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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Shelter, Individual, Suspended

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  • HAROLD STEELE
    Actually this isn t a new idea. Check out the site for the Clark Jungle Hammocks. http://www.junglehammock.com Harold Steele ________________________________
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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      Actually this isn't a new idea.

      Check out the site for the Clark Jungle Hammocks.

      http://www.junglehammock.com

      Harold Steele




      ________________________________
      From: Dennis <k1ypp@...>
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 7:50:04 AM
      Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Shelter, Individual, Suspended

       
      Advantages:

      * Easily used as a ground tent if not trees available.
      * More "stable" than a two-point support hammock, especially in high
      winds.
      * More storage space.
      * Tarp not needed (if door flap seals well).
      * If wide enough, two might be able to share it.

      Disadvantages:

      * Requires very large trees, or multiple trees at each end.
      * Upper suspension ropes will creep down tree unless held in place
      with screw or nail.
      * No mosquito protection when flap is open.
      * Large number of straps may offset any weight advantage of missing
      tarp.
      * Straps would have to be pulled very tightly to keep things level
      (hence large trees).
      * With no tarp, the material will have to be very water resistant and
      drain well. Any water "pooling" would find its way in.
      It has possibilities, but would need some serious field testing.

      Dennis "K1" Blanchard

      Author of: Three Hundred Zeroes: <http://tinyurl.com/2f74mdt> Lessons
      of the Heart on the Appalachian Trail

      A non-fiction adventure travel story on the Appalachian Trail

      Finalist in the 2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards Contest

      Available on Amazon.com, <http://tinyurl.com/248ymjg> Kindle
      <http://tinyurl.com/2cvecyg> and the CreateSpace eStore
      <https://www.createspace.com/3428889> .

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Marcel Kuemmet <kuemmet@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I worked on this design years ago. I just checking around to see if
      > there would be any or much interest in a product like this. I own the
      > design. I got the idea just after my service with the US Army's1st
      > Ranger Bn.
      > This is designed for one soldier. As the majority of body heat is
      lost
      > to the earthimage
      >
      <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldXers0pI/AAAAAAAAEBE/xWxvRzXik5c/s1600-h/image%5B15%5D.png>

      > , this ready made “Hooch” will provide a warm place for
      the soldier to
      > rest.
      >
      > image
      >
      <http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldf1t0s8I/AAAAAAAAEBM/NKUeSMBUd3Q/s1600-h/image%5B20%5D.png>

      >
      >
      > image
      >
      <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKlcTaq0_gI/AAAAAAAAEA4/jS7jMCCskoI/s1600-h/image%5B2%5D.png>

      >
      >
      > image
      >
      <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldn1hKbSI/AAAAAAAAEBU/h7Ie27bG9Io/s1600-h/image%5B5%5D.png>

      >
      >
      > image
      >
      <http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldzOwGQ4I/AAAAAAAAEBc/quiF2nEsBCc/s1600-h/image%5B8%5D.png>

      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Posted By Marcel Kuemmet to Adventure Technologies
      >
      <http://adventuretechnologies.blogspot.com/2010/10/shelter-individual-suspended.html>

      > at 10/03/2010 11:45:00 PM
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mark Bayern
      ... winds. More stable must mean more likely to flip than an properly hung two-point hammock. ... with screw or nail. This seems like it should a show
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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        >>"* More "stable" than a two-point support hammock, especially in high
        winds.

        More "stable" must mean more likely to flip than an properly hung two-point
        hammock.

        >>"Upper suspension ropes will creep down tree unless held in place
        with screw or nail.

        This seems like it should a show stopper for most hammock hangers. One big
        advantage of hanging is the reduced damage to the campsite. Nails or screws
        negate that advantage.








        On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Dennis <k1ypp@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Advantages:
        >
        > * Easily used as a ground tent if not trees available.
        > * More "stable" than a two-point support hammock, especially in high
        > winds.
        > * More storage space.
        > * Tarp not needed (if door flap seals well).
        > * If wide enough, two might be able to share it.
        >
        > Disadvantages:
        >
        > * Requires very large trees, or multiple trees at each end.
        > * Upper suspension ropes will creep down tree unless held in place
        > with screw or nail.
        > * No mosquito protection when flap is open.
        > * Large number of straps may offset any weight advantage of missing
        > tarp.
        > * Straps would have to be pulled very tightly to keep things level
        > (hence large trees).
        > * With no tarp, the material will have to be very water resistant and
        > drain well. Any water "pooling" would find its way in.
        > It has possibilities, but would need some serious field testing.
        >
        > Dennis "K1" Blanchard
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • punky
        What are you insulating it with to keep the sleeper from losing heat to the air? What if it rains? How does it work in a strong wind?
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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          What are you insulating it with to keep the sleeper from losing heat to the air? What if it rains? How does it work in a strong wind?

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Marcel Kuemmet <kuemmet@...> wrote:
          >
          > I worked on this design years ago. I just checking around to see if
          > there would be any or much interest in a product like this. I own the
          > design. I got the idea just after my service with the US Army's1st
          > Ranger Bn.
        • Marcel Kuemmet
          Thanks all ... I have made and tested several versions (this was in the mid to late 80 s), cost me a lot of money, and went no where. I think the design sheets
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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            Thanks all ...
            I have made and tested several versions (this was in the mid to late
            80's), cost me a lot of money, and went no where.
            I think the design sheets and the paperwork from the lawyer states 1989.
            I advertised in Soldier of Fortune Magazine (I used a pro ad agency for
            the copy), but they blew it on the graphics and one could not actually
            see the photos in the ad as it was all washed out. I wasn't going to
            hand them another 3G for a second try and they wouldn't deal or compromise.
            That is when I basically pulled the pin.
            I had this prototype (the one in the photos, one of three I made),
            tested it while training (the kids loved it, so did the old infantry types).
            I used to run small recon type training patrols with it (so I could be
            comfy and the cadets could suffer), but a lot of the general infantry
            and field types seemed really interested. I just couldn't get enough
            capitol up front to make a whole bunch. To strike even in those days, I
            would have had to make 500 units and charge about $120 a piece ... just
            to get my money back ... if I sold all of them. A non starter.
            It was sent to Aberdeen in 1999, and incinerated there in early 2001. I
            was so informed ... that It was that ... or give up the rights to one of
            the new "established" contractors to make for the Army. I am not sure,
            but I heard the "Camelback" guy,or the folks who came up with the idea,
            had the same problem. Folks in the line units bought their own. The
            vests had capacity for them, but the units themselves had to be
            purchased ... /if I understand correctly/.
            Apparently the policy quietly changed in 2001, then changed back again
            in 2008, so I was thinking about giving another try.
            It does have a commercial name, that it was advertised under back in
            1990. For this posting, I used the proposed Mil designation.
            There are a ton of US Govt specs I could go over, but basically it is
            made with off the shelf materials (every item needed has a USG stock
            number) and meets US Army safety standards and specifications (it gets
            complicated). It is built for speed (A trained soldier can set up in
            190 seconds, tear down and pack in 120 seconds), adaptability, and
            stealth (IR treated materials, can be deployed on a ridge, cliff, etc).
            It was envisioned as a way to retain body heat with minimal weight of
            gear. It requires 30% of capacity of the standard medium Alice pack.
            It was meant to be used with a poncho liner, no sleeping bag (we never
            used them, too heavy and bulky for our type of stuff, especially if we
            have to jump in).
            It was also to considered a replacement/update to the standard Jungle
            hammock. We got issued those in the 1st bat (Army Ranger Bn) and never
            used them due to their poor design and construction (along with 60% of
            the rest of the stuff the Army required us to be issued but the Ranger
            Bn never uses,or allows to be used). We used two ropes with a net and a
            poncho.
            I am still not sure what to do here ... but ... Thanks hey ... feel free
            to contact me if you have any suggestions and thanks again.




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Cara Lin Bridgman
            Looking at the website and the original announcement, I see a real
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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              Looking at the website
              <http://adventuretechnologies.blogspot.com/2010/10/shelter-individual-suspended.html>
              and the original announcement, I see a real problem with this statement:
              "As the majority of body heat is lost to the earth, this ready made
              “Houch” will provide a warm place for the soldier to rest."

              Anyone who has spent any time in a hammock knows that we lose body heat
              faster to convection from air than to the ground. This is why there is
              so much discussion in all the hammock forums and groups about ways to
              keep warm when hanging: underquilts, mats, mylar, down-filled hammocks,
              etc. etc. Although many hammock shelters can be lighter and are
              certainly more comfortable than most tents, it is when the temperatures
              start to drop and the winds start to pick up that hammock pack weight
              starts to increase.

              CL
            • Marcel Kuemmet
              Interesting ... thanks. I think back then we based it on some Army study, and we all know how good those could be back then. I know that with the amount of
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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                Interesting ... thanks. I think back then we based it on some Army
                study, and we all know how good those could be back then.
                I know that with the amount of time I spent sleeping on grass, dirt,
                rocks, tarmacs, hanger floors, parachutes (the absolute best) and steel
                (think top of a M1913), this would have been a much more comfortable
                option than what was available then ... but what about now.
                When I used it in winter, it seemed to me (and this is just how body
                reacts to sleeping on snow covered ground) that I was much warmer and
                better rested with it. I did use a standard intermediate sleeping bag
                then. The Bag was twice the size of the shelter and took up almost the
                rest of my Alice pack. I didn't have to worry about jumping
                (parachuting) it in at that time, so most of the rest of the load was
                ammo, water, food and maybe a radio (probably a prc177).
                I am thinking as well that maybe the 1000 denier cordora combined with
                the sleeping bag may have been why it didn't seem much of an issue. Plus
                I always carry a poncho line as well, and used that as well. Remember,
                this is Military grade stuff here. It is expensive and very durable,
                but I would think there may be modern fabrics and materials I am not
                aware of that may do a better job, but I haven't found anything like
                that yet.
                Just simple 40 or 60 denier fabric (like a Wal Mart tent) would not be
                strong enough for this application, and would never fly USA standards
                and USG specs.

                On 10/5/2010 11:09 PM, Cara Lin Bridgman wrote:
                >
                > Looking at the website
                > <http://adventuretechnologies.blogspot.com/2010/10/shelter-individual-suspended.html>
                >
                > and the original announcement, I see a real problem with this statement:
                > "As the majority of body heat is lost to the earth, this ready made
                > “Houch” will provide a warm place for the soldier to rest."
                >
                > Anyone who has spent any time in a hammock knows that we lose body heat
                > faster to convection from air than to the ground. This is why there is
                > so much discussion in all the hammock forums and groups about ways to
                > keep warm when hanging: underquilts, mats, mylar, down-filled hammocks,
                > etc. etc. Although many hammock shelters can be lighter and are
                > certainly more comfortable than most tents, it is when the temperatures
                > start to drop and the winds start to pick up that hammock pack weight
                > starts to increase.
                >
                > CL
                >
                >

                --


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Marcel Kuemmet
                Hey all, thanks for all the input. I still don t know what to do. No money. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 5, 2010
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                  Hey all, thanks for all the input.
                  I still don't know what to do. No money.


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rogene Calkins
                  There is a similar system made by in Europe that has pyramid shaped end for stowing gear. I m not sure if I can find the url for this and it s not camouflage
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 8, 2010
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                    There is a similar system made by in Europe that has pyramid shaped end for
                    stowing gear.
                    I'm not sure if I can find the url for this and it's not camouflage etc.
                    Rogene.
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Marcel Kuemmet" <kuemmet@...>
                    To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 4:49 PM
                    Subject: [Hammock Camping] Shelter, Individual, Suspended


                    I worked on this design years ago. I just checking around to see if
                    there would be any or much interest in a product like this. I own the
                    design. I got the idea just after my service with the US Army's1st
                    Ranger Bn.
                    This is designed for one soldier. As the majority of body heat is lost
                    to the earthimage
                    <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldXers0pI/AAAAAAAAEBE/xWxvRzXik5c/s1600-h/image%5B15%5D.png>
                    , this ready made “Hooch” will provide a warm place for the soldier to
                    rest.

                    image
                    <http://lh5.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldf1t0s8I/AAAAAAAAEBM/NKUeSMBUd3Q/s1600-h/image%5B20%5D.png>


                    image
                    <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKlcTaq0_gI/AAAAAAAAEA4/jS7jMCCskoI/s1600-h/image%5B2%5D.png>


                    image
                    <http://lh3.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldn1hKbSI/AAAAAAAAEBU/h7Ie27bG9Io/s1600-h/image%5B5%5D.png>


                    image
                    <http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xXGbVuJlSk8/TKldzOwGQ4I/AAAAAAAAEBc/quiF2nEsBCc/s1600-h/image%5B8%5D.png>



                    --
                    Posted By Marcel Kuemmet to Adventure Technologies
                    <http://adventuretechnologies.blogspot.com/2010/10/shelter-individual-suspended.html>
                    at 10/03/2010 11:45:00 PM


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

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                  • Mak
                    ... was just under 5 Lbs including the dowels and all support straps and Para cord. If I made any more, I would use 200 Denier Cordura. It would be much more
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 4, 2011
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                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Michael Lindroos <lindrom@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > What do you think the weight would be? How about pack size?
                      >
                      > The lightweight version, seen here, has a 90 denier ripstop upper. It
                      was just under 5 Lbs including the dowels and all support straps and
                      Para cord. If I made any more, I would use 200 Denier Cordura. It
                      would be much more durable, but probably bring the weight to about 6
                      Lbs, which may be too heavy for current Mil Specs. There may be a new-er
                      high tech fabric now that could do the job with less weight.
                      >
                      > [Shelter, Susbended, Individual Kuemmet]
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Marcel Kuemmet kuemmet@...
                      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 3:49:18 PM
                      > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Shelter, Individual, Suspended
                      >
                      >
                      > I worked on this design years ago. I just checking around to see if
                      > there would be any or much interest in a product like this. I own the
                      > design. I got the idea just after my service with the US Army's1st
                      > Ranger Bn.
                      > This is designed for one soldier



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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