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PeaPods top layer warmth rating and narrow hammocks

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  • billybob38801
    Hi Fellow Hangers, I am hoping to hear from PeaPod users, Ed and others, who have used the Pod with a narrow hammock. We are about to embark from hot humid MS
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 21 7:38 PM
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      Hi Fellow Hangers,
      I am hoping to hear from PeaPod users, Ed and others, who have used the
      Pod with a narrow hammock. We are about to embark from hot humid MS to
      the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming, where the lows might hit 15*F or a
      tad lower in the 2nd week of Sept, are very likely to be in the low 20s
      on at least some nights.

      Two of us have 900 FP PeaPods with 2 oz overfill, rated at 20*F on the
      bottom( conservatively, I believe). Of course, the rating on top is open
      to much debate. I think the official very conservative rating is 50*.
      However, in my personal experience in the Speer hammock, I have been
      fine in the 40s with just cotton jeans and shirt. Wearing long johns and
      20 ozs worth of Polarguard jacket and pants, I was fine one night into
      the mid to high 20s, even with the top gap/air space which is normally
      seen in the wider Speer hammock. Wearing the same clothes plus an old
      summer weight quallofil bag as a top quilt ( about 1 or 1.5" loft on
      top- it was either rated 40 or 50* new 25 years ago) plus a space
      blanket below in the PeaPod, I was fine one night at 10*F.

      So my question is about the top rating. With the wide and deep Speer
      hammock, the Pod's top is pulled up quite a few inches, leaving a big
      gap that results in the top layer rating being much less than the bottom
      ( 50* vs 20*). Hence the need for lofty clothing and/or quilts below 40.
      But we have some hammocks that are only 4 ft wide, and when using the
      Pod with these, not only does the Pod fit perfectly on the bottom, with
      full back contact and no loft compression, but the top Pod layer lays
      down almost, or completely, on top of me just like when using a sleeping
      bag on the ground or a top quilt or bag in the hammock. So then I am
      laying there with a good 2.5" loft above me, pretty much in contact with
      my body in most places, or very close to it. So I am trying to figure
      out if I will need any thing more than my PG hooded top and bottom, and
      if I will need a light top quilt as is normally recommended. It seems to
      me like it is significantly warmer on top this way than it is with a
      wider hammock.

      So, anybody here with any winter experience with the pod and a narrow
      hammock? Or Ed, have you had feed back from any one who has used the
      PeaPods in this fashion, so that they didn't have a big air gap over
      them? I'm sure the PeaPod would have a significantly warmer top rating
      used this way, I just have no idea how much, and ran out of winter
      before I could test it. If I end up with 2.5"+ loft on top of me, mostly
      in contact with my body, then would that be close to the rating of an
      equivalent bag with 2.5" loft, about 20*F( with the normal caveat of
      many variables and individual tolerance) with long johns? Or maybe 30*f?
      Or am I still going to need a top quilt? Of course, I will also have my
      lofty, hooded PG clothing, plus neck gators, balaclavas, or I may even
      take a separate thick down Marmot hood.

      I wish I had had time to test this combo before winter ended, but I
      didn't.

      What do y'all think?
      Bill
    • Ed Speer
      Bill, like you indicated, people have widely differing metabolisms and this alone will greatly affect how warm or cold each one sleeps with any given hammock
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 22 11:36 AM
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        Bill, like you indicated, people have widely differing metabolisms and this
        alone will greatly affect how warm or cold each one sleeps with any given
        hammock setup. My usual advice is to be sure & test your particular setup
        at home before heading to the back country—so it’s too bad you ran out of
        winter before your big trip. However, from your past experience I suspect
        you will be comfortable with your narrow hammock, Speer PeaPod, PC
        top/bottom, & your other items that could be placed into service if need be:
        sleeping pad, space blanket, extra clothes, long johns, rain gear, pack
        cover, etc. Remember, you often have the option of using leaves from the
        ground as well—this has worked surprisingly well for me in the past! If all
        else fails and you get caught in unexpected cold weather, I recommend simply
        sleeping on the ground until warmer weather returns—I always carry a
        lightweight sleeping pad when camping in unknown mountains with uncertain
        weather just for this reason—I use a ¾ length ¼” CCF pad; not the best for
        ground sleeping, but enough to get by with; of course, I can also use this
        for extra insulation in the PeaPod as well.



        Remember in cold weather to eat well just before bed to fuel the furnace.
        And that wearing your rain gear over your long johns in the hammock can give
        added warmth even at the risk of trapped condensation—this should also be
        tested at home first before heading to the backcountry.



        I have heard from a few others who use the Speer PeaPod with 4-ft wide
        hammocks---like you, they report less air dead space above their body, thus
        needing less top insulation.



        All the best on your trip—I’m jealous…..Ed



        Moderator, Hammock Camping List

        Co-Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc

        Author, Hammock Camping book











        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of billybob38801
        Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:39 PM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM][Hammock Camping] PeaPods top layer warmth rating and narrow
        hammocks



        Hi Fellow Hangers,
        I am hoping to hear from PeaPod users, Ed and others, who have used the
        Pod with a narrow hammock. We are about to embark from hot humid MS to
        the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming, where the lows might hit 15*F or a
        tad lower in the 2nd week of Sept, are very likely to be in the low 20s
        on at least some nights.

        Two of us have 900 FP PeaPods with 2 oz overfill, rated at 20*F on the
        bottom( conservatively, I believe). Of course, the rating on top is open
        to much debate. I think the official very conservative rating is 50*.
        However, in my personal experience in the Speer hammock, I have been
        fine in the 40s with just cotton jeans and shirt. Wearing long johns and
        20 ozs worth of Polarguard jacket and pants, I was fine one night into
        the mid to high 20s, even with the top gap/air space which is normally
        seen in the wider Speer hammock. Wearing the same clothes plus an old
        summer weight quallofil bag as a top quilt ( about 1 or 1.5" loft on
        top- it was either rated 40 or 50* new 25 years ago) plus a space
        blanket below in the PeaPod, I was fine one night at 10*F.

        So my question is about the top rating. With the wide and deep Speer
        hammock, the Pod's top is pulled up quite a few inches, leaving a big
        gap that results in the top layer rating being much less than the bottom
        ( 50* vs 20*). Hence the need for lofty clothing and/or quilts below 40.
        But we have some hammocks that are only 4 ft wide, and when using the
        Pod with these, not only does the Pod fit perfectly on the bottom, with
        full back contact and no loft compression, but the top Pod layer lays
        down almost, or completely, on top of me just like when using a sleeping
        bag on the ground or a top quilt or bag in the hammock. So then I am
        laying there with a good 2.5" loft above me, pretty much in contact with
        my body in most places, or very close to it. So I am trying to figure
        out if I will need any thing more than my PG hooded top and bottom, and
        if I will need a light top quilt as is normally recommended. It seems to
        me like it is significantly warmer on top this way than it is with a
        wider hammock.

        So, anybody here with any winter experience with the pod and a narrow
        hammock? Or Ed, have you had feed back from any one who has used the
        PeaPods in this fashion, so that they didn't have a big air gap over
        them? I'm sure the PeaPod would have a significantly warmer top rating
        used this way, I just have no idea how much, and ran out of winter
        before I could test it. If I end up with 2.5"+ loft on top of me, mostly
        in contact with my body, then would that be close to the rating of an
        equivalent bag with 2.5" loft, about 20*F( with the normal caveat of
        many variables and individual tolerance) with long johns? Or maybe 30*f?
        Or am I still going to need a top quilt? Of course, I will also have my
        lofty, hooded PG clothing, plus neck gators, balaclavas, or I may even
        take a separate thick down Marmot hood.

        I wish I had had time to test this combo before winter ended, but I
        didn't.

        What do y'all think?
        Bill





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • billybob38801
        Thanks for the response, Ed. It sounds like I am on the right track. It only makes sense to me that if I could get by with my PG and other clothing and the
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 22 12:58 PM
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          Thanks for the response, Ed. It sounds like I am on the right track.
          It only makes sense to me that if I could get by with my PG and other
          clothing and the PeaPod in the Speer hammock, in the mid 20s- with the
          pod lifted well off my body, that I would be at least 10 or more
          degrees warmer with the pod top laying, for the most part, right down
          on my face and body. I just rigged it up today for the first time in
          many months, and it was great. I had a 2 or 3" thick layer of down
          laying right on my face and chest ( just barely contacting me), with a
          small breathing hole. It felt very similar to cinching things down in
          a large mummy bag. Needless to say, I could only stay that way for a
          few minutes, due to the heat.
          Bill

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <ed@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bill, like you indicated, people have widely differing metabolisms
          and this
          > alone will greatly affect how warm or cold each one sleeps with any
          given
          > hammock setup. My usual advice is to be sure & test your particular
          setup
          > at home before heading to the back country—so it's too bad you ran
          out of
          > winter before your big trip. However, from your past experience I
          suspect
          > you will be comfortable with your narrow hammock, Speer PeaPod, PC
          > top/bottom, & your other items that could be placed into service if
          need be:
          > sleeping pad, space blanket, extra clothes, long johns, rain gear, pack
          > cover, etc. Remember, you often have the option of using leaves
          from the
          > ground as well—this has worked surprisingly well for me in the past!
          If all
          > else fails and you get caught in unexpected cold weather, I
          recommend simply
          > sleeping on the ground until warmer weather returns—I always carry a
          > lightweight sleeping pad when camping in unknown mountains with
          uncertain
          > weather just for this reason—I use a ¾ length ¼" CCF pad; not the
          best for
          > ground sleeping, but enough to get by with; of course, I can also
          use this
          > for extra insulation in the PeaPod as well.
          >
          >
          >
          > Remember in cold weather to eat well just before bed to fuel the
          furnace.
          > And that wearing your rain gear over your long johns in the hammock
          can give
          > added warmth even at the risk of trapped condensation—this should
          also be
          > tested at home first before heading to the backcountry.
          >
          >
          >
          > I have heard from a few others who use the Speer PeaPod with 4-ft wide
          > hammocks---like you, they report less air dead space above their
          body, thus
          > needing less top insulation.
          >
          >
          >
          > All the best on your trip—I'm jealous…..Ed
          >
          >
          >
          > Moderator, Hammock Camping List
          >
          > Co-Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc
          >
          > Author, Hammock Camping book
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of billybob38801
          > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:39 PM
          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [SPAM][Hammock Camping] PeaPods top layer warmth rating and
          narrow
          > hammocks
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Fellow Hangers,
          > I am hoping to hear from PeaPod users, Ed and others, who have used the
          > Pod with a narrow hammock. We are about to embark from hot humid MS to
          > the Wind River Mountains of Wyoming, where the lows might hit 15*F or a
          > tad lower in the 2nd week of Sept, are very likely to be in the low 20s
          > on at least some nights.
          >
          > Two of us have 900 FP PeaPods with 2 oz overfill, rated at 20*F on the
          > bottom( conservatively, I believe). Of course, the rating on top is open
          > to much debate. I think the official very conservative rating is 50*.
          > However, in my personal experience in the Speer hammock, I have been
          > fine in the 40s with just cotton jeans and shirt. Wearing long johns and
          > 20 ozs worth of Polarguard jacket and pants, I was fine one night into
          > the mid to high 20s, even with the top gap/air space which is normally
          > seen in the wider Speer hammock. Wearing the same clothes plus an old
          > summer weight quallofil bag as a top quilt ( about 1 or 1.5" loft on
          > top- it was either rated 40 or 50* new 25 years ago) plus a space
          > blanket below in the PeaPod, I was fine one night at 10*F.
          >
          > So my question is about the top rating. With the wide and deep Speer
          > hammock, the Pod's top is pulled up quite a few inches, leaving a big
          > gap that results in the top layer rating being much less than the bottom
          > ( 50* vs 20*). Hence the need for lofty clothing and/or quilts below 40.
          > But we have some hammocks that are only 4 ft wide, and when using the
          > Pod with these, not only does the Pod fit perfectly on the bottom, with
          > full back contact and no loft compression, but the top Pod layer lays
          > down almost, or completely, on top of me just like when using a sleeping
          > bag on the ground or a top quilt or bag in the hammock. So then I am
          > laying there with a good 2.5" loft above me, pretty much in contact with
          > my body in most places, or very close to it. So I am trying to figure
          > out if I will need any thing more than my PG hooded top and bottom, and
          > if I will need a light top quilt as is normally recommended. It seems to
          > me like it is significantly warmer on top this way than it is with a
          > wider hammock.
          >
          > So, anybody here with any winter experience with the pod and a narrow
          > hammock? Or Ed, have you had feed back from any one who has used the
          > PeaPods in this fashion, so that they didn't have a big air gap over
          > them? I'm sure the PeaPod would have a significantly warmer top rating
          > used this way, I just have no idea how much, and ran out of winter
          > before I could test it. If I end up with 2.5"+ loft on top of me, mostly
          > in contact with my body, then would that be close to the rating of an
          > equivalent bag with 2.5" loft, about 20*F( with the normal caveat of
          > many variables and individual tolerance) with long johns? Or maybe 30*f?
          > Or am I still going to need a top quilt? Of course, I will also have my
          > lofty, hooded PG clothing, plus neck gators, balaclavas, or I may even
          > take a separate thick down Marmot hood.
          >
          > I wish I had had time to test this combo before winter ended, but I
          > didn't.
          >
          > What do y'all think?
          > Bill
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • ptoddf
          Hi Bill, I use both HH and Ed s PeaPod on his hammock. I had extra fill put in beyond the 2 oz overfill to make the top fully warm. I think I got 4 oz extra
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 23 8:56 AM
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            Hi Bill,

            I use both HH and Ed's PeaPod on his hammock. I had extra fill put in
            beyond the 2 oz overfill to make the top fully warm. I think I got 4
            oz extra beyond the 2 oz. With this, I'm plenty warm period. I don't
            have a top quilt and don't want one. What I do is wear a thin layer
            of clothing, usually just one size too large cheap silk long johns,
            top and bottom, from Campmor. This skin layer makes all the
            difference. The air space above me is now not a problem, rather it is
            a benefit. It's like being in a down tent, a far different experience
            than being in a sleeping bag. Even in cold weather I have to have
            some venting, which is good.

            I will also use light gloves, sleeping socks, maybe a light beanie
            type hat -- the same stuff I was using in sleeping bags on the
            ground. But it is the skin layer that makes any slight air movement
            in the air space above and around me not a problem. I like this much
            better than a constrictive sleeping bag. To me, it's a new
            generation, a better way.

            Of course I could add something like my Frogg Toggs breathable
            rainwear if it was really bitter, snd/or my Montbell down liner wear,
            long sleeve top and bottom. I've never had to do this -- these are my
            emergency deep freeze backup, and so are dual use items.

            I hardly use my HH anymore. I'm thinking about ripping out the
            mosquito net so I can try my PeaPod on it below the ridge line. The
            HH is really a tropical, buggy, warmer weather item IMO. It's not fun
            to use in cold. That's the PeaPod's forte. My favorite piece of gear.

            Best, Todd F.
          • billybob38801
            Thanks, Todd, for that really informative response. I agree, even the regular PeaPod with the 2 oz overfill is probably my favorite piece of gear. Did you have
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 23 9:35 AM
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              Thanks, Todd, for that really informative response. I agree, even the
              regular PeaPod with the 2 oz overfill is probably my favorite piece of
              gear. Did you have the 4 ozs added to just the top or added evenly all
              around?

              What kind of temps have you dealt with?

              You know, I don't think I have yet heard from one person who was cold
              with a PeaPod at any where within the rated temps.
              Bill

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ptoddf" <ptoddf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Bill,
              >
              > I use both HH and Ed's PeaPod on his hammock. I had extra fill put in
              > beyond the 2 oz overfill to make the top fully warm. I think I got 4
              > oz extra beyond the 2 oz. With this, I'm plenty warm period. I don't
              > have a top quilt and don't want one. What I do is wear a thin layer
              > of clothing, usually just one size too large cheap silk long johns,
              > top and bottom, from Campmor. This skin layer makes all the
              > difference. The air space above me is now not a problem, rather it is
              > a benefit. It's like being in a down tent, a far different experience
              > than being in a sleeping bag. Even in cold weather I have to have
              > some venting, which is good.
              >
              > I will also use light gloves, sleeping socks, maybe a light beanie
              > type hat -- the same stuff I was using in sleeping bags on the
              > ground. But it is the skin layer that makes any slight air movement
              > in the air space above and around me not a problem. I like this much
              > better than a constrictive sleeping bag. To me, it's a new
              > generation, a better way.
              >
              > Of course I could add something like my Frogg Toggs breathable
              > rainwear if it was really bitter, snd/or my Montbell down liner wear,
              > long sleeve top and bottom. I've never had to do this -- these are my
              > emergency deep freeze backup, and so are dual use items.
              >
              > I hardly use my HH anymore. I'm thinking about ripping out the
              > mosquito net so I can try my PeaPod on it below the ridge line. The
              > HH is really a tropical, buggy, warmer weather item IMO. It's not fun
              > to use in cold. That's the PeaPod's forte. My favorite piece of gear.
              >
              > Best, Todd F.
              >
            • C C Wayah
              ....It s like being in a down tent, a far different experience than being in a sleeping bag. Even in cold weather I have to have some venting, which is
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 23 1:38 PM
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                ....It's like being in a down tent, a far different experience
                than being in a sleeping bag. Even in cold weather I have to have some
                venting, which is good.........

                Todd F

                Man you have a down tent?
                Please share were you got this and some information about it as in is it
                still avaible somewhere.
                What does it look life how big is it etc.

                Rogene
              • ptoddf
                ... the ... of ... all ... Bill, You re welcome. I have an earlier Pod, so not sure how the current ones are made, but when I first got mine, down would filter
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 24 1:42 PM
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "billybob38801"
                  <billybob38801@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks, Todd, for that really informative response. I agree, even
                  the
                  >regular PeaPod with the 2 oz overfill is probably my favorite piece
                  of
                  > gear. Did you have the 4 ozs added to just the top or added evenly
                  all
                  > around?


                  Bill,

                  You're welcome. I have an earlier Pod, so not sure how the current
                  ones are made, but when I first got mine, down would filter down the
                  sides in the tubes from the top and I could see light coming through
                  above in spots when I was inside. So I had Ed overstuff it and that
                  solved it. I think the down tubes are continuous on mine, maybe not
                  on what he's making now. Sure it's heavier than before, but I'm not
                  carrying a down top quilt either. (Total overfill from standard was 6
                  ounces.)

                  I haven't used the Pod in deep winter yet, but I will do so with
                  confidence that it will work as needed. I've been well below
                  freezing, but not into the lowest twenties or teens yet. The amazing
                  thing is that the temperature range of the Pod is IMO much greater
                  (with comfort the factor) than a sleeping bag. My overstuffed Pod
                  can be partially vented or left completely open in warm weather, and
                  closed up almost completely for those bitterly cold high altitude
                  nights. All this with one piece of gear. That's flexibility, with
                  enough range to cover a rare deep freeze storm. I rely on this -- my
                  sleeping gear is my cold weather survival gear.

                  Someone asked if I had a down tent. The PeaPod is LIKE a down tent is
                  what I said. With air space around you and above you it is LIKE a
                  down tube tent. Point is, this is a VERY different experience than
                  what we're used to with sleeping bags lying right on top of you with
                  little or no air space. Instead, I found the idea that any air space
                  is a bad thing to be untrue, as I tried to explain in my previous
                  post.

                  Once I got over the shock that light sleeping wear (like my favorite,
                  the cheap silk long johns I mentioned) corrects the skin coolness
                  from air space, I got to really like and appreciate it. The air is
                  warm enough, it's the convection air currents that can be
                  uncomfortable on bare skin. The air space in the Pod makes fine
                  tuning for comfort much easier and the temperature inside more even.
                  I mean, a sleeping bag this down heavy would be an oven in anything
                  other than quite cold weather. Unless you were using it as a
                  mattress. Then it gets colder and when you pull it around you or
                  close it up, it's way too hot. I don't like being constricted like a
                  mummy either. Hope my POV is clearer now.

                  Best, Todd F.
                • C C Wayah
                  ... I asked becuse I know someone who actualy has a down tent but I have never seen it. The maker went out of business. . Sorry I didn t catch the LIKE.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 25 2:14 PM
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                    >Someone asked if I had a down tent.
                    I asked becuse I know someone who actualy has a down tent but I have never
                    seen it. The maker went out of business. . Sorry I didn't catch the LIKE.
                    Rogene
                  • billybob38801
                    You know, I have used my Pea Pod when lows were in the high 60s or about 70, and did OK. If I had tried to use a down bag of similar thickness, I would have
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 26 7:33 PM
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                      You know, I have used my Pea Pod when lows were in the high 60s or
                      about 70, and did OK. If I had tried to use a down bag of similar
                      thickness, I would have burned up. I just hung it loose so that
                      there was a decent gap below me, and started out with it closed only
                      around my feet. As the night wore on and cooled off slightly and the
                      wind picked up, I just fastened it loosely above me, leaving it
                      gapping open in several spots. It was just fine. Admittedly it would
                      be a bit heavy to take on the trail at these temps, but sometimes
                      temps can be quite cold one night and much warmer the next. It just
                      shows what is probably about the greatest versatility available among
                      "bags".

                      Another thing I have found works good, compared to the mummy bags I
                      often use, is to "rotate" the PeaPod when I shift to my side.
                      Sometimes when I have a hood cinched down, if I turn to my side by
                      rotating in the bag, (which is easier than turning the whole bag with
                      your arms inside) then my head is not positioned right in the hood
                      opening.Plus, some bags are not as warm on the bottom, and if they are
                      down,it is flat.

                      So if you turn by rotating the whole bag, your back might be cold, at
                      least for a little while until the down lofts back up. But I have
                      noticed that I can turn to my side in the Pod, then rotate the entire
                      Pod around the hammock, so that the Velcro is to the side, and a small
                      breathing hole is right in front of my face, if desired. All of the
                      down remains fully lofted and warm. That is hard to beat.

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "ptoddf" <ptoddf@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com.....................
                      > I mean, a sleeping bag this down heavy would be an oven in anything
                      > other than quite cold weather. Unless you were using it as a
                      > mattress. Then it gets colder and when you pull it around you or
                      > close it up, it's way too hot. I don't like being constricted like a
                      > mummy either. Hope my POV is clearer now.
                      >
                      > Best, Todd F.
                      >
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