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Three Digests Later...

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  • Miguel Arboleda
    Hmmm, I posted these questions three days ago and not a single response. Sort of makes a body feel as if it were left hanging ... ... • ~ miguel arboleda s
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Hmmm, I posted these questions three days ago and not a single
      response. Sort of makes a body feel as if it were "left hanging"...

      > Message: 5
      > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:43:42 +0900
      > From: Miguel Arboleda <butuki@...>
      > Subject: Parachute Silk
      >
      > Now that I've lurked long enough and read enough posts to whet my
      > appetite, I want to sit down and make one of these hammocks Ed has
      > illustrated so well in his book. I'm not sure if the seemingly
      > "squeezed" configuration will appease this normally claustrophobic me
      > as much as the Hennessy I own does, but it's worth a try.
      >
      > I'm somewhat curious as to materials, though. In his book, Ed specifies
      > 1.9 oz. ripstop nylon, and yet I have seen quite a number of commercial
      > camping hammocks ( ie: http://www.paradisehammocks.co.uk/ ) which use
      > 1.1 oz parachute silk. The parachute silk I supposed to be incredibly
      > strong and tear resistant, and even strong in UV light. I realize that
      > Ed warns against 1.1 oz. nylon, but would parachute silk be considered
      > the same? Anyone have experience with this? If it is strong enough,
      > wouldn't the lighter weight be worth it?
      >
      > Also, may I ask why polypropylene straps are used instead of spectra
      > rope slung through webbing, like the Hennessy?
      >
      > I've been rarin' to get out into the mountains here in Japan with a
      > hammock, but what with the monsoon deluges lately, my bad experiences
      > with a cold back and shoulders in the Hennessy (3 trips last year), and
      > doubts about my sewing abilities (but I'm going to learn!) I haven't
      > yet gotten up the resources to make hammock camping a reality this
      > year. The high mountains in Japan are merciless with wind, and I'm
      > somewhat reluctant to rely on a hammock in the alpine regions, up at
      > 10,000 feet, still. There are few trees up there... I may just stay
      > with my GoLite Hex 3 tipi for now, unless I can find a more aerodynamic
      > solution.
      >
      > Any thoughts?
      >
      > Cheers,
      > miguel
      >
      • ~
      miguel arboleda
      s t u d i o b u t u k i
      _______________
      sampo@...
      Laughing Knees Blog- http://www.butuki.com/

      eyes to see, hands to touch, legs to walk, and a mind under the open sky
    • Ed Speer
      Ok Miguel, I thought about your question, but didn t really have a good answer. I ve also seen other hammocks advertized as using strong parachute
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Message
        Ok Miguel, I thought about your question, but didn't really have a good answer.  I've also seen other hammocks advertized as using 'strong' parachute nylon/silk fabric, but I don't know if this is stronger than 1.9  ripstop; it may actually be less strong.  We know that hammocks made from 1.1 ripstop do not have a long life (Hennessey makes them for one time use only--like an eco challenge race).  I just don't know what parachute silk really is--I suspect various fabrics have been used for parachutes over time--how they compare with the relatively new 1.9 & 1.1 ripstop nylon is unknown.  I also suspect some advertizers are using the catch words "parachute silk/nylon" incorrectly. 
         
        Many fabrics are suitable for hammocks. Some nylon taffetas would work quite well.  These are not ripstop, but some are suitably strong enough.  Since taffeta is generally much less expensive than ripstop, some manufacturers use it instead  and call it "parachute nylon" to impress potential customers. 
         
        However, I've still not found anything lighter AND stronger than ripstop nylon for any given weight/square yard.  I have researched real silk as a possible candidate, but the cost prohibits prototype testing.  Are parachutes made with real silk?---I doubt it.
         
        Regarding straps instead of spectra rope w/ webbing tree straps:  I've found full straps to be less harmful to trees and less hassel  to use. Yes they weigh more, so I don't use them without good reason....Ed
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Miguel Arboleda [mailto:butuki@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 8:30 PM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Hammock Camping Three Digests Later...

        Hmmm, I posted these questions three days ago and not a single response. Sort of makes a body feel as if it were "left hanging"...

        Message: 5
        Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:43:42 +0900
        From: Miguel Arboleda < butuki@... >
        Subject: Parachute Silk

        Now that I've lurked long enough and read enough posts to whet my
        appetite, I want to sit down and make one of these hammocks Ed has
        illustrated so well in his book. I'm not sure if the seemingly
        "squeezed" configuration will appease this normally claustrophobic me
        as much as the Hennessy I own does, but it's worth a try.

        I'm somewhat curious as to materials, though. In his book, Ed specifies
        1.9 oz. ripstop nylon, and yet I have seen quite a number of commercial
        camping hammocks ( ie: http://www.paradisehammocks.co.uk/ ) which use
        1.1 oz parachute silk. The parachute silk I supposed to be incredibly
        strong and tear resistant, and even strong in UV light. I realize that
        Ed warns against 1.1 oz. nylon, but would parachute silk be considered
        the same? Anyone have experience with this? If it is strong enough,
        wouldn't the lighter weight be worth it?

        Also, may I ask why polypropylene straps are used instead of spectra
        rope slung through webbing, like the Hennessy?

        I've been rarin' to get out into the mountains here in Japan with a
        hammock, but what with the monsoon deluges lately, my bad experiences
        with a cold back and shoulders in the Hennessy (3 trips last year), and
        doubts about my sewing abilities (but I'm going to learn!) I haven't
        yet gotten up the resources to make hammock camping a reality this
        year. The high mountains in Japan are merciless with wind, and I'm
        somewhat reluctant to rely on a hammock in the alpine regions, up at
        10,000 feet, still. There are few trees up there... I may just stay
        with my GoLite Hex 3 tipi for now, unless I can find a more aerodynamic
        solution.

        Any thoughts?

        Cheers,
        miguel

        • ~
        miguel arboleda
        s t u d i o b u t u k i
        _______________
        sampo@...
        Laughing Knees Blog- http://www.butuki.com/

        eyes to see, hands to touch, legs to walk, and a mind under the open sky
      • colonelcorn76
        ... spectra ... Ed can probably fill in the answers for you but one of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is that I
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Arboleda <butuki@g...>
          wrote:
          > > Also, may I ask why polypropylene straps are used instead of
          spectra
          > > rope slung through webbing, like the Hennessy?

          Ed can probably fill in the answers for you but one of the problems
          I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is
          that I can't know for sure what the quality/strength of the webbing
          is. It's not typically something printed anywhere. Spectra and Pulse
          line is made to a standard that is documented with the spool so I'm
          much more comfortable with trusting I won't be ending up with my
          butt on the ground (I broke my tailbone once and don't want to do
          that again).

          Jim
        • Risk
          Jim wrote: One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a homemade hammock is that I can t know for sure what the strength of the webbing
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 1, 2003
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            Jim wrote:

            One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
            homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
            the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.

            I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how strong
            it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
            would say it is not strong enough.

            Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff. Once you find a source
            that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while.

            Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
            and your friend sit on it. This is a rather standard engineering
            method of stressing something to twice its normal load. If you are
            concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
            during the test. Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but with
            a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap. I
            have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
            fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
            Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
            destructive... the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
            enough for operational use.

            So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.

            BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
            tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well. Here
            you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close to
            breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does wonders
            to increase your faith in the product.

            Rick
          • Ed Speer
            Jim, Rick Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will probably be the weak
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 2, 2003
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              Message
              Jim, Rick  Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will probably be the weak point.  I've had no problem using 4 heavy bar tacks in a 4" length, but the quality of the bar tacks & the thread is critical.  Weak bar tacks can easily fail, one at a time.  A published rope climbing expert has recently told me that 4-7 well made bar tacks are standard on climbing harnesses.  Sewing bar tacks too heavy, or with too many needle holes, can also damage and weaken the webbing--use a round point needle when possible.  Otherwise, sew up to 7 bar tacks--if they fail, they may do so slowly enought for you to react in time.  Inspect the stichting often!    ...Ed
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Risk [mailto:geoflyfisher@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:34 PM
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Three Digests Later...

              Jim wrote:

              One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
              homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
              the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.

              I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how strong
              it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
              would say it is not strong enough. 

              Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff.  Once you find a source
              that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while. 

              Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
              and your friend sit on it.  This is a rather standard engineering
              method of stressing something to twice its normal load.  If you are
              concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
              during the test.  Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but with
              a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap.   I
              have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
              fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
              Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
              destructive...  the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
              enough for operational use.

              So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.

              BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
              tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well.  Here
              you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close to
              breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does wonders
              to increase your faith in the product. 

              Rick



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            • Risk
              Hi Ed, Yep, that is the reason I tested my hammock with the weight of the two of us as well. I use three bar tacks presently, but I am trying to make it
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 2, 2003
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                Hi Ed,

                Yep, that is the reason I tested my hammock with the weight of the
                two of us as well. I use three bar tacks presently, but I am trying
                to make it strong enough to hold about 600 pounds... unlike in my
                climbing days when I would not have been satisfied with a load
                strength of under 3000-6000 pounds. It is amazing how much pull you
                can get in a fall.

                If anyone wants to put together a hammock that works perfectly well
                for two so you can do tests on webbing, just use two layers of 1.9
                ripstop. It works very nicely.

                Rick

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
                > Jim, Rick Just a note about testing webbing strength--Any stitching
                > holding the webbing together (as in the knots or end loops) will
                > probably be the weak point. I've had no problem using 4 heavy bar
                tacks
                > in a 4" length, but the quality of the bar tacks & the thread is
                > critical. Weak bar tacks can easily fail, one at a time. A
                published
                > rope climbing expert has recently told me that 4-7 well made bar
                tacks
                > are standard on climbing harnesses. Sewing bar tacks too heavy, or
                with
                > too many needle holes, can also damage and weaken the webbing--use a
                > round point needle when possible. Otherwise, sew up to 7 bar tacks-
                -if
                > they fail, they may do so slowly enought for you to react in time.
                > Inspect the stichting often! ...Ed
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Risk [mailto:geoflyfisher@y...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 11:34 PM
                > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Three Digests Later...
                >
                >
                > Jim wrote:
                >
                > One of the problems I have with a webbing based tie-off system on a
                > homemade hammock is that I can't know for sure what the strength of
                > the webbing is. It's not typically something printed anywhere.
                >
                > I agree it is not printed anywhere and no one can tell you how
                strong
                > it is, and if they knew why you wanted to know, you can bet they
                > would say it is not strong enough.
                >
                > Fortunately, one can easily test the stuff. Once you find a source
                > that is acceptable, you can trust it for a while.
                >
                > Easiest method is to tie the webbing between two trees and have you
                > and your friend sit on it. This is a rather standard engineering
                > method of stressing something to twice its normal load. If you are
                > concerned about hurting yourself, put something soft on the ground
                > during the test. Webbing does not usually fail with a bang, but
                with
                > a zipper like sound of breaking as the lengthwise threads snap. I
                > have not had any of the 1 inch poly webbing I have gotten from the
                > fabric store or from Walmart or from Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics or
                > Seattle fabrics fail this test. The test has not even been
                > destructive... the same webbing I tested seems perfectly strong
                > enough for operational use.
                >
                > So if that is what is keeping you from experimenting, give it a try.
                >
                > BTW, the hammock itself with it's bartacked loops of webbing can be
                > tested with the two person test in a 1.9 oz hammock as well. Here
                > you are risking the hammock fabric too, because it really is close
                to
                > breaking when you get 400 pounds in the hammock, but it does
                wonders
                > to increase your faith in the product.
                >
                > Rick
                >
                >
                >
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