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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Orange trash bags.

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  • Linda Ellis
    ... From: Mark A. Andrews N4FH@N4FH.com Sometimes being highly visible is not a good thing. Sometimes others don t want to see you and sometimes you don t want
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Mark A. Andrews N4FH@...

      Sometimes being highly visible is not a good thing. Sometimes others
      don't want to see you and sometimes you don't want to be seen.
      AND SOMETIMES YOU VERY MUCH WANT TO BE SEEN! FYI, we have the $1.oo poncho - several of them, in fact. We also have better nylon ponchos which accommodate backpacks under them and can be used as a ground cover or a rainfly. All of these things have their place.
      So do orange trash bags. Please go back and carefully read this discussion. I have pointed out that, IN AN EMERGENCY, an orange trash bag can be used to signal for help! Don't the Scouts teach you to be prepared for emergencies? Don't they teach to have more than one way to do signal? One of the "how to survive" videos we watched went into great detail about the value of that orange trash bag. They demonstrated its use as an EMERGENCY rainfly: an EMERGENCY way to collect water; and EMERGENCY rain poncho; and two ways to use it to signal in the event of an EMERGENCY.
      BTW, they also pointed out that you should carry the bare essentials on your body, not in your pack, no matter what. Packs fall into ravines, or can be stolen or carted off by animals. Pockets stuffed with some lengths of rope, a pocketknife, basic first aid kit, an energy bar or two, and a multipurpose garbage bag can mean the difference between life and death.
      Do you carry a full pack with your hammock, rainfly, a ground tarp, a rain cover for your gear bag, your mess kit, your first aid kit, your machete, shovel, and axe, your four-inch fixed-blade knife AND your compact folding knife when you leave your set camp for a morning walk?
      Of course not. But you should always have some basics with you. There are numerous books and videos on the subject of what to carry ALL THE TIME. There are also numerous books on what has happened to people who went out unprepared. Though I don't remember where it was, there was a Scout troop that hiked in a short distance for one of their campouts - not a big deal. One Scout got lost on the way back to the vehicles, and was not found for weeks.
      Last year, we took two hikes that convinced us to always carry basic supplies. One was about a one-hour hike on a wide, mulched trail in a nearby State Park. Both my husband and I have a really good inate sense of direction, but when we came out the trail at the other end, we realized that our "sense" was off - we weren't where we thought we would be.
      A few months later, different State Park, different trail. Short leg into the main trail. Map showed a simple loop. Picture a "Q" and you have a good idea what the map looked like. But, there was another trail that veered off in another direction BEFORE we hit the exit leg. Made the expected left turn, and ended up coming out in a different parking lot, some distance from our vehicle.
      That second trail also wasn't so well-groomed, with lots of rough terrain and fallen branches. It would have been very easy to twist or break an ankle, if we weren't concentrating.
      My sister-in-law, who is an avid hiker and camper (trained for 18 months to do the Grand Canyon floor hike) went out with friends last summer, on a hike that was expected to take a couple of hours. Though they were all experienced hikers and had a map, they somehow lost the trail, and it took all day to return to their camp. Monica started taking inventory of the gear they had between them, andrealized that over the years she has gotten lax in her prep. She knew that if one of them had an accident, they were in serious trouble.
      In these cases, I WANT to be VERY VISIBLE. Even though we don't hike in designated hunting areas, I also want to be VERY VISIBLE during hunting season, as it's my opinion that one shouldn't "expect" everyone else to be as obedient about rules as we try to be.
      Maybe you should counsel your troop that sometimes it's good to blend into the environment, but there are sure times when you want to stick out as big and visible as possible - and you should be prepared at all times for either situation. That orange trash bag does that, don't you think? You can wear all the khaki and camo that you want, to blend in as long as the situation is "normal." A plastic garbage bag or two tucked into a pocket is not visible when it's not in use, but becomes very visible when you need to be seen! And if you never need it for an EMERGENCY, it's still a garbage bag!

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    • Rosaleen Sullivan
      Re: Orange trash bags. Posted by: thomassen_ralph thomassen_ralph@yahoo.com thomassen_ralph Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:35 pm ((PDT)) Hey, Ralph- Before you
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
        Re: Orange trash bags.
        Posted by: "thomassen_ralph" thomassen_ralph@... thomassen_ralph
        Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:35 pm ((PDT))

        Hey, Ralph-

        Before you make plans to have your Scouts carry hatchets, check the "Guide
        to Safe Scouting" and instructions for using wood tools. (Was "Totenship" a
        card kids earned?) It's been quite a few years, but I think it was against
        policy for my Scouts to use hatchets, and small axes had to be used in
        well-prescribed circumstances. We were encouraged to stick with saws, and
        used a small axe or maybe a hatchet only for splitting wood using the
        "contact method." A (folding) Sven saw wasn't too bad to carry, especially
        when weight could be divvied up. Maintainers that come upon seem to use
        saws, and nippers quite a bit.

        Rosaleen
        (SNIP)
        Has anyone experience with light weight shovels, bow saws, and/or
        hatchets. We have to do a conservation/trail improvement project on
        our 50 miles hike to earn the badge. This is not something a hiker
        would normally carry, but we will have to tote it.
        Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
        Troop 14 Griffin, GA
      • eg_wilks
        Regarding wood cutting tools for backpacking. I used to carry a type of machete that was used to cut sugar cane in Central America. It had a short wide
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
          Regarding wood cutting tools for backpacking. I used to carry a type
          of machete that was used to cut sugar cane in Central America. It
          had a short wide blade, squared-off end and a type of hook on the
          back. That machete was made by Collins somewhere in Central America
          and would do everything from pull dutch ovens from the fire (the
          hook, had no edge on it), flip pancakes like a spatula (was wide
          enough) and cut just about any small brush or sticks you'd need.
          That thing had good steel and would keep an edge.

          More recently I carry a type of brush hook made by Gerber. It has
          kind of a hawk-bill shape and a long handle. I covered the handle in
          suede so it won't slip in my hands. The brush hook has a stainless
          blade and will really keep an edge. I hone it on a buffing wheel
          with honing abrasive. Puts a razor edge with a mirror sheen on it.
          The brush hook is lighter than a machete and easier to carry. It's
          not sold with a very good sheath so I made one out of heavy leather.

          Saws: I like the small folding saw made by Felco. It's made with a
          Japanese type blade that cuts on the pull stroke. Very sharp in
          stainless steel. I've used mine for several years and it will still
          outcut any bowsaw. It folds like a pocketknife, probably about 10
          inches long and will fit in your pocket with ease. Has a locking
          blade. Very light as well. It's a cuttin' machine. Enjoy.

          EW

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Frazier" <wildewudu@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Personally, I really don't see that much difference between
          foldable saws. If you look at a poorly made one, you should be able
          to see the flaws and, listening to your inner voice, don't purchase
          it. Though, I've owned many inexpensive, and some from some of the
          more reputable companies (like Gerber's saw), folding saws and
          they've all worked like they were supposed to.
          >
          > In terms of saws, though, I'd like to try one of those folding
          frame-saws as it seems to me that they would last longer, especially
          considering that I can buy extra blades to replace broken or dull
          blades...something that's harder, depending upon model, to do with
          the usual folding saw.
          >
          > Shovels: I got a Gerber Gorge shovel and it's "OK", but it really
          depends upon what you want to do with it. Personally, I think it's
          really heavy (about 24oz.)...it's certainly one of the more heavier
          and dense things in my pack. I got it for the built-in tent stake
          hammer as well as the shovel part. It was useful for digging into a
          snow bank and a few other minor stuff; the handle actually popped off
          a few times. If I had to do it again, and considering how heavy this
          small one was, I'd get the bigger Gerber shovel they offer.
          >
          > I used to bring hatchets with me, but have since adopted the use of
          Coldsteel's kukri machete. It's lighter and, with the edge sharpened
          and the black epoxy coating removed (my preference for reduced
          cutting resistance) more efficient than any hatchet or light axe I've
          used. After the initial sharpening (removal of the dull factory
          edge), I've only had to sharpen it once or twice in the last year
          that I've been using it regularly.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Ralph Oborn
          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:11 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Orange trash bags.
          >
          >
          > Has anyone experience with light weight shovels, bow saws, and/or
          > hatchets. We have to do a conservation/trail improvement project
          on
          > our 50 miles hike to earn the badge. This is not something a hiker
          > would normally carry, but we will have to tote it.
          > Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
          > Troop 14 Griffin, GA
          >
          > Do the project near one end or the other of the hike. Or
          rendevous with a
          > supply truck at the project site.
          > Limited carry.
          > I usually use a sheet rock saw as a light weight easy to carry
          saw.
          > Slip the blade into a chunk of old garden hose.
          >
          > Ralph
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----------
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date:
          4/19/2008 11:31 AM
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Steve
          From a practical point of view, saws will be more effective than axes that are usually not sharp enough. Without proper training and maintenance, axes and
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
            From a practical point of view, saws will be more effective than axes
            that are usually not sharp enough. Without proper training and
            maintenance, axes and machetes are more trouble than they're worth.
            Which is not to say that Scouts shouldn't be trained, and encouraged
            to use axes. It is my belief that a properly maintained and used
            hand axe is the only edged tool that you need in the woods. It'll do
            everything, including shave your face (if you sharpen it right) that
            you need. BUT, very few people maintain, or use these tools right.

            The Totin' Chip badge used to be required in my troop before you
            could take an axe, or even a pocket knife on a campout. Of course,
            this assumes the ScoutMaster or other instructor knows what he's
            doing in terms of sharpening, storing, carrying and using these
            potentially dangerous tools. And when to use them. Like not on
            standing trees, for instance. Even given training by real experts
            (one of my ScoutMasters was a lumberjack, with great respect for
            tools) I've got some scars on my hands that I got 45 years ago :)

            Do be careful. Err on the side of caution.

            Steve B.
            Maryland
          • Tom Frazier
            I might not be your typical camper , in terms of being in the woods. I m very comfy there, considering I ve spent about 15 years learning and practicing
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
              I might not be your typical "camper", in terms of being in the woods. I'm very comfy there, considering I've spent about 15 years learning and practicing primitive survival skills (and have been runing the 'primitive' yahoo group for around 8 years now). I really don't need any equipment, as I carried only a swiss army knife and a mag. fire starter for many years before I started to collect "backpacking" gear.

              In the last five years, I've become more comfort oriented and explored (by using) the typical "backpacking" equipment (as opposed to heavier "car camping equipment). I used a frame pack (multi-use for me, since I can use it to haul out meat from sucessful hunts too) and most of the gear I'm still using. Now that I've discovered hammock camping, I've been able to literally shave pounds off my weight (from a camp-comfy 50 pounds to a current 14 pound UL weight) and I changed the kind of pack I'm using. It's a good middle ground for me so far.

              The places I like to camp at are very typically off the beaten path. I tend to get into an area as far as I can, park my vehicle, then seek out deer trails to follow into the field and brush. Where I'm at, I have about 100k acres of relatively unknown backcountry (meaning, only determined individuals go very far into it) to play around in.

              I usually do bring grocery bags with me (I have so many saved up!)...not necessarily for trash, but for things like dirty/sweaty clothes, to tie my shoes up for the night, etc. If I do have some trash, it's very, very little. I've been at this for over 15 years now and I still haven't had enough trash to fill more than just one typical grocery bag---and this is even when I've camped with my family (two kids and my wife) and my brother. I bring either freeze-dried camper MRE-style meals, or simple dehydrated meals that I have to prep. and cook myself.

              As to cutting down toothbrushes...I first read about that in Jardine's UL camping book, but thus far the only handle I've cut is the handle to my rubber spatula, simply because it didn't fit inside my MSR 2L Titan.

              I like this raincover precisely for it's multipurpose design. I personally don't use any gravity water filter system (I use a heavy, but longer lasting, MSR ceramic filter), but this will work great as a raincover for my pack in the spring and fall (the two times where the rain is nearly constant here), and as a gear hammock to store my stuff off the ground (I'm not happy about getting dirt or mud on my pack! Eventually, it goes on my back again!)...






              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Linda Ellis
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Orange trash bags.


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Tom Frazier wildewudu@...
              Tothewoods has plans/info. on a raincover that can also be used as a tarp, a gear hammock, a rain collector, water bag, etc.
              http://www.tothewoo ds.net/HomemadeG earPackCoverGear Hammock.html
              Eliminates having to bring a limited-use (and easy to puncture) plastic bag.

              Tom, don't you carry garbage bags to remove your waste? Certainly, one can take along as much gear as you wish to carry, but pack weight is always an issue. I've seen people cut off half the handle of their toothbrush to save weight!
              In my opinion, nobody should take off for even a morning hike without a trash bag or two on their person. It's useful for trash collection, certainly, but in an emergency, we should all remember the usefulness of every basic item we carry for "non-traditional" purposes. If we think carefully about the multiple ways each item, we can reduce our pack weight considerably.Recent Activity
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            • Mark A. Andrews
              Wow! I didn t mean to generate hostility. Nowhere did I say that you shouldn t carry an orange trash bag. What I said (if you care to re-read the first line of
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                Wow! I didn't mean to generate hostility.

                Nowhere did I say that you shouldn't carry an orange trash bag. What I
                said (if you care to re-read the first line of my post) is that you
                should not use it as part of your everyday gear. My interpretation of
                your post was that you advocated using it for a tent fly and a poncho
                "in a pinch". To me, that is not an emergency situtation, but rather an
                inconvenience.

                A apologize that I didn't make myself more clear. My fault.

                Last post, I promise.

                Mark

                Linda Ellis wrote:
                > ----- Original Message ----
                > From: Mark A. Andrews N4FH@...
                >
                > Sometimes being highly visible is not a good thing. Sometimes others
                > don't want to see you and sometimes you don't want to be seen.
                > AND SOMETIMES YOU VERY MUCH WANT TO BE SEEN! FYI, we have the $1.oo poncho - several of them, in fact. We also have better nylon ponchos which accommodate backpacks under them and can be used as a ground cover or a rainfly. All of these things have their place.
                >
              • Richard Perlman
                ... My troop s leaders all agree. As a result, we don t use axes. But 3 of us do agree on hammocks! :-) Rich [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                  Steve wrote regarding the Boy Scout use of axes:
                  > Do be careful. Err on the side of caution.
                  My troop's leaders all agree. As a result, we don't use axes.

                  But 3 of us do agree on hammocks! :-)

                  Rich


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • thomassen_ralph
                  Hey Rosaleen, For scouts to earn their Totin Chip they have to be able to feed and care for axes, hatchets, saws, and, folding knives. The only thing I know
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                    Hey Rosaleen,
                    For scouts to earn their Totin' Chip they have to be able to feed and
                    care for axes, hatchets, saws, and, folding knives. The only thing I
                    know that the scouts seriously frown on are fixed blade knives. The
                    reason being is that they are harder to secure. Not knowing what type
                    of trail improvement we will have to do we will most likely carry all
                    3 items. Be Prepared right?? I was just tbrainstorming on a way to
                    cut down weight. One of those kukri style machetes wood be nice. I
                    have tried the woodsman pal and it is sweet!!
                    Thanks Rosaleen!!
                    > Hey, Ralph-
                    >
                    > Before you make plans to have your Scouts carry hatchets, check
                    the "Guide
                    > to Safe Scouting" and instructions for using wood tools.
                    (Was "Totenship" a
                    > card kids earned?) It's been quite a few years, but I think it was
                    against
                    > policy for my Scouts to use hatchets, and small axes had to be used
                    in
                    > well-prescribed circumstances. We were encouraged to stick with
                    saws, and
                    > used a small axe or maybe a hatchet only for splitting wood using
                    the
                    > "contact method." A (folding) Sven saw wasn't too bad to carry,
                    especially
                    > when weight could be divvied up. Maintainers that come upon seem
                    to use
                    > saws, and nippers quite a bit.
                    >
                    > Rosaleen
                    > (SNIP)
                    > Has anyone experience with light weight shovels, bow saws, and/or
                    > hatchets. We have to do a conservation/trail improvement project on
                    > our 50 miles hike to earn the badge. This is not something a hiker
                    > would normally carry, but we will have to tote it.
                    > Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
                    > Troop 14 Griffin, GA
                    >
                  • Tom Frazier
                    Orange tents...that s the bummer of my brother s MSR Hubba tent...it s all orange (not quite blaze orange, but close to it!)!! Though, I m sure MSR, being a
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                      Orange tents...that's the bummer of my brother's MSR Hubba tent...it's all orange (not quite "blaze" orange, but close to it!)!! Though, I'm sure MSR, being a "mountain safety" group intended it to be bright and annoying. It's just that reason (the color) that I never bought one (ended up getting an REI halfdome instead; this was several years ago, now they've redesigned both tents).

                      Now that I've switched to hammocks I'm really getting to appreciate the ability to camouflage myself with my surroundings (without having to resort to something like a debris hut!) with the camo. claytor I have (I'm making my wife a digital camo. hammock set up next week; i.e. tent and tarp).

                      I'm in southern WA State, so it's not as crowded over here as I imagine I can be over on the eastern seaboard. I've only been to Maine on the eastern side, so I don't really have any camping experience over there, but I've heard stories of oh-so-crowded-camp nightmares. I can't imagine being stuffed in a camp with a bunch of other campers as if I were but one sardine in a tightly sealed can filled with hundreds more. I go to the woods for peace, love of nature, and the joy of absolute freedom, so I wouldn't be caught dead in a sardine-scenario.

                      Recent research has shown that our brightly colored tents and the noises we make (bells, whistles, etc.) are more likely to attract the curiosity of bears than to repel them. So, the *new* advice the "experts" are telling us is that we should be aware (duh!) of our surroundings and to keep as low a profile as possible. So all this brightly colored stuff is not only an eyesore for other campers to see if it were a constant use item, but bears could quite possibly be attracted to check you out because of it!!




                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Mark A. Andrews
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:53 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Orange trash bags.


                      Wow! I didn't mean to generate hostility.

                      Nowhere did I say that you shouldn't carry an orange trash bag. What I
                      said (if you care to re-read the first line of my post) is that you
                      should not use it as part of your everyday gear. My interpretation of
                      your post was that you advocated using it for a tent fly and a poncho
                      "in a pinch". To me, that is not an emergency situtation, but rather an
                      inconvenience.

                      A apologize that I didn't make myself more clear. My fault.

                      Last post, I promise.

                      Mark

                      Linda Ellis wrote:
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: Mark A. Andrews N4FH@...
                      >
                      > Sometimes being highly visible is not a good thing. Sometimes others
                      > don't want to see you and sometimes you don't want to be seen.
                      > AND SOMETIMES YOU VERY MUCH WANT TO BE SEEN! FYI, we have the $1.oo poncho - several of them, in fact. We also have better nylon ponchos which accommodate backpacks under them and can be used as a ground cover or a rainfly. All of these things have their place.
                      >






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                    • Tom Frazier
                      I just finished dismantling a couch today using my kukri machete. A few weeks ago, we had a bad windstorm here and half of this large birch tree near my
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                        I just finished dismantling a couch today using my kukri machete. A few weeks ago, we had a bad windstorm here and half of this large birch tree near my building was downed. I had my brother come over and we both took that tree down (was probably only 15 feet long and about 8" at its largest diameter) in a 1/2 hour using our kukri machetes. The key with these things is getting that good starting edge...the way we sharpen them the metal behind the edge helps support the edge integrity and requires less resharpening, and just getting used to the 'crooked shape' of the blade; since we've had a bit of practice, that tree melted like butter.

                        After dismantling that couch, though, my edge needs a little restoration (metal pins, staples, screws and springs all over that thing!), but the straight edge (nearest the handle) still easily cut off the upholstry. I was doubtful at first, but now that I've used these, I think they've got to be the handiest tool I've used.

                        I've yet to try the woodsman, but I've seen it and they look like they would perform in the same way and for the same reason (more metal on the end giving it a weight forward profile).






                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: thomassen_ralph
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:33 PM
                        Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Orange trash bags.


                        Hey Rosaleen,
                        For scouts to earn their Totin' Chip they have to be able to feed and
                        care for axes, hatchets, saws, and, folding knives. The only thing I
                        know that the scouts seriously frown on are fixed blade knives. The
                        reason being is that they are harder to secure. Not knowing what type
                        of trail improvement we will have to do we will most likely carry all
                        3 items. Be Prepared right?? I was just tbrainstorming on a way to
                        cut down weight. One of those kukri style machetes wood be nice. I
                        have tried the woodsman pal and it is sweet!!
                        Thanks Rosaleen!!
                        > Hey, Ralph-
                        >
                        > Before you make plans to have your Scouts carry hatchets, check
                        the "Guide
                        > to Safe Scouting" and instructions for using wood tools.
                        (Was "Totenship" a
                        > card kids earned?) It's been quite a few years, but I think it was
                        against
                        > policy for my Scouts to use hatchets, and small axes had to be used
                        in
                        > well-prescribed circumstances. We were encouraged to stick with
                        saws, and
                        > used a small axe or maybe a hatchet only for splitting wood using
                        the
                        > "contact method." A (folding) Sven saw wasn't too bad to carry,
                        especially
                        > when weight could be divvied up. Maintainers that come upon seem
                        to use
                        > saws, and nippers quite a bit.
                        >
                        > Rosaleen
                        > (SNIP)
                        > Has anyone experience with light weight shovels, bow saws, and/or
                        > hatchets. We have to do a conservation/trail improvement project on
                        > our 50 miles hike to earn the badge. This is not something a hiker
                        > would normally carry, but we will have to tote it.
                        > Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
                        > Troop 14 Griffin, GA
                        >






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                      • Rick
                        Interesting note on sheath knives. Sorry for the topic wandering a little from hammocks. Despite the current lack of conventional favorable words for sheath
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                          Interesting note on sheath knives. Sorry for the topic wandering a
                          little from hammocks.

                          Despite the current lack of conventional favorable words for sheath
                          knives, I find that the one I carry is the most used item in my kit. I
                          probably have a dozen great folders, but for one daily task, the
                          non-folder is head and shoulders better: For splitting small wood for a
                          campfire. Especially when wood is wet, fires are so much easier to start
                          when I split up a 1 inch diameter stick into a bunch of little splits.

                          The way I do the splitting is to hold the edge of the knife at the end
                          of the stick. I hit the back of the knife with another stick, used as a
                          mallet. Once the knife is cutting through the stick, I hold onto the
                          handle and hit the back of the blade near the point. That causes a lot
                          of bending stress at the joint for a folder.

                          When I have done this with folding knives with a locking mechanism, they
                          have sometimes broken or jammed.

                          I wonder when the BSA became unfavorable toward sheath knives. One of my
                          treasured possessions is the BSA sheath knife that my father used for a
                          short time when he was a child. The knife still works great, though I
                          replaced the sheath several years ago.

                          BTW, I usually carry my sheath knife with its sheath on a leather shoe
                          string around my neck as a pendant. The knife is always handy, does not
                          get snagged on brush, and is not intimidating to folks.

                          Recently, my favorite knives have been Mora knives made in Europe. They
                          are cheap, strong, and light. It comes with a sturdy plastic sheath
                          which I cover with a light leather sheath. That way, the knife will not
                          go sticking me in the ribs if I fall.

                          I even sleep with the knife. On my website, I report a bleak November
                          night when I was working out the concept of the travel pod. I woke in
                          the dark and had some fear that I would not be able to unfasten all the
                          buttons I had used to close the travel pod in that tight prototype. (I
                          now use a looser fit and a zipper) I felt a little claustrophobic and
                          wished that I was carrying something to help me escape. Result: I sleep
                          in my hammock with a chest sheathed knife all the time. Added
                          advantage: If I get turned out of my campsite in the middle of the night
                          by Zombies, at least I will have a useful tool to begin the survival
                          process.

                          How did I use a knife this last weekend camping? I made a couple hiking
                          sticks. I made three fires using the method described above. I made some
                          toothpicks. I made a hook to take the top off my pot. I made some
                          chopsticks when I was offered some hot noodles on a cold morning. I made
                          some "match sticks" by splitting some dry wood and then dipping the end
                          of the match stick sized split in the melted wax of a candle and then
                          lighting the wax. This is a great way to start of fire and it gives me
                          an infinite number of "matches" once my candle gets started.

                          Enough rambling. BSA and sheath knives. Who would have ever guessed?

                          BTW, I never carry an axe or a hatchet. I often carry a very lightweight
                          retractable saw made by Gerber. I think it is a great buy for about $10.

                          Risk

                          thomassen_ralph wrote:
                          > Hey Rosaleen,
                          > For scouts to earn their Totin' Chip they have to be able to feed and
                          > care for axes, hatchets, saws, and, folding knives. The only thing I
                          > know that the scouts seriously frown on are fixed blade knives. The
                          > reason being is that they are harder to secure. Not knowing what type
                          > of trail improvement we will have to do we will most likely carry all
                          > 3 items. Be Prepared right?? I was just tbrainstorming on a way to
                          > cut down weight. One of those kukri style machetes wood be nice. I
                          > have tried the woodsman pal and it is sweet!!
                          > Thanks Rosaleen!!
                          >> Hey, Ralph-
                          >>
                          >> Before you make plans to have your Scouts carry hatchets, check
                          > the "Guide
                          >> to Safe Scouting" and instructions for using wood tools.
                          > (Was "Totenship" a
                          >> card kids earned?) It's been quite a few years, but I think it was
                          > against
                          >> policy for my Scouts to use hatchets, and small axes had to be used
                          > in
                          >> well-prescribed circumstances. We were encouraged to stick with
                          > saws, and
                          >> used a small axe or maybe a hatchet only for splitting wood using
                          > the
                          >> "contact method." A (folding) Sven saw wasn't too bad to carry,
                          > especially
                          >> when weight could be divvied up. Maintainers that come upon seem
                          > to use
                          >> saws, and nippers quite a bit.
                          >>
                          >> Rosaleen
                          >> (SNIP)
                          >> Has anyone experience with light weight shovels, bow saws, and/or
                          >> hatchets. We have to do a conservation/trail improvement project on
                          >> our 50 miles hike to earn the badge. This is not something a hiker
                          >> would normally carry, but we will have to tote it.
                          >> Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
                          >> Troop 14 Griffin, GA
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • v1800list
                          I see orange trash bags all the time. Road crews use them to pick up trash and leave them on the side of the road. Easy to spot when the trucks come along to
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                            I see orange trash bags all the time. Road crews use them to pick up
                            trash and leave them on the side of the road. Easy to spot when the
                            trucks come along to pick them up.

                            We used to get a box of them to use when my troop had an "Adopt a Mile"
                            section.
                          • thomassen_ralph
                            ... I agree with you on the utility of a heavy fixed blade knife. I have several very nice tactical folders, but no way would I bang on them with a limb. I
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
                              >Hey Risk,

                              I agree with you on the utility of a heavy fixed blade knife. I have
                              several very nice tactical folders, but no way would I bang on them
                              with a limb. I would jsut break the mechanism. And, without going in
                              to details, anyone with a back ground in hunting will tell that a
                              good skinner is essential. But, I tihnk one of the reasons the BSA
                              advocates using a folding knife is the fact they are more secure, and
                              there is lesschance of an accident in a fall. Atleast that is what I
                              was told and have read. That being said, I fell out of a climbing
                              deer stand with a Buck G96 on my hip. I landed on my side and had a
                              huge bruise and cut on my leg. Thanks to Buck who makes pretty sturdy
                              sheathes (and knives) the knife did not pentrate the sheath. If it
                              had, I could have been in trouble. Has anyone ever had a folder open
                              up in a simlar circumstance??

                              Oh, sorry to get off topic. Hammocks, lets see..... My daugthers just
                              bought some camo cloth with a butterfly print. Too cute, huh??
                              Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
                              Troop 14 Griffin, Ga
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • pure mahem
                              I ve had a folder work it s way out of my pocket while in my truck and slide down between the seats. I thought no big deal just reach down and grab it. Sliced
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 21, 2008
                                I've had a folder work it's way out of my pocket while in my truck and slide down between the seats. I thought no big deal just reach down and grab it. Sliced my freaking finger to the bone it had opened up.



                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: thomassen_ralph <thomassen_ralph@...>
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:20:46 PM
                                Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Sheath Knives

                                --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
                                >Hey Risk,

                                I agree with you on the utility of a heavy fixed blade knife. I have
                                several very nice tactical folders, but no way would I bang on them
                                with a limb. I would jsut break the mechanism. And, without going in
                                to details, anyone with a back ground in hunting will tell that a
                                good skinner is essential. But, I tihnk one of the reasons the BSA
                                advocates using a folding knife is the fact they are more secure, and
                                there is lesschance of an accident in a fall. Atleast that is what I
                                was told and have read. That being said, I fell out of a climbing
                                deer stand with a Buck G96 on my hip. I landed on my side and had a
                                huge bruise and cut on my leg. Thanks to Buck who makes pretty sturdy
                                sheathes (and knives) the knife did not pentrate the sheath. If it
                                had, I could have been in trouble. Has anyone ever had a folder open
                                up in a simlar circumstance? ?

                                Oh, sorry to get off topic. Hammocks, lets see..... My daugthers just
                                bought some camo cloth with a butterfly print. Too cute, huh??
                                Ralph, Chandler, and Jared
                                Troop 14 Griffin, Ga
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >





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                              • Rosaleen Sullivan
                                Hey, Ralph- Rosaleen here, again. Just take a look at the Guide to Safe Scouting as you make plans for you Troop. Then weigh that info against what you choose
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 22, 2008
                                  Hey, Ralph-

                                  Rosaleen here, again.

                                  Just take a look at the Guide to Safe Scouting as you make plans for you
                                  Troop. Then weigh that info against what you choose to do. If you stay
                                  within the guidelnes, file the trip paperwork, and then have an accident,
                                  you can use the BSA's insurance. No paperwork, insurance can be denied.
                                  Same for not following the Guide. After the movie, Rambo, came out, my son
                                  wanted one of the big knives with the saw, etc., inside. He was a pretty
                                  responsible kid, so we got him one. The we found out they weren't allowed
                                  for Scout outings. Now I wouldn't carry it because it is too heavy.

                                  Rosaleen


                                  Re: Orange trash bags.
                                  Posted by: "thomassen_ralph" thomassen_ralph@... thomassen_ralph
                                  Date: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:33 pm ((PDT))

                                  Hey Rosaleen,
                                  For scouts to earn their Totin' Chip they have to be able to feed and
                                  care for axes, hatchets, saws, and, folding knives. The only thing I
                                  know that the scouts seriously frown on are fixed blade knives. The
                                  reason being is that they are harder to secure. Not knowing what type
                                  of trail improvement we will have to do we will most likely carry all
                                  3 items. Be Prepared right?? I was just tbrainstorming on a way to
                                  cut down weight. One of those kukri style machetes wood be nice. I
                                  have tried the woodsman pal and it is sweet!!
                                  Thanks Rosaleen!!
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