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quick adjustment idea

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  • SG
    Since I have been hammock camping there has been one aspect of it that I find a bit annoying-especially since I have my sons hammocks to attend to as
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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      Since I have been hammock camping there has been one aspect of it
      that I find a bit annoying-especially since I have my sons hammocks
      to attend to as well-adjusting the tie ropes once they have
      stretched. The HH knot is a pain to have to re-tie.

      Well this weekend I tested out a new hanging method. I bought some 6'
      Kayak straps. They are made out of 1" webbing with aluminum
      fasteners. I tied these around the tree and used two small
      carabineers (gates opposite each other) to hook in a figure 8 knot
      from the hammock. After lounging in the hammock for a while the ropes
      stretched-as they always do-but this time I only needed to pull the
      straps and presto tight ropes again. Worked like a charm.
    • Ed Speer
      Great idea, can t wait to try it myself...Ed ... From: SG [mailto:stgga@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:04 AM To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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        Message
        Great idea, can't wait to try it myself...Ed
        -----Original Message-----
        From: SG [mailto:stgga@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:04 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Hammock Camping quick adjustment idea

        Since I have been hammock camping there has been one aspect of it
        that I find a bit annoying-especially since I have my sons hammocks
        to attend to as well-adjusting the tie ropes once they have
        stretched. The HH knot is a pain to have to re-tie.

        Well this weekend I tested out a new hanging method. I bought some 6'
        Kayak straps. They are made out of 1" webbing with aluminum
        fasteners. I tied these around the tree and used two small
        carabineers (gates opposite each other) to hook in a figure 8 knot
        from the hammock. After lounging in the hammock for a while the ropes
        stretched-as they always do-but this time I only needed to pull the
        straps and presto tight ropes again. Worked like a charm.




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      • firefly
        You used two small biners on each end, for 4 total? What size biners? The ones sold for climbing are heavy but not sure the smaller ones can hold a person s
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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          You used two small biners on each end, for 4 total? What size biners? The ones sold for climbing are heavy but not sure the smaller ones can hold a person's weight. So exactly what size biners did you use? How did you attach them to the hammock lines? I don't understand "figure 8". Are you talking about weaving the lines through the biners like a figure 8?
           
           I agree about re-tying that knot. It's a PAIN. I was almost asleep one night last week when I had to get out and retie in the dark with skeeters buzzing around me. I would love a simpler way which is still secure. For years I have used those cam buckled lines to attach canoes and kayaks and I love them. They beat the heck out of every other method...so much simpler. Marsanne.

          Well this weekend I tested out a new hanging method. I bought some 6'
          Kayak straps. They are made out of 1" webbing with aluminum
          fasteners. I tied these around the tree and used two small
          carabineers (gates opposite each other) to hook in a figure 8 knot
          from the hammock. After lounging in the hammock for a while the ropes
          stretched-as they always do-but this time I only needed to pull the
          straps and presto tight ropes again. Worked like a charm.




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          hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        • Shane
          ... I ve been doing something very similar for awhile. It sure makes setup a snap, doesn t it? Here s my write-up on the subject. (Note to ED: Feel free to
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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            > Well this weekend I tested out a new hanging method. I
            > bought some 6' Kayak straps. They are made out of 1"
            > webbing with aluminum fasteners. I tied these around
            > the tree and used two small carabineers (gates opposite
            > each other) to hook in a figure 8 knot from the
            > hammock. After lounging in the hammock for a while the
            > ropes stretched-as they always do-but this time I only
            > needed to pull the straps and presto tight ropes again.
            > Worked like a charm.

            I've been doing something very similar for awhile. It sure makes setup a
            snap, doesn't it?

            Here's my write-up on the subject. (Note to ED: Feel free to use all or
            part of this in the newsletter.)

            I use 1" webbing and two carabineers rigged to let me set it up without
            tying any knots.

            There are actually two methods, one of which is shown here:

            http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/journals/shane/images/020524/DSC021
            04.jpg

            or

            http://tinyurl.com/bnnv


            What you see in the picture are three pieces of webbing, two carabineers,
            and the hammock. On the right is the long piece of webbing - about 5' long
            after the knots are tied. Knots are tied like this double figure of eight,
            pictured on this page:

            http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

            The length is to go around larger trees. For smaller trees, wrap twice.
            Clip carabineer through loops. On the left side are actually two pieces of
            webbing, 3' long after the knots are tied (as above). One short piece can
            be used around a small tree, or the two pieces can be looped together (as
            they are here) to make a longer piece to go around a larger tree or to give
            extra length (as they do here). Clip carabineer through loops. Unroll
            hammock, clip hammock to carabineers, and you're done.

            This system uses no knots, but has no adjustment. You have to find trees
            more or less the right distance apart - which isn't hard to do down here in
            the south. You could retie the loops and have all the adjustment you like,
            I am just too damn lazy... At the end of the day, I want to make camp NOW.
            I want to make camp and be cooking my dinner in less than five minutes. With
            this rig, setup is less than a minute. The ridgeline can be strung and the
            tarp and/or bug net put up or not depending on conditions. I can stop and
            be ready with a hot dinner in ten minutes - which is a tremendous plus
            in the cold. Camp chores are just that - chores - and I'd prefer to get on
            doing other things, like dancing naked in the rain...

            What I've come up with recently, is this: You can adjust the tension
            instantly with no fear of slippage. I just worked this out for Bob with his
            new Hennessy, since his knot skills aren't very good, and it works great.
            Personally, I am lazy, and Tom's knot is fairly difficult to understand from
            the illustration on the bag, so I wanted something different.

            You will need:

            Hammock w/ropes. (Any hammock will do. Some hammocks don't have ropes, they
            have loops, which will work just as well - just clip the 'carabineers in the
            loops.)
            2 Carabineers (you can find 35 gram careeners)
            1" Webbing strap, 15 feet long.
            1 tie down strap available from any auto parts store.

            (We discarded the straps that came with the Hennessy because they were too
            short (about 36"). We have BIG trees down here in the south, and we needed
            something more substantial.)

            Tie the carabineers to the hammock ropes as close to the hammock on the
            ridge line as you can. (If your hammock has loops instead of a rope, just
            clip the carabineers to the loops.) If you have a Hennessy, this means that
            the carabineers can be no closer to the hammock than the maximum extension
            of the canopy on the ridge line. You will have a lot of excess rope. If
            you are REALLY brave,
            you can cut the excess off - but DON'T do this until AFTER you have set the
            hammock up and tensioned the tarp for the first time to make sure you have
            enough distance between the carabineers.

            Ok, now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, or the carabineers
            clipped to the loops. Now get your webbing strap. Cut it in half, then cut
            14 inches off one piece. You'll now have three pieces. Singe all cut ends
            with a cigarette lighter or other fire source so that the ends don't fray.
            On the middle piece, tie loops in both ends using a double figure of eight
            knot in the ends of the webbing strap. In other words, fold 10 inches or so
            of the strap together and tie an overhand knot.

            http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

            On the long piece, tie only one end with the double figure of eight loop,
            and leave the other end untied.
            The loops, when you are done, should be 3-4 inches. If you have, or know
            someone with, a saddle stitcher, you could stitch the loops instead of tying
            the knots - but remember that your whole weight will be depending on those
            stitches not to drop you on your butt at night...

            Now you have the Carabineers tied to the hammock, and loops in your webbing.

            Next we need a tie down strap, such as this:
            http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=174529&BQ=jcw2

            There are actually two types of tie down straps, available at any auto-parts
            store. Ratcheting and non-ratcheting. I used the non-ratcheting type,
            because they are lighter. Just be sure you buy the heavy duty type and not
            the one that's only rated for about 300 pounds. The first thing you notice
            about tie down straps is that they are extremely heavy. This is because of
            the steel S hooks on each end. Discard EVERYTHING except the tensioning
            device. We used the webbing that came with the tie down strap at first, but
            then it broke. It
            was very thin and flimsy... The tensioning device are very light, as you
            will notice. (3-4 ounces?) Take the 14" piece of webbing and pass it
            around the back bar (non-adjusting side) of the tensioning device, then tie
            a water knot to make a loop.

            http://brmrg.med.virginia.edu/knots/water.html

            This loop is where you will clip one of the carabineers. Feed the untied
            end of the long piece of webbing into the tensioner.

            Now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, a long piece of webbing
            with loops, a tensioning device with a loop on the back side, and a long
            piece of webbing fed into the tensioner with a loop on the far end.

            Now you can set up that hammock in less than 60 seconds and tie no knots.
            Find 2 trees of an appropriate diameter about 15 feet or so apart.

            Ready? GO!

            Unroll hammock between trees. Wrap webbing with two loops around tree #1 as
            many times as you can and still clip the carabineer between the two loops.
            Clip carabineer #1 to loops. Move to tree #2. Pass long webbing strap
            w/loop end around tree. Pass tensioning device through loop. Pull until
            the large lasso loop you have just made pulls tight to the tree. Clip
            carabineer #2 to webbing loop on back of tensioning device. Grasp loose end
            of webbing in tensioning device and pull tight.

            Voila! Done with no knots tied. If the hammock stretches a little, and
            there is some slack in your ridgeline, simply grasp the loose end of the
            webbing in the tensioner and pull it tight. If you have used the ratcheting
            type of tensioner, which is heavier, just crank it tight. No need to untie
            knots and retie. Just remember not to pull it TOO tight. You can break the
            ridgeline in a Hennessy like this. Most hammocks sleep better with a little
            slack.

            To break it down, depress the lever on the tensioning device, release some
            slack, and then unclip the carabineers. If you wind up between two trees
            too far apart, tie a figure of eight loop on the end of the Hammock rope,
            pass that through the webbing loops, then clip the carabineer to the rope
            loop. If you wind up between two trees that are WAY too far apart, and have
            no other options, you can untie and retie one or both of the carabineers,
            but with enough webbing in the tensioner (10' or so) you won't have any
            problems. Of course, if you have cut the excess rope off, you won't have
            either of those two options. You can use shorter pieces of webbing if the
            trees where you hike are small, or if you are willing to find smaller trees
            the right distance apart.

            I promise to have pictures of all of this soon...

            Shane
          • firefly
            I just spent a solid week living in my hammock. There was NO PART of your fine brain that did not think to post this EARLIER? I even looked at your website
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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              I just spent a solid week living in my hammock. There was NO PART of your fine brain that did not think to post this EARLIER? I even looked at your website before I left to make sure I had your knot right! What about if you get your cute little video camera out and update your website? I am about to show my H hammock to the governor's GORGEOUS chief of staff, who is taking his family canoe camping in the Atchafalaya Basin in October. It would be nice to have a video to show him. (He is married, though, and such a hunk that if I were his wife there is no way I would opt for 2 hammocks instead of a tent..) I had a lot of fun on the PCT section, showing off my hammock to weary thru-hikers. 80 % of them looked at it with envy. Marsanne



              I've been doing something very similar for awhile.  It sure makes setup a
              snap, doesn't it?

              Here's my write-up on the subject.  (Note to ED: Feel free to use all or
              part of this in the newsletter.)

              I use 1" webbing and two carabineers rigged to let me set it up without
              tying any knots.

              There are actually two methods, one of which is shown here:

              http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/journals/shane/images/020524/DSC021
              04.jpg

              or

              http://tinyurl.com/bnnv


              What you see in the picture are three pieces of webbing, two carabineers,
              and the hammock.  On the right is the long piece of webbing - about 5' long
              after the knots are tied.  Knots are tied like this double figure of eight,
              pictured on this page:

              http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

              The length is to go around larger trees.  For smaller trees, wrap twice.
              Clip carabineer through loops.  On the left side are actually two pieces of
              webbing, 3' long after the knots are tied (as above).  One short piece can
              be used around a small tree, or the two pieces can be looped together (as
              they are here) to make a longer piece to go around a larger tree or to give
              extra length (as they do here).  Clip carabineer through loops.  Unroll
              hammock, clip hammock to carabineers, and you're done.

              This system uses no knots, but has no adjustment.  You have to find trees
              more or less the right distance apart - which isn't hard to do down here in
              the south.  You could retie the loops and have all the adjustment you like,
              I am just too damn lazy...  At the end of the day, I want to make camp NOW.
              I want to make camp and be cooking my dinner in less than five minutes. With
              this rig, setup is less than a minute.  The ridgeline can be strung and the
              tarp and/or bug net put up or not depending on conditions.  I can stop and
              be ready with a hot dinner in ten minutes - which is a tremendous plus
              in the cold.  Camp chores are just that - chores - and I'd prefer to get on
              doing other things, like dancing naked in the rain...

              What I've come up with recently, is this:  You can adjust the tension
              instantly with no fear of slippage.  I just worked this out for Bob with his
              new Hennessy, since his knot skills aren't very good, and it works great.
              Personally, I am lazy, and Tom's knot is fairly difficult to understand from
              the illustration on the bag, so I wanted something different.

              You will need:

              Hammock w/ropes. (Any hammock will do.  Some hammocks don't have ropes, they
              have loops, which will work just as well - just clip the 'carabineers in the
              loops.)
              2 Carabineers (you can find 35 gram careeners)
              1" Webbing strap, 15 feet long.
              1 tie down strap available from any auto parts store.

              (We discarded the straps that came with the Hennessy because they were too
              short (about 36").  We have BIG trees down here in the south, and we needed
              something more substantial.)

              Tie the carabineers to the hammock ropes as close to the hammock on the
              ridge line as you can.  (If your hammock has loops instead of a rope, just
              clip the carabineers to the loops.)  If you have a Hennessy, this means that
              the carabineers can be no closer to the hammock than the maximum extension
              of the canopy on the ridge line.  You will have a lot of excess rope.  If
              you are REALLY brave,
              you can cut the excess off - but DON'T do this until AFTER you have set the
              hammock up and tensioned the tarp for the first time to make sure you have
              enough distance between the carabineers.

              Ok, now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, or the carabineers
              clipped to the loops. Now get your webbing strap.  Cut it in half, then cut
              14 inches off one piece.  You'll now have three pieces.  Singe all cut ends
              with a cigarette lighter or other fire source so that the ends don't fray.
              On the middle piece, tie loops in both ends using a double figure of eight
              knot in the ends of the webbing strap.  In other words, fold 10 inches or so
              of the strap together and tie an overhand knot.

              http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

              On the long piece, tie only one end with the double figure of eight loop,
              and leave the other end untied.
              The loops, when you are done, should be 3-4 inches.  If you have, or know
              someone with, a saddle stitcher, you could stitch the loops instead of tying
              the knots - but remember that your whole weight will be depending on those
              stitches not to drop you on your butt at night...

              Now you have the Carabineers tied to the hammock, and loops in your webbing.

              Next we need a tie down strap, such as this:
              http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=174529&BQ=jcw2

              There are actually two types of tie down straps, available at any auto-parts
              store.  Ratcheting and non-ratcheting.  I used the non-ratcheting type,
              because they are lighter.  Just be sure you buy the heavy duty type and not
              the one that's only rated for about 300 pounds.  The first thing you notice
              about tie down straps is that they are extremely heavy.  This is because of
              the steel S hooks on each end.  Discard EVERYTHING except the tensioning
              device.  We used the webbing that came with the tie down strap at first, but
              then it broke.  It
              was very thin and flimsy...  The tensioning device are very light, as you
              will notice.  (3-4 ounces?)  Take the 14" piece of webbing and pass it
              around the back bar (non-adjusting side) of the tensioning device, then tie
              a water knot to make a loop.

              http://brmrg.med.virginia.edu/knots/water.html

              This loop is where you will clip one of the carabineers.  Feed the untied
              end of the long piece of webbing into the tensioner.

              Now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, a long piece of webbing
              with loops, a tensioning device with a loop on the back side, and a long
              piece of webbing fed into the tensioner with a loop on the far end.

              Now you can set up that hammock in less than 60 seconds and tie no knots.
              Find 2 trees of an appropriate diameter about 15 feet or so apart.

              Ready?  GO!

              Unroll hammock between trees.  Wrap webbing with two loops around tree #1 as
              many times as you can and still clip the carabineer between the two loops.
              Clip carabineer #1 to loops.  Move to tree #2.  Pass long webbing strap
              w/loop end around tree.  Pass tensioning device through loop.  Pull until
              the large lasso loop you have just made pulls tight to the tree.  Clip
              carabineer #2 to webbing loop on back of tensioning device.  Grasp loose end
              of webbing in tensioning device and pull tight.

              Voila! Done with no knots tied.  If the hammock stretches a little, and
              there is some slack in your ridgeline, simply grasp the loose end of the
              webbing in the tensioner and pull it tight.  If you have used the ratcheting
              type of tensioner, which is heavier, just crank it tight.  No need to untie
              knots and retie.  Just remember not to pull it TOO tight.  You can break the
              ridgeline in a Hennessy like this.  Most hammocks sleep better with a little
              slack.

              To break it down, depress the lever on the tensioning device, release some
              slack, and then unclip the carabineers.  If you wind up between two trees
              too far apart, tie a figure of eight loop on the end of the Hammock rope,
              pass that through the webbing loops, then clip the carabineer to the rope
              loop.  If you wind up between two trees that are WAY too far apart, and have
              no other options, you can untie and retie one or both of the carabineers,
              but with enough webbing in the tensioner (10' or so) you won't have any
              problems.  Of course, if you have cut the excess rope off, you won't have
              either of those two options.  You can use shorter pieces of webbing if the
              trees where you hike are small, or if you are willing to find smaller trees
              the right distance apart.

              I promise to have pictures of all of this soon...

              Shane



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            • ciyd01
              I have a couple of questions on the setup. I m not using the tie down tensioner, but it may be something I add to my setup, but I do have a 10 length of
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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                I have a couple of questions on the setup. I'm not using the tie
                down tensioner, but it may be something I add to my setup, but I do
                have a 10' length of webbing for the large trees we have in the
                Pacific NW. Here goes:

                > What you see in the picture are three pieces of webbing, two
                carabineers,
                > and the hammock. On the right is the long piece of webbing - about
                5' long
                > after the knots are tied. Knots are tied like this double figure
                of eight,

                Is this to create a continous loop of webbing or to tie a loop int eh
                webbing?

                If so, I would recommend that you stick with the water knot you
                reference. It's the knot rock climbers use to tie webbing pieces
                together, or to themselves, and is the strongest knot for webbing.
                It's self cinching, like the figure 8, is easier to untie, and plays
                to the strengths of webbing (which is flat). I've fallen many many
                many times on water knots and they are strong and dependable. They
                are also very easy to untie, just roll the knot between your palms a
                couple of times to loosen the knot. The water knot also has the
                advantage over the follow through figure eight in that it uses a lot
                less rope/webbing/cord to tie, leaving you more usable webbing
                length. The water knot should not be used for rope or cordage, which
                is round, because it doesn't create enough friction to keep the knot
                tight. The figure 8 or the double fisherman's knot is better for
                rope and cordage.

                If not, what is the follow through figure eight doing?

                > One short piece can
                > be used around a small tree, or the two pieces can be looped
                together (as
                > they are here) to make a longer piece to go around a larger tree or
                to give
                > extra length (as they do here).

                Again, I would use a water knot to lengthen connect the webbing
                pieces.

                > Clip carabineer through loops. Unroll
                > hammock, clip hammock to carabineers, and you're done.

                Brilliant, just brilliant! Have you ever considered writing a book
                or creating an instruction video for hammocking? If not, you should.

                > On the middle piece, tie loops in both ends using a double figure
                of eight
                > knot in the ends of the webbing strap. In other words, fold 10
                inches or so
                > of the strap together and tie an overhand knot.

                I'm not following this very well, I guess I need visuals. Two figure
                eights is not one water knot.

                > http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

                Great link with an excellent visual of how to tie the water knot in
                webbing. Keep the webbing flat - no twists, no rolls - the water
                knot relies on keeping the two pieces of webbing perfectly flat
                against one another.

                > Just remember not to pull it TOO tight. You can break the
                > ridgeline in a Hennessy like this.

                Yikes! I guess I never really thought about breaking the ridge
                line. Has anybody ever broked one by tightening by hand? I don't
                think I'm stong enough to do so.

                > I promise to have pictures of all of this soon...

                Ah, visuals. I need pictures or a demonstration for this type of
                thing.

                Thanks for sharing the great idea.

                ciyd
              • colonelcorn76
                ... About 80% of the AT thru-hikers on the CT section two weeks ago were running with Hennessey Ultralight Backpackers. The religion seems to have caught on up
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "firefly" <firefly@e...>
                  wrote:
                  >I had a lot of fun on the PCT section, showing off my hammock
                  > to weary thru-hikers. 80 % of them looked at it with envy. Marsanne

                  About 80% of the AT thru-hikers on the CT section two weeks ago were
                  running with Hennessey Ultralight Backpackers. The religion seems to
                  have caught on up here.

                  I convinced a friend to make the migration last week. I let him use
                  mine...and then made him use his tent the next night!

                  BTW, I tied a bowline knot in the ridgeline of my HH on the foot end
                  next to the prussik knot that clips the fly on. Then when I need a
                  quick adjustment to take up the slack, I bring the bitter end of the
                  line that's leftover from the Hennessey hitch at the tree thru the
                  bowline and pull it tight (a la' a trucker's hitch), tie it off to
                  the rideline using a couple of half-hitches and I'm good to go.
                  Fast, no extra weight, and I have an easy way to tell which end is
                  the foot end when it's in the snakeskins.

                  Jim
                • Coy
                  I cut out all messages, the title says it all. LOL Coy Boy
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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                    I cut out all messages, the title says it all. LOL

                    Coy Boy
                  • Shane Steinkamp
                    ... Well, you didn t ask. ;) ... Working on that... Maybe you should come hiking with me and I ll have a better model for the videos. ... That means that 20%
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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                      > I just spent a solid week living in my hammock. There
                      > was NO PART of your fine brain that did not think to
                      > post this EARLIER?

                      Well, you didn't ask. ;)

                      > I even looked at your website before I left to make
                      > sure I had your knot right! What about if you get your
                      > cute little video camera out and update your website?

                      Working on that... Maybe you should come hiking with me and I'll have a
                      better model for the videos.

                      > I had a lot of fun on the PCT section, showing off my
                      > hammock to weary thru-hikers. 80 % of them looked at
                      > it with envy. Marsanne

                      That means that 20% of the PCT hikers you met are blind or dumb?

                      Shane
                    • Shane Steinkamp
                      ... Watch it little boy. Don t make me come up there and spank you. ;) Shane
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 22, 2003
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                        > I cut out all messages, the title says it all. LOL

                        Watch it little boy. Don't make me come up there and spank you. ;)

                        Shane
                      • firefly
                        HIKE IN THIS HEAT?! You have free airplane tickets to go somewhere? I am going to have to move out of this sauna when the governor s term ends... Working on
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                          HIKE IN THIS HEAT?! You have free airplane tickets to go somewhere? I am going to have to move out of this sauna when the governor's term ends... 

                          Working on that...  Maybe you should come hiking with me and I'll have a
                          better model for the videos.


                          That means that 20% of the PCT hikers you met are blind or dumb?

                          I think they're just hyper-focused on making miles. That's the thing about thru-hiking, which I noticed....so many of them are in too much of a hurry to stop and savor any place. I could do a one or 2 month hike, but not FIVE MONTHS, at least, not in the Sierras. Maybe the AT.
                          Marsanne




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                        • Ed Speer
                          Very well done Shane! Thanks for sharing all this. Your links to other information are also very good and quite helpful. Yes, i would like to use this in the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                            Message
                            Very well done Shane!  Thanks for sharing all this.  Your links to other information are also very good and quite helpful. Yes, i would like to use this in the next Hammock Camping Newsletter--thanks again...Ed
                             
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Shane [mailto:shane@...]
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 10:37 AM
                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: Hammock Camping quick adjustment idea

                            > Well this weekend I tested out a new hanging method. I
                            > bought some 6' Kayak straps. They are made out of 1"
                            > webbing with aluminum fasteners. I tied these around
                            > the tree and used two small carabineers (gates opposite
                            > each other) to hook in a figure 8 knot from the
                            > hammock. After lounging in the hammock for a while the
                            > ropes stretched-as they always do-but this time I only
                            > needed to pull the straps and presto tight ropes again.
                            > Worked like a charm.

                            I've been doing something very similar for awhile.  It sure makes setup a
                            snap, doesn't it?

                            Here's my write-up on the subject.  (Note to ED: Feel free to use all or
                            part of this in the newsletter.)

                            I use 1" webbing and two carabineers rigged to let me set it up without
                            tying any knots.

                            There are actually two methods, one of which is shown here:

                            http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/journals/shane/images/020524/DSC021
                            04.jpg

                            or

                            http://tinyurl.com/bnnv


                            What you see in the picture are three pieces of webbing, two carabineers,
                            and the hammock.  On the right is the long piece of webbing - about 5' long
                            after the knots are tied.  Knots are tied like this double figure of eight,
                            pictured on this page:

                            http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

                            The length is to go around larger trees.  For smaller trees, wrap twice.
                            Clip carabineer through loops.  On the left side are actually two pieces of
                            webbing, 3' long after the knots are tied (as above).  One short piece can
                            be used around a small tree, or the two pieces can be looped together (as
                            they are here) to make a longer piece to go around a larger tree or to give
                            extra length (as they do here).  Clip carabineer through loops.  Unroll
                            hammock, clip hammock to carabineers, and you're done.

                            This system uses no knots, but has no adjustment.  You have to find trees
                            more or less the right distance apart - which isn't hard to do down here in
                            the south.  You could retie the loops and have all the adjustment you like,
                            I am just too damn lazy...  At the end of the day, I want to make camp NOW.
                            I want to make camp and be cooking my dinner in less than five minutes. With
                            this rig, setup is less than a minute.  The ridgeline can be strung and the
                            tarp and/or bug net put up or not depending on conditions.  I can stop and
                            be ready with a hot dinner in ten minutes - which is a tremendous plus
                            in the cold.  Camp chores are just that - chores - and I'd prefer to get on
                            doing other things, like dancing naked in the rain...

                            What I've come up with recently, is this:  You can adjust the tension
                            instantly with no fear of slippage.  I just worked this out for Bob with his
                            new Hennessy, since his knot skills aren't very good, and it works great.
                            Personally, I am lazy, and Tom's knot is fairly difficult to understand from
                            the illustration on the bag, so I wanted something different.

                            You will need:

                            Hammock w/ropes. (Any hammock will do.  Some hammocks don't have ropes, they
                            have loops, which will work just as well - just clip the 'carabineers in the
                            loops.)
                            2 Carabineers (you can find 35 gram careeners)
                            1" Webbing strap, 15 feet long.
                            1 tie down strap available from any auto parts store.

                            (We discarded the straps that came with the Hennessy because they were too
                            short (about 36").  We have BIG trees down here in the south, and we needed
                            something more substantial.)

                            Tie the carabineers to the hammock ropes as close to the hammock on the
                            ridge line as you can.  (If your hammock has loops instead of a rope, just
                            clip the carabineers to the loops.)  If you have a Hennessy, this means that
                            the carabineers can be no closer to the hammock than the maximum extension
                            of the canopy on the ridge line.  You will have a lot of excess rope.  If
                            you are REALLY brave,
                            you can cut the excess off - but DON'T do this until AFTER you have set the
                            hammock up and tensioned the tarp for the first time to make sure you have
                            enough distance between the carabineers.

                            Ok, now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, or the carabineers
                            clipped to the loops. Now get your webbing strap.  Cut it in half, then cut
                            14 inches off one piece.  You'll now have three pieces.  Singe all cut ends
                            with a cigarette lighter or other fire source so that the ends don't fray.
                            On the middle piece, tie loops in both ends using a double figure of eight
                            knot in the ends of the webbing strap.  In other words, fold 10 inches or so
                            of the strap together and tie an overhand knot.

                            http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

                            On the long piece, tie only one end with the double figure of eight loop,
                            and leave the other end untied.
                            The loops, when you are done, should be 3-4 inches.  If you have, or know
                            someone with, a saddle stitcher, you could stitch the loops instead of tying
                            the knots - but remember that your whole weight will be depending on those
                            stitches not to drop you on your butt at night...

                            Now you have the Carabineers tied to the hammock, and loops in your webbing.

                            Next we need a tie down strap, such as this:
                            http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=174529&BQ=jcw2

                            There are actually two types of tie down straps, available at any auto-parts
                            store.  Ratcheting and non-ratcheting.  I used the non-ratcheting type,
                            because they are lighter.  Just be sure you buy the heavy duty type and not
                            the one that's only rated for about 300 pounds.  The first thing you notice
                            about tie down straps is that they are extremely heavy.  This is because of
                            the steel S hooks on each end.  Discard EVERYTHING except the tensioning
                            device.  We used the webbing that came with the tie down strap at first, but
                            then it broke.  It
                            was very thin and flimsy...  The tensioning device are very light, as you
                            will notice.  (3-4 ounces?)  Take the 14" piece of webbing and pass it
                            around the back bar (non-adjusting side) of the tensioning device, then tie
                            a water knot to make a loop.

                            http://brmrg.med.virginia.edu/knots/water.html

                            This loop is where you will clip one of the carabineers.  Feed the untied
                            end of the long piece of webbing into the tensioner.

                            Now you have the carabineers tied to the hammock, a long piece of webbing
                            with loops, a tensioning device with a loop on the back side, and a long
                            piece of webbing fed into the tensioner with a loop on the far end.

                            Now you can set up that hammock in less than 60 seconds and tie no knots.
                            Find 2 trees of an appropriate diameter about 15 feet or so apart.

                            Ready?  GO!

                            Unroll hammock between trees.  Wrap webbing with two loops around tree #1 as
                            many times as you can and still clip the carabineer between the two loops.
                            Clip carabineer #1 to loops.  Move to tree #2.  Pass long webbing strap
                            w/loop end around tree.  Pass tensioning device through loop.  Pull until
                            the large lasso loop you have just made pulls tight to the tree.  Clip
                            carabineer #2 to webbing loop on back of tensioning device.  Grasp loose end
                            of webbing in tensioning device and pull tight.

                            Voila! Done with no knots tied.  If the hammock stretches a little, and
                            there is some slack in your ridgeline, simply grasp the loose end of the
                            webbing in the tensioner and pull it tight.  If you have used the ratcheting
                            type of tensioner, which is heavier, just crank it tight.  No need to untie
                            knots and retie.  Just remember not to pull it TOO tight.  You can break the
                            ridgeline in a Hennessy like this.  Most hammocks sleep better with a little
                            slack.

                            To break it down, depress the lever on the tensioning device, release some
                            slack, and then unclip the carabineers.  If you wind up between two trees
                            too far apart, tie a figure of eight loop on the end of the Hammock rope,
                            pass that through the webbing loops, then clip the carabineer to the rope
                            loop.  If you wind up between two trees that are WAY too far apart, and have
                            no other options, you can untie and retie one or both of the carabineers,
                            but with enough webbing in the tensioner (10' or so) you won't have any
                            problems.  Of course, if you have cut the excess rope off, you won't have
                            either of those two options.  You can use shorter pieces of webbing if the
                            trees where you hike are small, or if you are willing to find smaller trees
                            the right distance apart.

                            I promise to have pictures of all of this soon...

                            Shane



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                          • Risk
                            ... trees ... here in ... you like, ... camp NOW. ... minutes. With ... I ve got to murmur a little at bro Shane s solution here. We have a lot of trees
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                              Shane wrote:

                              > This system uses no knots, but has no adjustment. You have to find
                              trees
                              > more or less the right distance apart - which isn't hard to do down
                              here in
                              > the south. You could retie the loops and have all the adjustment
                              you like,
                              > I am just too damn lazy... At the end of the day, I want to make
                              camp NOW.
                              > I want to make camp and be cooking my dinner in less than five
                              minutes. With
                              > this rig, setup is less than a minute.

                              I've got to murmur a little at bro Shane's solution here. We have a
                              lot of trees around here too, but finding a pair exactly the right
                              distance apart for a system with no adjustment would take me more
                              than a minute or two. (This is especially true when I add the
                              requirement that I have room to pitch the tarp without a tree
                              sticking up through the middle of it.)

                              I find it much faster to find a pair of trees about the right
                              distance apart (4 to 5 steps) and tie the hammock up to them at just
                              the right tension. Tying the 4 wrap knot twice takes me 30 seconds
                              to a minute for each knot.

                              End result is that I prefer the custom tied hammock. I may be a
                              little more particular about how tight the hammock is than Shane.
                              Anyway, I thought it worthwhile to add this counterpoint to Shane's
                              most excellent post.

                              Oh, and I get to skimp on the weight of the two carabiners. "An
                              ounce here and and ounce there and before long we are talking real
                              weight."

                              Risk
                            • Shane
                              ... No problem. ... A loop in each end. ... I am working on a video. Ed beat me to the book. ... Look at the link. What I m calling a figure of eight is a
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                > I have a couple of questions on the setup.

                                No problem.

                                > > What you see in the picture are three pieces of
                                > > webbing, two carabineers, and the hammock. On the
                                > > right is the long piece of webbing - about 5' long
                                > > after the knots are tied. Knots are tied like this
                                > > double figure of eight,
                                >
                                > Is this to create a continuous loop of webbing or to tie a
                                > loop int eh webbing?

                                A loop in each end.

                                > Brilliant, just brilliant! Have you ever considered
                                > writing a book or creating an instruction video for
                                > hammocking? If not, you should.

                                I am working on a video. Ed beat me to the book.

                                > I'm not following this very well, I guess I need visuals.
                                > Two figure eights is not one water knot.
                                >
                                > > http://www.realknots.com/knots/sloops.htm

                                Look at the link. What I'm calling a figure of eight is a loop in the end.
                                It's actually a kind of water knot. I am *NOT* however a knot expert or
                                anything, so I could be screwing up the names.

                                > Yikes! I guess I never really thought about breaking the
                                > ridge line. Has anybody ever broked one by tightening by
                                > hand? I don't think I'm stong enough to do so.

                                It has been done.

                                > Ah, visuals. I need pictures or a demonstration for this
                                > type of thing.

                                Absolutely. It's complicated to explain, but so simple with pictures...

                                > Thanks for sharing the great idea.

                                Welcome.

                                Shane
                              • Shane
                                ... Well, what I was thinking was to throw a couple of inner tubes in the back of the pickup truck and drive down to Janice Landing in Black Creek Wilderness
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                  > HIKE IN THIS HEAT?! You have free airplane tickets to go
                                  > somewhere? I am going to have to move out of this sauna
                                  > when the governor's term ends...

                                  Well, what I was thinking was to throw a couple of inner tubes in the back
                                  of the pickup truck and drive down to Janice Landing in Black Creek
                                  Wilderness in Mississippi. Then I'll put the pack in a trash bag, put that
                                  in an inner tube, get in an inner tube myself, open my umbrella, and drift
                                  lazily down the river about 12 miles to Farley Bridge. A nice cool day.
                                  Then I'll stash the 'tubes, hike in a mile or so, and camp. The next day
                                  I'll hike halfway back up - 5 or 6 miles - and camp. That'll only take the
                                  morning, so it'll be a nice camp by the river. Swimming, napping, video
                                  making, and general laziness will prevail. The next day takes me back up to
                                  the truck, which I drive back around to pickup the 'tubes.

                                  It's important to remember that BACKPACKING does NOT necessarily mean
                                  WALKING. I can do 12 miles in 100 steps by floating in the cool river most
                                  of the way.

                                  Shane
                                • ciyd01
                                  ... Then the figure 8 would be more appropriate for creating a loop on each end. For those who ve never done this, neatness counts - keep the webbing flat,
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" <shane@t...> wrote:
                                    > > Is this to create a continuous loop of webbing or to tie a
                                    > > loop int eh webbing?
                                    >
                                    > A loop in each end.

                                    Then the figure 8 would be more appropriate for creating a loop on
                                    each end. For those who've never done this, neatness counts - keep
                                    the webbing flat, don't let it twist on itself and the knot will be
                                    strong and easy to untie.

                                    I've been thinking about this for the last 3 weeks. We have the same
                                    problem you do - very big trees. I have a 10 foot long piece of
                                    tubular webbing and 2 carabiners just in case. I had planned on
                                    tying the webbing as a sling around the tree using one water knot and
                                    feeding the HH cord through a carabiner so that I don't have any
                                    spectra-on-nylon friction that might cut through or weaken the
                                    webbing. If the other tree proves too big for one tree hugger, I
                                    will attach the two via loops on each end or the second 'biner and
                                    then use this as one really long tree hugger. While I'm hiking, I'm
                                    using the webbing and one or two 'biners as a belt from which I hang
                                    my camera bag and a very tiny ditty bag with lip balm and bug dope,
                                    etc in. This keeps the weight out of the pack and gives me a nice
                                    belt (everything has more than one use, right?) I suppose I may have
                                    to take tree sap into account. Hmm, have to figure that out. I'll
                                    post how well this works after I have more field experience with the
                                    setup.

                                    As an extra safety precaution because I'm a bit absent minded, I
                                    bought black webbing since my climbing gear rack includes no black
                                    and I will not run the risk of accidentally using my hammock webbing
                                    for climbing. I also hit the biners with some safety orange paint so
                                    I don't mix those either. I'm concerned that my climbing webbing not
                                    be compromised by tree sap, bits of dirt, abrasion and that
                                    the 'biners I'm climbing on haven't developed any micro cracks from
                                    being dropped on the ground. Maybe I'm overly conservative, but I'm
                                    still alive!

                                    > I am working on a video. Ed beat me to the book.

                                    Excellent.

                                    > Look at the link. What I'm calling a figure of eight is a loop in
                                    the end.
                                    > It's actually a kind of water knot. I am *NOT* however a knot
                                    expert or
                                    > anything, so I could be screwing up the names.

                                    Nope, you are describing the figure 8. The water not is just like
                                    the first overhand you use when tying your shoes. BTW, the figure 8
                                    is one of my favorite knots - easy to tie once you've seen it done
                                    (visuals!) and stong.

                                    I'll be taking the hammock out this weekend with a bunch of ground
                                    sleepers. They will be toting their 7 lb tents and sleeping on the
                                    hard ground, tossing and turning and trying to get comfortable while
                                    I, on the other hand, will be sleeping like a babe cradled in its
                                    mother's arms. Maybe I'll make some converts.

                                    ciyd
                                  • Mark Bayern
                                    ... Turns out tents can also be tree hangers. Check out http://trease.biz At 10+ lbs for a one-person unit, I m not sure I see why anyone would use this, but
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                      >I'll be taking the hammock out this weekend with a bunch of ground
                                      >sleepers. They will be toting their 7 lb tents and sleeping on the
                                      >hard ground, tossing and turning and trying to get comfortable while
                                      >I, on the other hand, will be sleeping like a babe cradled in its
                                      >mother's arms. Maybe I'll make some converts.

                                      Turns out tents can also be tree hangers. Check out http://trease.biz

                                      At 10+ lbs for a one-person unit, I'm not sure I see why anyone would use
                                      this, but it does exist.

                                      Mark
                                    • uluheman
                                      I ve wanted to experiment with a three-point suspension for years; I have a file full of drawings. Now I know that it can be done because the Trease people
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                        I've wanted to experiment with a three-point suspension for years; I
                                        have a file full of drawings. Now I know that it can be done because
                                        the Trease people have done it already.

                                        My goal was to see if it would be possible to make a flat enough
                                        surface on which two people could be comfortable, without the
                                        complications of the two bodies being forced against one another by
                                        gravity, as happens in a Mayan-style hammock. I guess it *is*
                                        possible, judging from the Trease models.

                                        I'm not fond of the tent part of it, of course. A triangular,
                                        reasonably flat surface can be tarped and netted more elegantly.

                                        I wonder what type of fabric would be required to achieve the tension
                                        of the Tease floor? 1.9 oz nylon is probably too light. Double it?
                                        And what about the tension in the cords? Would it have to be greater
                                        than for a Hennessy Hammock?

                                        Does anyone else interested in two-person hammocks for overnight
                                        sleeping (we've already had conversations about other, less lengthy
                                        but more stimulating uses) have any comments about their experiences
                                        designing or using any hammocks or Trease-like devices?

                                        Brandon in Honolulu


                                        > Turns out tents can also be tree hangers. Check out
                                        http://trease.biz
                                        >
                                        > At 10+ lbs for a one-person unit, I'm not sure I see why anyone
                                        would use
                                        > this, but it does exist.
                                        >
                                        > Mark
                                      • Mark Bayern
                                        ... Sounds like you have a choice. Note the text that is included in the specs of the two-person model: The floor may be used as one area, or with the tug of
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                          >My goal was to see if it would be possible to make a flat enough
                                          >surface on which two people could be comfortable, without the
                                          >complications of the two bodies being forced against one another by
                                          >gravity, as happens in a Mayan-style hammock. I guess it *is*
                                          >possible, judging from the Trease models.

                                          Sounds like you have a choice. Note the text that is included in the specs
                                          of the two-person model: "The floor may be used as one area, or with the
                                          tug of a tensioning strap, may be divided into two berths." So the choices
                                          are, 1) a single large area with 'togetherness' for the two occupants, or
                                          2) two separate sleeping areas.

                                          I'm very happy with my hammock. Their suspension straps and lines probably
                                          weigh as much as my total hammock system. TEN pounds, 5 oz for a one
                                          person? ouch!
                                        • Ed Speer
                                          Thanks for the link Mark--the Trease must be new. sure gives one some new ideas....Ed ... From: Mark Bayern [mailto:mark@mlb.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 23,
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                            Message
                                             
                                            Thanks for the link Mark--the Trease must be new.  sure gives one some new ideas....Ed
                                             
                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Mark Bayern [mailto:mark@...]
                                            Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:47 PM
                                            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Heavyweight Tents: (was: Re: Hammock Camping quick adjustment idea


                                            >I'll be taking the hammock out this weekend with a bunch of ground
                                            >sleepers.  They will be toting their 7 lb tents and sleeping on the
                                            >hard ground, tossing and turning and trying to get comfortable while
                                            >I, on the other hand, will be sleeping like a babe cradled in its
                                            >mother's arms.  Maybe I'll make some converts.

                                            Turns out tents can also be tree hangers.  Check out http://trease.biz

                                            At 10+ lbs for a one-person unit, I'm not sure I see why anyone would use
                                            this, but it does exist.

                                            Mark



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                                          • firefly
                                            NIce idea, but I don t camp out down here between May and October. I need cool-ish weather to sleep. AC bill always very high. I do like the tubing idea,
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jul 23, 2003
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                                              NIce idea, but I don't camp out down here between May and October. I need cool-ish weather to sleep. AC bill always very high. I do like the tubing idea, though. But not sweltering in the Deep South woods in July/August.  I do like your values, though. <G> Marsanne
                                              .

                                              Well, what I was thinking was to throw a couple of inner tubes in the back
                                              of the pickup truck and drive down to Janice Landing in Black Creek
                                              Wilderness in Mississippi.  Then I'll put the pack in a trash bag, put that
                                              in an inner tube, get in an inner tube myself, open my umbrella, and drift
                                              lazily down the river about 12 miles to Farley Bridge.  A nice cool day.
                                              Then I'll stash the 'tubes, hike in a mile or so, and camp.  The next day
                                              I'll hike halfway back up - 5 or 6 miles - and camp.  That'll only take the
                                              morning, so it'll be a nice camp by the river.  Swimming, napping, video
                                              making, and general laziness will prevail.  The next day takes me back up to
                                              the truck, which I drive back around to pickup the 'tubes.

                                              It's important to remember that BACKPACKING does NOT necessarily mean
                                              WALKING.  I can do 12 miles in 100 steps by floating in the cool river most
                                              of the way.

                                              Shane



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                                            • Shane Steinkamp
                                              ... Thank you, sir - and you are very welcome. Shane
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jul 24, 2003
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                                                > Very well done Shane! Thanks for sharing all this. Your
                                                > links to other information are also very good and quite
                                                > helpful. Yes, i would like to use this in the next Hammock
                                                > Camping Newsletter--thanks again...Ed

                                                Thank you, sir - and you are very welcome.

                                                Shane
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