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underquilt proto results

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  • ciyd01
    I slept last night using the prototype underquilt for my Hennessey UL Backpacker Asym. It weighed just over 1 pound but lacked the needed velcro, so weight is
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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      I slept last night using the prototype underquilt for my Hennessey UL
      Backpacker Asym. It weighed just over 1 pound but lacked the needed
      velcro, so weight is not final. Also, the fabrics used are about 3X
      the weight of what the final prototype will use. The insulation was
      polyester quilt batting found at the local sewing stores. I used a
      double layer giving me about 1.5" of loft. I highly recommend using
      this stuff for prototypes as it's inexpensive, readily available, and
      easy to work with. The prototype is asymetrical, so finished
      dimensions are, well, weird. It was 71 inches long, ~32 inches at
      the shoulder and knee, 22 inches at the head and foot. It was
      attached to the hammock with shock cord rather messily tied to the
      plastic rings at the tie out corners and the support ropes. There is
      a bottom slit opening compatible with the hammock opening and it was
      attached to this using 6 safety pins (I didn't get velcro sewn on).

      Last night was cool, light rain, light winds. I set it up in my back
      yard which is sheltered from the wind. Unfortunately, my lack of
      mature trees requires it be tied off to fence posts and, due to the
      geometry of my yard and the difficulty in a 5' tall woman to tie crap
      off to a wooden fence, my butt actually touched the ground most of
      the night. The rain fly is wide enough to provide significant
      shelter to a nearby azalea bush, which wanted rain more than
      shelter. I place an open cell foam pad on the ground below the
      hammock where I was making contact with the ground. This was an
      attempt to keep the underquilt dry and clean.

      I slept in my normal cool weather jammies: cotton t shirt, men's
      large, cotton sweat pants, men's large, cotton undies and cotton
      socks. I used a Polargard 3D sleeping bag, Sierra Designs Amelia
      Earhart Regular rated at 15F, as a quilt with the bottom zipped up as
      a foot box. I did not wear a hat, gloves or Moonstone vest. I sleep
      very cold my summer 35F bag would not have been warm enough for 50
      degree weather.

      At midnight, the temperature was 67 inside the hammock and it was
      humid but no rain was falling. At 5 am, the temp inside the hammock
      was 51F and a light, steady rain was falling. I slept from midnight
      to 8 am. I woke at 5 am, I think one of my neighbors putting out
      trash woke me up.

      Results: Not once did I feel cold. I didn't have to fight with the
      closed cell foam pad to keep it under me. I could toss and turn
      without worrying I might hit a cold spot. My feet were a bit chilly
      if out of the footbox of the sleeping bag, but that's normal for me.
      All in all, I was warm and toasty throughout the night.

      The quilt did get wet. Laying on the ground, part of it got pretty
      well soaked but it continued to keep me warm.

      Things I will change: make the thing wider and longer. I'm only 60
      inches long, but with feet pointed and an arm under my head, I use up
      almost all of the length of the underquilt and if I slide up or down,
      I could end up with a serious cold spot. I plan to make the quilt 6
      inches longer. Wider. I'm may add 6 inches to the finished width,
      especally at the shoulders and feet. The knee area seemed adequate
      but the shoulder area isn't. I may also add attachment points to the
      long sides of the quilt, which may be why the quilt felt narrower
      than it was. It will also prevent the quilt from sagging and touching
      wet stuff around it. I plan on making the outside fabric EPIC, which
      is a WPB with a Silnyon GI for really rainy winter weather.

      I can't believe that the cheap materials I used made such a huge
      difference, but they did. I'm curious to see how the final product
      works. I'm ordering the materials today.

      ciyd
    • Ed Speer
      Ciyd, making your own gear is so neat, isn t it? And when it works, it s really neat! Keep up the good work...Ed
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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        Message
        Ciyd, making your own gear is so neat, isn't it?  And when it works, it's really neat!  Keep up the good work...Ed
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: ciyd01 [mailto:ciyd@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:51 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Hammock Camping underquilt proto results

        I slept last night using the prototype underquilt for my Hennessey UL
        Backpacker Asym.  It weighed just over 1 pound but lacked the needed
        velcro, so weight is not final.  Also, the fabrics used are about 3X
        the weight of what the final prototype will use. The insulation was
        polyester quilt batting found at the local sewing stores.  I used a
        double layer giving me about 1.5" of loft.  I highly recommend using
        this stuff for prototypes as it's inexpensive, readily available, and
        easy to work with.  The prototype is asymetrical, so finished
        dimensions are, well, weird.  It was 71 inches long, ~32 inches at
        the shoulder and knee, 22 inches at the head and foot.  It was
        attached to the hammock with shock cord rather messily tied to the
        plastic rings at the tie out corners and the support ropes.  There is
        a bottom slit opening compatible with the hammock opening and it was
        attached to this using 6 safety pins (I didn't get velcro sewn on).

        Last night was cool, light rain, light winds.  I set it up in my back
        yard which is sheltered from the wind.  Unfortunately, my lack of
        mature trees requires it be tied off to fence posts and, due to the
        geometry of my yard and the difficulty in a 5' tall woman to tie crap
        off to a wooden fence, my butt actually touched the ground most of
        the night.  The rain fly is wide enough to provide significant
        shelter to a nearby azalea bush, which wanted rain more than
        shelter.  I place an open cell foam pad on the ground below the
        hammock where I was making contact with the ground.  This was an
        attempt to keep the underquilt dry and clean.

        I slept in my normal cool weather jammies:  cotton t shirt, men's
        large, cotton sweat pants, men's large, cotton undies and cotton
        socks.  I used a Polargard 3D sleeping bag, Sierra Designs Amelia
        Earhart Regular rated at 15F, as a quilt with the bottom zipped up as
        a foot box.  I did not wear a hat, gloves or Moonstone vest.  I sleep
        very cold my summer 35F bag would not have been warm enough for 50
        degree weather.

        At midnight, the temperature was 67 inside the hammock and it was
        humid but no rain was falling.  At 5 am, the temp inside the hammock
        was 51F and a light, steady rain was falling.  I slept from midnight
        to 8 am.  I woke at 5 am, I think one of my neighbors putting out
        trash woke me up.

        Results:  Not once did I feel cold.  I didn't have to fight with the
        closed cell foam pad to keep it under me.  I could toss and turn
        without worrying I might hit a cold spot.  My feet were a bit chilly
        if out of the footbox of the sleeping bag, but that's normal for me. 
        All in all, I was warm and toasty throughout the night.

        The quilt did get wet.  Laying on the ground, part of it got pretty
        well soaked but it continued to keep me warm.

        Things I will change:  make the thing wider and longer.  I'm only 60
        inches long, but with feet pointed and an arm under my head, I use up
        almost all of the length of the underquilt and if I slide up or down,
        I could end up with a serious cold spot.  I plan to make the quilt 6
        inches longer.  Wider.  I'm may add 6 inches to the finished width,
        especally at the shoulders and feet.  The knee area seemed adequate
        but the shoulder area isn't.  I may also add attachment points to the
        long sides of the quilt, which may be why the quilt felt narrower
        than it was. It will also prevent the quilt from sagging and touching
        wet stuff around it.  I plan on making the outside fabric EPIC, which
        is a WPB with a Silnyon GI for really rainy winter weather.

        I can't believe that the cheap materials I used made such a huge
        difference, but they did.  I'm curious to see how the final product
        works.  I'm ordering the materials today. 

        ciyd




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      • Mirage
        Hey ciyd, thanks for your post on the results of your prototype. Very cool to hear of your results and compare them to mine. I also tested out the third
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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          Hey ciyd, thanks for your post on the results of your prototype.
          Very cool to hear of your results and compare them to mine. I also
          tested out the third version of my underquilt this last weekend. I
          posted a trip report on the list.

          BTW, I've not heard of EPIC fabric, what can you tell me about it?
          I REALLY hated sewing the Silnyl, especially when I had two sew two
          layers of it together. I like your idea of a GI out of it thought.
          The only problem I have with the whole GI thing is the noise it
          would create in the wind. Guess I'll have to remember to start
          packing ear plugs.

          Well, anyway, I'd love to learn and see more of your work. I'll
          post some pics of mine in a few days too.

          Good luck and keep up the good work.

          Shane "Mirage"...

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ciyd01" <ciyd@a...> wrote:
          > I slept last night using the prototype underquilt for my Hennessey
          UL
          > Backpacker Asym. It weighed just over 1 pound but lacked the
          needed
          > velcro, so weight is not final. Also, the fabrics used are about
          3X
          > the weight of what the final prototype will use. The insulation
          was
          > polyester quilt batting found at the local sewing stores. I used
          a
          > double layer giving me about 1.5" of loft. I highly recommend
          using
          > this stuff for prototypes as it's inexpensive, readily available,
          and
          > easy to work with. The prototype is asymetrical, so finished
          > dimensions are, well, weird. It was 71 inches long, ~32 inches at
          > the shoulder and knee, 22 inches at the head and foot. It was
          > attached to the hammock with shock cord rather messily tied to the
          > plastic rings at the tie out corners and the support ropes. There
          is
          > a bottom slit opening compatible with the hammock opening and it
          was
          > attached to this using 6 safety pins (I didn't get velcro sewn on).
          >
          > Last night was cool, light rain, light winds. I set it up in my
          back
          > yard which is sheltered from the wind. Unfortunately, my lack of
          > mature trees requires it be tied off to fence posts and, due to
          the
          > geometry of my yard and the difficulty in a 5' tall woman to tie
          crap
          > off to a wooden fence, my butt actually touched the ground most of
          > the night. The rain fly is wide enough to provide significant
          > shelter to a nearby azalea bush, which wanted rain more than
          > shelter. I place an open cell foam pad on the ground below the
          > hammock where I was making contact with the ground. This was an
          > attempt to keep the underquilt dry and clean.
          >
          > I slept in my normal cool weather jammies: cotton t shirt, men's
          > large, cotton sweat pants, men's large, cotton undies and cotton
          > socks. I used a Polargard 3D sleeping bag, Sierra Designs Amelia
          > Earhart Regular rated at 15F, as a quilt with the bottom zipped up
          as
          > a foot box. I did not wear a hat, gloves or Moonstone vest. I
          sleep
          > very cold my summer 35F bag would not have been warm enough for 50
          > degree weather.
          >
          > At midnight, the temperature was 67 inside the hammock and it was
          > humid but no rain was falling. At 5 am, the temp inside the
          hammock
          > was 51F and a light, steady rain was falling. I slept from
          midnight
          > to 8 am. I woke at 5 am, I think one of my neighbors putting out
          > trash woke me up.
          >
          > Results: Not once did I feel cold. I didn't have to fight with
          the
          > closed cell foam pad to keep it under me. I could toss and turn
          > without worrying I might hit a cold spot. My feet were a bit
          chilly
          > if out of the footbox of the sleeping bag, but that's normal for
          me.
          > All in all, I was warm and toasty throughout the night.
          >
          > The quilt did get wet. Laying on the ground, part of it got
          pretty
          > well soaked but it continued to keep me warm.
          >
          > Things I will change: make the thing wider and longer. I'm only
          60
          > inches long, but with feet pointed and an arm under my head, I use
          up
          > almost all of the length of the underquilt and if I slide up or
          down,
          > I could end up with a serious cold spot. I plan to make the quilt
          6
          > inches longer. Wider. I'm may add 6 inches to the finished
          width,
          > especally at the shoulders and feet. The knee area seemed
          adequate
          > but the shoulder area isn't. I may also add attachment points to
          the
          > long sides of the quilt, which may be why the quilt felt narrower
          > than it was. It will also prevent the quilt from sagging and
          touching
          > wet stuff around it. I plan on making the outside fabric EPIC,
          which
          > is a WPB with a Silnyon GI for really rainy winter weather.
          >
          > I can't believe that the cheap materials I used made such a huge
          > difference, but they did. I'm curious to see how the final
          product
          > works. I'm ordering the materials today.
          >
          > ciyd
        • Ray Garlington
          ... This has not been a problem. I ve had it in gusts to about 30 and the wind just luffs over the top of the hammock, just as though the GI was the hammock
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <web_dawg@y...> wrote:
            > The only problem I have with the whole GI thing is the noise it
            > would create in the wind. Guess I'll have to remember to start
            > packing ear plugs.
            >

            This has not been a problem. I've had it in gusts to about 30 and
            the wind just luffs over the top of the hammock, just as though the
            GI was the hammock body itself.
          • Mirage
            Thanks Ray, very good to know. I ve not tried it yet, but given the problem with wind I had last weekend I was a bit skeptical. It s always better to hear
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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              Thanks Ray, very good to know. I've not tried it yet, but given the
              problem with wind I had last weekend I was a bit skeptical. It's
              always better to hear from those with actual experience.


              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
              <rgarling@y...> wrote:
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <web_dawg@y...>
              wrote:
              > > The only problem I have with the whole GI thing is the noise it
              > > would create in the wind. Guess I'll have to remember to start
              > > packing ear plugs.
              > >
              >
              > This has not been a problem. I've had it in gusts to about 30 and
              > the wind just luffs over the top of the hammock, just as though
              the
              > GI was the hammock body itself.
            • ciyd01
              ... How big is your rainfly? The HH rainfly is plenty big to keep rain out of the hammock, but may not be big enough to keep the GI from blowing around.
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                <rgarling@y...> wrote:
                > This has not been a problem. I've had it in gusts to about 30 and
                > the wind just luffs over the top of the hammock, just as though the
                > GI was the hammock body itself.

                How big is your rainfly? The HH rainfly is plenty big to keep rain
                out of the hammock, but may not be big enough to keep the GI from
                blowing around. Haven't tried it yet, so I'm not sure.

                ciyd
              • ciyd01
                Shane, I read your trip report and it seems that the underquilt works. Now for the tweaking .... Epic fabric is made by Nextec and is a non-laminated
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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                  Shane,

                  I read your trip report and it seems that the underquilt works. Now
                  for the tweaking ....

                  Epic fabric is made by Nextec and is a non-laminated waterproof
                  breathable fabric used for sleeping bags and jackets. It's weave is
                  tight enough to be downproof. I'm hoping it's more breathable than
                  GoreTex but I've also read that Event is even more breathable than
                  Epic. I can get Epic at OWFINC, but it's pricey.

                  With all the rain we get here and the fact that the underquilt will
                  be exposed to the elements, including splash, I think a WPB would be
                  best for the outside fabric of the underquilt. Like you, I'm going
                  with synthetic fill because of our wet (and humid) winters here in
                  the PNW, but I'm sure that those folks that hike in drier climes
                  would have good success with down and maybe just a DWR coated nylon
                  for the outer layer.

                  Sewing Silnyon is a beast, but I'm getting ok at it. It takes a lot
                  of tweaking on my crappy sewing machine to get the thread tensions
                  right and, even then, the fabric is so thin, it's still on the edge.
                  I'm going to try a couple of tips I picked up talking to some ladies
                  in town who sew with really lightweight polyesters and silks and see
                  if they they apply to silnylon. Tape, including duct tape, does not
                  stick to silnylon. Fray check does not stick to silnylon. Pins
                  cause holes that need to be sealed. I tend to finger tack everything
                  (hold everything tightly with your fingers and pray for the best).

                  Post some pictures of your quilt if you get a chance.

                  ciyd

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <web_dawg@y...> wrote:
                  > BTW, I've not heard of EPIC fabric, what can you tell me about it?
                  > I REALLY hated sewing the Silnyl, especially when I had two sew two
                  > layers of it together. I like your idea of a GI out of it
                  thought.
                  > The only problem I have with the whole GI thing is the noise it
                  > would create in the wind. Guess I'll have to remember to start
                  > packing ear plugs.
                • ciyd01
                  ... Absolutely! I also like the ability to cut it to the right size. I m not very tall and most sleeping bags and pads are just way too long (even the women s
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                    > Ciyd, making your own gear is so neat, isn't it? And when it works,
                    > it's really neat! Keep up the good work...Ed
                    >

                    Absolutely! I also like the ability to cut it to the right size.
                    I'm not very tall and most sleeping bags and pads are just way too
                    long (even the women's short only go down to 5'6"). And having it
                    actually work the way I intended it to is very satisfying. I tend to
                    design something in my head and then virtually build and use it.
                    Then I tweak the design and put it on paper. I might go 3 weeks
                    between paper design and actual construction but I've done at least 8
                    revisions in that time, so my first protos are pretty close.

                    I guess I'll always be an engineer ....

                    ciyd
                  • uluheman
                    Ciyd-- If you can get a walking foot for your machine, you will probably find that sewing silnylon becomes much easier. You might still have to fiddle with the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 9, 2003
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                      Ciyd--

                      If you can get a walking foot for your machine, you will probably
                      find that sewing silnylon becomes much easier. You might still have
                      to fiddle with the tension, but controlling the fabric as you're
                      actually sewing becomes much easier.

                      A walking foot is essentially just a set of duplicate feed dogs which
                      replaces the usual presser foot. Thus, instead of both layers of
                      fabric being fed only by the lower feed dogs, both layers are being
                      fed simultaneously, each by its own set of feed dogs. 'Way better!

                      Brandon in Honolulu

                      >
                      > Sewing Silnyon is a beast, but I'm getting ok at it. It takes a
                      lot
                      > of tweaking on my crappy sewing machine to get the thread tensions
                      > right and, even then, the fabric is so thin, it's still on the
                      edge.
                      > I'm going to try a couple of tips I picked up talking to some
                      ladies
                      > in town who sew with really lightweight polyesters and silks and
                      see
                      > if they they apply to silnylon. Tape, including duct tape, does
                      not
                      > stick to silnylon. Fray check does not stick to silnylon. Pins
                      > cause holes that need to be sealed. I tend to finger tack
                      everything
                      > (hold everything tightly with your fingers and pray for the best).
                      >
                      > Post some pictures of your quilt if you get a chance.
                      >
                      > ciyd
                      >
                      plugs.
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