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RE: Hammock Camping Three Digests Later...

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  • Ed Speer
    Ok Miguel, I thought about your question, but didn t really have a good answer. I ve also seen other hammocks advertized as using strong parachute
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
      Message
      Ok Miguel, I thought about your question, but didn't really have a good answer.  I've also seen other hammocks advertized as using 'strong' parachute nylon/silk fabric, but I don't know if this is stronger than 1.9  ripstop; it may actually be less strong.  We know that hammocks made from 1.1 ripstop do not have a long life (Hennessey makes them for one time use only--like an eco challenge race).  I just don't know what parachute silk really is--I suspect various fabrics have been used for parachutes over time--how they compare with the relatively new 1.9 & 1.1 ripstop nylon is unknown.  I also suspect some advertizers are using the catch words "parachute silk/nylon" incorrectly. 
       
      Many fabrics are suitable for hammocks. Some nylon taffetas would work quite well.  These are not ripstop, but some are suitably strong enough.  Since taffeta is generally much less expensive than ripstop, some manufacturers use it instead  and call it "parachute nylon" to impress potential customers. 
       
      However, I've still not found anything lighter AND stronger than ripstop nylon for any given weight/square yard.  I have researched real silk as a possible candidate, but the cost prohibits prototype testing.  Are parachutes made with real silk?---I doubt it.
       
      Regarding straps instead of spectra rope w/ webbing tree straps:  I've found full straps to be less harmful to trees and less hassel  to use. Yes they weigh more, so I don't use them without good reason....Ed
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Miguel Arboleda [mailto:butuki@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:30 PM
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Hammock Camping Three Digests Later...

      Hmmm, I posted these questions three days ago and not a single response. Sort of makes a body feel as if it were "left hanging"...

      Message: 5
      Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:43:42 +0900
      From: Miguel Arboleda < butuki@... >
      Subject: Parachute Silk

      Now that I've lurked long enough and read enough posts to whet my
      appetite, I want to sit down and make one of these hammocks Ed has
      illustrated so well in his book. I'm not sure if the seemingly
      "squeezed" configuration will appease this normally claustrophobic me
      as much as the Hennessy I own does, but it's worth a try.

      I'm somewhat curious as to materials, though. In his book, Ed specifies
      1.9 oz. ripstop nylon, and yet I have seen quite a number of commercial
      camping hammocks ( ie: http://www.paradisehammocks.co.uk/ ) which use
      1.1 oz parachute silk. The parachute silk I supposed to be incredibly
      strong and tear resistant, and even strong in UV light. I realize that
      Ed warns against 1.1 oz. nylon, but would parachute silk be considered
      the same? Anyone have experience with this? If it is strong enough,
      wouldn't the lighter weight be worth it?

      Also, may I ask why polypropylene straps are used instead of spectra
      rope slung through webbing, like the Hennessy?

      I've been rarin' to get out into the mountains here in Japan with a
      hammock, but what with the monsoon deluges lately, my bad experiences
      with a cold back and shoulders in the Hennessy (3 trips last year), and
      doubts about my sewing abilities (but I'm going to learn!) I haven't
      yet gotten up the resources to make hammock camping a reality this
      year. The high mountains in Japan are merciless with wind, and I'm
      somewhat reluctant to rely on a hammock in the alpine regions, up at
      10,000 feet, still. There are few trees up there... I may just stay
      with my GoLite Hex 3 tipi for now, unless I can find a more aerodynamic
      solution.

      Any thoughts?

      Cheers,
      miguel

      • ~
      miguel arboleda
      s t u d i o b u t u k i
      _______________
      sampo@...
      Laughing Knees Blog- http://www.butuki.com/

      eyes to see, hands to touch, legs to walk, and a mind under the open sky
    • colonelcorn76
      ... spectra ... Ed can probably fill in the answers for you but one of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is that I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Arboleda <butuki@g...>
        wrote:
        > > Also, may I ask why polypropylene straps are used instead of
        spectra
        > > rope slung through webbing, like the Hennessy?

        Ed can probably fill in the answers for you but one of the problems
        I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is
        that I can't know for sure what the quality/strength of the webbing
        is. It's not typically something printed anywhere. Spectra and Pulse
        line is made to a standard that is documented with the spool so I'm
        much more comfortable with trusting I won't be ending up with my
        butt on the ground (I broke my tailbone once and don't want to do
        that again).

        Jim
      • Risk
        Jim wrote: One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is that I can t know for sure what the strength of the webbing
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
          Jim wrote:

          One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
          homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
          the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.

          I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how strong
          it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
          would say it is not strong enough.

          Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff. Once you find a source
          that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while.

          Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
          and your friend sit on it. This is a rather standard engineering
          method of stressing something to twice its normal load. If you are
          concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
          during the test. Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but with
          a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap. I
          have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
          fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
          Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
          destructive... the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
          enough for operational use.

          So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.

          BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
          tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well. Here
          you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close to
          breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does wonders
          to increase your faith in the product.

          Rick
        • Ed Speer
          Jim, Rick Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will probably be the weak
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 2, 2003
            Message
            Jim, Rick  Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will probably be the weak point.  I've had no problem using 4 heavy bar tacks in a 4" length, but the quality of the bar tacks & the thread is critical.  Weak bar tacks can easily fail, one at a time.  A published rope climbing expert has recently told me that 4-7 well made bar tacks are standard on climbing harnesses.  Sewing bar tacks too heavy, or with too many needle holes, can also damage and weaken the webbing--use a round point needle when possible.  Otherwise, sew up to 7 bar tacks--if they fail, they may do so slowly enought for you to react in time.  Inspect the stichting often!    ...Ed
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Risk [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:34 PM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Three Digests Later...

            Jim wrote:

            One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
            homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
            the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.

            I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how strong
            it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
            would say it is not strong enough. 

            Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff.  Once you find a source
            that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while. 

            Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
            and your friend sit on it.  This is a rather standard engineering
            method of stressing something to twice its normal load.  If you are
            concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
            during the test.  Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but with
            a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap.   I
            have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
            fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
            Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
            destructive...  the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
            enough for operational use.

            So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.

            BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
            tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well.  Here
            you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close to
            breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does wonders
            to increase your faith in the product. 

            Rick



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          • Risk
            Hi Ed, Yep, that is the reason I tested my hammock with the weight of the two of us as well. I use three bar tacks presently, but I am trying to make it
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 2, 2003
              Hi Ed,

              Yep, that is the reason I tested my hammock with the weight of the
              two of us as well. I use three bar tacks presently, but I am trying
              to make it strong enough to hold about 600 pounds... unlike in my
              climbing days when I would not have been satisfied with a load
              strength of under 3000-6000 pounds. It is amazing how much pull you
              can get in a fall.

              If anyone wants to put together a hammock that works perfectly well
              for two so you can do tests on webbing, just use two layers of 1.9
              ripstop. It works very nicely.

              Rick

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
              > Jim, Rick Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching
              > holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will
              > probably be the weak point. I've had no problem using 4 heavy bar
              tacks
              > in a 4" length, but the quality of the bar tacks & the thread is
              > critical. Weak bar tacks can easily fail, one at a time. A
              published
              > rope climbing expert has recently told me that 4-7 well made bar
              tacks
              > are standard on climbing harnesses. Sewing bar tacks too heavy, or
              with
              > too many needle holes, can also damage and weaken the webbing--use a
              > round point needle when possible. Otherwise, sew up to 7 bar tacks-
              -if
              > they fail, they may do so slowly enought for you to react in time.
              > Inspect the stichting often! ...Ed
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Risk [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:34 PM
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Three Digests Later...
              >
              >
              > Jim wrote:
              >
              > One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
              > homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
              > the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.
              >
              > I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how
              strong
              > it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
              > would say it is not strong enough.
              >
              > Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff. Once you find a source
              > that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while.
              >
              > Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
              > and your friend sit on it. This is a rather standard engineering
              > method of stressing something to twice its normal load. If you are
              > concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
              > during the test. Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but
              with
              > a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap. I
              > have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
              > fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
              > Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
              > destructive... the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
              > enough for operational use.
              >
              > So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.
              >
              > BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
              > tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well. Here
              > you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close
              to
              > breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does
              wonders
              > to increase your faith in the product.
              >
              > Rick
              >
              >
              >
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