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  • Coy
    I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the right thickness) It got down
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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      I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a
      blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the right
      thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
      working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
      camp. Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my pad.
      I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just starting to
      test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now. I realize
      that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect. I was
      the warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was the
      glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am asuming a
      thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad as
      I stayed warm all night. I dont think I sweated much after about 10
      pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if not
      all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
      feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
      zipping up, still not sweating though. I was wondering if some of
      the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
      condensation? Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
      just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did not
      get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get away
      from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
      issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
      think it about time. Should this help with condensation? Also
      would a real thick pad help? I know an insulated mug sweats less
      than a plain glass glass etc. I just dont want to need much over a
      3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down. Opinions?

      Coy Boy
    • Thomas Peltier
      I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the right thickness) It got down
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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        I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a
        blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the right
        thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
        working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
        camp.  Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my pad.
        I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just starting to
        test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now.  I realize
        that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect.  I was
        the  warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was the
        glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am asuming a
        thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad as
        I stayed warm all night.  I dont think I sweated much after about 10
        pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if not
        all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
        feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
        zipping up, still not sweating though.  I was wondering if some of
        the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
        condensation?  Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
        just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did not
        get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get away
        from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
        issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
        think it about time.  Should this help with condensation?  Also
        would a real thick pad help?  I know an insulated mug sweats less
        than a plain glass glass etc.  I just dont want to need much over a
        3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down.  Opinions?

        Coy Boy


        Coy,

         

        I did not have any condensation issues but we were near 10,000 feet in the Southern Sierra Nevada ’s in Mid September.  There was not a lot of dew on the ground either.  I did not sleep with a  tarp over me as it blew off when the grommets ripped out and experienced no dew on myself in the morning.  There was also a light breeze blowing any water away.  I don’t know that the lack of condensation had anything to due with my setup so much as it had to due with the conditions were I camped.

         

      • Coy
        ... right ... pad. ... to ... was ... a ... as ... 10 ... not ... not ... a ... feet in the ... dew on ... blew off when ... morning. ... know that the ... it
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Peltier"
          <Thomas@G...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a
          > blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the
          right
          > thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
          > working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
          > camp. Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my
          pad.
          > I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just starting
          to
          > test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now. I realize
          > that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect. I
          was
          > the warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was the
          > glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am asuming
          a
          > thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad
          as
          > I stayed warm all night. I dont think I sweated much after about
          10
          > pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if
          not
          > all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
          > feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
          > zipping up, still not sweating though. I was wondering if some of
          > the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
          > condensation? Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
          > just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did
          not
          > get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get away
          > from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
          > issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
          > think it about time. Should this help with condensation? Also
          > would a real thick pad help? I know an insulated mug sweats less
          > than a plain glass glass etc. I just dont want to need much over
          a
          > 3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down. Opinions?
          >
          > Coy Boy
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Coy,
          >
          >
          >
          > I did not have any condensation issues but we were near 10,000
          feet in the
          > Southern Sierra Nevada's in Mid September. There was not a lot of
          dew on
          > the ground either. I did not sleep with a tarp over me as it
          blew off when
          > the grommets ripped out and experienced no dew on myself in the
          morning.
          > There was also a light breeze blowing any water away. I don't
          know that the
          > lack of condensation had anything to due with my setup so much as
          it had to
          > due with the conditions were I camped.

          That probably explains most of the differances in condensation
          experienced. So to solve my problem I just need to move my campsite
          just a little west.

          Coy Boy
        • Coy
          Just a few more thoughts. I just looked at the Claysville site for more detailed info. Knowing thet the Low overnight is usually close to the dewpiont I found
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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            Just a few more thoughts.

            I just looked at the Claysville site for more detailed info.
            Knowing thet the Low overnight is usually close to the dewpiont I
            found this interesting. Current duepoint at 10 50 AM is 53, real
            close to the low of 52 last night. Your trip low was mid thirtys
            say 35 so I can assume the due point was around 35. So this is
            lower . FWIW there was no due last night as it was quite breezy all
            night long. I was awakened several times by acorns pelting my fly
            which was pulled back over the lower half only so I was getting a
            good breeze inside. If the due point was in the mid thirtys and the
            temps matched can i assume i would have had little if any
            condensation? BTW right now it is 71 with 8 mph winds with gust to
            20. It was like that last night as well just cooler.

            Coy Boy

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Peltier"
            > <Thomas@G...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition,
            a
            > > blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the
            > right
            > > thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
            > > working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
            > > camp. Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my
            > pad.
            > > I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just
            starting
            > to
            > > test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now. I realize
            > > that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect. I
            > was
            > > the warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was
            the
            > > glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am
            asuming
            > a
            > > thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad
            > as
            > > I stayed warm all night. I dont think I sweated much after
            about
            > 10
            > > pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if
            > not
            > > all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
            > > feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
            > > zipping up, still not sweating though. I was wondering if some
            of
            > > the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
            > > condensation? Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
            > > just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did
            > not
            > > get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get
            away
            > > from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
            > > issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
            > > think it about time. Should this help with condensation? Also
            > > would a real thick pad help? I know an insulated mug sweats
            less
            > > than a plain glass glass etc. I just dont want to need much
            over
            > a
            > > 3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down. Opinions?
            > >
            > > Coy Boy
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Coy,
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I did not have any condensation issues but we were near 10,000
            > feet in the
            > > Southern Sierra Nevada's in Mid September. There was not a lot
            of
            > dew on
            > > the ground either. I did not sleep with a tarp over me as it
            > blew off when
            > > the grommets ripped out and experienced no dew on myself in the
            > morning.
            > > There was also a light breeze blowing any water away. I don't
            > know that the
            > > lack of condensation had anything to due with my setup so much
            as
            > it had to
            > > due with the conditions were I camped.
            >
            > That probably explains most of the differances in condensation
            > experienced. So to solve my problem I just need to move my
            campsite
            > just a little west.
            >
            > Coy Boy
          • Dave Womble
            Coy, First a question, what does IIRC mean when you state: blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC ? The condensation that you are experiencing is because
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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              Coy,

              First a question, what does 'IIRC' mean when you state: "blue foam
              target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC " ?

              The condensation that you are experiencing is because of your
              insensible perspiration and the moisture is collecting against the
              non-breathable vapor barrier that your pad presents. I don't think
              adding a thicker pad will change that.

              When we sleep on the ground, we toss and turn all night. The
              moisture from our insensible perspiration has a chance to evaporate
              into the surrounding air before we have any significant moisture
              buildup because of this frequent turning.

              When we sleep on a hammock, we sleep comfortably on our backs pretty
              much all night. The insensible perspiration that our back-side
              generates is trapped between our body and the non-breathable vapor
              barrier of our sleeping pad. One solution is to utilize a 'high
              wicking fabric' against the non-breathable pad. Fleece blankets or
              fleece clothing apparently helps with this. I haven't noticed
              mositure problems using my two-layer hammock with the pad sandwiched
              between the two layers of rip-stop nylon. I suspect that 'Shane's
              Ultimate Pad' doesn't have moisture buildup problems because he wraps
              his non-breathable pads with a 'high wicking fabric'. Did you have
              moisture buildup when you used your Refectix/fleece pad? Another
              solution is to use breathable insulation, like Thomas did with the
              Neat Sheet and Ed does with his Pea Pod.

              I think condensation occurs when you use the mylar space blanket
              suspended under a hammock and you have the moist warm air (A lot of
              it from your insensible perspiration) in contact with the cooler
              surface of the space blanket. In Thomas's case, he used a breathable
              Neat Sheet that is also a 'high wicking fabric', so he probably
              didn't have a moisture buildup problem.

              When I have slept all night on my backside directly on a closed cell
              foam pad, I have had the moisture buildup that you mentioned and it
              wet my sleeping bag where it contacted the moisture. When I used a
              RidgeRest or Zrest, the moisture was pretty much contained in the
              large open surface cells of the pads and didn't wet my sleeping bag.
              What I did was to recognise that it was insensible perspiration and
              then find ways to deal with it. It might be as simple as to just
              sleep on your side for some periods during the night.

              Youngblood


              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
              > I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition, a
              > blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the
              right
              > thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
              > working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
              > camp. Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my
              pad.
              > I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just starting
              to
              > test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now. I realize
              > that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect. I was
              > the warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was the
              > glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am asuming a
              > thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad as
              > I stayed warm all night. I dont think I sweated much after about
              10
              > pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if not
              > all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
              > feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
              > zipping up, still not sweating though. I was wondering if some of
              > the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
              > condensation? Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
              > just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did not
              > get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get away
              > from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
              > issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
              > think it about time. Should this help with condensation? Also
              > would a real thick pad help? I know an insulated mug sweats less
              > than a plain glass glass etc. I just dont want to need much over a
              > 3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down. Opinions?
              >
              > Coy Boy
            • Thomas Peltier
              That probably explains most of the differances in condensation experienced. So to solve my problem I just need to move my campsite just a little west. Coy Boy
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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                That probably explains most of the differances in condensation
                experienced. So to solve my problem I just need to move my campsite
                just a little west.

                Coy Boy

                 

                That is one solution.  Unfortunately those conditions are not always that way so I’m hoping you can find another solution so I can learn from your wet nights.

                 

                J 

                 

                Tom

              • Coy
                IIRC = if I recall/remember correctly meaning I wasnt sure about the Target pads thickness. Now is insensible perspiration some kind of insult. LOL I know I
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 16, 2003
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                  IIRC = if I recall/remember correctly meaning I wasnt sure about the
                  Target pads thickness.

                  Now is insensible perspiration some kind of insult. LOL I know I
                  sweat like a pig. Seriously, then Thomas besides having slept at a
                  lower due point/less humidity, was on a breathable surface and could
                  have put out as much moisture as I did but it was able to
                  evaporate. I did sleep on my back in the same position all night.
                  And my reflectix with fleece seems to help but not completly
                  eliminate condensation which the fleece cove helps ficilatate. In
                  this casr even a waterproog lower blanket under the hammock could
                  help as there would be some air movement to help manage the moisture
                  as fast as i produce it. Breathable would only be more so. Thanks
                  for the info.

                  Coy Boy



                  -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Coy,
                  >
                  > First a question, what does 'IIRC' mean when you state: "blue foam
                  > target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC " ?
                  >
                  > The condensation that you are experiencing is because of your
                  > insensible perspiration and the moisture is collecting against the
                  > non-breathable vapor barrier that your pad presents. I don't
                  think
                  > adding a thicker pad will change that.
                  >
                  > When we sleep on the ground, we toss and turn all night. The
                  > moisture from our insensible perspiration has a chance to
                  evaporate
                  > into the surrounding air before we have any significant moisture
                  > buildup because of this frequent turning.
                  >
                  > When we sleep on a hammock, we sleep comfortably on our backs
                  pretty
                  > much all night. The insensible perspiration that our back-side
                  > generates is trapped between our body and the non-breathable vapor
                  > barrier of our sleeping pad. One solution is to utilize a 'high
                  > wicking fabric' against the non-breathable pad. Fleece blankets
                  or
                  > fleece clothing apparently helps with this. I haven't noticed
                  > mositure problems using my two-layer hammock with the pad
                  sandwiched
                  > between the two layers of rip-stop nylon. I suspect that 'Shane's
                  > Ultimate Pad' doesn't have moisture buildup problems because he
                  wraps
                  > his non-breathable pads with a 'high wicking fabric'. Did you
                  have
                  > moisture buildup when you used your Refectix/fleece pad? Another
                  > solution is to use breathable insulation, like Thomas did with the
                  > Neat Sheet and Ed does with his Pea Pod.
                  >
                  > I think condensation occurs when you use the mylar space blanket
                  > suspended under a hammock and you have the moist warm air (A lot
                  of
                  > it from your insensible perspiration) in contact with the cooler
                  > surface of the space blanket. In Thomas's case, he used a
                  breathable
                  > Neat Sheet that is also a 'high wicking fabric', so he probably
                  > didn't have a moisture buildup problem.
                  >
                  > When I have slept all night on my backside directly on a closed
                  cell
                  > foam pad, I have had the moisture buildup that you mentioned and
                  it
                  > wet my sleeping bag where it contacted the moisture. When I used
                  a
                  > RidgeRest or Zrest, the moisture was pretty much contained in the
                  > large open surface cells of the pads and didn't wet my sleeping
                  bag.
                  > What I did was to recognise that it was insensible perspiration
                  and
                  > then find ways to deal with it. It might be as simple as to just
                  > sleep on your side for some periods during the night.
                  >
                  > Youngblood
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > > I did a short overnight hike last night using my HH Expedition,
                  a
                  > > blue foam target pad 72 x 27 x 3/8 IIRC (not sure if thats the
                  > right
                  > > thickness) It got down to 52 last night looking at the closeest
                  > > working weather bug station in Claysville about 5 miles from my
                  > > camp. Anyways I had some serious condensation on the top of my
                  > pad.
                  > > I was using a Mountaismith Wisp 30 deg bag that I'm just
                  starting
                  > to
                  > > test for BGT. It is out drying on the deck right now. I realize
                  > > that the same principal as a glass of ice tea was in effect. I
                  was
                  > > the warm air outside of the glass so to speak and the pad was
                  the
                  > > glass and the air cool air below me was the ice tea. I am
                  asuming a
                  > > thicker pad would cut down on this but i dont need a thicker pad
                  as
                  > > I stayed warm all night. I dont think I sweated much after
                  about
                  > 10
                  > > pm and was still dry at that time so the moisture was mostly if
                  not
                  > > all condensation. I left the half zip Wisp open till I woke up
                  > > feeling a little cool about 2 AM but felt a little warm after
                  > > zipping up, still not sweating though. I was wondering if some
                  of
                  > > the recent neat sheet and coleman blanket users had much
                  > > condensation? Someone justask about it but i forget the name. I
                  > > just read Thomas's trip report and he used a neat sheet and did
                  not
                  > > get condensation in the mid 30s so I'm thinking I need to get
                  away
                  > > from pads and try som under insulation except for the entry hole
                  > > issues. I still have not built a Garlington type insulator but I
                  > > think it about time. Should this help with condensation? Also
                  > > would a real thick pad help? I know an insulated mug sweats
                  less
                  > > than a plain glass glass etc. I just dont want to need much
                  over a
                  > > 3/4 inch pad just to keep the condensation down. Opinions?
                  > >
                  > > Coy Boy
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