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Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

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  • tim garner
    Dar wrote: Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees? Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals,
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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      Dar <rigpilot@...> wrote: Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees?

      Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various
      environmental elements need protection.

      Also, don't forget that most hangers/campers/packers do not use their
      equipment properly. As well, many feel entitled if they see others
      doing what they want to do.

      Why further burden overworked and underpaid Park personnel?

      REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the trees in a responsible way.

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    • list@moz.geek.nz
      ... How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock users and everyone else? How do they tell everyone else that you are special and
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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        > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
        > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
        > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues
        > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
        > trees in a responsible way.

        How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
        users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
        special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
        with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.


        Moz
        In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
        (Terry Pratchett)
      • pure mahem
        I got the point of the snails! Guess I m glad I don t have to worry about that up here in the North Woods, all we got is some common moss, less bugs, more
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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          I got the point of the snails! Guess I'm glad I don't have to worry about that up here in the North Woods, all we got is some common moss, less bugs, more trees than you can shake a stick at, no snakes, and beautiful mountains! This will always be my home. I think it's important to take into consideration that not everyone can understand local regional concerns as not everyone lives in that area. Up here the eye hook or sawing action of ropes on the trees would be the only reason you wouldn't be allowed to hang a hammock. Nobody said anything about no endangered snails in the origninal post. And as it has been mentioned a lot about no hanging in Florida I don't recall anyone posting about no snails until they just pointed it out recently. So I was just trying to help with a suggestion not knowing about the snails. Take a chill pill!


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Dar <rigpilot@...>
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:18:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

          Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees?

          Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various
          environmental elements need protection.

          Also, don't forget that most hangers/campers/ packers do not use their
          equipment properly. As well, many feel entitled if they see others
          doing what they want to do.

          Why further burden overworked and underpaid Park personnel?

          --- tim garner <slowhike@yahoo. com> wrote:

          [snip]

          > i think what would really be better would be that park managers
          > take the time to look at what will really harm the trees rather than
          > throw a blanket over any use of trees.
          > that's kind of a "cop out"<G>. ...tim

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        • pure mahem
          They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell. Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the tree? That would be
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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            They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell. Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the tree? That would be my biggest clue. Suggest a possible rule of hanging only allowed with use of tree hugging protective straps, no ropes or eye hooks or damaging hanging device allowed. That's how I would define the rule. As long as it didn't include snails.



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: "list@..." <list@...>
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:57:51 PM
            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

            > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
            > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
            > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues
            > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
            > trees in a responsible way.

            How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
            users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
            special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
            with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

            Moz
            In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
            (Terry Pratchett)





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          • Dave Womble
            State parks, campgrounds, and other areas that get heavily used are different from wilderness areas where it isn t likely that the trees will see hammocks on a
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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              State parks, campgrounds, and other areas that get heavily used are
              different from wilderness areas where it isn't likely that the trees
              will see hammocks on a regular basis. There are sometimes issues with
              moss or snails or whatever. Some trees you may not want to hang from
              because the tree or its bark is just fragile in nature.

              Then there is how much force you are putting on the hammock suspension
              lines, that will also influence how much that force needs to be spread
              out. Occupants weight and how the hammock is hung greatly influence
              the amount of force on the hammock suspension lines. There is a lot
              of difference in a 100 pounds in a hammock with the suspension lines
              at a 30 degree sag angle versus 250 pounds in a hammock with the
              suspension lines at a 15 degree sag angle... roughly 100 pounds per
              suspension line versus 500 pounds.


              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, pure mahem <pure_mahem@...> wrote:
              >
              > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.
              Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the
              tree? That would be my biggest clue. Suggest a possible rule of
              hanging only allowed with use of tree hugging protective straps, no
              ropes or eye hooks or damaging hanging device allowed. That's how I
              would define the rule. As long as it didn't include snails.
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: "list@..." <list@...>
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:57:51 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules
              >
              > > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
              > > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
              > > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating
              the issues
              > > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
              > > trees in a responsible way.
              >
              > How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
              > users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
              > special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
              > with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.
              >
              > Moz
              > In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
              > (Terry Pratchett)
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and
              > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
              http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Moz
              ... The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone else that you re special? Moz In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                Moz:
                > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                pure mahem top posted:
                > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                else that you're special?

                Moz

                In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                (Terry Pratchett)
              • pure mahem
                Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                  Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items that damage trees. State the use of an Adequate size strap must be used to secure your hamock in a nondamaging way. Shown on one of the wonderful signs with pictures or illustrations they love to plunk down every where, Not that hard realy. If they can post No Hanging then they can post the correct way to hang. Seriously they put one of those Zebra mollusk and water parasite signs at every water launch, not much difference. Most of the parks do make money off people camping there. From what I've seen people that hammock using tree huggers usually leave no trace wouldn't you want those type of people in your park. Granted there are exceptions. Like everything else if your doing it wrong they will find you! Same as they would find you if you were hanging in a no hanging zone period. Honestly these
                  people are educated about the law they are not blooming idiots. If some one shows them what a tree hugger looks like you can spot if someone is using them or not long before you would even get to the hang site. Which they would be coming up on anyway to see if your doing any illegal burning, or site modification.

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Moz <list@...>
                  To: pure mahem <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:36:23 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                  Moz:
                  > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                  > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                  > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                  pure mahem top posted:
                  > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                  The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                  else that you're special?

                  Moz

                  In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                  (Terry Pratchett)





                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                • tim garner
                  well said... & we are special by the way . pure mahem wrote: Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                    well said... & we are special by the way<G>.

                    pure mahem <pure_mahem@...> wrote:
                    Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items that damage trees. State the use of an Adequate size strap must be used to secure your hamock in a nondamaging way. Shown on one of the wonderful signs with pictures or illustrations they love to plunk down every where, Not that hard realy. If they can post No Hanging then they can post the correct way to hang. Seriously they put one of those Zebra mollusk and water parasite signs at every water launch, not much difference. Most of the parks do make money off people camping there. From what I've seen people that hammock using tree huggers usually leave no trace wouldn't you want those type of people in your park. Granted there are exceptions. Like everything else if your doing it wrong they will find you! Same as they would find you if you were hanging in a no hanging zone period. Honestly these
                    people are educated about the law they are not blooming idiots. If some one shows them what a tree hugger looks like you can spot if someone is using them or not long before you would even get to the hang site. Which they would be coming up on anyway to see if your doing any illegal burning, or site modification.

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Moz

                    To: pure mahem
                    Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:36:23 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                    Moz:
                    > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                    > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                    > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                    pure mahem top posted:
                    > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                    The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                    else that you're special?

                    Moz

                    In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                    (Terry Pratchett)





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                    http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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                    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


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                  • David Fox
                    Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup? From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Moz Sent:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                      Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?



                      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Moz
                      Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                      To: pure mahem
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules



                      Moz:
                      > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                      > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                      > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                      pure mahem top posted:
                      > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                      The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                      else that you're special?

                      Moz

                      In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                      (Terry Pratchett)





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Carey Parks
                      Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the set up is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things with
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                        Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the "set
                        up" is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things
                        with the "no hanging" rules. Even tho the ranger specifically pointed that
                        rule out when we signed in and circiled it on the paper. We still saw other
                        people hang stuff.

                        C

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Fox
                        Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 1:32 AM
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules


                        Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?

                        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Moz
                        Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                        To: pure mahem
                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                        Moz:
                        > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                        > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                        > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                        pure mahem top posted:
                        > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                        The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                        else that you're special?

                        Moz

                        In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                        (Terry Pratchett)

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • pure mahem
                        I can only speak for my own experiences. Although we don t have the no hang rules up hear, we do have the leave no trace rules which the rangers remind us of.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                          I can only speak for my own experiences. Although we don't have the no hang rules up hear, we do have the leave no trace rules which the rangers remind us of. If I am out in the back country I don't usually see anyone. But 9 out of 10 times when I am at a public site the ranger will come around and check your site. If your doing something wrong they will leave a calling card on your tent door zipper or where you will definately see it for you to meet with them at the check in point to discuss the issue. They have no quams about telling you if you are doing something wrong and it can be as simple as moving a rock to build up the already existing fire ring, the fire ring is adequate please do not disturb the terrain, thank you. They are always polite about it but they are there and they want you to know that they do have rules and they want them followed. Just my experience. Yours may be different. They have never had any issue with me using a tree to hang
                          my hammock and have even pointed out a time or too good to see your using the protective straps to keep from harming the tree. They probably have told people using ropes to take them down if it appeared it was doing anyharm or might do harm to the tree.


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Carey Parks <Carey@...>
                          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 9:10:41 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                          Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the "set
                          up" is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things
                          with the "no hanging" rules. Even tho the ranger specifically pointed that
                          rule out when we signed in and circiled it on the paper. We still saw other
                          people hang stuff.

                          C

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                          [mailto:hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of David Fox
                          Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 1:32 AM
                          To: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                          Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?

                          From: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                          [mailto:hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com]
                          On Behalf Of Moz
                          Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                          To: pure mahem
                          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                          Moz:
                          > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                          > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                          > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                          pure mahem top posted:
                          > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                          The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                          else that you're special?

                          Moz

                          In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                          (Terry Pratchett)

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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