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First night

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  • Chet Clocksin
    Finally, spent my first night in the HH. I survived! Actually, I did quite well considering the conditions. 18 degrees F, 10 - 15 mph winds, and we got about
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 26, 2003
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      Finally, spent my first night in the HH. I survived! Actually, I did
      quite well considering the conditions. 18 degrees F, 10 - 15 mph winds,
      and we got about an inch of snow. I used the set up as shown in my
      photos (although admittedly you can't see inside the hammock very well
      in the photos), which consists of a polyethylene pad 5/8" x 24 x 72,
      with a regular size windshield reflector on top of it. I used my High
      Peak 20 degree mummy bag as a blanket, and I wore a long sleeve
      lightweight running shirt beneath two medium weight fleece shirts, a
      fleece cap, standard cotton pajama bottoms beneath nylon lined running
      pants, and army surplus wool socks with fleece lined slippers. I also
      took my Columbia Bugaboo parka in the hammock with me, and stuffed it
      along the side edge of my pad to keep something between me and the
      hammock side when sleeping on my side. I was nice and warm for most of
      the night, but a couple times when I woke up (I am very light sleeper,
      and constantly toss and turn even in my own bed) the outside of my upper
      arms were cold where I managed to move off the pad and had direct
      contact with the hammock. Also, getting up to answer natures call was a
      bit of a hassle, and I lay awake for some time trying to put that off
      (It's tuff to get out of a nice warm bundle and take a leak when it's 18
      degrees out!) . Anyway, I'd say my pad could stand to be at least 12 to
      16 inches wider on the upper half, and I should probably trim the
      corners off of the two diagonals that push out on the sides. Also, the
      canopy on the HH flapped around quite a bit when the wind picked up,
      even though I had tightened the guy lines using taut-line hitches before
      going to bed. After checking them this morning I found my knots had
      slipped. I think a bigger fly with a couple more tie out points would be
      nice. All in all I made out pretty good, and it beats the hell out
      sleeping on the ground.
      Chet
    • David Chinell
      Gang: Here s my expedition report. I was expecting the temperature to get down to 32 deg F, but it only went as low as 35. Still, that s a new low for me.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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        Gang:

        Here's my expedition report. I was expecting the temperature
        to get down to 32 deg F, but it only went as low as 35.
        Still, that's a new low for me. Here's the summary:

        Backpacking Log

        Site: Starkey Park
        Temp: 35 - 60
        Wind: light W
        Gear:
        -Tropical Hammock
        -Mountain Hardwear Backcountry 60
        -30 x 48 evazote shawl
        -Speer Pea Pod
        -Thinsulate poncho liner
        -polypro longjohns
        -100 wt fleece pants
        -300 wt fleece jacket
        Note: Can you tell this is a cold-weather test? I ended up
        using everything except the evazote shawl.

        Saturday
        3:40 pm 67 deg - pea pod
        5:30 pm 55 deg - polypro ljs, fleece pants, nylon pants and
        shirt
        7:20 pm 48 deg - hood and gloves, jacket on lap
        9:00 pm 42 deg - jacket on

        Sunday
        02:30 am 35 deg - pad, quilt
        07:30 am 35 deg
        10:00 am 55 deg

        And a detailed commentary:

        Marge, you asked me about all the extra gear, and I
        pooh-poohed your concern. What a dummy I can be. The CONCEPT
        of a 300 wt fleece jacket has neither weight nor volume, but
        the actual jacket itself, evidently, is a different matter.

        I used my CamelBak MotherLoad (rated at 1700 cu in) and it
        was as full as I've ever seen it. I managed to get
        everything inside except my evazote shawl and my poncho
        liner, which I rolled inside my sleeping pad. That made for
        a roll with an overall diameter of almost 1-1/2 feet (but a
        width of only 20 inches). I also had to strap the fleece
        jacket on the outside of the pack body.

        I took food for one day and three quarts of water. I had
        thought to lower my volume and weight by taking an Esbit
        cooking setup, but in the end I had no pots smaller than my
        mini Trangia, so I took that.

        One of my favorite times during an expedition is when I've
        arrive at camp and set up the hammock and tarp. Time for an
        hour's rest and reflection.

        I arrived at this moment at about 3:30 pm on Saturday. It
        was 67 degrees, and after a couple of minutes the chill on
        my back was enough to disrupt my reflections. So I got up
        and put on the Speer Pea Pod.

        I didn't close it in the middle with the dratted velcro, but
        cinched it at both ends. Hanging down a little loose in the
        middle, it still kept me nice and comfy. I drifted into a
        dreamy state of napular contemplation.

        One thing different this time... I put up my tarp on the
        diagonal as usual, but having no expectation of rain I
        untied the foot corner and doubled the tarp back on itself,
        so I had only a triangle of tarp, directly above my
        shoulders and head.

        I could look up at the trees and clouds, but stuff couldn't
        fall in my face.

        Looking up at the sky definitely made my hammock experience
        better. It was like sailing a canoe across the sky, only
        upside-down somehow, looking up into the depths.

        I tied a small carabiner onto the foot corner line, so I
        could pull the tarp back to full extension and clip it in
        place, should the weather turn rainy. It never did, though.
        Later that night I watched the stars wheel across the sky,
        and marked their progress against the branches.

        At 5:30 pm I got up and noted the temperature at 55 deg F.
        Still expecting it to get to freezing, I decided to put on
        all my clothing -- or at least the bottoms. It seems like my
        poor legs take the worst beating from the cold. So I put on
        polypro long johns, 100 wt fleece pants, and nylon pants. On
        top I had the long john top, a polypro t-shirt, and a nylon
        shirt. The only clothing I had left was my 300 wt fleece
        jacket, fleece hood, and gloves.

        I cooked dinner, radioed in to HQ (called Rita on the cell
        phone) and settled back into my hammock. I still had just
        the Pea Pod, but I sealed it up except for a two-foot
        opening around my head and torso. I actually felt a bit too
        warm.

        I've noticed that I'm really warm for a couple of hours
        after I eat dinner. I've never been able to reproduce that
        warmth with cold food eaten after I get settled in for the
        night. Maybe I'm eating the wrong cold food, or maybe the
        hot dinner and tea create most of the warmth.

        At 7:20 pm it had dropped to 48 degrees F. Time to put on my
        hood and gloves (thanks Marge!). I put my jacket over my
        lap, anticipating that I'd need it within the hour.

        At 9:00 pm I read the temperature as 42 deg F. I sat up and
        put on my jacket, but left it unzipped. I was still toasty.
        No cold spots. I was starting to get a bit sleepy, but had
        no doubt the temperature would wake me before long. I closed
        the Pea Pod except for a breathing hole.

        When I awoke with my legs and back cold, I was astonished to
        discover that it was 2:30 am on Sunday morning, and 35
        degrees F. My back was cold where it pressed into the
        hammock, and the tops of my legs were cold. (My legs are so
        odd that way.)

        I got up, determined to throw on everything I had. I slipped
        my combination pad between the layers of the hammock and
        folded my poncho liner into quarters to lay across the top
        of my legs. I set the ensile shawl on the ground within easy
        reach and settled back in for the next couple of hours.

        The next thing I knew, my hammock was pulling down the
        support trees, and they were crashing in on my face. The
        dream merged into reality, with the huge roar of a tree
        actually crashing down somewhere to my left and behind me. I
        scout my locations carefully for dangerous trees, so this
        one, being so near, took me by surprise.

        When I stuck my head out, it was light -- 7:30 am! I noted
        the temperature, still 35 deg F, tried in vain to spot the
        newly fallen tree, and snuggled back in for more sleep.

        I slept and daydreamed and put off the inevitable trip to
        the trees until 10:00 am, when it was a hospitable 55
        degrees. T-shirt weather in Florida again.

        I never did use the evazote shawl. It stayed on the ground
        all night, and I used it as a kneeling pad for breakfast the
        next day. Note: this stuff is fairly rough and open compared
        to my other pads. It really picked up dirt and stems and
        junk. I had quite a time cleaning it off before I could roll
        it back up.

        The fleece jacket and the Pea Pod kept me warm at the
        shoulders all night.

        I wonder why my legs get so cold? I think it might be
        because my torso throws off lots of heat and keeps the air
        above itself warm. But my legs don't throw off enough heat
        to warm the air above them, so they get cold on top. Not on
        the bottom though, once the pad is in place.

        Ed: I ate a good dinner and drank a couple of mouthfuls of
        water each time I got up. Hard to say if it helped, but I'll
        keep experimenting with the effects of food and water on
        cold weather sleeping.

        Overall, I think I might have gotten by with slightly less
        clothing. I wish I'd put it on a little at a time to see.
        The fleece layer was mostly because my legs get cold. I
        think the top blanket probably did as much good as the long
        johns and fleece pants.

        So the experiments must continue...

        That's all for now.

        Bear
      • David Chinell
        Ed: I d rather have a zipper than velcro, but you know that. I m really pleased with the Pea Pod, though, and like it more each time I use it. I ve toyed with
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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          Ed:

          I'd rather have a zipper than velcro, but you know that. I'm
          really pleased with the Pea Pod, though, and like it more
          each time I use it. I've toyed with the idea of fabricating
          a zipper to replace the velcro but it seems daunting.

          I'd also rather have plain drawstrings at the end, anchored
          at the middle and pulled from both sides. Don't really think
          I need the cord locks.

          Your preference for a single drawstring may arise from the
          single strap you use for a hammock line, but my hammock has
          two ropes at each end.

          After I've cinched the PP I'm left holding five or so feet
          of shoelace with no easy way to stow it.

          Also, because my hammock has no knot at the end, the PP
          tends to slip over the end and towards the middle.

          I've been using the 5 foot shoelace to wrap around the
          hammock line to prevent this slippage, but two shorter laces
          (one from either side) would still be better.

          Then I could cinch the PP, loop the strings around and
          between the hammock lines to prevent slippage, and tie the
          drawstrings to each other.

          I realize you're building the PP for your hammock design,
          not mine, but thought you might like to hear how it's going
          anyway.

          Bear
        • Ed Speer
          Thanks for the feedback Bear. I do remember our earlier conversation about zippers. I choose Velcro for 2 reasons--my sewer dosen t like large zippers (very
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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            Thanks for the feedback Bear.  I do remember our earlier conversation about zippers. I choose Velcro for 2 reasons--my sewer dosen't like large zippers (very hard to sew; ie greater labor cost) and I couldn't find the ideal zipper (one w/ 2 locking sliders mounted backwards to create open breather hole and one with end hardware that allows complete seperation so the PeaPod can be mounted around a hammock already suspended without having to untie one end).  Velcro meets both of these criteria. The chief zipper engineer at YKK, the largest zipper company, told me it couldn't be done w/ a currently-available zipper--but I still think I might be able to custom make one; although my early attempts were unsuccessful.
             
            I've considered a part-zipper-part-Velcro combination, but that too seems too complicated since I want to be able to create a breather hole whereever needed. I tried two non-locking sliders on an early prototype zipper, but that was a bad design because the sliders keep moving and opening the PP every time I turned over.  Some day, I will experiment again with the double-slider design.
             
            The Velcro is less handy than a zipper, but it never malfunctions either!  And I never have to search for the slider in the darkness. I feel comfortable knowing I can open the PP instantly at any place anytime I need to. Velcro allows me to conveniently create a breather hole as needed and it allows the PP to open fully to go around a hammock already set up--so I'm still with Velcro for the time being.
             
            I have already switched to the double drawstrings on each end like you mentioned--you're right, it's easier to handle in the field. You might try sewing the drawstrings on your PP in the middle to create an anchor point as you suggested--or have you done that already? I'd be glad to do it for you at no cost if you want to send the bag to me.
             
            I, too, use the cinched drawstrings to tie off the end of the PP to keep it from slipping toward the hammock.  Like you say, on my hammock the end knots make a handy anchor for tieing off the drawstrings.    I haven't tried omitting the cord locks--will give it a try.  Omit the cord locks--uummm, sometimes I too get caught up thinking inside the box.  Thanks...Ed

            Ed:

            I'd rather have a zipper than velcro, but you know that. I'm
            really pleased with the Pea Pod, though, and like it more
            each time I use it. I've toyed with the idea of fabricating
            a zipper to replace the velcro but it seems daunting.

            I'd also rather have plain drawstrings at the end, anchored
            at the middle and pulled from both sides. Don't really think
            I need the cord locks.

            Your preference for a single drawstring may arise from the
            single strap you use for a hammock line, but my hammock has
            two ropes at each end.

            After I've cinched the PP I'm left holding five or so feet
            of shoelace with no easy way to stow it.

            Also, because my hammock has no knot at the end, the PP
            tends to slip over the end and towards the middle.

            I've been using the 5 foot shoelace to wrap around the
            hammock line to prevent this slippage, but two shorter laces
            (one from either side) would still be better.

            Then I could cinch the PP, loop the strings around and
            between the hammock lines to prevent slippage, and tie the
            drawstrings to each other.

            I realize you're building the PP for your hammock design,
            not mine, but thought you might like to hear how it's going
            anyway.

            Bear



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          • David Chinell
            MessageEd: Glad I m not alone about the single vs. double drawstring thing. I did think of a possible zipper solution using readily available zippers. You d
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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              Ed:
               
              Glad I'm not alone about the single vs. double drawstring thing.
               
              I did think of a possible zipper solution using readily available zippers. You'd use an 18-inch separating zipper at each end, and a conventional separating, two-way sleeping bag zipper in the middle.
               
              That way you could make a variable sized hole (pretty) near your mouth no matter which end your mouth landed at. Or you could just give up and call one end the head and one the foot and use a conventional separating zipper in the middle.
               
              But I defer to your sewer's judgement. I'm just a novice, daydreaming at my desk.
               
              And I do agree with all your points about the velcro, too. I'm sure the more I use it the more comfortable I'll get with it.
               
              Bear
               
            • Ed Speer
              Thanks for the update Chet. Sounds like a wider pad would work for you; the rest of your set up sounds fine. About that call of nature , see my post about
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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                Thanks for the update Chet.  Sounds like a wider pad would work for you; the rest of your set up sounds fine.  About that "call of nature", see my post about using a pee bottle in a hammock!!...Ed
                 
                 
                Finally, spent my first night in the HH. I survived! Actually, I did
                quite well considering the conditions. 18 degrees F, 10 - 15 mph winds,
                and we got about an inch of snow. I used the set up as shown in my
                photos (although admittedly you can't see inside the hammock very well
                in the photos), which consists of a polyethylene pad 5/8" x  24 x 72,
                with a regular size windshield reflector on top of it. I used my High
                Peak 20 degree mummy bag as a blanket, and I wore a long sleeve
                lightweight running shirt beneath two medium weight fleece shirts, a
                fleece cap, standard cotton pajama bottoms beneath nylon lined running
                pants, and army surplus wool socks with fleece lined slippers. I also
                took my Columbia Bugaboo parka in the hammock with me, and stuffed it
                along the side edge of my pad to keep something between me and the
                hammock side when sleeping on my side.  I was nice and warm for most of
                the night, but a couple times when I woke up (I am very light sleeper,
                and constantly toss and turn even in my own bed) the outside of my upper
                arms were cold where I managed to move off the pad and had direct
                contact with the hammock. Also, getting up to answer natures call was a
                bit of a hassle, and I lay awake for some time trying to put that off
                (It's tuff to get out of a nice warm bundle and take a leak when it's 18
                degrees out!) . Anyway, I'd say my pad could stand to be at least 12 to
                16 inches wider on the upper half, and I should probably trim the
                corners off of the two diagonals that push out on the sides. Also, the
                canopy on the HH flapped around quite a bit when the wind picked up,
                even though I had tightened the guy lines using taut-line hitches before
                going to bed. After checking them this morning I found my knots had
                slipped. I think a bigger fly with a couple more tie out points would be
                nice. All in all I made out pretty good, and it beats the hell out
                sleeping on the ground.
                Chet




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              • Ed Speer
                Great report Bear! That s the kind of experimenting I do--adjust the various items throughout the night to see what works best. Yeh--falling trees would get
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 27, 2003
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                  Great report Bear!  That's the kind of experimenting I do--adjust the various items throughout the night to see what works best.  Yeh--falling trees would get my attention too!  Your description of sleeping in the hammock watching the night sky is excellent--I encourge everyone to remove their bug net and rain canopy every chance they get.  It adds a whole new deminsion to hammock camping...Ed
                  Gang:

                  Here's my expedition report. I was expecting the temperature
                  to get down to 32 deg F, but it only went as low as 35.
                  Still, that's a new low for me. Here's the summary:

                  Backpacking Log

                  Site: Starkey Park
                  Temp: 35 - 60
                  Wind: light W
                  Gear:
                  -Tropical Hammock
                  -Mountain Hardwear Backcountry 60
                  -30  x 48 evazote shawl
                  -Speer Pea Pod
                  -Thinsulate poncho liner
                  -polypro longjohns
                  -100 wt fleece pants
                  -300 wt fleece jacket
                  Note: Can you tell this is a cold-weather test? I ended up
                  using everything except the evazote shawl.

                  Saturday
                  3:40 pm 67 deg - pea pod
                  5:30 pm 55 deg - polypro ljs, fleece pants, nylon pants and
                  shirt
                  7:20 pm 48 deg - hood and gloves, jacket on lap
                  9:00 pm 42 deg - jacket on

                  Sunday
                  02:30 am 35 deg - pad, quilt
                  07:30 am 35 deg
                  10:00 am 55 deg

                  And a detailed commentary:

                  Marge, you asked me about all the extra gear, and I
                  pooh-poohed your concern. What a dummy I can be. The CONCEPT
                  of a 300 wt fleece jacket has neither weight nor volume, but
                  the actual jacket itself, evidently, is a different matter.

                  I used my CamelBak MotherLoad (rated at 1700 cu in) and it
                  was as full as I've ever seen it. I managed to get
                  everything inside except my evazote shawl and my poncho
                  liner, which I rolled inside my sleeping pad. That made for
                  a roll with an overall diameter of almost 1-1/2 feet (but a
                  width of only 20 inches). I also had to strap the fleece
                  jacket on the outside of the pack body.

                  I took food for one day and three quarts of water. I had
                  thought to lower my volume and weight by taking an Esbit
                  cooking setup, but in the end I had no pots smaller than my
                  mini Trangia, so I took that.

                  One of my favorite times during an expedition is when I've
                  arrive at camp and set up the hammock and tarp. Time for an
                  hour's rest and reflection.

                  I arrived at this moment at about 3:30 pm on Saturday. It
                  was 67 degrees, and after a couple of minutes the chill on
                  my back was enough to disrupt my reflections. So I got up
                  and put on the Speer Pea Pod.

                  I didn't close it in the middle with the dratted velcro, but
                  cinched it at both ends. Hanging down a little loose in the
                  middle, it still kept me nice and comfy. I drifted into a
                  dreamy state of napular contemplation.

                  One thing different this time... I put up my tarp on the
                  diagonal as usual, but having no expectation of rain I
                  untied the foot corner and doubled the tarp back on itself,
                  so I had only a triangle of tarp, directly above my
                  shoulders and head.

                  I could look up at the trees and clouds, but stuff couldn't
                  fall in my face.

                  Looking up at the sky definitely made my hammock experience
                  better. It was like sailing a canoe across the sky, only
                  upside-down somehow, looking up into the depths.

                  I tied a small carabiner onto the foot corner line, so I
                  could pull the tarp back to full extension and clip it in
                  place, should the weather turn rainy. It never did, though.
                  Later that night I watched the stars wheel across the sky,
                  and marked their progress against the branches.

                  At 5:30 pm I got up and noted the temperature at 55 deg F.
                  Still expecting it to get to freezing, I decided to put on
                  all my clothing -- or at least the bottoms. It seems like my
                  poor legs take the worst beating from the cold. So I put on
                  polypro long johns, 100 wt fleece pants, and nylon pants. On
                  top I had the long john top, a polypro t-shirt, and a nylon
                  shirt. The only clothing I had left was my 300 wt fleece
                  jacket, fleece hood, and gloves.

                  I cooked dinner, radioed in to HQ (called Rita on the cell
                  phone) and settled back into my hammock. I still had just
                  the Pea Pod, but I sealed it up except for a two-foot
                  opening around my head and torso. I actually felt a bit too
                  warm.

                  I've noticed that I'm really warm for a couple of hours
                  after I eat dinner. I've never been able to reproduce that
                  warmth with cold food eaten after I get settled in for the
                  night. Maybe I'm eating the wrong cold food, or maybe the
                  hot dinner and tea create most of the warmth.

                  At 7:20 pm it had dropped to 48 degrees F. Time to put on my
                  hood and gloves (thanks Marge!). I put my jacket over my
                  lap, anticipating that I'd need it within the hour.

                  At 9:00 pm I read the temperature as 42 deg F. I sat up and
                  put on my jacket, but left it unzipped. I was still toasty.
                  No cold spots. I was starting to get a bit sleepy, but had
                  no doubt the temperature would wake me before long. I closed
                  the Pea Pod except for a breathing hole.

                  When I awoke with my legs and back cold, I was astonished to
                  discover that it was 2:30 am on Sunday morning, and 35
                  degrees F. My back was cold where it pressed into the
                  hammock, and the tops of my legs were cold. (My legs are so
                  odd that way.)

                  I got up, determined to throw on everything I had. I slipped
                  my combination pad between the layers of the hammock and
                  folded my poncho liner into quarters to lay across the top
                  of my legs. I set the ensile shawl on the ground within easy
                  reach and settled back in for the next couple of hours.

                  The next thing I knew, my hammock was pulling down the
                  support trees, and they were crashing in on my face. The
                  dream merged into reality, with the huge roar of a tree
                  actually crashing down somewhere to my left and behind me. I
                  scout my locations carefully for dangerous trees, so this
                  one, being so near, took me by surprise.

                  When I stuck my head out, it was light -- 7:30 am! I noted
                  the temperature, still 35 deg F, tried in vain to spot the
                  newly fallen tree, and snuggled back in for more sleep.

                  I slept and daydreamed and put off the inevitable trip to
                  the trees until 10:00 am, when it was a hospitable 55
                  degrees. T-shirt weather in Florida again.

                  I never did use the evazote shawl. It stayed on the ground
                  all night, and I used it as a kneeling pad for breakfast the
                  next day. Note: this stuff is fairly rough and open compared
                  to my other pads. It really picked up dirt and stems and
                  junk. I had quite a time cleaning it off before I could roll
                  it back up.

                  The fleece jacket and the Pea Pod kept me warm at the
                  shoulders all night.

                  I wonder why my legs get so cold? I think it might be
                  because my torso throws off lots of heat and keeps the air
                  above itself warm. But my legs don't throw off enough heat
                  to warm the air above them, so they get cold on top. Not on
                  the bottom though, once the pad is in place.

                  Ed: I ate a good dinner and drank a couple of mouthfuls of
                  water each time I got up. Hard to say if it helped, but I'll
                  keep experimenting with the effects of food and water on
                  cold weather sleeping.

                  Overall, I think I might have gotten by with slightly less
                  clothing. I wish I'd put it on a little at a time to see.
                  The fleece layer was mostly because my legs get cold. I
                  think the top blanket probably did as much good as the long
                  johns and fleece pants.

                  So the experiments must continue...

                  That's all for now.

                  Bear



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                • starnescr <starnescr@yahoo.com>
                  Hi David Thanks for sharing. I v been too busy lately to just sit down and chat but I m finaly caught up, sorta. I was impressed that you got all your gear for
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 28, 2003
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                    Hi David

                    Thanks for sharing. I'v been too busy lately to just sit down and
                    chat but I'm finaly caught up, sorta. I was impressed that you got
                    all your gear for 2 nights using a 1700 cu in pack. Is this a
                    hydration/ adventure racer like pack.

                    Now to show my ignorance, What is an evazote shawl. I did a search
                    found nothing.

                    Coy Boy

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                    > Gang:
                    >
                    > Here's my expedition report. I was expecting the temperature
                    > to get down to 32 deg F, but it only went as low as 35.
                    > Still, that's a new low for me. Here's the summary:
                    >
                    > Backpacking Log
                    >
                    > Site: Starkey Park
                    > Temp: 35 - 60
                    > Wind: light W
                    > Gear:
                    > -Tropical Hammock
                    > -Mountain Hardwear Backcountry 60
                    > -30 x 48 evazote shawl
                    > -Speer Pea Pod
                    > -Thinsulate poncho liner
                    > -polypro longjohns
                    > -100 wt fleece pants
                    > -300 wt fleece jacket
                    > Note: Can you tell this is a cold-weather test? I ended up
                    > using everything except the evazote shawl.
                    >
                    > Saturday
                    > 3:40 pm 67 deg - pea pod
                    > 5:30 pm 55 deg - polypro ljs, fleece pants, nylon pants and
                    > shirt
                    > 7:20 pm 48 deg - hood and gloves, jacket on lap
                    > 9:00 pm 42 deg - jacket on
                    >
                    > Sunday
                    > 02:30 am 35 deg - pad, quilt
                    > 07:30 am 35 deg
                    > 10:00 am 55 deg
                    >
                    > And a detailed commentary:
                    >
                    > Marge, you asked me about all the extra gear, and I
                    > pooh-poohed your concern. What a dummy I can be. The CONCEPT
                    > of a 300 wt fleece jacket has neither weight nor volume, but
                    > the actual jacket itself, evidently, is a different matter.
                    >
                    > I used my CamelBak MotherLoad (rated at 1700 cu in) and it
                    > was as full as I've ever seen it. I managed to get
                    > everything inside except my evazote shawl and my poncho
                    > liner, which I rolled inside my sleeping pad. That made for
                    > a roll with an overall diameter of almost 1-1/2 feet (but a
                    > width of only 20 inches). I also had to strap the fleece
                    > jacket on the outside of the pack body.
                    >
                    > I took food for one day and three quarts of water. I had
                    > thought to lower my volume and weight by taking an Esbit
                    > cooking setup, but in the end I had no pots smaller than my
                    > mini Trangia, so I took that.
                    >
                    > One of my favorite times during an expedition is when I've
                    > arrive at camp and set up the hammock and tarp. Time for an
                    > hour's rest and reflection.
                    >
                    > I arrived at this moment at about 3:30 pm on Saturday. It
                    > was 67 degrees, and after a couple of minutes the chill on
                    > my back was enough to disrupt my reflections. So I got up
                    > and put on the Speer Pea Pod.
                    >
                    > I didn't close it in the middle with the dratted velcro, but
                    > cinched it at both ends. Hanging down a little loose in the
                    > middle, it still kept me nice and comfy. I drifted into a
                    > dreamy state of napular contemplation.
                    >
                    > One thing different this time... I put up my tarp on the
                    > diagonal as usual, but having no expectation of rain I
                    > untied the foot corner and doubled the tarp back on itself,
                    > so I had only a triangle of tarp, directly above my
                    > shoulders and head.
                    >
                    > I could look up at the trees and clouds, but stuff couldn't
                    > fall in my face.
                    >
                    > Looking up at the sky definitely made my hammock experience
                    > better. It was like sailing a canoe across the sky, only
                    > upside-down somehow, looking up into the depths.
                    >
                    > I tied a small carabiner onto the foot corner line, so I
                    > could pull the tarp back to full extension and clip it in
                    > place, should the weather turn rainy. It never did, though.
                    > Later that night I watched the stars wheel across the sky,
                    > and marked their progress against the branches.
                    >
                    > At 5:30 pm I got up and noted the temperature at 55 deg F.
                    > Still expecting it to get to freezing, I decided to put on
                    > all my clothing -- or at least the bottoms. It seems like my
                    > poor legs take the worst beating from the cold. So I put on
                    > polypro long johns, 100 wt fleece pants, and nylon pants. On
                    > top I had the long john top, a polypro t-shirt, and a nylon
                    > shirt. The only clothing I had left was my 300 wt fleece
                    > jacket, fleece hood, and gloves.
                    >
                    > I cooked dinner, radioed in to HQ (called Rita on the cell
                    > phone) and settled back into my hammock. I still had just
                    > the Pea Pod, but I sealed it up except for a two-foot
                    > opening around my head and torso. I actually felt a bit too
                    > warm.
                    >
                    > I've noticed that I'm really warm for a couple of hours
                    > after I eat dinner. I've never been able to reproduce that
                    > warmth with cold food eaten after I get settled in for the
                    > night. Maybe I'm eating the wrong cold food, or maybe the
                    > hot dinner and tea create most of the warmth.
                    >
                    > At 7:20 pm it had dropped to 48 degrees F. Time to put on my
                    > hood and gloves (thanks Marge!). I put my jacket over my
                    > lap, anticipating that I'd need it within the hour.
                    >
                    > At 9:00 pm I read the temperature as 42 deg F. I sat up and
                    > put on my jacket, but left it unzipped. I was still toasty.
                    > No cold spots. I was starting to get a bit sleepy, but had
                    > no doubt the temperature would wake me before long. I closed
                    > the Pea Pod except for a breathing hole.
                    >
                    > When I awoke with my legs and back cold, I was astonished to
                    > discover that it was 2:30 am on Sunday morning, and 35
                    > degrees F. My back was cold where it pressed into the
                    > hammock, and the tops of my legs were cold. (My legs are so
                    > odd that way.)
                    >
                    > I got up, determined to throw on everything I had. I slipped
                    > my combination pad between the layers of the hammock and
                    > folded my poncho liner into quarters to lay across the top
                    > of my legs. I set the ensile shawl on the ground within easy
                    > reach and settled back in for the next couple of hours.
                    >
                    > The next thing I knew, my hammock was pulling down the
                    > support trees, and they were crashing in on my face. The
                    > dream merged into reality, with the huge roar of a tree
                    > actually crashing down somewhere to my left and behind me. I
                    > scout my locations carefully for dangerous trees, so this
                    > one, being so near, took me by surprise.
                    >
                    > When I stuck my head out, it was light -- 7:30 am! I noted
                    > the temperature, still 35 deg F, tried in vain to spot the
                    > newly fallen tree, and snuggled back in for more sleep.
                    >
                    > I slept and daydreamed and put off the inevitable trip to
                    > the trees until 10:00 am, when it was a hospitable 55
                    > degrees. T-shirt weather in Florida again.
                    >
                    > I never did use the evazote shawl. It stayed on the ground
                    > all night, and I used it as a kneeling pad for breakfast the
                    > next day. Note: this stuff is fairly rough and open compared
                    > to my other pads. It really picked up dirt and stems and
                    > junk. I had quite a time cleaning it off before I could roll
                    > it back up.
                    >
                    > The fleece jacket and the Pea Pod kept me warm at the
                    > shoulders all night.
                    >
                    > I wonder why my legs get so cold? I think it might be
                    > because my torso throws off lots of heat and keeps the air
                    > above itself warm. But my legs don't throw off enough heat
                    > to warm the air above them, so they get cold on top. Not on
                    > the bottom though, once the pad is in place.
                    >
                    > Ed: I ate a good dinner and drank a couple of mouthfuls of
                    > water each time I got up. Hard to say if it helped, but I'll
                    > keep experimenting with the effects of food and water on
                    > cold weather sleeping.
                    >
                    > Overall, I think I might have gotten by with slightly less
                    > clothing. I wish I'd put it on a little at a time to see.
                    > The fleece layer was mostly because my legs get cold. I
                    > think the top blanket probably did as much good as the long
                    > johns and fleece pants.
                    >
                    > So the experiments must continue...
                    >
                    > That's all for now.
                    >
                    > Bear
                  • Marge Prothman
                    David, I just read your marvelous Expedition report. I managed to read it from Coy s email to you, I think I lost a number of emails when they all bounced due
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 28, 2003
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                      David,
                      I just read your marvelous Expedition report. I managed to read it from
                      Coy's email to you, I think I lost a number of emails when they all bounced
                      due to the worm that was spooking my internet provider for prothman.com. All
                      is fixed now, so I was delighted to read it.

                      I think you sounded very warm and toasty, I am not sure I would have liked
                      the tree coming down on me, I do not need that kind of adventure. My hammock
                      has been down for awhile and now I am going to put it back up and give it
                      another go in the backyard. We have had unseasonable warm weather and a
                      little rain, but maybe the temps will get back down below freezing for me to
                      give it another try. Thanks again for an entertaining read.

                      Cheers, Marge (the old gal)

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: starnescr <starnescr@...> [mailto:starnescr@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:29 PM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Expedition report - long
                    • David Chinell
                      Ed: I know you had a table of the various gear you use at different temperatures. It was in one of the issues of your newsletter, but I m having trouble
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                        Ed:

                        I know you had a table of the various gear you use at
                        different temperatures. It was in one of the issues of your
                        newsletter, but I'm having trouble getting to that site
                        online from your hammock pages.

                        Can you repost the text version of the table?

                        Bear
                      • David Chinell
                        Marge and all: Just in case it wasn t clear, no trees actually fell on me. It was a dream, brought about by the real sound of a tree falling somewhere near
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                          Marge and all:

                          Just in case it wasn't clear, no trees actually fell on me.
                          It was a dream, brought about by the real sound of a tree
                          falling somewhere near (but not on) me.

                          Bear
                        • David Chinell
                          Coy Boy: The CamelBak MotherLode is a 3L hydration pack that s more SWAT-like than GoLite-like. It appeals strictly to the boy in me. Try this:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                            Coy Boy:

                            The CamelBak MotherLode is a 3L hydration pack that's more
                            SWAT-like than GoLite-like. It appeals strictly to the boy
                            in me. Try this:

                            http://www.camelbak.com/mil/cb_prod.cfm?catid=6&product_id=9
                            0

                            I put the squishy stuff and food in the main bag, my shelter
                            in the lower pocket, and my kitchen in the upper pocket.
                            Fits great. If I could settle on a target width for my pads,
                            I'd look for a more lightweight pack, one that uses the pad
                            for an internal frame.

                            I coined the term "evazote shawl." Sorry for jargonning you.
                            It's a piece of 1/4-inch evazote that I cut down to 48 x 30
                            inches.

                            This provides extra-wide padding to keep my shoulders and
                            arms warm. In use, I wrap it around my shoulders (like a
                            shawl) while sitting up in the hammock, then lie down on it
                            to press it into place.

                            Bear
                          • Ed Speer
                            Bear, my gear vs temp table was in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping News. It s online for free viewing at:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                              Message
                              Bear, my gear vs temp table was in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping News.  It's online for free viewing at:  http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/Jan2003.htm
                               
                              Here it is again
                               How To Stay Warm In A Hammock using the Pea Pod

                                                                                       Temperature in Degrees F (no wind)

                               

                              +75

                              75-65

                              65-55

                              55-45

                              45-35

                              35-25

                              25-15

                              15-5

                              Fabric Treatment

                               

                               

                               

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              Pea Pod

                               

                               

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              Sleep Pads:

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                 1/4X22X47

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              x

                               

                              x

                              x

                                 1/2X24X54

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              Mylar Sheet

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              x

                              x

                              x

                              Inside Blanket:

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                 Thin Sheet

                              X

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                 Speer Top Blanket

                               

                              X

                              X

                              X

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                 30o F Sleeping Bag

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              X

                              X

                               

                               

                                 20o F Sleeping Bag

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              X

                              X

                              Clothes:

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                 Thermal Long johns

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                                    Lt wt

                            • David Chinell
                              MessageEd: Thanks. From www.speerhammocks.com I was clicking the Free! Hammock Camping Newsletter link. This returned an error page. I don t have any trouble
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                Message
                                Ed:
                                 
                                Thanks.
                                 
                                From www.speerhammocks.com I was clicking the "Free! Hammock Camping Newsletter" link. This returned an error page. I don't have any trouble with the link you gave in your reply.
                                 
                                Bear
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:19 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: Hammock Camping ED: Repost your temp vs. gear table?

                                Bear, my gear vs temp table was in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping News.  It's online for free viewing at:  http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/Jan2003.htm
                                 
                              • tcoug7 <tcoug7@aol.com>
                                Ed...I ran into same problem a couple days ago as Bear, thought you would like to know...Tim ... trouble with ... News.
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                  Ed...I ran into same problem a couple days ago as Bear, thought you
                                  would like to know...Tim



                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                  <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                  > MessageEd:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > From www.speerhammocks.com I was clicking the "Free! Hammock Camping
                                  > Newsletter" link. This returned an error page. I don't have any
                                  trouble with
                                  > the link you gave in your reply.
                                  >
                                  > Bear
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@s...]
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:19 AM
                                  > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: RE: Hammock Camping ED: Repost your temp vs. gear table?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Bear, my gear vs temp table was in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping
                                  News.
                                  > It's online for free viewing at:
                                  > http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/Jan2003.htm
                                • starnescr <starnescr@yahoo.com>
                                  Nice Pack. Pricy for it s size. BTW rhe link showed the H.A.W.G. but looking under military I found the Motherload. It is actually about the size pack I m
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                    Nice Pack. Pricy for it's size. BTW rhe link showed the H.A.W.G. but
                                    looking under military I found the Motherload. It is actually about
                                    the size pack I'm looking for for short overnights or maybe even 3
                                    day 2 night summer trips.

                                    I may have to make me one of those "evazorite shawls"

                                    Be carefull with that alcahol stove heater you mentioned. I know it
                                    was a joke but remembe to ventalate the fumes. LOL

                                    TC, What color are Urincycles? Yellow?

                                    Coy Boy

                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                    <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                    > Coy Boy:
                                    >
                                    > The CamelBak MotherLode is a 3L hydration pack that's more
                                    > SWAT-like than GoLite-like. It appeals strictly to the boy
                                    > in me. Try this:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.camelbak.com/mil/cb_prod.cfm?catid=6&product_id=9
                                    > 0
                                    >
                                    > I put the squishy stuff and food in the main bag, my shelter
                                    > in the lower pocket, and my kitchen in the upper pocket.
                                    > Fits great. If I could settle on a target width for my pads,
                                    > I'd look for a more lightweight pack, one that uses the pad
                                    > for an internal frame.
                                    >
                                    > I coined the term "evazote shawl." Sorry for jargonning you.
                                    > It's a piece of 1/4-inch evazote that I cut down to 48 x 30
                                    > inches.
                                    >
                                    > This provides extra-wide padding to keep my shoulders and
                                    > arms warm. In use, I wrap it around my shoulders (like a
                                    > shawl) while sitting up in the hammock, then lie down on it
                                    > to press it into place.
                                    >
                                    > Bear
                                  • Marge Prothman
                                    Bear, Now I am disillusioned, I thought the evazote shawl was going to be something more exotic than a piece of old padding. Cheers, Marge (the old gal) ...
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                      Bear,
                                      Now I am disillusioned, I thought the "evazote shawl" was going to be
                                      something more exotic than a piece of old padding.

                                      Cheers,
                                      Marge (the old gal)


                                      >
                                      > I coined the term "evazote shawl." Sorry for jargonning you. It's a
                                      > piece of 1/4-inch evazote that I cut down to 48 x 30 inches.
                                      >
                                      > This provides extra-wide padding to keep my shoulders and arms warm.
                                      > In use, I wrap it around my shoulders (like a
                                      > shawl) while sitting up in the hammock, then lie down on it to press
                                      > it into place.
                                      >
                                      > Bear


                                      T
                                    • Ed Speer
                                      Thanks Bear, I m working on the web site now and will check it out. Everytime I work on it I find problems! If I knew what I was doing, I d probably be
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                        Message
                                        Thanks Bear, I'm working on the web site now and will check it out. Everytime I work on it I find problems!  If I knew what I was doing, I'd probably be dangerous!...Ed
                                         
                                        Ed:
                                         
                                        Thanks.
                                         
                                        From www.speerhammocks.com I was clicking the "Free! Hammock Camping Newsletter" link. This returned an error page. I don't have any trouble with the link you gave in your reply.
                                         
                                        Bear
                                         
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:19 AM
                                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: Hammock Camping ED: Repost your temp vs. gear table?

                                        Bear, my gear vs temp table was in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping News.  It's online for free viewing at:  http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/Jan2003.htm
                                         
                                      • Ed Speer
                                        Yes Tim, thanks for the feedback--I need all the help I can get....Ed Ed...I ran into same problem a couple days ago as Bear, thought you would like to
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                          Message
                                          Yes Tim, thanks for the feedback--I need all the help I can get....Ed
                                           
                                          Ed...I ran into same problem a couple days ago as Bear, thought you
                                          would like to know...Tim
                                        • Ed Speer
                                          Thanks guys--I found the problem with that link on www.speerhammocks.com It was linked to the master file on my hard drive--so it worked every time I clicked
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 29, 2003
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                                            Message
                                            Thanks guys--I found the problem with that link on www.speerhammocks.com
                                            It was linked to the master file on my hard drive--so it worked every time I clicked it, but would not work for anyone else. I've fixed it now.  Greatly appreciate the feedback....Ed
                                             
                                            Ed...I ran into same problem a couple days ago as Bear, thought you
                                            would like to know...Tim

                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                            <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                            > MessageEd:
                                            >
                                            > Thanks.
                                            >
                                            > From www.speerhammocks.com I was clicking the "Free! Hammock Camping
                                            > Newsletter" link. This returned an error page. I don't have any
                                            trouble with
                                            > the link you gave in your reply.
                                            >
                                            > Bear
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.