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Another night out, VERY unplanned

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  • m2b1997
    Thanks for the post and tips guys. Dave your report was interesting. I have to go back and reread it again, now with a little bit more experience under my
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 9, 2009
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      Thanks for the post and tips guys. Dave your report was
      interesting. I have to go back and reread it again, now with a
      little bit more experience under my belt and see if this time I can
      figure out what I missed before(sensible/insensible sweat, what...the
      same as working hard and sweating/sleeping and sweating???)

      After finding out that it looks like a massive chunk of the rest of
      the winter is pretty much trashed thanks to work I figured I wasn't
      going to get any more real nice chances for heading outside for any
      overnighters. The weather forecast between now and the end of the
      weekend was pretty much snow each night and the warmest night was
      supposed to be last night. Tonight is forecast to be -2. I may be
      out helping make snow overnight one if not both of the next two
      nights which means I won't be getting any sleep.

      Last night I was about to go to bed, around 11:30-midnight. I looked
      out the window while at the kitchen sink and I noticed it looked like
      the moon was shining quite brightly. I looked out another window and
      it was...not a cloud in the sky. I took a look at the satellite
      image and it showed I should be totally under the clouds with some
      light snow off into NY but very scattered and very light. I noticed
      as well on the outdoor thermometer it was already 14 degrees out.

      I thought for a minute or so and said the heck with it I'm sleeping
      under the stars, at least for a few minutes tonight. At the same
      time I decided to do things slightly different based on what I had
      read on here. I tried to find my felt/whatever it's made out
      mouth/nose protector I bought for snow skiing over a decade ago but
      wasn't able to find it. I did find some fleece fabric I had laying
      around and cut some of it up to stick under my hat and wrap around
      the face to try to keep the vapor from escaping as much and freezing
      on the sleeping bag. This worked quite well by the way.

      Next I pulled out an old .25 mil or whatever plastic bag and cut it
      in half lengthwise and then cut off the bottom. Now I had a nice
      long sheet of plastic that would ALMOST fit all the way from my
      shoulders down to my feet. I stuck it in the sleeping bag figuring I
      would sleep on top of it. I didn't know what to fully expect but I
      knew I was just a minute or two walk from my front door so I wasn't
      worried.

      I loaded up the hammock and headed on out. It was closer to 1AM than
      midnight by the time I walked out the front door. Like I said, I
      wasn't planning on sleeping outside last night. As I got out to the
      trees where I left the tie downs wrapped around the trees from before
      I had already thought a little about the fact I had seen 3.5 inches
      of snow/sleet on Wednesday. As I hooked up the hammock and got in
      and took off my boots I didn't think anything more about. Everything
      seemed okay...as least until a little later.

      I laid down and got the plastic sheet positioned under me like I
      wanted it, upper shoulders to just above the feet. I put on the
      fleece nose/mouth cover and proceeded to fall asleep. I woke up two
      hours later and went to the bathroom. Like I said this wasn't a
      planned night out. I wouldn't have drank so much water in the
      evening if I had been planning on camping out. I did manage to learn
      the secret to piss right from the hammock without getting any on the
      hammock. Sorry, had to admit it though.

      As I woke up I noticed something. My left foot was rather cold. The
      right foot was fine??? I started thinking right off the bat about
      not having the VB under my feet and wandering it that was the cause.

      After going to bathroom I laid back down and the foot was actually
      about back to normal. It recovered quite quickly, very unusually.
      As I was getting myself settled in I noticed it felt like I hit
      bottom, err snow. Turns out the 3.5 inches of snow on Wednesday was
      enough to sending dragging bottom when I had the bulk majority of my
      weight in the center of the hammock(lengthwise). That'll teach
      me...MAYBE. Guess I'll have to get out there and do a little
      stomping around to pack the snow down some more right underneath
      where the hammock hangs.

      I fell back asleep to wake up two hours later and went to the
      bathroom again. Everything still seemed pretty decent/comfortable.
      I didn't notice the foot this time around. It was starting to seem
      like their might be a VERY SMALL amount of clamminess building up but
      not much. I figured but I didn't look, that the temperature was
      probably mid to upper teens. I think I was being optimistic.

      I fell back asleep and finally woke up about 6:15. Granted it wasn't
      the nice long night out like last time, full eight hours, but it was
      another night out. This time I was noticing a questionable
      situation. I'm not sure if it was the body cooling down or if it was
      clamminess. I could be swayed in either direction as to what I was
      noticing, I noticed mostly on the lower back.

      The fleece face cover had gotten wet overnight but amazingly it was
      drying out VERY fast. All I had to do each time I got up to go to
      the bathroom was to put it in my sweat shirt pocket and by the time I
      was laying back down and was ready to put it back on it was pretty
      much dry.

      When I got inside I did a quick check and the only two spots on the
      hammock that was wet/frosty was the head, to be expected, and...the
      feet. Is that because of having no VB down by the feet???

      When I woke up the final time I checked and saw it was a balmy 10
      degrees out. The winds did die down overnight as they were a bit
      active when I first went to bed.

      Amazing. I can use the same sleeping bag/pad/pillow/sweat
      shirt/pants and sleep in a hammock warmer than I can by sleeping on
      the ground even when the temperature is the same and the skies are
      crystal clear both times. I thought it was suppose to be just the
      exact opposite.

      MEANT 2B
    • Ed Speer
      Great report m2b. It may well be that the frost at the foot of your hammock/sleeping bag was due to the lack of the vapor barrier sheet under your feet. That
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 9, 2009
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        Great report m2b. It may well be that the frost at the foot of your
        hammock/sleeping bag was due to the lack of the vapor barrier sheet under
        your feet. That may also explain your cold foot earlier in the night when
        the rest of your body was comfortably warm. Sounds like you're well on your
        way to reaping the benefits of vapor barriers for winter hammocking! Keep
        testing & trying different systems til you find what works best for you--&
        let us know how it goes..Ed



        Moderator, Hammock Camping List

        Author, Hammock Camping book

        Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

        Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of m2b1997
        Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:48 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Another night out, VERY unplanned



        Thanks for the post and tips guys. Dave your report was
        interesting. I have to go back and reread it again, now with a
        little bit more experience under my belt and see if this time I can
        figure out what I missed before(sensible/insensible sweat, what...the
        same as working hard and sweating/sleeping and sweating???)

        After finding out that it looks like a massive chunk of the rest of
        the winter is pretty much trashed thanks to work I figured I wasn't
        going to get any more real nice chances for heading outside for any
        overnighters. The weather forecast between now and the end of the
        weekend was pretty much snow each night and the warmest night was
        supposed to be last night. Tonight is forecast to be -2. I may be
        out helping make snow overnight one if not both of the next two
        nights which means I won't be getting any sleep.

        Last night I was about to go to bed, around 11:30-midnight. I looked
        out the window while at the kitchen sink and I noticed it looked like
        the moon was shining quite brightly. I looked out another window and
        it was...not a cloud in the sky. I took a look at the satellite
        image and it showed I should be totally under the clouds with some
        light snow off into NY but very scattered and very light. I noticed
        as well on the outdoor thermometer it was already 14 degrees out.

        I thought for a minute or so and said the heck with it I'm sleeping
        under the stars, at least for a few minutes tonight. At the same
        time I decided to do things slightly different based on what I had
        read on here. I tried to find my felt/whatever it's made out
        mouth/nose protector I bought for snow skiing over a decade ago but
        wasn't able to find it. I did find some fleece fabric I had laying
        around and cut some of it up to stick under my hat and wrap around
        the face to try to keep the vapor from escaping as much and freezing
        on the sleeping bag. This worked quite well by the way.

        Next I pulled out an old .25 mil or whatever plastic bag and cut it
        in half lengthwise and then cut off the bottom. Now I had a nice
        long sheet of plastic that would ALMOST fit all the way from my
        shoulders down to my feet. I stuck it in the sleeping bag figuring I
        would sleep on top of it. I didn't know what to fully expect but I
        knew I was just a minute or two walk from my front door so I wasn't
        worried.

        I loaded up the hammock and headed on out. It was closer to 1AM than
        midnight by the time I walked out the front door. Like I said, I
        wasn't planning on sleeping outside last night. As I got out to the
        trees where I left the tie downs wrapped around the trees from before
        I had already thought a little about the fact I had seen 3.5 inches
        of snow/sleet on Wednesday. As I hooked up the hammock and got in
        and took off my boots I didn't think anything more about. Everything
        seemed okay...as least until a little later.

        I laid down and got the plastic sheet positioned under me like I
        wanted it, upper shoulders to just above the feet. I put on the
        fleece nose/mouth cover and proceeded to fall asleep. I woke up two
        hours later and went to the bathroom. Like I said this wasn't a
        planned night out. I wouldn't have drank so much water in the
        evening if I had been planning on camping out. I did manage to learn
        the secret to piss right from the hammock without getting any on the
        hammock. Sorry, had to admit it though.

        As I woke up I noticed something. My left foot was rather cold. The
        right foot was fine??? I started thinking right off the bat about
        not having the VB under my feet and wandering it that was the cause.

        After going to bathroom I laid back down and the foot was actually
        about back to normal. It recovered quite quickly, very unusually.
        As I was getting myself settled in I noticed it felt like I hit
        bottom, err snow. Turns out the 3.5 inches of snow on Wednesday was
        enough to sending dragging bottom when I had the bulk majority of my
        weight in the center of the hammock(lengthwise). That'll teach
        me...MAYBE. Guess I'll have to get out there and do a little
        stomping around to pack the snow down some more right underneath
        where the hammock hangs.

        I fell back asleep to wake up two hours later and went to the
        bathroom again. Everything still seemed pretty decent/comfortable.
        I didn't notice the foot this time around. It was starting to seem
        like their might be a VERY SMALL amount of clamminess building up but
        not much. I figured but I didn't look, that the temperature was
        probably mid to upper teens. I think I was being optimistic.

        I fell back asleep and finally woke up about 6:15. Granted it wasn't
        the nice long night out like last time, full eight hours, but it was
        another night out. This time I was noticing a questionable
        situation. I'm not sure if it was the body cooling down or if it was
        clamminess. I could be swayed in either direction as to what I was
        noticing, I noticed mostly on the lower back.

        The fleece face cover had gotten wet overnight but amazingly it was
        drying out VERY fast. All I had to do each time I got up to go to
        the bathroom was to put it in my sweat shirt pocket and by the time I
        was laying back down and was ready to put it back on it was pretty
        much dry.

        When I got inside I did a quick check and the only two spots on the
        hammock that was wet/frosty was the head, to be expected, and...the
        feet. Is that because of having no VB down by the feet???

        When I woke up the final time I checked and saw it was a balmy 10
        degrees out. The winds did die down overnight as they were a bit
        active when I first went to bed.

        Amazing. I can use the same sleeping bag/pad/pillow/sweat
        shirt/pants and sleep in a hammock warmer than I can by sleeping on
        the ground even when the temperature is the same and the skies are
        crystal clear both times. I thought it was suppose to be just the
        exact opposite.

        MEANT 2B





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • m2b1997
        Ed, I kinda figured that what the situation was. I still don t understand why but I can recognize the cause/effect. Don t you hate when you know what to
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 9, 2009
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          Ed, I kinda figured that what the situation was. I still don't
          understand why but I can recognize the cause/effect. Don't you hate
          when you know what to expect but you don't understand why it occurs.
          Understanding is the way to being able to implement the system the
          way it is suppose to be done.

          Okay, I'll ask a couple of questions at the right time. Seeing the
          sunny skies right now I decided to hop over and take a look at the
          most recent forecast. No snow tonight instead partly cloudy, now
          with a low of 2 above. If I'm not out making snow ??? I'm planning
          to camp out again. The thing I see maybe as a problem is getting
          down to the minimum temperature range of the bag. I have a heavier
          weight(not a thin shell) Gore-Tex jacket, and shell Gore-Tex pants.
          I realize that puts me with an additional breathable layer, with the
          jacket also being a bit of an insulating layer(when I thruhiked I
          wouldn't put it on when raining unless it was 40 degrees out, I would
          sweat up a storm without trying...it isn't a shell, it has some
          insulating factor to it. It was probably the fourth heaviest single
          item I was carrying on the thruhike, after the backpack, sleeping
          bag, and tent).

          Is it better to add insulation or to work with VB when you are at the
          low end of the suggested range on a sleeping bag? I have a feeling
          there may be a good chance of actually seeing zero in my yard tonight
          which would really put me in new territory at right at the bottom of
          the rating on the bag. I know 10 degrees laying on snow is pretty
          much the bottom end with what I have typically been wearing but I
          figure I have 2-4 more degrees I could easily go when it comes to
          being in the hammock, based on what I saw last night.

          MEANT 2B
        • Ed Speer
          M2b, you are a brave one! I d consider both options at the same time! Wearing insulated clothing inside a sleeping bag is wise of course, but don t forget
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 9, 2009
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            M2b, you are a brave one! I'd consider both options at the same time!
            Wearing insulated clothing inside a sleeping bag is wise of course, but
            don't forget that if you don't have enough room inside the sleeping bag, you
            could be stretching it with the extra thick clothes & that could cause a
            loss of loft (& a loss of warmth). Down has little to no resistance to
            compression & if you overstuff the sleeping bag, you could cause it to lose
            warmth as the inner & outer shells are stretched different amounts causing
            the down to collapse & lose loft. This isn't as big a problem with
            synthetic bags, but it can also happen to them. In general of course, the
            more layers & the more down insulation you have, the warmer you will be.
            I'm a cold sleeper & I don't like being cold, so I'd try both the insulated
            clothes & the vapor barrier sheet. Stay warm & good luck..Ed



            Moderator, Hammock Camping List

            Author, Hammock Camping book

            Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

            Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc





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