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Re: Newbie question about rain

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  • Ray Garlington
    ... way ... stay ... If you pitch the fly very tight and close to the body of the hammock, it will stay dry; however, as you point out, the bottom is
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 7 5:04 AM
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "atypical_genuis"
      <atypical_genuis@y...> wrote:

      >If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
      > falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
      > hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which
      way
      > in a storm? I've read accounts from folks that say the hammocks
      stay
      > dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain the mechanics exactly
      > of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm, particularly the ends.

      If you pitch the fly very tight and close to the body of the hammock,
      it will stay dry; however, as you point out, the bottom is
      susceptible to wind-driven rain. If the rain is blowing
      horizontally, some rain will hit the bottom and soak through. This is
      a rare occurance. (The 'how' is that there is a sufficient amount of
      tarp to adequately cover the hammock body if it is pitched tight and
      close to the screen.)

      The worst case scenario is when one of your tarp lines lets go due to
      the wind (and sloppy pitching) during a light rain that you happen to
      sleep through. Since you are essentially sleeping in a large bowl,
      you end up sleeping in a large bowl of water.
    • Chester Clocksin
      I have stayed dry in my Hennessey Expedition in rain, even thunderstorms. BUT, I have never really been caught in a swirling, howling, sideways driven rain,
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 7 6:39 AM
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        I have stayed dry in my Hennessey Expedition in rain, even thunderstorms. BUT, I have never really been caught in a swirling, howling, sideways driven rain, and I am sure you would get at least somewhat wet in those conditions, especially, as Ray says, the bottom of the hammock. Also, in the HH, when you pitch the tarp low and tight, it is pretty stormproof, but you really lose ventillation.
         
        This is probably one of ED Speer's strongest arguments in favor of his system....The large rain fly. Even with Ed's system though, I suspect that if the wind is blowing hard into one of the "ends" of the tarp, you'll get s little wet. I must say though, I have not had experience in anything other than a small thunderstorm with moderate rain in my Speer hammock, as I only completed it a few days ago. I am thinking about a way to make those tarp ends stormproof, but I'm not really sure I'll need to. Should be a simple matter.
         
        Chet
         
        Chet

        atypical_genuis <atypical_genuis@...> wrote:
        I tried the search feature but it wasn't working properly, I'm sure
        this has been asked before...

        I'm considering a Hennessey Explorer Deluxe A-Sym for an AT thru
        hike.  I've never used a hammock for backpacking before and it looks
        terrific for someone with fibromyalgia (like me!) who can have a
        really hard time sleeping on the ground, but one thing I can't
        understand is how the ends of the hammock (where the rain fly tapers
        to a point) and the underside of the hammock wouldn't get soaked in
        the rain?  If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
        falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
        hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which way
        in a storm?   I've read accounts from folks that say the hammocks stay
        dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain the mechanics exactly
        of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm, particularly the ends. 

        Sesa



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      • firefly
        Ray, I assume you re talking about HH? I have the Explorer A-Sym Ultralight. I have been in a calm, early morning rain storm with it before and loved it. Slept
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 7 7:17 AM
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          Ray, I assume you're talking about HH? I have the Explorer A-Sym Ultralight. I have been in a calm, early morning rain storm with it before and loved it. Slept like a baby. (This was in the yard of my parents house and Mom was looking nervously out the window worrying I was getting wet.) This was what my folks like to call "a farmer's rain"--steady, not a storm, but not a sprinkle, either. However, I was camping in DW in some very high winds--no rain, and I was wondering if those cords that came with the tarp are strong enough to sustain the kinds of winds you can get in places like the Sierras. Or should I invest in some Triptease instead?   MARSANNE
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
          Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:04 AM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Newbie question about rain

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "atypical_genuis"
          <atypical_genuis@y...> wrote:

          >If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
          > falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
          > hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which
          way
          > in a storm?   I've read accounts from folks that say the hammocks
          stay
          > dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain the mechanics exactly
          > of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm, particularly the ends. 

          If you pitch the fly very tight and close to the body of the hammock,
          it will stay dry; however, as you point out, the bottom is
          susceptible to wind-driven rain.  If the rain is blowing
          horizontally, some rain will hit the bottom and soak through. This is
          a rare occurance. (The 'how' is that there is a sufficient amount of
          tarp to adequately cover the hammock body if it is pitched tight and
          close to the screen.)

          The worst case scenario is when one of your tarp lines lets go due to
          the wind (and sloppy pitching) during a light rain that you happen to
          sleep through.  Since you are essentially sleeping in a large bowl,
          you end up sleeping in a large bowl of water.



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          hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        • firefly
          I am sure Ed s hammocks are great, but I have already invested in the HH and I find it very comfortable. I also love the entry system. (My roommate wants a
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 7 7:22 AM
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            I am sure Ed's hammocks are great, but I have already invested in the HH and I find it very comfortable. I also love the entry system. (My roommate wants a hammock and I have suggested she make a Speer) I have heard some of you talk about replacing the HH tarp with a big Silnylon one like you can get at Campmor. I have thought of doing the same thing. I think the HH tarp is a design error. It looks cool, but is just too skimpy in the rain. Those of you who have replaced your HH tarps, what did you use for a replacement?  Marsanne

             
            I have stayed dry in my Hennessey Expedition in rain, even thunderstorms. BUT, I have never really been caught in a swirling, howling, sideways driven rain, and I am sure you would get at least somewhat wet in those conditions, especially, as Ray says, the bottom of the hammock. Also, in the HH, when you pitch the tarp low and tight, it is pretty stormproof, but you really lose ventillation.
             
            This is probably one of ED Speer's strongest arguments in favor of his system....The large rain fly. Even with Ed's system though, I suspect that if the wind is blowing hard into one of the "ends" of the tarp, you'll get s little wet. I must say though, I have not had experience in anything other than a small thunderstorm with moderate rain in my Speer hammock, as I only completed it a few days ago. I am thinking about a way to make those tarp ends stormproof, but I'm not really sure I'll need to. Should be a simple matter.
             
            Chet
             
            Chet

            atypical_genuis <atypical_genuis@...> wrote:
            I tried the search feature but it wasn't working properly, I'm sure
            this has been asked before...

            I'm considering a Hennessey Explorer Deluxe A-Sym for an AT thru
            hike.  I've never used a hammock for backpacking before and it looks
            terrific for someone with fibromyalgia (like me!) who can have a
            really hard time sleeping on the ground, but one thing I can't
            understand is how the ends of the hammock (where the rain fly tapers
            to a point) and the underside of the hammock wouldn't get soaked in
            the rain?  If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
            falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
            hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which way
            in a storm?   I've read accounts from folks that say the hammocks stay
            dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain the m! echanics exactly
            of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm, particularly the ends. 

            Sesa



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          • Ed Speer
            Sesa, Chet--Some good points about tarp use. I designed the Speer Hammock and have tested it and most of the others in some really bad storms--anyone s first
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 7 7:49 AM
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              Message
              Sesa, Chet--Some good points about tarp use. I designed the Speer Hammock and have tested it and most of the others in some really bad storms--anyone's first line of defense should be to "hide from the wind".  I discuss this at length in my book.  In the mountains this is generally very easy as I can pitch the hammock on the lee side of a ridge, mtn, or even rock cliff--often in total calm only a few feet out of the wind stream!  Another reason to avoid wind--strong wind can easily damage the extremely light silnylon tarp fabric by causing tears where the pull tabs are sewed on.  This is lightweight gear, not bombproof gear.
               
              However, when caught out in unexpected wind-blown rain, I greatly lower the 8X10 tarp and pull in the sides until they actually touch the ground (may have to lower hammock as well)--this makes extremely small open ends.  I can also use my ground sheet to block the open wind facing end of the tarp, if needed.  I always carry an emergency Mylar sheet (2oz) anyway (for ground sheet if needed, vapor barrier sheet for sleeping warmth, or rain protection) and it easily ties up at the end of the tarp if needed.  I've had to do this only once in 15 years of hammock camping, so it is not a common need--surprisingly, the 8X10 tarp gives sufficient protection the vast majority of the time, even in the wind!  A rain jacket can be rigged to do the same.  But I hike with a small umbrella (instead of a rain jacket) and occasionally tie it to a hammock strap at the end of the tarp as a door or position it to add another 1.5' or so of roof (now my pack hanging from the end of the hammock stays dry too)....Ed
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Chester Clocksin [mailto:cclocksin@...]
              Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:39 AM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: Hammock Camping Newbie question about rain
              I have stayed dry in my Hennessey Expedition in rain, even thunderstorms. BUT, I have never really been caught in a swirling, howling, sideways driven rain, and I am sure you would get at least somewhat wet in those conditions, especially, as Ray says, the bottom of the hammock. Also, in the HH, when you pitch the tarp low and tight, it is pretty stormproof, but you really lose ventillation.
               
              This is probably one of ED Speer's strongest arguments in favor of his system....The large rain fly. Even with Ed's system though, I suspect that if the wind is blowing hard into one of the "ends" of the tarp, you'll get s little wet. I must say though, I have not had experience in anything other than a small thunderstorm with moderate rain in my Speer hammock, as I only completed it a few days ago. I am thinking about a way to make those tarp ends stormproof, but I'm not really sure I'll need to. Should be a simple matter.
               
              Chet
               
              Chet

              atypical_genuis <atypical_genuis@...> wrote:
              I tried the search feature but it wasn't working properly, I'm sure
              this has been asked before...

              I'm considering a Hennessey Explorer Deluxe A-Sym for an AT thru
              hike.  I've never used a hammock for backpacking before and it looks
              terrific for someone with fibromyalgia (like me!) who can have a
              really hard time sleeping on the ground, but one thing I can't
              understand is how the ends of the hammock (where the rain fly tapers
              to a point) and the underside of the hammock wouldn't get soaked in
              the rain?  If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
              falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
              hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which way
              in a storm?   I've read accounts from folks that say the hammocks stay
              dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain the mechanics exactly
              of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm, particularly the ends. 

              Sesa



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            • Ray Garlington
              ... Yes. The model I have is the Explorer 2.5 I have used it in rain several times, the worst of which was a thunderstorm with ~30mph winds. The wind-driven
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 7 8:09 AM
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "firefly" <firefly@e...> wrote:
                > Ray, I assume you're talking about HH?

                Yes. The model I have is the Explorer 2.5 I have used it in rain
                several times, the worst of which was a thunderstorm with ~30mph
                winds. The wind-driven rain hit the hammcock body in the vicinity of
                my shoulders seeping through a little. Sgt Rock has reported using
                the HH during the passage of a hurricane, through which he stayed dry.

                > and I was wondering if those cords that came with the tarp are
                strong
                > enough to sustain the kinds of winds you can get in places like the
                Sierras.
                > Or should I invest in some Triptease instead? MARSANNE

                I think the cords on the fly are strong enough, particularly if you
                are protected by trees. If you expect heavy weather, just pitch the
                tarp very tight and low.
              • dchinell
                Marsanne: I m sure you ve heard me say this before, but I ll repeat it just in case. When I expect bad weather, I replace the stock HH fly with a custom made 8
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 7 8:20 AM
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                  Marsanne:

                  I'm sure you've heard me say this before, but I'll repeat it just in
                  case. When I expect bad weather, I replace the stock HH fly with a
                  custom made 8 x 8 foot silnylon tarp. I pitch this on the diagonal,
                  so it's very much like the HH tarp, but gives a little more coverage
                  at the ends, and more overall square footage.

                  As a side note, I understand that part of the reason for the
                  skimpiness of the stock HH fly is that Tom dislikes seams, and won't
                  make the fly bigger if it means adding a seam.

                  Like the others who replied, I've only gotten wet under the stock
                  fly when I'm exposed to the wind. I get wet at the shoulders or
                  where my feet are poking the side as I lie diagonally. It never
                  bothered me enough to make me get out and lower the tarp, I just
                  found a snugger position that kept the hammock from sticking into
                  the rain.

                  Bear
                • Shane
                  ... If the hammock is pitched properly, you can stay dry even in a blowing rain. It does help to try to pitch in a spot sheltered from the wind. You should
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 7 8:32 AM
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                    > If it were just a light rain with no wind, so the rain was
                    > falling straight down, I can see how the fly would protect the
                    > hammock, but what happens in rain being blown by gusts every
                    > which way in a storm? I've read accounts from folks that say
                    > the hammocks stay dry in a heavy rain, I need someone to explain
                    > the mechanics exactly of *how* you can stay dry in a windy storm,
                    > particularly the ends.

                    If the hammock is pitched properly, you can stay dry even in a blowing rain.
                    It does help to try to pitch in a spot sheltered from the wind. You should
                    pull the tarp tight and close to the sides.

                    I think I cover this in my review, here:

                    http://tinyurl.com/au8q

                    Shane
                  • Shane
                    ... A 10x10. It provides many pitching opportunities. Shane
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 7 8:35 AM
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                      > Those of you who have replaced your HH tarps, what did you use
                      > for a replacement? Marsanne

                      A 10x10. It provides many pitching opportunities.

                      Shane
                    • Mark Bayern
                      ... Is it? So far the tarp on my HH protects the hammock quite well. What I would like is more space for living outside the hammock, under the tarp. Maybe its
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 7 8:38 AM
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                        firefly wrote:
                        > I think the HH tarp is a design error. It looks cool, but is just too
                        > skimpy in the rain.

                        Is it? So far the tarp on my HH protects the hammock quite well.

                        What I would like is more space for living outside the hammock, under
                        the tarp.

                        Maybe its a definition thing, but I don't see the HH tarp as a design
                        error. Of course a hammock system that is billed as the "Ultra-Lite
                        Backpacker" would have a minimal tarp. That helps to make it ultra-lite.

                        Mark
                      • colonelcorn76
                        ... Ultralight. ... loved it. ... Mom was ... was what ... not a ... winds--no ... are strong ... the Sierras. ... I have the HH Ultralight Backpacker & my son
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 8 3:26 PM
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                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "firefly" <firefly@e...>
                          wrote:
                          > Ray, I assume you're talking about HH? I have the Explorer A-Sym
                          Ultralight.
                          > I have been in a calm, early morning rain storm with it before and
                          loved it.
                          > Slept like a baby. (This was in the yard of my parents house and
                          Mom was
                          > looking nervously out the window worrying I was getting wet.) This
                          was what
                          > my folks like to call "a farmer's rain"--steady, not a storm, but
                          not a
                          > sprinkle, either. However, I was camping in DW in some very high
                          winds--no
                          > rain, and I was wondering if those cords that came with the tarp
                          are strong
                          > enough to sustain the kinds of winds you can get in places like
                          the Sierras.
                          > Or should I invest in some Triptease instead? MARSANNE

                          I have the HH Ultralight Backpacker & my son has the Explorer. I
                          replaced the lines on the fly with a combination of the Goller
                          Grabber and Triptease. The Triptease really helps at night 'cause
                          those lines go invisible in a hury.

                          Jerry's Goller gave me a tip on using the elastic tubing from a
                          Wrist Rocket slingshot to create a self-tensioning fly. I attached
                          the surgical rubber tubing from a Wrist Rocket's replacement tubing
                          to the two rings on the fly. Then I slid a 1/4" nylon spacer to
                          which I've attached the Triptease into the end of the tubing. When I
                          hang the hammock I stake it out with the rubber tubing nearly fully
                          extended. Then as the nylon stretches, the rubber contracts and
                          keeps the thing taut throughout the night & any rain. Not gotten wet
                          since I made the mod.

                          Jim
                        • o123david
                          ... I ve stayed dry in strong wind and rain. The underside of the hammock works the same way the old canvas tents used to work. All you have to do is keep the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 17 7:49 PM
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                            >I'm considering a Hennessey Explorer Deluxe A-Sym... but one thing I
                            >can't understand is how the... underside of the hammock wouldn't get
                            >soaked in the rain?
                            >what happens in rain being blown by gusts every which way in a
                            >storm? Sesa

                            I've stayed dry in strong wind and rain.
                            The underside of the hammock works the same way the old canvas tents
                            used to work. All you have to do is keep the material tight and avoid
                            pressing hard against any one point.
                            Your weight keeps the material tight. The pad you are sleeping on
                            lets you avoid putting too much pressure on any one point on the
                            bottom. And you have to avoid pressing hard on any one area along the
                            sides.
                            Even the tiny diamond-shaped tarp on the original hennessy was large
                            enough to block the rain from above. I woke the next morning with my
                            down bag totally dry. --David
                          • dshuby
                            -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, colonelcorn76 ... Jim - I think I got what you are saying. I remember when Jerry talked about this quite some time ago
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 19 9:43 AM
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                              -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "colonelcorn76"
                              > Jerry's Goller gave me a tip on using the elastic tubing from a
                              > Wrist Rocket slingshot to create a self-tensioning fly. I attached
                              > the surgical rubber tubing from a Wrist Rocket's replacement tubing
                              > to the two rings on the fly. Then I slid a 1/4" nylon spacer to
                              > which I've attached the Triptease into the end of the tubing. When I
                              > hang the hammock I stake it out with the rubber tubing nearly fully
                              > extended. Then as the nylon stretches, the rubber contracts and
                              > keeps the thing taut throughout the night & any rain. Not gotten wet
                              > since I made the mod.

                              Jim - I think I got what you are saying. I remember when Jerry talked
                              about this quite some time ago (BPL or BGT?!?), but I didn't have a
                              hammock then so I wasn't paying attention. ;) If I have it right, you
                              are taking rubber tubing and tying it off to each of the rings on the
                              sides of the HH fly. I am missing what you mean by the use of the
                              nylon spacer. I can then understand how the fly line (either the stock
                              2mm line or Triptease which is what I will replace the stock line with
                              when my test series is done) would just be tied off to the rubber
                              tubing and then staked as normal. This would allow the rubber tubing
                              to contract and keep the fly tensioned over time.

                              You could also do something similar by using one line for the hammock
                              body guy and the fly guy. I have been using the elastic line and tying
                              it off to the fly, then staking it out in the middle and allowing it
                              to self-tension. This could work as well if the two lines were
                              connected in some way by rubber tubing and the strain on the lines was
                              roughly equal. Jerry's method allows a bit more adjustment on the fly
                              than what I have been using even though I have used this setup with a
                              trekking pole to adjust the height.

                              Gracias -
                              Dennis
                            • colonelcorn76
                              ... talked ... you ... the ... stock ... with ... tubing ... I included some more detailed directions in a reply to Marsanne s question. The spacer replaces
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 20 7:36 PM
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                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "dshuby" <shubitow@c...>
                                wrote:
                                > Jim - I think I got what you are saying. I remember when Jerry
                                talked
                                > about this quite some time ago (BPL or BGT?!?), but I didn't have a
                                > hammock then so I wasn't paying attention. ;) If I have it right,
                                you
                                > are taking rubber tubing and tying it off to each of the rings on
                                the
                                > sides of the HH fly. I am missing what you mean by the use of the
                                > nylon spacer. I can then understand how the fly line (either the
                                stock
                                > 2mm line or Triptease which is what I will replace the stock line
                                with
                                > when my test series is done) would just be tied off to the rubber
                                > tubing and then staked as normal. This would allow the rubber
                                tubing
                                > to contract and keep the fly tensioned over time.

                                I included some more detailed directions in a reply to Marsanne's
                                question. The spacer replaces the need to "tie" the cord to the
                                rubber tubing. The knot might work loose or untie, whereas using a
                                spacer slipped into the tubing won't budge. I use cord on my
                                Ultralight Backpacker but TripTease on my son's Explorer.

                                >
                                > You could also do something similar by using one line for the
                                hammock
                                > body guy and the fly guy. I have been using the elastic line and
                                tying
                                > it off to the fly, then staking it out in the middle and allowing
                                it
                                > to self-tension.

                                Yeah, I did this originally but it limits somewhat the staking/tie-
                                out options you have. I also can't use my "pull the fly out in my
                                sleep" trick (I just posted that in another reply above).

                                >Jerry's method allows a bit more adjustment on the fly
                                > than what I have been using even though I have used this setup
                                with a
                                > trekking pole to adjust the height.

                                Precisely why I use it. Elegant solution that keeps maximum options
                                open at minimal extra weight.

                                Jim
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