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"next generation" insulator bag

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  • Ray Garlington
    I m thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the next generation insulation for the Garlington Insulator. The idea is to fashion the equivalent of
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 28, 2003
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      I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
      generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator. The idea is to
      fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
      strength since you won't be lying on it. It seems that placing a
      very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
      it. The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.

      Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
      material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
      like must reside inside a thermarest. Anybody have any good leads?
    • Risk
      Hi Ray, The lightest compressable batting I know of is PolarGuard3. Since you do not need lay on it, it would work. Even lighter would be some down chambers
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 28, 2003
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        Hi Ray,

        The lightest compressable batting I know of is PolarGuard3. Since
        you do not need lay on it, it would work. Even lighter would be some
        down chambers with high loft down. I believe all foam rubber
        products would be much heavier and bulkier. Of course this is the
        underquilt idea again. However tying it on a la the original
        Garlington insulator would be an improvement worth testing. I see
        the possibility of a 1.1 oz garlington snuggly up against the hammock
        with down or polarguard chambers hangingg in the right places to give
        warmth.

        Rick

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
        <rgarling@y...> wrote:
        > I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
        > generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator. The idea is
        to
        > fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
        > strength since you won't be lying on it. It seems that placing a
        > very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
        > it. The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.
        >
        > Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
        > material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
        > like must reside inside a thermarest. Anybody have any good leads?
      • Dave Womble
        Ray, I saw some rolled open cell foam at a local Hancock Fabric store in the Atlanta, GA area, and maybe even some flat sheets. I didn t measure it but I m
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 28, 2003
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          Ray,

          I saw some rolled open cell foam at a local Hancock Fabric store in
          the Atlanta, GA area, and maybe even some flat sheets. I didn't
          measure it but I'm guessing it was about 1" thick and maybe 30"
          wide. I was looking at it wondering what I could do with it to
          insulate my hammock, but then I wondered what I was going to do when
          it got wet and also wondered how I was going to compress it to carry
          on/in my backpack. I also saw that they had a couple of different
          types of insulation for single, double, queen and king size beds...I
          got excited again, but then the wet/compression issues set-in again --
          - and then my two layer hammock with closed cell foam for insulation
          didn't seem so bad, not to mention Ed's Peapod. Anyway, I think
          Hancock Fabric has a web site. There is a web site that I have
          visited that may have something that interest you, www.foambymail.com.

          Let me know if you want to go by the fabric store and get some info.

          Youngblood

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
          <rgarling@y...> wrote:
          > I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
          > generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator. The idea is
          to
          > fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
          > strength since you won't be lying on it. It seems that placing a
          > very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
          > it. The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.
          >
          > Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
          > material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
          > like must reside inside a thermarest. Anybody have any good leads?
        • firefly
          RAY, When you get this settled I wish you would make these and sell them, for those of us who would rather spend $30 and get the issue settled than hours
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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            RAY,
            When you get this settled I wish you would make these and sell them, for those of us who would rather spend $30 and get the issue settled than hours playing around with different attempts that may or may not work.  The first night I was in Desolation Wilderness I slept cold, which meant a trip back into South Lake Tahoe looking for the stuff I needed to fix the problem. That led to a trip to North Lake Tahoe, (for something else) which meant half a day back in civilization when I would have rather been in the wilderness.  But, as one PCT thru-hiker wisely told me, everybody goes through this to some degree. You don't really know what you need and don't need until you're out there. I shuttled 2 of them down to Reno to make the rounds of Sierra Trading Post and REI and I am glad I did. Marsanne 


             
            I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
            generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator.  The idea is to
            fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
            strength since you won't be lying on it.  It seems that placing a
            very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
            it.  The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.

            Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
            material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
            like must reside inside a thermarest.  Anybody have any good leads?



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          • ciyd01
            I ve been thinking about cold weather, too, and have been thinking about the underquilt. Ray s new insulator idea is similar to what I have in mind but using
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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              I've been thinking about cold weather, too, and have been thinking
              about the underquilt. Ray's new insulator idea is similar to what I
              have in mind but using an open cell foam. So, the things I've been
              thinking through that might apply to the new insulator:

              Using sil-nylon for the bottom. It's windproof and water proof and
              would keep any rain from making its way into the insulation. Using a
              breathable fabric on the top (the side that faces, or touches, the
              bottom of the hammock).

              Ray, if you used sil-nylon on one side and a water proof breathable
              on the other side you could keep the insulation from absorbing water
              but it would not hold air like a thermarest. If you used sil-nylon
              on both sides, and installed a valve, you would have the equivalent
              of the thermarest, but much lighter. The sil-nylon would be the
              vapor barrier. You could even incorporate a layer of mylar
              with/instead of one of these layers and get the reflective
              properties, too.

              I've been thinking of using primaloft as the insulation instead of
              foam. I think it would be lighter, pack better and insulate as well
              as the open cell foam.

              As for a good source for open cell foam, try an upholstery shop or
              fabric shop that sells upholstery fabrics. That's what they put in
              furniture and they do make it thin enough to recover kitchen chairs.
              That's what my grandmother always used.

              ciyd

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "firefly" <firefly@e...> wrote:
              > RAY,
              > When you get this settled I wish you would make these and sell
              them, for
              > those of us who would rather spend $30 and get the issue settled
              than hours
              > playing around with different attempts that may or may not work.

              > I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
              > generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator. The idea is
              to
              > fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
              > strength since you won't be lying on it. It seems that placing a
              > very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
              > it. The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.
              >
              > Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
              > material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable
              foam
              > like must reside inside a thermarest. Anybody have any good
              leads?
            • Ray Garlington
              ... and a water proof breathable on the other side you could keep the insulation from absorbing water but it would not hold air like a thermarest. If you used
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ciyd01" <ciyd@a...> wrote:
                ...
                > So, the things I've been
                > thinking through that might apply to the new insulator:
                >
                > Using sil-nylon for the bottom....if you used sil-nylon on one side
                and a water proof breathable on the other side you could keep the
                insulation from absorbing water but it would not hold air like a
                thermarest. If you used sil-nylon on both sides, and installed a
                valve, you would have the equivalent of the thermarest, but much
                lighter.

                I had been thinking of using a silnylon bag also (had not thought
                about breathable on one side though). Perhaps it only needs a
                lightweight nylon that is merely water resistant, like most sleeping
                bags. I am sold on the idea of the shell being a separate component
                that could have dual use (poncho or small tarp) if not needed for
                insulating the hammock.

                > I've been thinking of using primaloft as the insulation instead of
                > foam. I think it would be lighter, pack better and insulate as
                well as the open cell foam.
                >
                Yes the goal is the lightest & most compressible insulation in the
                lightest water-resistant, durable bag. Do you know a good source for
                primaloft?
              • ciyd01
                ... doh! The GI uses Sil-nylon. For some caffeine depleated reason I had the plastic bags in my head when I wrote that. Anyway, foam info:
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                  > Ray, if you used sil-nylon on one side

                  doh! The GI uses Sil-nylon. For some caffeine depleated reason I
                  had the plastic bags in my head when I wrote that.

                  Anyway, foam info:

                  http://home.att.net/~upholsterybycaroline/furniturefoamcushionmaterial
                  .html

                  this has a nice description of different types of upholstery foam
                  including information on density and 'indentation load deflection'
                  which is probably the parameter you are concerned with.

                  A quick google search on the words 'upholstery foam' will get you
                  plenty of suppliers and info pages.

                  Hope this helps.
                • Risk
                  Ray wrote: Do you know a good source for ... See: http://www.owfinc.com/Fabrics/insulation.asp The entry above Primaloft is PolarGuard3D (Though they can not
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                    Ray wrote:

                    Do you know a good source for
                    > primaloft?

                    See:

                    http://www.owfinc.com/Fabrics/insulation.asp

                    The entry above Primaloft is PolarGuard3D (Though they can not sat
                    that) which is generally a little lighter and more compressable.

                    Rick
                  • ciyd01
                    ... wrote: Quest outfitters sells Primaloft, also. www.questoutfitters.com ... for
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
                      <rgarling@y...> wrote:

                      Quest outfitters sells Primaloft, also.

                      www.questoutfitters.com

                      > Yes the goal is the lightest & most compressible insulation in the
                      > lightest water-resistant, durable bag. Do you know a good source
                      for
                      > primaloft?
                    • Ed Speer
                      Hi Ray, I ve been considering using the cutoff insulation from my PeaPods for the same thing! It s lighter than foam of course and compresses greatly for
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                        Message
                        Hi Ray, I've been considering using the cutoff insulation from my PeaPods for the same thing!  It's lighter than foam of course and compresses greatly for storage.  Can be made for any thickness, say 1" to 5".  The insulation is LiteLoft w/ R factor of 2.2 for 0.8" thickness--weight of 0.8" thick layer is 2.7 oz/yd2.  I've even made up some  insulation pads already with ripstop nylon shells on each side--the pads are about 12" X 24"X 0.8". As many as needed can be stacked inside your trashbag.  Very convenient and easy to carry.  Still working out the details of ideal size & thickness, but they work extremely well.  Haven't worked on them since cold weather last winter, but will continue research once cold weather returns...Ed
                         
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
                        Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:58 AM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                        I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
                        generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator.  The idea is to
                        fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
                        strength since you won't be lying on it.  It seems that placing a
                        very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
                        it.  The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.

                        Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
                        material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
                        like must reside inside a thermarest.  Anybody have any good leads?



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                        hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • firefly
                        MessageI mean this respectfully, not as a criticism: For those of us not as interested in the minutae of the process, this is like watching paint dry, reading
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                          Message
                          I mean this respectfully, not as a criticism: For those of us not as interested in the minutae of the process, this is like watching paint dry, reading all this. When somebody gets to a conclusion, please make something like that part of your subject line. Like this "HEY! BREAKTHROUGH IN WARM HAMMOCK SLEEPING"  Until then, yall have fun, but this is making my eyes glaze over.  Marsanne 
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:34 PM
                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                          Hi Ray, I've been considering using the cutoff insulation from my PeaPods for the same thing!  It's lighter than foam of course and compresses greatly for storage.  Can be made for any thickness, say 1" to 5".  The insulation is LiteLoft w/ R factor of 2.2 for 0.8" thickness--weight of 0.8" thick layer is 2.7 oz/yd2.  I've even made up some  insulation pads already with ripstop nylon shells on each side--the pads are about 12" X 24"X 0.8". As many as needed can be stacked inside your trashbag.  Very convenient and easy to carry.  Still working out the details of ideal size & thickness, but they work extremely well.  Haven't worked on them since cold weather last winter, but will continue research once cold weather returns...Ed
                           
                           
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
                          Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:58 AM
                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                          I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
                          generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator.  The idea is to
                          fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
                          strength since you won't be lying on it.  It seems that placing a
                          very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
                          it.  The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.

                          Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
                          material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
                          like must reside inside a thermarest.  Anybody have any good leads?



                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        • Robert Logue
                          Funny, but I am fascinated by the process of experimenting and building on the successes and failures as much or more than the final result. It s the journey
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 29, 2003
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                            Funny, but I am fascinated by the process of experimenting and
                            building on the successes and failures as much or more than the final
                            result. It's the journey that's the reward, not the destination. But,
                            you know, I understand your point perfectly. It takes all kinds and
                            that's what makes life interesting. -Bob

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "firefly" <firefly@e...> wrote:
                            > MessageI mean this respectfully, not as a criticism: For those of
                            us not as
                            > interested in the minutae of the process, this is like watching
                            paint dry,
                            > reading all this. When somebody gets to a conclusion, please make
                            something
                            > like that part of your subject line. Like this "HEY! BREAKTHROUGH
                            IN WARM
                            > HAMMOCK SLEEPING" Until then, yall have fun, but this is making my
                            eyes
                            > glaze over. Marsanne
                          • firefly
                            When I am on vacation or work is slow (HA!) I do find this kind of thing interesting. However, I keep reading these posts to see if anyone has solved the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 30, 2003
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                              When I am on vacation or work is slow (HA!) I do find this kind of thing interesting. However, I keep reading these posts to see if anyone has solved the problem and I keep getting details. NOT anybody's problem but mine, LOL!  Thanks for not being offended. Don't let me be a party pooper, just please put something in the subject line when yall have come up with something.  Marsanne


                               
                              Funny, but I am fascinated by the process of experimenting and
                              building on the successes and failures as much or more than the final
                              result. It's the journey that's the reward, not the destination. But,
                              you know, I understand your point perfectly. It takes all kinds and
                              that's what makes life interesting. -Bob




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                              hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                            • Ed Speer
                              I know exactly what you mean Marsanne! I too get a little bewildered by it all--and this stuff is my life right now! But I find I eagerly read each message,
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 30, 2003
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                                Message
                                I know exactly what you mean Marsanne!  I too get a little bewildered by it all--and this stuff is my life right now!  But I find I eagerly read each message, even though I don't have time to respond to them all.  Posting final results is practical though--I hope to use the monthly newsletters to do this as well as summerize the progress; maybe I'll add a section on "Progress from the Field"....Ed
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: firefly [mailto:firefly@...]
                                Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:03 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                                I mean this respectfully, not as a criticism: For those of us not as interested in the minutae of the process, this is like watching paint dry, reading all this. When somebody gets to a conclusion, please make something like that part of your subject line. Like this "HEY! BREAKTHROUGH IN WARM HAMMOCK SLEEPING"  Until then, yall have fun, but this is making my eyes glaze over.  Marsanne 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
                                Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:34 PM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                                Hi Ray, I've been considering using the cutoff insulation from my PeaPods for the same thing!  It's lighter than foam of course and compresses greatly for storage.  Can be made for any thickness, say 1" to 5".  The insulation is LiteLoft w/ R factor of 2.2 for 0.8" thickness--weight of 0.8" thick layer is 2.7 oz/yd2.  I've even made up some  insulation pads already with ripstop nylon shells on each side--the pads are about 12" X 24"X 0.8". As many as needed can be stacked inside your trashbag.  Very convenient and easy to carry.  Still working out the details of ideal size & thickness, but they work extremely well.  Haven't worked on them since cold weather last winter, but will continue research once cold weather returns...Ed
                                 
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Ray Garlington [mailto:rgarling@...]
                                Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:58 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Hammock Camping "next generation" insulator bag

                                I'm thinking about cool fall weather, and the devising the "next
                                generation" insulation for the Garlington Insulator.  The idea is to
                                fashion the equivalent of the Thermarest, without the need for
                                strength since you won't be lying on it.  It seems that placing a
                                very-light open cell foam pad inside a large plastic bag might do
                                it.  The foam should compress well, so as to pack small.

                                Some have suggested looking in Walmart or Lowes for a suitable
                                material, but I can't seem to locate a very light compressable foam
                                like must reside inside a thermarest.  Anybody have any good leads?



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                                hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                              • Risk
                                Nah, Just kidding. :) Hi Marsanne, You wrote: ...this is making my eyes glaze over. Can I watch?? Please? I know what you mean. Sometimes I have to skip
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 30, 2003
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                                  Nah, Just kidding. :)

                                  Hi Marsanne,

                                  You wrote: "...this is making my eyes glaze over."

                                  Can I watch?? Please?

                                  I know what you mean. Sometimes I have to skip some messages too.
                                  However I do learn something from every little step that someone on
                                  the board takes.

                                  Staying warm in a hammock is super important. I don't believe we have
                                  a foolproof, lightweight, system for all weather. So it is very
                                  interesting to me to hear about every experiment someone reports where
                                  the goal was to stay warm.

                                  Ray's Garlington Insulator, Ed's Peapod, the doublebottom hammock, the
                                  target pad, the other insulators tried by others; all are fascinating
                                  as they develop over time.

                                  My $.02

                                  Rick
                                • firefly
                                  THIS IS FUNNY! Marsanne (Busy trying to get off the beach while playing Medal of Honor Allied Assault, Operation Overlord) Nah, Just kidding. :) Hi Marsanne,
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 31, 2003
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                                    THIS IS FUNNY!  Marsanne (Busy trying to get off the beach while playing Medal of Honor Allied Assault, Operation Overlord)

                                     
                                    Nah, Just kidding.  :)

                                    Hi Marsanne,

                                    You wrote: "...this is making my eyes glaze over." 

                                    Can I watch??  Please?

                                    I know what you mean.  Sometimes I have to skip some messages too.
                                    However I do learn something from every little step that someone on
                                    the board takes. 

                                    Staying warm in a hammock is super important.  I don't believe we have
                                    a foolproof, lightweight, system for all weather.  So it is very
                                    interesting to me to hear about every experiment someone reports where
                                    the goal was to stay warm. 

                                    Ray's Garlington Insulator, Ed's Peapod, the doublebottom hammock, the
                                    target pad, the other insulators tried by others;  all are fascinating
                                    as they develop over time.

                                    My $.02

                                    Rick


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