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Re: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008

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  • Mark Bayern
    Good questions. ... Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 5, 2008
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      Good questions.

      > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as in "Bridge
      > freezes before road surface")

      Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be
      pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
      with a quilt hung under the hammock.

      > ... enough inside space for changing clothes,
      > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out on a

      I use a Hennesey, which is a bottom entry hammock so I can, when
      necessary, stand up 'inside' the hammock to change. It leaves my lower
      legs out in the open, but who cares? I'm normally in locations where
      changing out in the open is not an issue. Bathing? never tried it in a
      tent or a hammock.

      > ... and whether I'd like it....

      Yep, that is the big question. For me once I tried the hammock I
      decided to stay off the ground. This being the hammock camping group,
      you'll probably find that most of use probably feel the same way.


      Mark





      On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM, EHamilton <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
      > Oh, brother, wouldn't I love that! Can't make it, though. We're going to be
      > in New Orleans. Darn.
      >
      > I'm new to the group, looking for hammock info as I'm debating switching
      > from tenting/tarping to hammocking . I'm planning an AT thru-hike starting
      > April 1.
      >
      > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as in "Bridge
      > freezes before road surface"); enough inside space for changing clothes,
      > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out on a
      > thru-hike with a system I'm not familiar with, and unless I can borrow one
      > from someone to try it out, I don't want to spend money on one and then find
      > I prefer tenting/tarping.
      >
      > But six-or-eight-legged critters and rain can't crawl under its edges, and
      > you don't have to find a level site, big advantages over tarp, whose many
      > uses and light weight are big advantages over the tent, which keeps bugs,
      > rain, and curious glances out but weighs more and can only do one or at most
      > two tricks.
      >
      > Decisions, decisions...
      >
      > MacGyver
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: Ed Speer <ed@...>
      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 9:51:38 AM
      > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008
      >
      > I hope everyone is planning to attend our annual winter hammock campout
      > on Springer Mtn, GA. Here in western NC, its now turned quite cold
      > with some nights in the teens, so cold weather has difinately arrived.
      > The Springer Mtn campout is often a real test for winterized hammocks,
      > although we've seen lows only in the 40s before. If planning to join
      > us, you should keep a close eye on the weather, as the access road is
      > gravel & not maintained in the winter--snow or ice can easily make it
      > unpassable. In spite of the weather, we often have 10-20 hammock
      > campers plus an equal number of ground sleepers for New Year's Eve on
      > Springer.
      >
      > The following link provides more details:
      > http://www.speerhammocks.com/Assets/Articles/Springer08.htm
      >
      > Happy Hammocking....Ed
      >
      > Moderator, Hammock Camping List
      > Author, Hammock Camping book
      > Owner, Speer Hammocks, Inc
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Barb
      My husband and I both own Clark Jungle Hammocks and I can t say enough good things about being up off the ground. We use Big Agnes insulated sleeping bads and
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 5, 2008
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        My husband and I both own Clark Jungle Hammocks and I can't say
        enough good things about being up off the ground. We use Big Agnes
        insulated sleeping bads and with down bags and the right clothes have
        stayed pretty cozy. I wouldn't trade my Hammock for a
        tent.....unless of course there are no trees on which to hang our
        hammocks : )

        Bathing might be a bit of a challenge, but you can hide yourself
        pretty well under the tarp of the hammock.

        I don't have any trouble dressing in my hammock, and I love that
        there are pockets outside the hammock to store anything within easy
        reach. You can sit in your hammock, slip off your boots, put them in
        a plastic bag and tuck them in a pocket on the outside of the hammock.

        Nobody should camp without a hammock. I look forward to trips so
        much more now that I found the equipment to make it more comfortable.

        B

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Bayern" <plcmark@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Good questions.
        >
        > > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as
        in "Bridge
        > > freezes before road surface")
        >
        > Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be
        > pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
        > with a quilt hung under the hammock.
        >
        > > ... enough inside space for changing clothes,
        > > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out
        on a
        >
        > I use a Hennesey, which is a bottom entry hammock so I can, when
        > necessary, stand up 'inside' the hammock to change. It leaves my
        lower
        > legs out in the open, but who cares? I'm normally in locations
        where
        > changing out in the open is not an issue. Bathing? never tried it
        in a
        > tent or a hammock.
        >
        > > ... and whether I'd like it....
        >
        > Yep, that is the big question. For me once I tried the hammock I
        > decided to stay off the ground. This being the hammock camping
        group,
        > you'll probably find that most of use probably feel the same way.
        >
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM, EHamilton <imagainst_the_wind@...>
        wrote:
        > > Oh, brother, wouldn't I love that! Can't make it, though. We're
        going to be
        > > in New Orleans. Darn.
        > >
        > > I'm new to the group, looking for hammock info as I'm debating
        switching
        > > from tenting/tarping to hammocking . I'm planning an AT thru-hike
        starting
        > > April 1.
        > >
        > > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as
        in "Bridge
        > > freezes before road surface"); enough inside space for changing
        clothes,
        > > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out
        on a
        > > thru-hike with a system I'm not familiar with, and unless I can
        borrow one
        > > from someone to try it out, I don't want to spend money on one
        and then find
        > > I prefer tenting/tarping.
        > >
        > > But six-or-eight-legged critters and rain can't crawl under its
        edges, and
        > > you don't have to find a level site, big advantages over tarp,
        whose many
        > > uses and light weight are big advantages over the tent, which
        keeps bugs,
        > > rain, and curious glances out but weighs more and can only do one
        or at most
        > > two tricks.
        > >
        > > Decisions, decisions...
        > >
        > > MacGyver
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > >
        > > From: Ed Speer <ed@...>
        > > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 9:51:38 AM
        > > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008
        > >
        > > I hope everyone is planning to attend our annual winter hammock
        campout
        > > on Springer Mtn, GA. Here in western NC, its now turned quite
        cold
        > > with some nights in the teens, so cold weather has difinately
        arrived.
        > > The Springer Mtn campout is often a real test for winterized
        hammocks,
        > > although we've seen lows only in the 40s before. If planning to
        join
        > > us, you should keep a close eye on the weather, as the access
        road is
        > > gravel & not maintained in the winter--snow or ice can easily
        make it
        > > unpassable. In spite of the weather, we often have 10-20 hammock
        > > campers plus an equal number of ground sleepers for New Year's
        Eve on
        > > Springer.
        > >
        > > The following link provides more details:
        > > http://www.speerhammocks.com/Assets/Articles/Springer08.htm
        > >
        > > Happy Hammocking....Ed
        > >
        > > Moderator, Hammock Camping List
        > > Author, Hammock Camping book
        > > Owner, Speer Hammocks, Inc
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        >
      • EHamilton
        Would putting my regular ThermaRest inside it be adequate, you think? I m only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in NH and ME. MacGyver
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 5, 2008
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          Would putting my regular ThermaRest inside it be adequate, you think? I'm only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in NH and ME.

          MacGyver




          ________________________________
          From: Mark Bayern plcmark@...

          Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be
          pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
          with a quilt hung under the hammock.









          On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM, EHamilton <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
          > Oh, brother, wouldn't I love that! Can't make it, though. We're going to be
          > in New Orleans.  Darn.
          >
          > I'm new to the group, looking for hammock info as I'm debating switching
          > from tenting/tarping to hammocking . I'm planning an AT thru-hike starting
          > April 1.
          >
          > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as in "Bridge
          > freezes before road surface"); enough inside space for changing clothes,
          > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out on a
          > thru-hike with a system I'm not familiar with, and unless I can borrow one
          > from someone to try it out, I don't want to spend money on one and then find
          > I prefer tenting/tarping.
          >
          > But six-or-eight-legged critters and rain can't crawl under its edges, and
          > you don't have to find a level site, big advantages over tarp, whose many
          > uses and light weight are big advantages over the tent, which keeps bugs,
          > rain, and curious glances out but weighs more and can only do one or at most
          > two tricks.
          >
          > Decisions, decisions...
          >
          > MacGyver
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: Ed Speer <ed@...>
          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 9:51:38 AM
          > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008
          >
          > I hope everyone is planning to attend our annual winter hammock campout
          > on Springer Mtn, GA.  Here in western NC, its now turned quite cold
          > with some nights in the teens, so cold weather has difinately arrived.
          > The Springer Mtn campout is often a real test for winterized hammocks,
          > although we've seen lows only in the 40s before.  If planning to join
          > us, you should keep a close eye on the weather, as the access road is
          > gravel & not maintained in the winter--snow or ice can easily make it
          > unpassable.  In spite of the weather, we often have 10-20 hammock
          > campers plus an equal number of ground sleepers for New Year's Eve on
          > Springer.
          >
          > The following link provides more details:
          > http://www.speerhammocks.com/Assets/Articles/Springer08.htm
          >
          > Happy Hammocking....Ed
          >
          > Moderator, Hammock Camping List
          > Author, Hammock Camping book
          > Owner, Speer Hammocks, Inc
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard Perlman
          I use a PeaPod with an extra quilt inside for temps into the teens. Love it! You definitely give up convenience and privacy for comfort. I switched 4 years
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 5, 2008
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            I use a PeaPod with an extra quilt inside for temps into the teens.
            Love it!

            You definitely give up convenience and privacy for comfort. I switched
            4 years ago and would only go to the ground if there was nothing to hang
            from.

            One thing gained, though, since I use an 8 x 10 tarp over my hammock, is
            a large covered area for several people to hang out under and cook under
            if it rains. This is something I did not have with my tent.

            Hang in there!

            Rich

            Mark Bayern wrote:
            > Good questions.
            >
            >
            >> My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as in "Bridge
            >> freezes before road surface")
            >>
            >
            > Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be
            > pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
            > with a quilt hung under the hammock.
            >
            >
            >> ... enough inside space for changing clothes,
            >> bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out on a
            >>
            >
            > I use a Hennesey, which is a bottom entry hammock so I can, when
            > necessary, stand up 'inside' the hammock to change. It leaves my lower
            > legs out in the open, but who cares? I'm normally in locations where
            > changing out in the open is not an issue. Bathing? never tried it in a
            > tent or a hammock.
            >
            >
            >> ... and whether I'd like it....
            >>
            >
            > Yep, that is the big question. For me once I tried the hammock I
            > decided to stay off the ground. This being the hammock camping group,
            > you'll probably find that most of use probably feel the same way.
            >
            >
            > Mark
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tom Frazier
            I ve got the orange lightweight thermarest 4L and I used it all last year in my claytor for mountain camping in the spring while snow was still on the ground
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
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              I've got the orange lightweight thermarest 4L and I used it all last year in my claytor for mountain camping in the spring while snow was still on the ground and slept completely comfy. Only issue I really had is the foot area of my pad is tapered and since I sleep on a slight diagonal the way I hang my feet tend to creep off the pad. I supplement my camp pad with some closed cell foam pads from REI and some of that reflectivix stuff (bubble-wrap covered with mylar sheeting) to achieve complete backside coverage and I like to hang my hammock low, inside my speer winter tarp, and roll out a length of that reflectivix stuff on the floor. Seems to really help keep the cold spots away for me.

              Eventually, I'll make myself a down underquilt so I can take the pads out of the equation. ;o)



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: EHamilton
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 12:04 PM
              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008


              Would putting my regular ThermaRest inside it be adequate, you think? I'm only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in NH and ME.

              MacGyver

              ________________________________
              From: Mark Bayern plcmark@...

              Yep, that is an issue. I use a pad inside the hammock, but it can be
              pain. Folks who are more serious about cold weather seem to do well
              with a quilt hung under the hammock.

              On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 10:07 AM, EHamilton <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
              > Oh, brother, wouldn't I love that! Can't make it, though. We're going to be
              > in New Orleans. Darn.
              >
              > I'm new to the group, looking for hammock info as I'm debating switching
              > from tenting/tarping to hammocking . I'm planning an AT thru-hike starting
              > April 1.
              >
              > My ponderings about hammocking: Cold backside in cold weather (as in "Bridge
              > freezes before road surface"); enough inside space for changing clothes,
              > bathing, etc; and whether I'd like it.... I don't want to set out on a
              > thru-hike with a system I'm not familiar with, and unless I can borrow one
              > from someone to try it out, I don't want to spend money on one and then find
              > I prefer tenting/tarping.
              >
              > But six-or-eight-legged critters and rain can't crawl under its edges, and
              > you don't have to find a level site, big advantages over tarp, whose many
              > uses and light weight are big advantages over the tent, which keeps bugs,
              > rain, and curious glances out but weighs more and can only do one or at most
              > two tricks.
              >
              > Decisions, decisions...
              >
              > MacGyver
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > From: Ed Speer <ed@...>
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 9:51:38 AM
              > Subject: [Hammock Camping] Springer Mtn Campout Dec 31, 2008
              >
              > I hope everyone is planning to attend our annual winter hammock campout
              > on Springer Mtn, GA. Here in western NC, its now turned quite cold
              > with some nights in the teens, so cold weather has difinately arrived.
              > The Springer Mtn campout is often a real test for winterized hammocks,
              > although we've seen lows only in the 40s before. If planning to join
              > us, you should keep a close eye on the weather, as the access road is
              > gravel & not maintained in the winter--snow or ice can easily make it
              > unpassable. In spite of the weather, we often have 10-20 hammock
              > campers plus an equal number of ground sleepers for New Year's Eve on
              > Springer.
              >
              > The following link provides more details:
              > http://www.speerhammocks.com/Assets/Articles/Springer08.htm
              >
              > Happy Hammocking....Ed
              >
              > Moderator, Hammock Camping List
              > Author, Hammock Camping book
              > Owner, Speer Hammocks, Inc
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave Womble
              ... think? I m only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in NH and ME. ... I don t think there is a regular ThermaRest, there is more to it than
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, EHamilton
                <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
                >
                > Would putting my regular ThermaRest inside it be adequate, you
                think? I'm only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in
                NH and ME.
                >
                > MacGyver
                >

                I don't think there is a regular ThermaRest, there is more to it than
                you might realize. There are quite a variety of ThermaRest pads and
                the amount of insulation varies between the various pads. Some might
                be enough by themselves while others might not... some are only
                adequate for summer temperatures, others are adequate for sleeping on
                snow, and many fall in between.

                Most people do find that they need something wider using pads in
                hammocks because of the wrapping nature of a hammock on your shoulders
                and how that tends to compress sleeping bags or quilts in that area.
                Well placed clothes, stuff sacks or a segmented pad extender help with
                that.

                Dave Womble
                aka Youngblood AT2000
                designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                WinterTarp
              • EHamilton
                I guess I meant, Would my ThermaRest work?   Skip the regular part. I  use a Women s ProLite 3. It s pretty narrow, I guess. How about a 22  wide
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
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                  I guess I meant, "Would my ThermaRest work?"  Skip the "regular" part. I  use a Women's ProLite 3. It's pretty narrow, I guess. How about a 22" wide closed-cell foam pad?

                  MacGyver




                  ________________________________
                  From: Dave Womble dpwomble@...

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, EHamilton
                  <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Would putting my regular ThermaRest inside it be adequate, you
                  think? I'm only expecting cold nights at the start and then again in
                  NH and ME.
                  >
                  > MacGyver
                  >

                  I don't think there is a regular ThermaRest, there is more to it than
                  you might realize.  There are quite a variety of ThermaRest pads and
                  the amount of insulation varies between the various pads.  Some might
                  be enough by themselves while others might not... some are only
                  adequate for summer temperatures, others are adequate for sleeping on
                  snow, and many fall in between.

                  Most people do find that they need something wider using pads in
                  hammocks because of the wrapping nature of a hammock on your shoulders
                  and how that tends to compress sleeping bags or quilts in that area.
                  Well placed clothes, stuff sacks or a segmented pad extender help with
                  that.

                  Dave Womble
                  aka Youngblood AT2000
                  designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                  WinterTarp


                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bruce W. Calkins
                  I find that a crossed pair of 3 foot by 2 foot 1/4 inch closed cell pads with a 3/4 length thermarest on top of that might get me to freezing. I have a few
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I find that a crossed pair of 3 foot by 2 foot 1/4 inch closed cell pads
                    with a 3/4 length thermarest on top of that might get me to freezing. I
                    have a few ideas for colder, but at this point, I have little time to spend
                    testing. I did try a twin sized mattress pad slung under the hammock last
                    fall with moderate success. Some trimming would help that one, especially
                    after the cat sharpened her claws on it last summer.



                    Bruce W.



                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    I guess I meant, "Would my ThermaRest work?" Skip the "regular" part. I use
                    a Women's ProLite 3. It's pretty narrow, I guess. How about a 22" wide
                    closed-cell foam pad?

                    MacGyver
                  • EHamilton
                    Kinda sounds like, if I want to try a hammock, I ll have my  husband send it to me with my summer sleeping bag... MacGyver ________________________________
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Kinda sounds like, if I want to try a hammock, I'll have my  husband send it to me with my summer sleeping bag...

                      MacGyver



                      ________________________________

                      From: Bruce W. Calkins blackwolfe@...
                      I find that a crossed pair of 3 foot by 2 foot 1/4 inch closed cell pads
                      with a 3/4 length thermarest on top of that might get me to freezing.  I
                      have a few ideas for colder, but at this point, I have little time to spend
                      testing.  I did try a twin sized mattress pad slung under the hammock last
                      fall with moderate success.  Some trimming would help that one, especially
                      after the cat sharpened her claws on it last summer.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Dave Womble
                      ... send it to me with my summer sleeping bag... ... You can get cold from underneath with pads sleeping in shelters or tents as well. The ProLite3 might not
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, EHamilton
                        <imagainst_the_wind@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Kinda sounds like, if I want to try a hammock, I'll have my  husband
                        send it to me with my summer sleeping bag...
                        >
                        > MacGyver
                        >

                        You can get cold from underneath with pads sleeping in shelters or
                        tents as well. The ProLite3 might not be enough by itself in the
                        cooler months even when used on the ground. That is basically
                        ThermaRest's lightest and less insulating self inflating mat. The
                        reason it is the lightest is because it doesn't have as much
                        insulation as say the ProLite4 does or even some of the other
                        thicker/heavier models. That said, a lot of AT thru hikers probably
                        get by with using it the whole way, but they might have some
                        uncomfortably cool nights because of it. I started out with their
                        comparable 1" model that predated the ProLite3 when I did my thru hike
                        but I was able to avoid most of the cold conditions... I wasn't too
                        proud to stay in motels and such when storms where about. Other folks
                        I hiked around/with weren't always so fortunate and they had some real
                        challenging nights at staying warm.

                        When you get cold sleeping outdoors, you need to try and pay attention
                        and see if you can localize where you are getting cold at. Sometimes
                        people blame their top side insulation when their issue is their
                        bottom side insulation. If you are cold because you don't have enough
                        bottom side insulation, you aren't going to be okay by just adding
                        more top side insulation. That holds true in shelters, tents, tarps,
                        hammocks, etc. What you can do in those situations is get cold on the
                        bottom and be too hot and sweating on top if you mismatch your
                        insulation too much. In other words, it wouldn't make much sense to
                        me to use a 0F sleeping bag with just a ProLite3 when a ProLite3 might
                        start being insufficient for 'you' at 30 to 40F when sleeping on the
                        ground. (I emphasised 'you' because individuals can vary on what keeps
                        them warm.)
                      • EHamilton
                        All good info. Actually I ve been thinking of getting a second pad anyway, just a $6 closed-cell from Wal-Mart, for the extra cushioning. Bones getting a
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          All good info. Actually I've been thinking of getting a second pad anyway, just a $6 closed-cell from Wal-Mart, for the extra cushioning. Bones getting a little creaky here, I ain't a young'un.

                          Now we're getting back into the advantages of a hammock.... no hard surfaces.

                          MacGyver




                          ________________________________
                          From: Dave Womble <dpwomble@...>
                          You can get cold from underneath with pads sleeping in shelters or
                          tents as well.  The ProLite3 might not be enough by itself in the
                          cooler months even when used on the ground.  That is basically
                          ThermaRest's lightest and less insulating self inflating mat.  The
                          reason it is the lightest is because it doesn't have as much
                          insulation as say the ProLite4 does or even some of the other
                          thicker/heavier models.  That said, a lot of AT thru hikers probably
                          get by with using it the whole way, but they might have some
                          uncomfortably cool nights because of it.  I started out with their
                          comparable 1" model that predated the ProLite3 when I did my thru hike
                          but I was able to avoid most of the cold conditions... I wasn't too
                          proud to stay in motels and such when storms where about.  Other folks
                          I hiked around/with weren't always so fortunate and they had some real
                          challenging nights at staying warm.

                          When you get cold sleeping outdoors, you need to try and pay attention
                          and see if you can localize where you are getting cold at.  Sometimes
                          people blame their top side insulation when their issue is their
                          bottom side insulation.  If you are cold because you don't have enough
                          bottom side insulation, you aren't going to be okay by just adding
                          more top side insulation.  That holds true in shelters, tents, tarps,
                          hammocks, etc.  What you can do in those situations is get cold on the
                          bottom and be too hot and sweating on top if you mismatch your
                          insulation too much.  In other words, it wouldn't make much sense to
                          me to use a 0F sleeping bag with just a ProLite3 when a ProLite3 might
                          start being insufficient for 'you' at 30 to 40F when sleeping on the
                          ground. (I emphasised 'you' because individuals can vary on what keeps
                          them warm.)


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bruce W. Calkins
                          That is what it took for my wife to get comfortable sleeping on the ground. Black Wolfe Bruce W. ... Actually I ve been thinking of getting a second pad
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 6, 2008
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                            That is what it took for my wife to get comfortable sleeping on the ground.

                            Black Wolfe
                            Bruce W.

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                            Actually I've been thinking of getting a second pad anyway, just a $6
                            closed-cell from Wal-Mart, for the extra cushioning.

                            MacGyver
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