Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Winter hammock tents

Expand Messages
  • ginohav
    Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by other names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn t eliminate it and if
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 22, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by other
      names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
      eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most hardened
      winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go to a
      tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
      winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I snowshoe
      into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to me.
      I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's off
      my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is the
      biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so I
      can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
      real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
      weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock with
      insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.
    • Tod Massa
      Somebody or a couple of somebodies have developed hammock tents. As for a winter hammock, I have one. I used Risk s two-layer zhammock design and sewed an army
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 23, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Somebody or a couple of somebodies have developed hammock tents.

        As for a winter hammock, I have one. I used Risk's two-layer zhammock design and sewed an army surplus poncho liner into it and added additional fabric to wrap over me. With a pad and a 14oz down quilt, it is good into the upper 20s. For colder weather, a heavier quilt and when it gets really cold, I can still add an underquilt.

        It is still modular, but gives me a wide range of use.

        tod

        ______________________________________________________________________________
        Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.




        ________________________________
        From: ginohav <ginohav@...>
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:28:03 PM
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Winter hammock tents


        Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by other
        names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
        eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most hardened
        winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go to a
        tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
        winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I snowshoe
        into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to me.
        I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's off
        my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is the
        biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so I
        can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
        real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
        weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock with
        insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.

        __._,_.
      • Tom Frazier
        I ve seen a lot of adaptations of using a tarp-tent with a hammock....similar to the speer winter tarp, but with a stove-pipe insert and a ti-goat woodstove.
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 23, 2008
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          I've seen a lot of adaptations of using a tarp-tent with a hammock....similar to the speer winter tarp, but with a stove-pipe insert and a ti-goat woodstove. Eventually, I'd like to do this, but I have no issues winter camping in the mountains with just my speer winter tarp, a few camp pads (closed cell and a self inflating)..but I also like to add some of that reflectivix stuff (bubble wrap w/mylar on either side) as an extra "stuffer" (I have a claytor w/ a camp pad pocket) and as a "floor", which may be one reason why I don't get cold in my hammock. ?? 'Course, having plenty of hand and food warmers don't hurt either!



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ginohav
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:28 PM
          Subject: [Hammock Camping] Winter hammock tents


          Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by other
          names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
          eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most hardened
          winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go to a
          tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
          winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I snowshoe
          into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to me.
          I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's off
          my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is the
          biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so I
          can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
          real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
          weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock with
          insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sandy Kramer
          http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Hammock%20Hut.htm sandy in miami ... other ... hardened ... to a ... snowshoe ... me. ... off ... the ... I ... with
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Hammock%20Hut.htm

            sandy in miami


            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
            >
            > Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by
            other
            > names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it doesn't
            > eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most
            hardened
            > winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go
            to a
            > tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
            > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I
            snowshoe
            > into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing to
            me.
            > I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of oz's
            off
            > my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is
            the
            > biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor so
            I
            > can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm talking
            > real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
            > weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock
            with
            > insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.
            >
          • Sandy Kramer
            I just googled hammock tents and came up with the Siam Hammock Tent, that has, apparently been around for some time . comments going back to 03, and it is in
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              I just googled hammock tents and came up with the Siam Hammock Tent,
              that has, apparently been around for some time . comments going back
              to 03, and it is in the index for Ed Speer's book, so I'll go back
              and take a look.

              ...it was referred to as cheap in Thailand, but I find it on sale for
              $179 http://ovck.com/3AccessoreisF1.htm

              I love my el cheapo Byer's of Maine Moskito Traveller, but don't
              always find trees in the right spot in florida.

              has anyone modified a hammock so you could use as a tent? Mine has
              lots of string - as opposed to a gathered hammock.

              sandy in miami





              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Kramer"
              <sandykayak@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Hammock%20Hut.htm
              >
              > sandy in miami
              >
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Winter hammock camping is great except for wind chill (known by
              > other
              > > names as well). While a rain fly will reduce wind chill it
              doesn't
              > > eliminate it and if the temp. drops low enough even the most
              > hardened
              > > winter hammock camper (if you don't build snow walls ect.)will go
              > to a
              > > tent. Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a
              true
              > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent. I
              > snowshoe
              > > into camp pulling a small sled and an extra 5 lbs means nothing
              to
              > me.
              > > I'd rather be warm and comfortable then try a save a couple of
              oz's
              > off
              > > my gear weight.I work outside in minus temp. everyday and wind is
              > the
              > > biggest killer of all. I would design this tent without a floor
              so
              > I
              > > can add a small tent (fold up type) wood burning stove. I'm
              talking
              > > real winter camping and not going out for a night or two in clear
              > > weather. While we are at it why not design a true winter hammock
              > with
              > > insulation built into the hammock? Just my thoughts.
              > >
              >
            • Jeff
              Here s a hammock tent with a built-in stove jack for a TiGoat woodburning stove. I think he s been to -40F in this one.
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Here's a hammock tent with a built-in stove jack for a TiGoat
                woodburning stove. I think he's been to -40F in this one.
                http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/showthread.php?
                t=2244&highlight=stove+jack

                And here's Grizz's DIY tarptent for his bridge hammock.
                http://www.hammockforums.net/gallery/showimage.php?
                i=2494&catid=searchresults&searchid=11334

                Here's a hammock with insulation built in. There are several of these
                projects around, but PandaHammock is the only commercial one and it's
                no good.
                http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearDownHammock2.html

                Hope this helps!

                Jeff
              • hungry
                I am currently building a hammock with a tent attachment. The hammock has 3/4 PVC tubing as spreader bars, to a width of about 30 . The hammock is 7 4 long
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am currently building a hammock with a tent attachment. The hammock
                  has 3/4" PVC tubing as spreader bars, to a width of about 30". The
                  hammock is 7'4" long and can transform into a BAT hammock ( single
                  point attachment) when the spreader bars are removed from their velcro
                  sleeves. It has been a huge pain in the butt to build. :D But it
                  looks fantastic. Building the rain fly/ tent today...it too must
                  transform for the BAT mode...!

                  I added a sleeve to the floor of the hammock for the insertion of a
                  sleeping pad. I can fit a full sized foam-style inflatable pad and a
                  thing reflective pad as well, for colder weather.

                  So far, so good...Wish me luck. :D
                • hungry
                  Here is a site that sells a very well thought out design... you can get a tent, netting, and cozy quilt for it. As well, they sell models with a sleeve for a
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Here is a site that sells a very well thought out design... you can
                    get a tent, netting, and cozy quilt for it. As well, they sell models
                    with a sleeve for a sleeping pad insert. Roomy enough for two, very
                    stable.

                    http://www.newtribe.com/



                    And this is a super awesome one point hammock. You can sew a sleeve
                    into it. Very well thought out as well, excellent for rock climbing
                    or and hardcore minimalist.

                    http://www.mosquitohammock.com/bathammock.html
                  • hungry
                    Also, since we are on the topic of hammock TENTS, why not hang a small candle lantern inside?? With a wire screen surround, even if it fell, it would not burn
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 24, 2008
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Also, since we are on the topic of hammock TENTS, why not hang a small
                      candle lantern inside?? With a wire screen surround, even if it fell,
                      it would not burn anything due to the wire surround keeping the
                      distance from the fabric, etc...
                    • Dave Womble
                      ... I m not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock. Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees. Also they require
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 25, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
                        >
                        ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
                        > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...

                        I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.

                        Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
                        Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
                        All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of for
                        a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
                        serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of snow
                        falling from limbs.

                        Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully level.
                        Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
                        lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure. With
                        hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
                        exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
                        hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
                        car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.

                        Dave Womble
                        aka Youngblood 2000AT
                        designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                        WinterTarp
                      • ginohav
                        I don t think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a novice winter camper
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 25, 2008
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a
                          tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a
                          novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock campers
                          are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
                          winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience counts
                          and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a few
                          luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
                          elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent far
                          outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
                          trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go light.
                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
                          > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
                          >
                          > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.
                          >
                          > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
                          > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
                          > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of
                          for
                          > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
                          > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of
                          snow
                          > falling from limbs.
                          >
                          > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
                          level.
                          > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
                          > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure.
                          With
                          > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
                          > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
                          > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
                          > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.
                          >
                          > Dave Womble
                          > aka Youngblood 2000AT
                          > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,
                          and
                          > WinterTarp
                          >
                        • Ralph Oborn
                          hammocks bounce around a lot. Just for an experiment 1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you move in and out. 2. Light the
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 27, 2008
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            hammocks bounce around a lot.


                            Just for an experiment

                            1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
                            move in and out.
                            2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
                            above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
                            3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.


                            Ralph Oborn


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Tom Frazier
                            I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 27, 2008
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried about flaming issues!




                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ralph Oborn
                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:19 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents


                              hammocks bounce around a lot.

                              Just for an experiment

                              1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
                              move in and out.
                              2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
                              above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
                              3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.

                              Ralph Oborn

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ralph Oborn
                              Thanks, I ll stop worrying about you guys Ralph ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 27, 2008
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks,

                                I'll stop worrying about you guys

                                Ralph

                                On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Tom Frazier <wildewudu@...> wrote:

                                > I have a candle lantern that I use, but I hang it outside my hammock, but
                                > inside my tarp from a guyline I run. No problems with burning even within
                                > six inches of the tarp fabric, but I watch it and usually have it hanging
                                > further away. There's always the LED laterns for folks who are worried
                                > about flaming issues!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Ralph Oborn
                                > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 9:19 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Winter hammock tents
                                >
                                >
                                > hammocks bounce around a lot.
                                >
                                > Just for an experiment
                                >
                                > 1. hang an unlit candle in your setup and see how much it moves while you
                                > move in and out.
                                > 2. Light the candle on a table and put some of your fabric 4 inches or so
                                > above it and see if it starts to char after 15 minutes or so.
                                > 3. Then bounce it around some to see if the melted wax is contained.
                                >
                                > Ralph Oborn
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dave Womble
                                I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true winter tent for a
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 28, 2008
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
                                  missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a true
                                  winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
                                  important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
                                  make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
                                  make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
                                  doesn't do anything well."

                                  I do have what is arguable a true winter tent in a Stevenson 2R and
                                  have made and used hammock tarptents. I have used both in mildish
                                  winter conditions in the southeast Appalachian Mountains and can
                                  easily appreciate the difference between their capabilities. In my
                                  experience, the more I tried to make a winter tarptent for a hammock,
                                  the more I felt like I was trying to make a tank out of a sports car
                                  where I ended up with something that didn't do anything particularly
                                  well. It looked impressive to those that didn't appreciate wind
                                  loading, snow loads, complexity of setup, inflexibility of how it
                                  could be setup, etc (and I didn't appreciate those myself until I got
                                  field experience with it). In the end I settled for a winter tarp
                                  design for a hammock that was capable of blocking direct hits from
                                  moderate wind but was still sports car-ish enough to not be too
                                  complex to setup and has lots of flexibility in how it can be setup.
                                  I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
                                  tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are capable
                                  of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
                                  wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
                                  guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
                                  major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you... that
                                  is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
                                  suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a true
                                  winter tent when high winds or storms are expected.

                                  Dave

                                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into a
                                  > tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a hammock a
                                  > novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock campers
                                  > are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
                                  > winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience counts
                                  > and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a few
                                  > luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
                                  > elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent far
                                  > outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
                                  > trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go light.
                                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a true
                                  > > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a hammock.
                                  > >
                                  > > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to trees.
                                  > > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a hammock.
                                  > > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think of
                                  > for
                                  > > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to handle
                                  > > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps of
                                  > snow
                                  > > falling from limbs.
                                  > >
                                  > > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
                                  > level.
                                  > > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along those
                                  > > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like enclosure.
                                  > With
                                  > > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit your
                                  > > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for a
                                  > > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a sports
                                  > > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything well.
                                  > >
                                  > > Dave Womble
                                  > > aka Youngblood 2000AT
                                  > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,
                                  > and
                                  > > WinterTarp
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • gilmem2
                                  You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime, I will throw out a
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 29, 2008
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    You guys are right on target with your various concerns about winter
                                    hammock tents, and I really look forward to your progress. Meantime,
                                    I will throw out a compromise rig I use during the winter, which has
                                    worked pretty good to 20 degrees with 30+ mph winds, even with a
                                    cheap wallyworld synthetic bag and no underquilt stuff. It ain't
                                    great, but is works for now.

                                    I use the cheap polyethelene (blue, camo, etc) tarps from the
                                    lumberyard or wally world. I keep several laying around for other
                                    uses anyway. Depending on whether I am car camping or backpacking, I
                                    use something from 10x16 up to 12x20.

                                    I throw it over a ridge line and stake both sides to the ground with
                                    the ridge a couple feet off center. I rig the height so that one
                                    side is just above a 10/12 pitch, the other just below. 10/12 is
                                    approximately wind neutral. Flatter causes uplift, while a steeper
                                    pitch catches side pressure. Staying close to a 10/12 and staking to
                                    the ground minimizes wind effects to a large degree.

                                    For the ends I cut a 10x12 tarp in half down the diagonal, and I hook
                                    one half to each end with 4to 6 tarp clips for car camping, or the
                                    same number of pebbles and mason twine if backpacking. If the wind
                                    is kicking hard, I stake out the center of each end as the size of
                                    the tarp allows.

                                    I try to rig so that the hammock hangs crosswind to let the big tarp
                                    shed the wind. The ridge line is on the hammock entry side of the
                                    trees, as is the flat or wide pitch. The hammock itself is rigged to
                                    the back side of the trees. This allows a pretty big space on the
                                    front side for chair or stool, changing, cooking, etc.

                                    Low cost and effective, but a bit heavy and inelegant. With the
                                    smaller tarp, I leave the most leeward end a bit loose to discourage
                                    condensation, since the poly does not breathe at all. The bigger tarp
                                    is less prone to the problem.

                                    I like Dave's winter tarp design for backpacking, but for under $30 I
                                    am fine with my rig for all winter here in Alabama, until someone
                                    comes up with a nicer nylon rig a bit bigger than Dave's at a lower
                                    price. At the rate y'all are going, that should be within a couple
                                    of years. Above 40 degrees, I just use a nylon hex tarp, back side
                                    low, front up a bit for easier access, and don't worry about it.

                                    Like everyone else, I would really like something that handles like a
                                    sports car, protects like a tank, and costs near nothing. Someone
                                    out there can put it together.

                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I think we have similar feelings about this and that you may have
                                    > missed a detail in my analogy? FWIW, I was referring to making a
                                    true
                                    > winter tent for a hammock, where the 'for a hammock' part is an
                                    > important detail. Here is my statement: "I worry that if you try to
                                    > make true winter tent for a hammock that it might be like trying to
                                    > make a tank out of a sports car where you end up with something that
                                    > doesn't do anything well."
                                    >
                                    > I don't claim that my WinterTarp is a substitute for a true winter
                                    > tent-- I hope folks realize that and appreciate what tarps are
                                    capable
                                    > of compared to aerodynamic tents with lower profiles, no way for the
                                    > wind to get under them, and reinforcements by the way of poles,
                                    > guyouts, etc. In moderate winter conditions in a hammock, wind is a
                                    > major problem because of how much heat it takes away from you...
                                    that
                                    > is what I address with my WinterTarp for a hammock. I would never
                                    > suggest you can hang it on exposed ridgelines, etc like you can a
                                    true
                                    > winter tent when high winds or storms are expected.
                                    >
                                    > Dave
                                    >
                                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I don't think designing a winter tent will make a sports car into
                                    a
                                    > > tank. Unless you know how to handle winter conditions in a
                                    hammock a
                                    > > novice winter camper can quickly get into trouble. Hammock
                                    campers
                                    > > are a small group compared to campers overall. Hammock camping in
                                    > > winter is like taking a small boat across an ocean. Experience
                                    counts
                                    > > and an order to make it appeal to more people you have to add a
                                    few
                                    > > luxuries. And right now the luxury of a tent to get out of the
                                    > > elements appeals to more winter campers. The advantages of a tent
                                    far
                                    > > outweigh the negatives. More winter campers have frozen to death
                                    > > trying to shave off a few oz's from their pack trying to go
                                    light.
                                    > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ginohav" <ginohav@>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > ... Why not just design a winter hammock tent. I'm talking a
                                    true
                                    > > > > winter tent and not just a modified rain fly used as a tent...
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I'm not sure how you are defining a true winter tent for a
                                    hammock.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Hammocks set up higher off the ground and usually attach to
                                    trees.
                                    > > > Also they require longer shelters due to the profile of a
                                    hammock.
                                    > > > All that would seem to complicate a few things for what I think
                                    of
                                    > > for
                                    > > > a true winter tent for a hammock where you need to be able to
                                    handle
                                    > > > serious winds (and from any direction) and handle large clumps
                                    of
                                    > > snow
                                    > > > falling from limbs.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Tents are restricted to cleared flat areas that are hopefully
                                    > > level.
                                    > > > Hammocks inherently are not but become more restrictive along
                                    those
                                    > > > lines the more you try to put them inside a tent like
                                    enclosure.
                                    > > With
                                    > > > hammocks you hope to have more site selection options to limit
                                    your
                                    > > > exposure. I worry that if you try to make true winter tent for
                                    a
                                    > > > hammock that it might be like trying to make a tank out of a
                                    sports
                                    > > > car where you end up with something that doesn't do anything
                                    well.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Dave Womble
                                    > > > aka Youngblood 2000AT
                                    > > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit
                                    Underquilt,
                                    > > and
                                    > > > WinterTarp
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.