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First Hammocks

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  • Miguel Arboleda
    I just finished making my first two Speer hammock. It took me quite a long while to gather up the inner resources to try my hand at using a sewing machine, but
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
      I just finished making my first two Speer hammock. It took me quite a
      long while to gather up the inner resources to try my hand at using a
      sewing machine, but after sewing a few practice strips, I just took the
      nylon fabric I had bought and went straight for the hems. It was so
      much easier than I had imagined! Now I know that I can make all those
      items, like a backpack, sleeping quilt, hammock underquilt, and a
      camera bag, with a little patience.

      I tried out both hammocks out in the park near my apartment. The first
      hammock uses nylon 6mm climber's ropes, the second polypropylene
      straps. The rope definitely has a lot more give than the polypropylene
      (Ed called it "memory" in his book) and the strap definitely works
      better for hanging the hammock.

      I'm not sure yet which I find more comfortable, the Speer type or my
      Hennesy. My Speers came in a 130 cm wide swath of cloth, which is not
      quite 5 feet, and there is more squeeze than the Hennessy. But it felt
      comfortable. I won't really know until I go camping with it. I have yet
      to decide what to do about insulation on the bottom. I sleep cold in a
      hammock (I was never happy with the Hennessy as is; every time I was
      really cold. In tents I'm actually a warm sleeper. I tried the closed
      cell mat in the hammock route, but got all tangled up. I think for me
      the only possibility of reprieve is under the hammock) and so I'm
      worried about my hammock until I can find some kind of insulation.

      I think the Speer is definitely more versatile than the Hennessy. I
      like the no bugnet option. And the ability to set it up easily on the
      ground, without the trouble of squirming in and out of the floor
      opening like the Hennessy.

      I have two questions.

      In making my first hammock I used nylon rope and attached them to the
      hammock using a "full carrick bend" (
      http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/fullcarrickbend.htm ). In addition I
      tied Ed's end knots for extra safety. However I wonder if this was
      necessary? The full carrick bend is very secure and designed for
      joining two different types of line, such as a rope and a sheet. Would
      anyone know if the end knot is absolutely necessary?

      Also something about sewing. When sewing on the loop in the
      polypropylene straps the bar tacking crossed the width of the strap.
      However, I wasn't sure how to finish off the trailing ends of the
      thread. I just let the sewing machine continue off the edge of the
      strap and then stitched the loose thread down by hand. Would anyone be
      able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for that
      matter)?

      I want to thank you Ed for helping me get started with all this and for
      lending me the motivation to start making my own gear. It's quite an
      inspiration!

      cheers!
      miguel
    • Dave Womble
      ... the ... Would ... Miguel, First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I have some experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Arboleda <butuki@g...>
        wrote:
        >
        > In making my first hammock I used nylon rope and attached them to
        the
        > hammock using a "full carrick bend" (
        > http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/fullcarrickbend.htm ). In addition I
        > tied Ed's end knots for extra safety. However I wonder if this was
        > necessary? The full carrick bend is very secure and designed for
        > joining two different types of line, such as a rope and a sheet.
        Would
        > anyone know if the end knot is absolutely necessary?
        >

        Miguel,

        First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I have some
        experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
        experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or solid
        braid polyester rope. Nylon rope should be avoided because
        its 'full memory' stretch capability is frustating for hammock use.
        To attach the rope to the hammock body, I use Ed Speer's overhand
        knot for the hammock body and 3 'half-hitches' for the rope. I
        attach the rope to the hammock body the same way the webbing would be
        attached-- except instead of sewing, I use a knot. The 3 'half-
        hitches' will not slip off and are fairly easy to untie if needed.
        (The third 'half hitch' is needed to keep the first two 'half-
        hitches' in place.) I use a 'bowline with quick release' to tie the
        rope to the tree. I feel that the polyester rope is probably the
        more dependable rope, but the hollow braid polypropylene rope
        flattens out around the tree, much like narrow webbing, and is less
        likely to damage the tree. It is important to use the 'quick
        release' with the bowline knot, otherwise it may be very difficult to
        untie the knot after it has been stressed overnight by the hammock
        occupants weight. The 'bowline with quick release' is how the makers
        of the Clark Jungle Hammock recommend tying off their hammock ropes
        and it slips out very easily the next morning with the hollow braid
        polypropylene rope (the solid braid polyester rope requires a pretty
        good tug to slip the quick release in the bowline knot the next
        morning).

        In summary, what I prefer is a hollow braid plypropylene rope.
        Attach the rope to the hammock body with 3 half hitches and attach
        the rope to the tree using a bowline with a quick release.

        Youngblood
      • ciyd01
        ... strap. ... be ... that ... Your sewing machine should have a lever for sewing in reverse. When you come to the end of a line of sewing, including your
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Arboleda <butuki@g...>
          wrote:
          > Also something about sewing. When sewing on the loop in the
          > polypropylene straps the bar tacking crossed the width of the
          strap.
          > However, I wasn't sure how to finish off the trailing ends of the
          > thread. I just let the sewing machine continue off the edge of the
          > strap and then stitched the loose thread down by hand. Would anyone
          be
          > able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for
          that
          > matter)?

          Your sewing machine should have a lever for sewing in reverse. When
          you come to the end of a line of sewing, including your hems, 1) stop
          sewing 2) move the lever to REVERSE 3) Sew back over your last line
          of stitching a short ways, about 1/2 inch or 15 mm. That should lock
          in the stitching. For a bar tack, there should be enough stitching
          to lock it so you shouldn't have to to any additional work.

          Hope this helps,
          ciyd
        • Chester Clocksin
          As far as using the ropes to hang the hammock, I think you could get away without the end knots, as long as your knot cinches up tight around the fabric of the
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
            As far as using the ropes to hang the hammock, I think you could get away without the end knots, as long as your knot cinches up tight around the fabric of the hammock ends. I used the straps on my home made Speer hammock though, and they seem to work really well.
             
            Also, as far your comments about sleeping cold, that is the same reason I wanted to make my own. I have a HH expedition, which I really like, but I hate having to fight with a pad in the hammock to keep warm. I constructed my Speer hammock with a double bottom, so I can slip my pad in between the bottom layers. It works great! The Speer hammock is very comfortable, and the removable bug net and large tarp are features that I really like.
             
            Chet

            Miguel Arboleda <butuki@...> wrote:
            I just finished making my first two Speer hammock. It took me quite a
            long while to gather up the inner resources to try my hand at using a
            sewing machine, but after sewing a few practice strips, I just took the
            nylon fabric I had bought and went straight for the hems. It was so
            much easier than I had imagined! Now I know that I can make all those
            items, like a backpack, sleeping quilt, hammock underquilt, and a
            camera bag, with a little patience.

            I tried out both hammocks out in the park near my apartment. The first
            hammock uses nylon 6mm climber's ropes, the second polypropylene
            straps. The rope definitely has a lot more give than the polypropylene
            (Ed called it "memory" in his book) and the strap definitely works
            better for hanging the hammock.

            I'm not sure yet which I find more comfortable, the Speer type or my
            Hennesy. My Speers came in a 130 cm wide swath of cloth, which is not
            quite 5 feet, and there is more squeeze than the Hennessy. But it felt
            comfortable. I won't really know until I go camping with it. I have yet
            to decide what to do about insulation on the bottom. I sleep cold in a
            hammock (I was never happy with the Hennessy as is; every time I was
            really cold. In tents I'm actually a warm sleeper. I tried the closed
            cell mat in the hammock route, but got all tangled up. I think for me
            the only possibility of reprieve is under the hammock) and so I'm
            worried about my hammock until I can find some kind of insulation.

            I think the Speer is definitely more versatile than the Hennessy. I
            like the no bugnet option. And the ability to set it up easily on the
            ground, without the trouble of squirming in and out of the floor
            opening like the Hennessy.

            I have two questions.

            In making my first hammock I used nylon rope and attached them to the
            hammock using a "full carrick bend" (
            http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/fullcarrickbend.htm ). In addition I
            tied Ed's end knots for extra safety. However I wonder if this was
            necessary? The full carrick bend is very secure and designed for
            joining two different types of line, such as a rope and a sheet. Would
            anyone know if the end knot is absolutely necessary?

            Also something about sewing. When sewing on the loop in the
            polypropylene straps the bar tacking crossed the width of the strap.
            However, I wasn't sure how to finish off the trailing ends of the
            thread. I just let the sewing machine continue off the edge of the
            strap and then stitched the loose thread down by hand. Would anyone be
            able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for that
            matter)?

            I want to thank you Ed for helping me get started with all this and for
            lending me the motivation to start making my own gear. It's quite an
            inspiration!

            cheers!
            miguel



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          • Ed Speer
            Miguel, you re on your way now! It really is simple to sew your own hammock isn t it? And now you have the experience and skills to make other items as well.
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
              Message
              Miguel, you're on your way now!  It really is simple to sew your own hammock isn't it?  And now you have the experience and skills to make other items as well.  Who says men can't sew--when I finally got brave enough to use my mom's machine, the world changed and I soon was making lots of hammock varieties!  Also blankets and sleeping bags.  However, I still can't sew as well as my sister, so she makes all of our custom made gear--but I do take over the machine often to work on my prototypes.  Once I get the design right, she takes over and makes it look beautiful.
               
              I'm not familiar with the knot you used, but probably others on the list will know the answer
               
              On the issue of finishing off a seam, your machine manual should be informative.  There are several handy tricks for doing this--it is important to secure the end of the thread since otherwise it will unravel over time.  I'll let the more experienced sewers on the list direct you.
               
              On the comfort of my Speer hammocks--be sure and hang them with significant sag--this allows the occupient to be more horizontal and to lie diagonally across the center line, which prevents shoulder squeeze and holds the hammock open.  One's first inclination is to stretch the hammock too tight--instead let it sag before getting in.  If your butt hits the ground, back off on the sag a bit.  LOL
               
              Thanks for the kind words about my hammock Miguel.  BTY your early interest in purchasing my book and having it shipped overseas, prompted me to set up the procedures that allow that to happen!  Since then, many folks have followed your lead and now books have been shipped to many countries!  I thank you. Hope we get to meet on a trail someday...Ed
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Miguel Arboleda [mailto:butuki@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:25 AM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Hammock Camping First Hammocks

              I just finished making my first two Speer hammock. It took me quite a
              long while to gather up the inner resources to try my hand at using a
              sewing machine, but after sewing a few practice strips, I just took the
              nylon fabric I had bought and went straight for the hems. It was so
              much easier than I had imagined! Now I know that I can make all those
              items, like a backpack, sleeping quilt, hammock underquilt, and a
              camera bag, with a little patience.

              I tried out both hammocks out in the park near my apartment. The first
              hammock uses nylon 6mm climber's ropes, the second polypropylene
              straps. The rope definitely has a lot more give than the polypropylene
              (Ed called it "memory" in his book) and the strap definitely works
              better for hanging the hammock.

              I'm not sure yet which I find more comfortable, the Speer type or my
              Hennesy. My Speers came in a 130 cm wide swath of cloth, which is not
              quite 5 feet, and there is more squeeze than the Hennessy. But it felt
              comfortable. I won't really know until I go camping with it. I have yet
              to decide what to do about insulation on the bottom. I sleep cold in a
              hammock (I was never happy with the Hennessy as is; every time I was
              really cold. In tents I'm actually a warm sleeper. I tried the closed
              cell mat in the hammock route, but got all tangled up. I think for me
              the only possibility of reprieve is under the hammock) and so I'm
              worried about my hammock until I can find some kind of insulation.

              I think the Speer is definitely more versatile than the Hennessy. I
              like the no bugnet option. And the ability to set it up easily on the
              ground, without the trouble of squirming in and out of the floor
              opening like the Hennessy.

              I have two questions.

              In making my first hammock I used nylon rope and attached them to the
              hammock using a "full carrick bend" (
              http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/fullcarrickbend.htm ). In addition I
              tied Ed's end knots for extra safety. However I wonder if this was
              necessary? The full carrick bend is very secure and designed for
              joining two different types of line, such as a rope and a sheet. Would
              anyone know if the end knot is absolutely necessary?

              Also something about sewing. When sewing on the loop in the
              polypropylene straps the bar tacking crossed the width of the strap.
              However, I wasn't sure how to finish off the trailing ends of the
              thread. I just let the sewing machine continue off the edge of the
              strap and then stitched the loose thread down by hand. Would anyone be
              able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for that
              matter)?

              I want to thank you Ed for helping me get started with all this and for
              lending me the motivation to start making my own gear. It's quite an
              inspiration!

              cheers!
              miguel



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              hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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            • Bill Fornshell
              Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to make one as light as possible for the Summer Season, but I am
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
                Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to
                make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks. Bill

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              • Ed Speer
                Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter and thus more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock. I currently use 1.9 oz/yd2 ripstop nylon
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 12, 2003
                  Message
                  Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter and thus more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock.  I currently use 1.9 oz/yd2 ripstop nylon for my regular hammocks and they can be used for winter or summer.  In the book, I recommend treating a winter hammock with silicone or DWR spray to decrease the air flow thru the fabric (these treatments can be washed out when warm summer temps return).  But very warm or hot temps may result in sweaty hammocks since the nylon may not breath enough--lighter fabrics (even nylons like 1.5oz/yd2 ripstop) might be appropriate.  1.1oz/yd2 ripstop is only recommended for single use hammocks since the fabric is easily torn or damaged--when doubled it works fine, but now the air flow may be greatly reduced again.  I've not experimented with fabrics lighter than 1.5 oz/yd2 for summer use--but surley some suitable ones must exist.  Has anyone else on the list found a suitable summer fabric?   ...Ed
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Bill Fornshell [mailto:bfornshell@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:50 PM
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Hammock Camping Summer Season Hammock Fabric

                  Hi Ed,  In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                  different material for a Summer Hammock.  I want to
                  make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                  but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                  kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks.  Bill

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                • Risk
                  I read and agree with Ed s response. I find when the nighttime temperature drops below 70 I need some insulation below me to stay warm. Sometimes when I go to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                    I read and agree with Ed's response.

                    I find when the nighttime temperature drops below 70 I need some
                    insulation below me to stay warm. Sometimes when I go to sleep and
                    the temperature is still above 80, I leave the pad out of the hammock
                    and let the air under the hammock cool me. Even at 80 with two layers
                    of 1.1 oz ripstop, it works to cool me right away.

                    I seldom have anything under me except whatever clothes I wear to bed
                    and the pad I put there. My quilt is used just for top insulation.
                    Sleeping in the hammock without a pad feels a lot like sleeping on a
                    waterbed without a pad. It can be refreshing, but ends up getting
                    chilly.

                    As far as sweating, when it is hot and I don't begin the night with a
                    pad, the hammock absorbs any sweat, further cooling me. This has made
                    it necessary to wash the hammock a couple times to keep it smelling
                    nice.

                    Rick

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Bill Fornshell
                    <bfornshell@y...> wrote:
                    > Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                    > different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to
                    > make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                    > but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                    > kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks. Bill
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
                    > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
                  • Risk
                    Miguel Arboleda wrote: Would anyone be able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for that matter)? Congrats in building your
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                      Miguel Arboleda <butuki@g...> wrote:

                      Would anyone be
                      able to tell me how to finish off a bar tack (or any stitching for that
                      matter)?

                      Congrats in building your first hammock! It is fun and useful.

                      This is how I make a bar tack:

                      - I set the sewing maching to make a zigzag stitch 2mm wide and 1mm long.
                      - I begin at one edge of the strap (or whereever I need the bartack)
                      and sew to the other edge, then use the reverse lever to back up to
                      where I started, then sew forward again to the other edge. Each time,
                      I am sewing over the same section.
                      - This makes the bar tack look a little like embroidery
                      This method is very effective at keeping the thread from coming undone.

                      Exactly the same thing is done to stop a straight stitch from coming
                      unraveled. To begin a line of stitching, I sew forward 2 cm, then
                      back 2cm then forward to begin the long line of stitching. To end a
                      stitched line, reach the end, then back up 2 cm, then forward to the
                      end again.

                      Why does this work? (I knew someone would ask)

                      The only way that stitching can come undone is by pulling the cloth
                      apart. This pulls the ends of the thread through the fabric.
                      However, if the cloth can not be pulled apart because the sewing
                      machine made another pass right there, but 4 cm away in the linear
                      sewing line, then the pulling apart can never happen.

                      Some think it does not come apart because the threads get all knotted
                      up. I thought this for the longest time. This is not true, and you
                      can prove it to yourself by very carefully making the forward and back
                      stitches about a half mm apart like a squashed Z. The end of the
                      stitching still is very secure.

                      This may be more than you wanted to know... but enquiring minds
                      sometimes want to know the why as well as the how.

                      Rick
                    • Thomas Peltier
                      I m just now learning how to sew, (have a class with mom and grandma s machine tonight). :-) Anyway since I don t want to ruin expensive materials I went to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                        Message

                        I’m just now learning how to sew, (have a class with mom and grandma’s machine tonight).  J 

                         

                        Anyway since I don’t want to ruin expensive materials I went to the fabric shop and found some nice stuff on the dollar rack.  I rigged it up in the back yard and climbed in last week.  I was really quit shocked I wasn’t on the ground in a few minutes but there I was hanging in the hammock.  The material was not nylon, it was a solid color with a checkerboard pattern of material running through it.  Seemed strong enough and it has been working so far.  I live in a very hot climate and compared to my nylon travel hammock it breathes great and is very nice to use after work under the shade tree.  I don’t get sweaty like I do from the nylon hammock.  I’ve taken a nap in my fabric hammock but not tried to sleep overnight in it.  I don’t know how strong or durable it is for long term use and it’s a bit heavier than nylon.  For five dollars and some webbing it was hard to beat though.  Don’t mind throwing it away when I mess it up.  Hope this helps a little bit anyway.

                         

                        Tom

                         

                         


                        From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 8:05 PM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

                         

                        Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter and thus more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock.  I currently use 1.9 oz/yd2 ripstop nylon for my regular hammocks and they can be used for winter or summer.  In the book, I recommend treating a winter hammock with silicone or DWR spray to decrease the air flow thru the fabric (these treatments can be washed out when warm summer temps return).  But very warm or hot temps may result in sweaty hammocks since the nylon may not breath enough--lighter fabrics (even nylons like 1.5oz/yd2 ripstop) might be appropriate.  1.1oz/yd2 ripstop is only recommended for single use hammocks since the fabric is easily torn or damaged--when doubled it works fine, but now the air flow may be greatly reduced again.  I've not experimented with fabrics lighter than 1.5 oz/yd2 for summer use--but surley some suitable ones must exist.  Has anyone else on the list found a suitable summer fabric?   ...Ed

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Bill Fornshell [mailto:bfornshell@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:50 PM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Hammock Camping Summer Season Hammock Fabric

                        Hi Ed,  In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                        different material for a Summer Hammock.  I want to
                        make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                        but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                        kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks.  Bill

                        __________________________________
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                        Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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                      • Bill Fornshell
                        Hi, What about Silk? I can get several weights of Silk Habotai, 5mm, 8mm, or 10mm, and it is very light in weight per yard. Have you or anyone make a hammock
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                          Hi, What about Silk? I can get several weights of Silk Habotai,
                          5mm, 8mm, or 10mm, and it is very light in weight per yard.
                          Have you or anyone make a hammock from silk? I have a silk
                          hammock from my time in Vietnam many years ago. The
                          hammock part weights 4.7oz. and was made from a parachute.
                          It was made for someone smaller than me. The owner wasn't
                          going to need it anymore so I got it. It is great to take a nap in but
                          just a little to small for backpacking with. Bill

                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer"
                          <info@s...> wrote:
                          > Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter
                          and thus
                          > more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock. I currently
                          use 1.9
                          > oz/yd2 ripstop nylon for my regular hammocks and they can be
                          used for
                          > winter or summer. In the book, I recommend treating a winter
                          hammock
                          > with silicone or DWR spray to decrease the air flow thru the
                          fabric
                          > (these treatments can be washed out when warm summer
                          temps return). But
                          > very warm or hot temps may result in sweaty hammocks since
                          the nylon may
                          > not breath enough--lighter fabrics (even nylons like 1.5oz/yd2
                          ripstop)
                          > might be appropriate. 1.1oz/yd2 ripstop is only recommended
                          for single
                          > use hammocks since the fabric is easily torn or
                          damaged--when doubled it
                          > works fine, but now the air flow may be greatly reduced again.
                          I've not
                          > experimented with fabrics lighter than 1.5 oz/yd2 for summer
                          use--but
                          > surley some suitable ones must exist. Has anyone else on
                          the list found
                          > a suitable summer fabric? ...Ed
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Bill Fornshell [mailto:bfornshell@y...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:50 PM
                          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Hammock Camping Summer Season Hammock
                          Fabric
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                          > different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to
                          > make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                          > but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                          > kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks. Bill
                          >
                          > __________________________________
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                          software
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                        • Risk
                          I d love to do some experimenting with silk, but have no source. At least no source I could afford. Rick
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                            I'd love to do some experimenting with silk, but have no source. At
                            least no source I could afford.

                            Rick

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Fornshell"
                            <bfornshell@y...> wrote:
                            > Hi, What about Silk? I can get several weights of Silk Habotai,
                            > 5mm, 8mm, or 10mm, and it is very light in weight per yard.
                            > Have you or anyone make a hammock from silk? I have a silk
                            > hammock from my time in Vietnam many years ago. The
                            > hammock part weights 4.7oz. and was made from a parachute.
                            > It was made for someone smaller than me. The owner wasn't
                            > going to need it anymore so I got it. It is great to take a nap in but
                            > just a little to small for backpacking with. Bill
                            >
                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer"
                            > <info@s...> wrote:
                            > > Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter
                            > and thus
                            > > more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock. I currently
                            > use 1.9
                            > > oz/yd2 ripstop nylon for my regular hammocks and they can be
                            > used for
                            > > winter or summer. In the book, I recommend treating a winter
                            > hammock
                            > > with silicone or DWR spray to decrease the air flow thru the
                            > fabric
                            > > (these treatments can be washed out when warm summer
                            > temps return). But
                            > > very warm or hot temps may result in sweaty hammocks since
                            > the nylon may
                            > > not breath enough--lighter fabrics (even nylons like 1.5oz/yd2
                            > ripstop)
                            > > might be appropriate. 1.1oz/yd2 ripstop is only recommended
                            > for single
                            > > use hammocks since the fabric is easily torn or
                            > damaged--when doubled it
                            > > works fine, but now the air flow may be greatly reduced again.
                            > I've not
                            > > experimented with fabrics lighter than 1.5 oz/yd2 for summer
                            > use--but
                            > > surley some suitable ones must exist. Has anyone else on
                            > the list found
                            > > a suitable summer fabric? ...Ed
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Bill Fornshell [mailto:bfornshell@y...]
                            > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:50 PM
                            > > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Hammock Camping Summer Season Hammock
                            > Fabric
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                            > > different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to
                            > > make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                            > > but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                            > > kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks. Bill
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________
                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
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                          • Coy
                            I was looking around for Worsterlon and saw some silk at fabrics.com which seemed reasonable. Not sure how to pick out the proper silk but some was around $9
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                              I was looking around for Worsterlon and saw some silk at fabrics.com
                              which seemed reasonable. Not sure how to pick out the proper silk
                              but some was around $9 a yard. $40 a yard on some other sites. I
                              never found Worsterlon. I saw the shirts in Cabelas but would like
                              some pants of the same material. Though I might get enough material
                              for a shirt and pant for less than a shirt from Cabelas. Wonder
                              where I might find Worsterlon. For the silk see

                              http://www.fabrics.com/

                              Coy Boy

                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Risk" <geoflyfisher@y...>
                              wrote:
                              > I'd love to do some experimenting with silk, but have no source.
                              At
                              > least no source I could afford.
                              >
                              > Rick
                              >
                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Fornshell"
                              > <bfornshell@y...> wrote:
                              > > Hi, What about Silk? I can get several weights of Silk
                              Habotai,
                              > > 5mm, 8mm, or 10mm, and it is very light in weight per yard.
                              > > Have you or anyone make a hammock from silk? I have a silk
                              > > hammock from my time in Vietnam many years ago. The
                              > > hammock part weights 4.7oz. and was made from a parachute.
                              > > It was made for someone smaller than me. The owner wasn't
                              > > going to need it anymore so I got it. It is great to take a nap
                              in but
                              > > just a little to small for backpacking with. Bill
                              > >
                              > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer"
                              > > <info@s...> wrote:
                              > > > Hi Bill, a summer hammock could easily be made from lighter
                              > > and thus
                              > > > more breatherable fabric than a winter hammock. I currently
                              > > use 1.9
                              > > > oz/yd2 ripstop nylon for my regular hammocks and they can be
                              > > used for
                              > > > winter or summer. In the book, I recommend treating a winter
                              > > hammock
                              > > > with silicone or DWR spray to decrease the air flow thru the
                              > > fabric
                              > > > (these treatments can be washed out when warm summer
                              > > temps return). But
                              > > > very warm or hot temps may result in sweaty hammocks since
                              > > the nylon may
                              > > > not breath enough--lighter fabrics (even nylons like 1.5oz/yd2
                              > > ripstop)
                              > > > might be appropriate. 1.1oz/yd2 ripstop is only recommended
                              > > for single
                              > > > use hammocks since the fabric is easily torn or
                              > > damaged--when doubled it
                              > > > works fine, but now the air flow may be greatly reduced
                              again.
                              > > I've not
                              > > > experimented with fabrics lighter than 1.5 oz/yd2 for summer
                              > > use--but
                              > > > surley some suitable ones must exist. Has anyone else on
                              > > the list found
                              > > > a suitable summer fabric? ...Ed
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: Bill Fornshell [mailto:bfornshell@y...]
                              > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 10:50 PM
                              > > > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Subject: Hammock Camping Summer Season Hammock
                              > > Fabric
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Ed, In the Newsletter you suggest using a
                              > > > different material for a Summer Hammock. I want to
                              > > > make one as light as possible for the Summer Season,
                              > > > but I am so new to this I don't have a clue as to what
                              > > > kind of material you might be talking about. Thanks. Bill
                              > > >
                              > > > __________________________________
                              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                              > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
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                              > > >
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                              > > > pmail/S=:HM/A=1712983/rand=969983703>
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                              > > > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                              > > >
                              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                              > > Service
                              > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                            • Thomas Peltier
                              Seems like silk would be great for a material but is it going to be strong enough? Or a better question is probably which silk product is going to work best?
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003

                                Seems like silk would be great for a material but is it going to be strong enough?  Or a better question is probably which silk product is going to work best?

                                 

                                From Coy’s lead I found Thai silks which has 12mm Habotai silk for $7.95.  I don’t know anything about silk other than it is worm poop that gets woven into a fabric.  How strong and durable?  Is 12mm thick enough or too thick.  Any help or ideas?

                                 

                              • Risk
                                I don t understand the 12mm terminology. Anything thicker than about a tenth of a mm would be too thick. Rick ... strong ... $7.95. I ... woven ... thick.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 13, 2003
                                  I don't understand the 12mm terminology. Anything thicker than about
                                  a tenth of a mm would be too thick.

                                  Rick

                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Peltier" <Thomas@G...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > Seems like silk would be great for a material but is it going to be
                                  strong
                                  > enough? Or a better question is probably which silk product is going to
                                  > work best?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From Coy's lead I found Thai silks which has 12mm Habotai silk for
                                  $7.95. I
                                  > don't know anything about silk other than it is worm poop that gets
                                  woven
                                  > into a fabric. How strong and durable? Is 12mm thick enough or too
                                  thick.
                                  > Any help or ideas?
                                • Miguel Arboleda
                                  I want to thank everyone who provided advice on sewing and on using different types of ropes. I ve since gone a little bonkers making adjustments to the
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 14, 2003
                                    I want to thank everyone who provided advice on sewing and on using
                                    different types of ropes.

                                    I've since gone a little bonkers making adjustments to the hammock
                                    (this is my summer vacation and I had planned to get out hiking, but
                                    with two typhoons blowing through, been sort of housebound). With my
                                    new sewing skills I secured the loose threads and also sewed six nylon
                                    type loops to the sides of the hammock for attaching a second bottom
                                    I'm working on, made of a 5 x 8 siltarp.

                                    The idea hasn't quite gelled yet, but it's based on the Garlington
                                    Insulator, where I use the loops on the short ends of the tarp for
                                    running a nylon line through, pulling it tight to create an accordion
                                    effect, and cinching either end of the tarp up to the ends of the
                                    hammock. The loops I just sewed to the hammock are for pulling the long
                                    edges of the tarp up to the sides of the hammock. The 5 x 8 tarp fits
                                    perfectly underneath the hammock. The only problem is what kind of
                                    lightweight insulator to use. I bought some 1" thick Thinsulate
                                    insulation on sale at a store here in Tokyo yesterday, but haven't
                                    figured out how to make it work so that my pack is still lightweight. I
                                    may just use it for some other purpose, but I was tinkering with the
                                    idea of sewing the thinsulate sheet to the silnylon tarp, and doubling
                                    this as a an underquilt/ blanket. It still seems too bulky and heavy at
                                    the moment though.

                                    Another idea I've been thinking about is trying to work with the Exped
                                    down-filled inflatable sleeping pad (
                                    http://www.exped.com/exped/web/
                                    exped_homepage.nsf?OpenDatabase&Language=E ) and trying to get it to
                                    attach under the hammock, and deflating it somewhat so that it conforms
                                    to the shape of the hammock. With such a pad I could stay warm and
                                    comfortable both in the hammock and on the ground, without a need to
                                    carry another pad.

                                    Two problems with this, however, is that the pad is heavy (32 oz. or 45
                                    oz.) and that it is too narrow to protect the entire surface area of
                                    the bottom of the hammock.

                                    So I've been thinking of possibly trying to acquire an inflatable raft
                                    bladder or something like it that is strong enough to be used on the
                                    ground. This may prove to be too heavy, too, but I want to make the
                                    best of dual use items to keep the weight of the whole system as light
                                    as possible. So far the hammock system I have right now (without
                                    insulator) is heavier than my Thermarest (which I use to shape the
                                    inside of my G4 pack)/ space blanket ground cloth/ GoLite Hex 2 tipi
                                    set up.

                                    What if there were a way to make the bottom of the hammock inflatable,
                                    so that it could be used hanging and on the ground, both for insulation
                                    and protection from the ground? How would one go about making such a
                                    thing? Would anyone have the slightest idea?

                                    miguel
                                  • Shane
                                    ... Silk works really well, but it s expensive usually. I got some surplus once and made an excellent hammock out of it. I recommend it, if you can get it
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 18, 2003
                                      > Hi, What about Silk?

                                      Silk works really well, but it's expensive usually. I got some surplus once
                                      and made an excellent hammock out of it. I recommend it, if you can get it
                                      cheap enough.

                                      Shane
                                    • David Chinell
                                      Youngblood: Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid polypropylene rope? Bear ... have some experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
                                        Youngblood:

                                        Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                        polypropylene rope?

                                        Bear

                                        >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I
                                        have some
                                        experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
                                        experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                        solid
                                        braid polyester rope.
                                      • Dave Womble
                                        Bear, I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength comes with no guarantees. I have not searched on-line for the rope. The rope that I am
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
                                          Bear,

                                          I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength comes with
                                          no guarantees. I have not searched on-line for the rope. The rope
                                          that I am familiar with can be purchased at Home Depot, Lowes,
                                          Walmart, K-mart, Ace Hardware, etc. Lehigh Ropes is the manufacturer
                                          I most often see. For brave ounce counters, like me, the 1/4" hollow
                                          braid polypropylene is the lightest weight that I would use. For
                                          folks who don't feel quite as a brave (or maybe are a little heavier)
                                          and don't mind a few more ounces, try the 5/16" or 3/8" hollow braid
                                          polypropylene. The larger diameter ropes also figure to be
                                          more 'tree friendly'.

                                          Their 'working loads' are usually listed on the packaging and Lehigh
                                          Ropes also list theirs on the web at
                                          http://www.lehighgroup.com/workingload.htm. My best guess was that
                                          Lehigh was using about a ten-to-one ratio for tensile strength of a
                                          new rope to the safe working load, but I don't recall how I came to
                                          that conclusion.

                                          As always, inspect your rope and hammock regularly, replace if/when
                                          needed and leave sag in the hammock! A taunt ridgeline puts
                                          tremendous stess on the ropes and hammock body as well as adding to
                                          shoulder squeeze issues. I also hope that everyone using light
                                          weight backpacking hammocks realize that the designs are not bullet-
                                          proof. To keep the weights down the designers/manufactures have
                                          reduced the safe loading factors with the understanding that the
                                          users would not subject the hammocks to unnecessary heavy loads or
                                          dynamic stress. (i.e. no horseplay, rowdy folks/children, multiple
                                          occupants and don't use as a swing. If you want a hammock that is
                                          built like a tank, expect for it to be a lot heavier.)

                                          Youngblood

                                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                          <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                          > Youngblood:
                                          >
                                          > Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                          > polypropylene rope?
                                          >
                                          > Bear
                                          >
                                          > >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I
                                          > have some
                                          > experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
                                          > experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                          > solid
                                          > braid polyester rope.
                                        • Coy
                                          Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I took that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now. I did notice it swung more than I was
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 21, 2003
                                            Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I took
                                            that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now. I did notice
                                            it swung more than I was used to due to not having the the side
                                            tiouts. As far as comfort, I could not tell much differance. Daves
                                            hammock is a Speer type for anyone wondering. I have 3 HH and a CC
                                            but I want an open top double bottom hammock for winter camping. I
                                            may use a fly fron one of my HH for whatever I eventually build
                                            untill I can aford a sil-nylon 10 X 12. Why such a large fly. I
                                            think I will try the biggest fly fesible because I want to be able
                                            to stay dry in about any conditions and have plenty of roome to cook
                                            and move around if I need to make an extended campsite in rainy
                                            weather. Could easily be rigged for a 2 man shelter if needed.

                                            Coy Boy

                                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > Bear,
                                            >
                                            > I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength comes
                                            with
                                            > no guarantees. I have not searched on-line for the rope. The
                                            rope
                                            > that I am familiar with can be purchased at Home Depot, Lowes,
                                            > Walmart, K-mart, Ace Hardware, etc. Lehigh Ropes is the
                                            manufacturer
                                            > I most often see. For brave ounce counters, like me, the 1/4"
                                            hollow
                                            > braid polypropylene is the lightest weight that I would use. For
                                            > folks who don't feel quite as a brave (or maybe are a little
                                            heavier)
                                            > and don't mind a few more ounces, try the 5/16" or 3/8" hollow
                                            braid
                                            > polypropylene. The larger diameter ropes also figure to be
                                            > more 'tree friendly'.
                                            >
                                            > Their 'working loads' are usually listed on the packaging and
                                            Lehigh
                                            > Ropes also list theirs on the web at
                                            > http://www.lehighgroup.com/workingload.htm. My best guess was
                                            that
                                            > Lehigh was using about a ten-to-one ratio for tensile strength of
                                            a
                                            > new rope to the safe working load, but I don't recall how I came
                                            to
                                            > that conclusion.
                                            >
                                            > As always, inspect your rope and hammock regularly, replace
                                            if/when
                                            > needed and leave sag in the hammock! A taunt ridgeline puts
                                            > tremendous stess on the ropes and hammock body as well as adding
                                            to
                                            > shoulder squeeze issues. I also hope that everyone using light
                                            > weight backpacking hammocks realize that the designs are not
                                            bullet-
                                            > proof. To keep the weights down the designers/manufactures have
                                            > reduced the safe loading factors with the understanding that the
                                            > users would not subject the hammocks to unnecessary heavy loads or
                                            > dynamic stress. (i.e. no horseplay, rowdy folks/children, multiple
                                            > occupants and don't use as a swing. If you want a hammock that is
                                            > built like a tank, expect for it to be a lot heavier.)
                                            >
                                            > Youngblood
                                            >
                                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                            > <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                            > > Youngblood:
                                            > >
                                            > > Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                            > > polypropylene rope?
                                            > >
                                            > > Bear
                                            > >
                                            > > >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I
                                            > > have some
                                            > > experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
                                            > > experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                            > > solid
                                            > > braid polyester rope.
                                          • Chet Clocksin
                                            Coy Boy, good luck on the hammock project. Its a lot easier than I thought it would be. As far as your comments about an open top hammock with double bottom, I
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 22, 2003
                                              Coy Boy,
                                              good luck on the hammock project. Its a lot easier than I thought it would be. As far as your comments about an open top hammock with double bottom, I was in exactly the same frame of mind after a season with my HH. I constructed a double bottom speer hammock, and I also have a slightly larger tarp than most. My tarp is 11 x 9, and it is huge! Its exactly the kind of coverage I was looking for. One thing to keep in mind if you go with a 12 x 10 tarp is you may not be able to lower the ridge line as close to the hammock as you would like to in a fierce storm, due to the additional ridgeline length of the tarp, and the fact that the hanging straps or ropes get considerably higher in relation to the hammock as you extend the tarps ridgeline out toward the trees. I think 11 foot is just about right, but if you make a hammock, its worth buying a cheap poly tarp in the size you plan on making out of sil-nylon, just to see how well you like.
                                               
                                              Also, I use a piece of hollow braid rope for a "structural" ridge line on my speer hammock. I used to tie and untie it, but now I leave it permanently attached, since there really is no drawback to it. It takes the guesswork out of how much sag to set the hammock up with, and greatly increases the room in the hammock by creating a big "bag" effect. Really eliminates shoulder squeeze, and is a little less "cocooning". The ridgeline is high enough that I don't hit my head on it when using the hammock as a chair, and I have even thought about making a larger bug net, and doing away with the standard ridgeline that is still used for the bug net. That would allow you to sit up inside the hammock with the bug net attached, much like the HH.
                                               
                                              Chet
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                                              Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:54 PM
                                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Hammock Camping Re: First Hammocks

                                              Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I took
                                              that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now.  I did notice
                                              it swung more than I was used to due to not having the the side
                                              tiouts.  As far as comfort, I could not tell much differance.  Daves
                                              hammock is a Speer type for anyone wondering. I have 3 HH and a CC
                                              but I want an open top double bottom hammock for winter camping.   I
                                              may use a fly fron one of my HH for whatever I eventually build
                                              untill I can aford a sil-nylon 10 X 12.  Why such a large fly. I
                                              think I will try the biggest fly fesible because I want to be able
                                              to stay dry in about any conditions and have plenty of roome to cook
                                              and move around if I need to make an extended campsite in rainy
                                              weather. Could easily be rigged for a 2 man shelter if needed.

                                              Coy Boy   

                                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > Bear,
                                              >
                                              > I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength comes
                                              with
                                              > no guarantees.  I have not searched on-line for the rope.  The
                                              rope
                                              > that I am familiar with can be purchased at Home Depot, Lowes,
                                              > Walmart, K-mart, Ace Hardware, etc.  Lehigh Ropes is the
                                              manufacturer
                                              > I most often see.  For brave ounce counters, like me, the 1/4"
                                              hollow
                                              > braid polypropylene is the lightest weight that I would use.  For
                                              > folks who don't feel quite as a brave (or maybe are a little
                                              heavier)
                                              > and don't mind a few more ounces, try the 5/16" or 3/8" hollow
                                              braid
                                              > polypropylene.  The larger diameter ropes also figure to be
                                              > more 'tree friendly'.
                                              >
                                              > Their 'working loads' are usually listed on the packaging and
                                              Lehigh
                                              > Ropes also list theirs on the web at
                                              > http://www.lehighgroup.com/workingload.htm.  My best guess was
                                              that
                                              > Lehigh was using about a ten-to-one ratio for tensile strength of
                                              a
                                              > new rope to the safe working load, but I don't recall how I came
                                              to
                                              > that conclusion. 
                                              >
                                              > As always, inspect your rope and hammock regularly, replace
                                              if/when
                                              > needed and leave sag in the hammock!  A taunt ridgeline puts
                                              > tremendous stess on the ropes and hammock body as well as adding
                                              to
                                              > shoulder squeeze issues.  I also hope that everyone using light
                                              > weight backpacking hammocks realize that the designs are not
                                              bullet-
                                              > proof.  To keep the weights down the designers/manufactures have
                                              > reduced the safe loading factors with the understanding that the
                                              > users would not subject the hammocks to unnecessary heavy loads or
                                              > dynamic stress. (i.e. no horseplay, rowdy folks/children, multiple
                                              > occupants and don't use as a swing. If you want a hammock that is
                                              > built like a tank, expect for it to be a lot heavier.)
                                              >
                                              > Youngblood
                                              >
                                              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                              > <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                              > > Youngblood:
                                              > >
                                              > > Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                              > > polypropylene rope?
                                              > >
                                              > > Bear
                                              > >
                                              > > >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks.  I
                                              > > have some
                                              > > experience tying rope to a Speer hammock.  I have had good
                                              > > experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                              > > solid
                                              > > braid polyester rope.



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                                            • Chet Clocksin
                                              Just a clarification: My comments about the tarps ridgeline only apply if you are planning on using the 12 foot length as the ridgeline. You could always use
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 22, 2003
                                                Just a clarification: My comments about the tarps ridgeline only apply if you are planning on using the 12 foot length as the ridgeline. You could always use the 10 foot length as the ridgeline, but then the sides of your tarp would really extend out, providing great coverage, but could be a pain to set up in some areas due to space restrictions (lots of trees or vegetation, etc.).
                                                 
                                                Chet
                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Chet Clocksin [mailto:cclocksin@...]
                                                Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:05 AM
                                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: RE: Hammock Camping Re: First Hammocks

                                                Coy Boy,
                                                good luck on the hammock project. Its a lot easier than I thought it would be. As far as your comments about an open top hammock with double bottom, I was in exactly the same frame of mind after a season with my HH. I constructed a double bottom speer hammock, and I also have a slightly larger tarp than most. My tarp is 11 x 9, and it is huge! Its exactly the kind of coverage I was looking for. One thing to keep in mind if you go with a 12 x 10 tarp is you may not be able to lower the ridge line as close to the hammock as you would like to in a fierce storm, due to the additional ridgeline length of the tarp, and the fact that the hanging straps or ropes get considerably higher in relation to the hammock as you extend the tarps ridgeline out toward the trees. I think 11 foot is just about right, but if you make a hammock, its worth buying a cheap poly tarp in the size you plan on making out of sil-nylon, just to see how well you like.
                                                 
                                                Also, I use a piece of hollow braid rope for a "structural" ridge line on my speer hammock. I used to tie and untie it, but now I leave it permanently attached, since there really is no drawback to it. It takes the guesswork out of how much sag to set the hammock up with, and greatly increases the room in the hammock by creating a big "bag" effect. Really eliminates shoulder squeeze, and is a little less "cocooning". The ridgeline is high enough that I don't hit my head on it when using the hammock as a chair, and I have even thought about making a larger bug net, and doing away with the standard ridgeline that is still used for the bug net. That would allow you to sit up inside the hammock with the bug net attached, much like the HH.
                                                 
                                                Chet
                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@...]
                                                Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:54 PM
                                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Hammock Camping Re: First Hammocks

                                                Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I took
                                                that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now.  I did notice
                                                it swung more than I was used to due to not having the the side
                                                tiouts.  As far as comfort, I could not tell much differance.  Daves
                                                hammock is a Speer type for anyone wondering. I have 3 HH and a CC
                                                but I want an open top double bottom hammock for winter camping.   I
                                                may use a fly fron one of my HH for whatever I eventually build
                                                untill I can aford a sil-nylon 10 X 12.  Why such a large fly. I
                                                think I will try the biggest fly fesible because I want to be able
                                                to stay dry in about any conditions and have plenty of roome to cook
                                                and move around if I need to make an extended campsite in rainy
                                                weather. Could easily be rigged for a 2 man shelter if needed.

                                                Coy Boy   

                                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > Bear,
                                                >
                                                > I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength comes
                                                with
                                                > no guarantees.  I have not searched on-line for the rope.  The
                                                rope
                                                > that I am familiar with can be purchased at Home Depot, Lowes,
                                                > Walmart, K-mart, Ace Hardware, etc.  Lehigh Ropes is the
                                                manufacturer
                                                > I most often see.  For brave ounce counters, like me, the 1/4"
                                                hollow
                                                > braid polypropylene is the lightest weight that I would use.  For
                                                > folks who don't feel quite as a brave (or maybe are a little
                                                heavier)
                                                > and don't mind a few more ounces, try the 5/16" or 3/8" hollow
                                                braid
                                                > polypropylene.  The larger diameter ropes also figure to be
                                                > more 'tree friendly'.
                                                >
                                                > Their 'working loads' are usually listed on the packaging and
                                                Lehigh
                                                > Ropes also list theirs on the web at
                                                > http://www.lehighgroup.com/workingload.htm.  My best guess was
                                                that
                                                > Lehigh was using about a ten-to-one ratio for tensile strength of
                                                a
                                                > new rope to the safe working load, but I don't recall how I came
                                                to
                                                > that conclusion. 
                                                >
                                                > As always, inspect your rope and hammock regularly, replace
                                                if/when
                                                > needed and leave sag in the hammock!  A taunt ridgeline puts
                                                > tremendous stess on the ropes and hammock body as well as adding
                                                to
                                                > shoulder squeeze issues.  I also hope that everyone using light
                                                > weight backpacking hammocks realize that the designs are not
                                                bullet-
                                                > proof.  To keep the weights down the designers/manufactures have
                                                > reduced the safe loading factors with the understanding that the
                                                > users would not subject the hammocks to unnecessary heavy loads or
                                                > dynamic stress. (i.e. no horseplay, rowdy folks/children, multiple
                                                > occupants and don't use as a swing. If you want a hammock that is
                                                > built like a tank, expect for it to be a lot heavier.)
                                                >
                                                > Youngblood
                                                >
                                                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                                > <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                                > > Youngblood:
                                                > >
                                                > > Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                                > > polypropylene rope?
                                                > >
                                                > > Bear
                                                > >
                                                > > >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks.  I
                                                > > have some
                                                > > experience tying rope to a Speer hammock.  I have had good
                                                > > experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                                > > solid
                                                > > braid polyester rope.



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                                                hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                                              • Coy
                                                Hi Chet Yes I was planning on using the 12 ft on the ridgeline so in effect I would have 5 feet minus the slope coverage on each side. My thinking is i can
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Aug 22, 2003
                                                  Hi Chet

                                                  Yes I was planning on using the 12 ft on the ridgeline so in effect
                                                  I would have 5 feet minus the slope coverage on each side. My
                                                  thinking is i can usually get the sides low enough for protection
                                                  but lenghtwise it is more likely to blow in. Without beaks which
                                                  could get in the way of the hammock hanging line,the ends are the
                                                  most sucsectable to rain. Of course picking the right direction for
                                                  set up helps. Only many times the wind will change directions
                                                  during a storm. Plus if you set up and the storme arive at say 3
                                                  AM, who knows what direction it will come from. I nearly always
                                                  pick a tree at least 12 ft apart so it should always fit in the
                                                  ridgelind direction. The 10 ft width could caus fit problems in
                                                  some overgrown situations. On thing about the HH, It will set up in
                                                  some tight squeezes for sure.

                                                  Coy Boy

                                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Chet Clocksin"
                                                  <cclocksin@b...> wrote:
                                                  > Just a clarification: My comments about the tarps ridgeline only
                                                  apply if
                                                  > you are planning on using the 12 foot length as the ridgeline. You
                                                  could
                                                  > always use the 10 foot length as the ridgeline, but then the sides
                                                  of your
                                                  > tarp would really extend out, providing great coverage, but could
                                                  be a pain
                                                  > to set up in some areas due to space restrictions (lots of trees or
                                                  > vegetation, etc.).
                                                  >
                                                  > Chet
                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: Chet Clocksin [mailto:cclocksin@b...]
                                                  > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:05 AM
                                                  > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: RE: Hammock Camping Re: First Hammocks
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Coy Boy,
                                                  > good luck on the hammock project. Its a lot easier than I
                                                  thought it would
                                                  > be. As far as your comments about an open top hammock with double
                                                  bottom, I
                                                  > was in exactly the same frame of mind after a season with my HH. I
                                                  > constructed a double bottom speer hammock, and I also have a
                                                  slightly larger
                                                  > tarp than most. My tarp is 11 x 9, and it is huge! Its exactly the
                                                  kind of
                                                  > coverage I was looking for. One thing to keep in mind if you go
                                                  with a 12 x
                                                  > 10 tarp is you may not be able to lower the ridge line as close to
                                                  the
                                                  > hammock as you would like to in a fierce storm, due to the
                                                  additional
                                                  > ridgeline length of the tarp, and the fact that the hanging straps
                                                  or ropes
                                                  > get considerably higher in relation to the hammock as you extend
                                                  the tarps
                                                  > ridgeline out toward the trees. I think 11 foot is just about
                                                  right, but if
                                                  > you make a hammock, its worth buying a cheap poly tarp in the size
                                                  you plan
                                                  > on making out of sil-nylon, just to see how well you like.
                                                  >
                                                  > Also, I use a piece of hollow braid rope for a "structural"
                                                  ridge line on
                                                  > my speer hammock. I used to tie and untie it, but now I leave it
                                                  permanently
                                                  > attached, since there really is no drawback to it. It takes the
                                                  guesswork
                                                  > out of how much sag to set the hammock up with, and greatly
                                                  increases the
                                                  > room in the hammock by creating a big "bag" effect. Really
                                                  eliminates
                                                  > shoulder squeeze, and is a little less "cocooning". The ridgeline
                                                  is high
                                                  > enough that I don't hit my head on it when using the hammock as a
                                                  chair, and
                                                  > I have even thought about making a larger bug net, and doing away
                                                  with the
                                                  > standard ridgeline that is still used for the bug net. That would
                                                  allow you
                                                  > to sit up inside the hammock with the bug net attached, much like
                                                  the HH.
                                                  >
                                                  > Chet
                                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > From: Coy [mailto:starnescr@y...]
                                                  > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:54 PM
                                                  > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: First Hammocks
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I
                                                  took
                                                  > that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now. I did
                                                  notice
                                                  > it swung more than I was used to due to not having the the side
                                                  > tiouts. As far as comfort, I could not tell much differance.
                                                  Daves
                                                  > hammock is a Speer type for anyone wondering. I have 3 HH and
                                                  a CC
                                                  > but I want an open top double bottom hammock for winter
                                                  camping. I
                                                  > may use a fly fron one of my HH for whatever I eventually build
                                                  > untill I can aford a sil-nylon 10 X 12. Why such a large fly.
                                                  I
                                                  > think I will try the biggest fly fesible because I want to be
                                                  able
                                                  > to stay dry in about any conditions and have plenty of roome
                                                  to cook
                                                  > and move around if I need to make an extended campsite in rainy
                                                  > weather. Could easily be rigged for a 2 man shelter if needed.
                                                  >
                                                  > Coy Boy
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble"
                                                  <dpwomble@y...>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > > Bear,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I am not an expert at this, so my opinion on rope strength
                                                  comes
                                                  > with
                                                  > > no guarantees. I have not searched on-line for the rope.
                                                  The
                                                  > rope
                                                  > > that I am familiar with can be purchased at Home Depot,
                                                  Lowes,
                                                  > > Walmart, K-mart, Ace Hardware, etc. Lehigh Ropes is the
                                                  > manufacturer
                                                  > > I most often see. For brave ounce counters, like me, the
                                                  1/4"
                                                  > hollow
                                                  > > braid polypropylene is the lightest weight that I would
                                                  use. For
                                                  > > folks who don't feel quite as a brave (or maybe are a little
                                                  > heavier)
                                                  > > and don't mind a few more ounces, try the 5/16" or 3/8"
                                                  hollow
                                                  > braid
                                                  > > polypropylene. The larger diameter ropes also figure to be
                                                  > > more 'tree friendly'.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Their 'working loads' are usually listed on the packaging and
                                                  > Lehigh
                                                  > > Ropes also list theirs on the web at
                                                  > > http://www.lehighgroup.com/workingload.htm. My best guess
                                                  was
                                                  > that
                                                  > > Lehigh was using about a ten-to-one ratio for tensile
                                                  strength of
                                                  > a
                                                  > > new rope to the safe working load, but I don't recall how I
                                                  came
                                                  > to
                                                  > > that conclusion.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > As always, inspect your rope and hammock regularly, replace
                                                  > if/when
                                                  > > needed and leave sag in the hammock! A taunt ridgeline puts
                                                  > > tremendous stess on the ropes and hammock body as well as
                                                  adding
                                                  > to
                                                  > > shoulder squeeze issues. I also hope that everyone using
                                                  light
                                                  > > weight backpacking hammocks realize that the designs are not
                                                  > bullet-
                                                  > > proof. To keep the weights down the designers/manufactures
                                                  have
                                                  > > reduced the safe loading factors with the understanding that
                                                  the
                                                  > > users would not subject the hammocks to unnecessary heavy
                                                  loads or
                                                  > > dynamic stress. (i.e. no horseplay, rowdy folks/children,
                                                  multiple
                                                  > > occupants and don't use as a swing. If you want a hammock
                                                  that is
                                                  > > built like a tank, expect for it to be a lot heavier.)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Youngblood
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
                                                  > > <dchinell@m...> wrote:
                                                  > > > Youngblood:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Can you recommend an online source of hollow braid
                                                  > > > polypropylene rope?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Bear
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > >First of all, congatulations on making your hammocks. I
                                                  > > > have some
                                                  > > > experience tying rope to a Speer hammock. I have had good
                                                  > > > experiences using either hollow braid polypropylene rope or
                                                  > > > solid
                                                  > > > braid polyester rope.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                  > hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                                • ciyd01
                                                  ... Don t forget that you can buy Spectra line and cord, by the foot, at most outdoors shops that sell climbing gear. They will cut it with a hot knife,
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Aug 22, 2003
                                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Coy" <starnescr@y...> wrote:
                                                    > Your hammock line held me just fine for about 2 hours when I took
                                                    > that much needed nap. I am pushing 240 lbs right now.

                                                    Don't forget that you can buy Spectra line and cord, by the foot, at
                                                    most outdoors shops that sell climbing gear. They will cut it with a
                                                    hot knife, sealing the ends, and will cut it to the length you
                                                    specify. Thin spectra will hold a tremendous load and is incredibly
                                                    light. The load rating should be either on the reel or the salesman
                                                    should know it. The rope and cord you buy at Home Depot may or may
                                                    not have the load rating on it.

                                                    You can also buy webbing there, custom cut, and the per foot prices
                                                    are cheaper than HD/Lowe's and you know what the load rating is.
                                                    Makes great tree huggers.

                                                    > think I will try the biggest fly fesible because I want to be able
                                                    > to stay dry in about any conditions and have plenty of roome to
                                                    cook
                                                    > and move around if I need to make an extended campsite in rainy
                                                    > weather. Could easily be rigged for a 2 man shelter if needed.

                                                    If you're handy with a needle, you could make your own. I'm making a
                                                    poncho/tarp/pack cover for fall and winter hiking. When worn, it
                                                    will keep me and the pack dry. At night, I'll set it up as a cooking
                                                    tarp for me and my hiking partner, then use it as a vestibule for the
                                                    HH. Winter weather here is very rainy (western Washinton). I'm
                                                    custom making it because the standard 5 x 8 tarp is too big - I'm 5'
                                                    tall and the 8' length either drags on the ground or gets stepped on
                                                    causing me to do a face plant on the trail. So, I'm making one
                                                    that's closer to 5' x just-under-7'. It's a lot cheaper, too.

                                                    ciyd
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