiff enough to slip around and be awkward
                  in the hammock.

                  > I am glad to see you are going to try the overlap pad. We have had no
                  > other reports, other than my (biased) ones.

                  I made a doubled pad - not dissimilar to your overlap pad - for my
                  next trip (hiking for a week on the Northville-Placid trail in NY).
                  Since I have a Hennessy, it's going to be stacked inside on the
                  "floor" of the hammock rather than in between layers. It consists of
                  1) a close-to-full-size blue pad (corners rounded off), and 2) a
                  torso-sized, narrower, mummy-shaped cut-down blue pad I'll stack on
                  top of that, directly under me (it could also be slipped inside my
                  Marmot 20° bag, which I might do as an experiment). There's also a sit
                  pad I made from the rest of the second pad that could, if needed, be
                  slipped under my feet or head. I also may improvise something to keep
                  the pads together, but haven't tried that yet.

                  Temperatures will be in the 30s for sure at night, and possibly as low
                  as the mid-20s if a cold front comes through again. My experience in
                  the Sierras has been that a single blue pad actually works pretty well
                  for me in the hammock down until the high 30s, when I start to feel a
                  bit of cooling if there are winds and I'm not wearing warm clothing in
                  the sleeping bag.

                  The same system should work on the floor of a tarp or tent as well.
                  Being made from the blue pads, the whole thing weighs under 13 oz.
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