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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents

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  • Tom Frazier
    I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 27, 2008
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      I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried about flaming issues!




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ralph Oborn
      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:19 AM
      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents


      hammocks bounce around a lot.

      Just for an experiment

      1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
      move in and out.
      2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
      above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
      3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.

      Ralph Oborn

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ralph Oborn
      Thanks, I ll stop worrying about you guys Ralph ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 27, 2008
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        Thanks,

        I'll stop worrying about you guys

        Ralph

        On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Tom Frazier <wildewudu@...> wrote:

        > I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but
        > inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within
        > six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging
        > further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried
        > about flaming issues!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Ralph Oborn
        > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:19 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents
        >
        >
        > hammocks bounce around a lot.
        >
        > Just for an experiment
        >
        > 1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
        > move in and out.
        > 2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
        > above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
        > 3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.
        >
        > Ralph Oborn
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Womble
        I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true winter tent for a
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 28, 2008
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          I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
          missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true
          winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
          important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
          make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
          make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
          doesn't do anything well."

          I do have what is arguable a true winter tent in a Stevenson 2R and
          have made and used hammock tarptents. I have used both in mildish
          winter conditions in the southeast Appalachian Mountains and can
          easily appreciate the difference between their capabilities. In my
          experience, the more I tried to make a winter tarptent for a hammock,
          the more I felt like I was trying to make a tank out of a sports car
          where I ended up with something that didn't do anything particularly
          well. It looked impressive to those that didn't appreciate wind
          loading, snow loads, complexity of setup, inflexibility of how it
          could be setup, etc (and I didn't appreciate those myself until I got
          field experience with it). In the end I settled for a winter tarp
          design for a hammock that was capable of blocking direct hits from
          moderate wind but was still sports car-ish enough to not be too
          complex to setup and has lots of flexibility in how it can be setup.
          I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
          tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are capable
          of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
          wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
          guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
          major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you... that
          is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
          suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a true
          winter tent when high winds or storms are expected.

          Dave

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
          >
          > I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a
          > tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a
          > novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock campers
          > are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
          > winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience counts
          > and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a few
          > luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
          > elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent far
          > outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
          > trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go light.
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
          > > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
          > >
          > > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.
          > >
          > > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
          > > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
          > > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of
          > for
          > > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
          > > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of
          > snow
          > > falling from limbs.
          > >
          > > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
          > level.
          > > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
          > > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure.
          > With
          > > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
          > > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
          > > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
          > > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.
          > >
          > > Dave Womble
          > > aka Youngblood 2000AT
          > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,
          > and
          > > WinterTarp
          > >
          >
        • gilmem2
          You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime, I will throw out a
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 29, 2008
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            You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter
            hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime,
            I will throw out a compromise rig I use during the winter, which has
            worked pretty good to 20 degrees with 30+ mph winds, even with a
            cheap wallyworld synthetic bag and no underquilt stuff. It ain't
            great, but is works for now.

            I use the cheap polyethelene (blue, camo, etc) tarps from the
            lumberyard or wally world. I keep several laying around for other
            uses anyway. Depending on whether I am car camping or backpacking, I
            use something from 10x16 up to 12x20.

            I throw it over a ridge line and stake both sides to the ground with
            the ridge a couple feet off center. I rig the height so that one
            side is just above a 10/12 pitch, the other just below. 10/12 is
            approximately wind neutral. Flatter causes uplift, while a steeper
            pitch catches side pressure. Staying close to a 10/12 and staking to
            the ground minimizes wind effects to a large degree.

            For the ends I cut a 10x12 tarp in half down the diagonal, and I hook
            one half to each end with 4to 6 tarp clips for car camping, or the
            same number of pebbles and mason twine if backpacking. If the wind
            is kicking hard, I stake out the center of each end as the size of
            the tarp allows.

            I try to rig so that the hammock hangs crosswind to let the big tarp
            shed the wind. The ridge line is on the hammock entry side of the
            trees, as is the flat or wide pitch. The hammock itself is rigged to
            the back side of the trees. This allows a pretty big space on the
            front side for chair or stool, changing, cooking, etc.

            Low cost and effective, but a bit heavy and inelegant. With the
            smaller tarp, I leave the most leeward end a bit loose to discourage
            condensation, since the poly does not breathe at all. The bigger tarp
            is less prone to the problem.

            I like Dave's winter tarp design for backpacking, but for under $30 I
            am fine with my rig for all winter here in Alabama, until someone
            comes up with a nicer nylon rig a bit bigger than Dave's at a lower
            price. At the rate y'all are going, that should be within a couple
            of years. Above 40 degrees, I just use a nylon hex tarp, back side
            low, front up a bit for easier access, and don't worry about it.

            Like everyone else, I would really like something that handles like a
            sports car, protects like a tank, and costs near nothing. Someone
            out there can put it together.

            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
            > missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a
            true
            > winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
            > important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
            > make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
            > make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
            > doesn't do anything well."
            >
            > I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
            > tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are
            capable
            > of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
            > wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
            > guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
            > major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you...
            that
            > is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
            > suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a
            true
            > winter tent when high winds or storms are expected.
            >
            > Dave
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into
            a
            > > tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a
            hammock a
            > > novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock
            campers
            > > are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
            > > winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience
            counts
            > > and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a
            few
            > > luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
            > > elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent
            far
            > > outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
            > > trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go
            light.
            > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@>
            wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a
            true
            > > > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
            > > >
            > > > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a
            hammock.
            > > >
            > > > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to
            trees.
            > > > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a
            hammock.
            > > > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think
            of
            > > for
            > > > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to
            handle
            > > > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps
            of
            > > snow
            > > > falling from limbs.
            > > >
            > > > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
            > > level.
            > > > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along
            those
            > > > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like
            enclosure.
            > > With
            > > > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit
            your
            > > > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for
            a
            > > > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a
            sports
            > > > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything
            well.
            > > >
            > > > Dave Womble
            > > > aka Youngblood 2000AT
            > > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit
            Underquilt,
            > > and
            > > > WinterTarp
            > > >
            > >
            >
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