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Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

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  • list@moz.geek.nz
    ... And they ve often seen it all. It s not so much that they don t believe you, it s that they don t think you will fix any damage you do, even if they catch
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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      > In my home state of Indiana, they prohibit anything tied to trees in State
      > Parks because of damage done in the past by dining flies, clothes lines,
      > pet leashed, etc.

      And they've often seen it all. It's not so much that they don't believe
      you, it's that they don't think you will fix any damage you do, even if
      they catch you before you leave. I agree with them - fixing up a tree
      is pretty darn hard to do, even if you're a tree. Replacing the tree
      is similarly difficult since it still takes us 200 years to grow a 200
      year old tree, despite the awesome array of technology we have available.

      So since you can't make amaends for any damage, it's better to try to
      prevent you doing the damage in the first place.

      Moz
    • tim garner
      list@moz.geek.nz wrote: And they ve often seen it all. It s not so much that they don t believe you, it s that they don t think you will fix any damage you do,
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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        list@... wrote:
        And they've often seen it all. It's not so much that they don't believe
        you, it's that they don't think you will fix any damage you do, even if
        they catch you before you leave. I agree with them - fixing up a tree
        is pretty darn hard to do, even if you're a tree. Replacing the tree
        is similarly difficult since it still takes us 200 years to grow a 200
        year old tree, despite the awesome array of technology we have available.

        So since you can't make amaends for any damage, it's better to try to
        prevent you doing the damage in the first place.

        Moz


        i think what would really be better would be that park managers take the time to look at what will really harm the trees rather than throw a blanket over any use of trees.
        that's kind of a "cop out"<G>. ...tim



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      • Arye P. R.
        The problem is not everyone is as knowledgable and responsable as us. Others would leave string and ropes tied to trees and attach screws and all other things
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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          The problem is not everyone is as knowledgable and responsable as us. Others would leave string and ropes tied to trees and attach screws and all other things to the trees for any purpose. They do not know the outer layers of a tree are the 'living parts'. Bark is a tree's armor and protects the tree from outside attacks. When the bark is gone even in a small area there is a problem. It is like the human skin. BTW - There is a process called girdling a tree to kill it.

          While one hammock may not do any harm over a short time there are only so many trees sutable for hammock hanging in well traveled areas and those trees will be used over and over again and will suffer injury.
          Hummm... I can see it now the homeless with hammocks lounging in the state parks of states with warmer .

          I see the 'tree hanging' regulations as kinda like motorcycle helmet laws or left turn on red laws. A lot don't know of them, are suprised to hear of them and do not understand why.

          wait I can see a new product line... State approved hammock hanging belts...

          Sapere Aude,

          My 50 cents (2 cents adjusted for inflation)


          Arye P. Rubenstein


          Imagination is more important than knowledge...
          It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.

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        • Dar
          Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees? Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various environmental elements
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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            Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees?

            Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various
            environmental elements need protection.

            Also, don't forget that most hangers/campers/packers do not use their
            equipment properly. As well, many feel entitled if they see others
            doing what they want to do.

            Why further burden overworked and underpaid Park personnel?


            --- tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

            [snip]

            > i think what would really be better would be that park managers
            > take the time to look at what will really harm the trees rather than
            > throw a blanket over any use of trees.
            > that's kind of a "cop out"<G>. ...tim


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          • tim garner
            Dar wrote: Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees? Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals,
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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              Dar <rigpilot@...> wrote: Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees?

              Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various
              environmental elements need protection.

              Also, don't forget that most hangers/campers/packers do not use their
              equipment properly. As well, many feel entitled if they see others
              doing what they want to do.

              Why further burden overworked and underpaid Park personnel?

              REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the trees in a responsible way.

              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


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            • list@moz.geek.nz
              ... How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock users and everyone else? How do they tell everyone else that you are special and
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 28, 2008
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                > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
                > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
                > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues
                > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
                > trees in a responsible way.

                How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
                users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
                special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
                with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.


                Moz
                In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                (Terry Pratchett)
              • pure mahem
                I got the point of the snails! Guess I m glad I don t have to worry about that up here in the North Woods, all we got is some common moss, less bugs, more
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                  I got the point of the snails! Guess I'm glad I don't have to worry about that up here in the North Woods, all we got is some common moss, less bugs, more trees than you can shake a stick at, no snakes, and beautiful mountains! This will always be my home. I think it's important to take into consideration that not everyone can understand local regional concerns as not everyone lives in that area. Up here the eye hook or sawing action of ropes on the trees would be the only reason you wouldn't be allowed to hang a hammock. Nobody said anything about no endangered snails in the origninal post. And as it has been mentioned a lot about no hanging in Florida I don't recall anyone posting about no snails until they just pointed it out recently. So I was just trying to help with a suggestion not knowing about the snails. Take a chill pill!


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Dar <rigpilot@...>
                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:18:15 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                  Did you miss the point that they are not protecting just trees?

                  Moss, snails, ground cover, flora, fauna, insects, animals, and various
                  environmental elements need protection.

                  Also, don't forget that most hangers/campers/ packers do not use their
                  equipment properly. As well, many feel entitled if they see others
                  doing what they want to do.

                  Why further burden overworked and underpaid Park personnel?

                  --- tim garner <slowhike@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  [snip]

                  > i think what would really be better would be that park managers
                  > take the time to look at what will really harm the trees rather than
                  > throw a blanket over any use of trees.
                  > that's kind of a "cop out"<G>. ...tim

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                • pure mahem
                  They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell. Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the tree? That would be
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                    They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell. Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the tree? That would be my biggest clue. Suggest a possible rule of hanging only allowed with use of tree hugging protective straps, no ropes or eye hooks or damaging hanging device allowed. That's how I would define the rule. As long as it didn't include snails.



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "list@..." <list@...>
                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:57:51 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                    > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
                    > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
                    > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating the issues
                    > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
                    > trees in a responsible way.

                    How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
                    users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
                    special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
                    with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                    Moz
                    In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                    (Terry Pratchett)





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                  • Dave Womble
                    State parks, campgrounds, and other areas that get heavily used are different from wilderness areas where it isn t likely that the trees will see hammocks on a
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                      State parks, campgrounds, and other areas that get heavily used are
                      different from wilderness areas where it isn't likely that the trees
                      will see hammocks on a regular basis. There are sometimes issues with
                      moss or snails or whatever. Some trees you may not want to hang from
                      because the tree or its bark is just fragile in nature.

                      Then there is how much force you are putting on the hammock suspension
                      lines, that will also influence how much that force needs to be spread
                      out. Occupants weight and how the hammock is hung greatly influence
                      the amount of force on the hammock suspension lines. There is a lot
                      of difference in a 100 pounds in a hammock with the suspension lines
                      at a 30 degree sag angle versus 250 pounds in a hammock with the
                      suspension lines at a 15 degree sag angle... roughly 100 pounds per
                      suspension line versus 500 pounds.


                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, pure mahem <pure_mahem@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.
                      Are you using tree huggers or a wide protective strap to hang from the
                      tree? That would be my biggest clue. Suggest a possible rule of
                      hanging only allowed with use of tree hugging protective straps, no
                      ropes or eye hooks or damaging hanging device allowed. That's how I
                      would define the rule. As long as it didn't include snails.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: "list@..." <list@...>
                      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:57:51 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules
                      >
                      > > REPLY... i wasn't referring to the protection of the snails... i
                      > > understand the need there. i was referring to park management in other
                      > > areas learning about the growing art of hammocking & separating
                      the issues
                      > > of irresponsible campers that abuse trees from those who are using the
                      > > trees in a responsible way.
                      >
                      > How do park staff quickly distinguish between the responsible hammock
                      > users and everyone else? How do they tell "everyone else" that you are
                      > special and just because they see other people hanging stuff off trees
                      > with the approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.
                      >
                      > Moz
                      > In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                      > (Terry Pratchett)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                      > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                      http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Moz
                      ... The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone else that you re special? Moz In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                        Moz:
                        > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                        > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                        > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                        pure mahem top posted:
                        > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                        The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                        else that you're special?

                        Moz

                        In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                        (Terry Pratchett)
                      • pure mahem
                        Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                          Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items that damage trees. State the use of an Adequate size strap must be used to secure your hamock in a nondamaging way. Shown on one of the wonderful signs with pictures or illustrations they love to plunk down every where, Not that hard realy. If they can post No Hanging then they can post the correct way to hang. Seriously they put one of those Zebra mollusk and water parasite signs at every water launch, not much difference. Most of the parks do make money off people camping there. From what I've seen people that hammock using tree huggers usually leave no trace wouldn't you want those type of people in your park. Granted there are exceptions. Like everything else if your doing it wrong they will find you! Same as they would find you if you were hanging in a no hanging zone period. Honestly these
                          people are educated about the law they are not blooming idiots. If some one shows them what a tree hugger looks like you can spot if someone is using them or not long before you would even get to the hang site. Which they would be coming up on anyway to see if your doing any illegal burning, or site modification.

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Moz <list@...>
                          To: pure mahem <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:36:23 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                          Moz:
                          > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                          > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                          > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                          pure mahem top posted:
                          > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                          The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                          else that you're special?

                          Moz

                          In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                          (Terry Pratchett)





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                        • tim garner
                          well said... & we are special by the way . pure mahem wrote: Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                            well said... & we are special by the way<G>.

                            pure mahem <pure_mahem@...> wrote:
                            Post it in the rules like everything else! Not special! Using a specified tree hugger device to hang! Already said this stuff. No ropes! No lag screws or items that damage trees. State the use of an Adequate size strap must be used to secure your hamock in a nondamaging way. Shown on one of the wonderful signs with pictures or illustrations they love to plunk down every where, Not that hard realy. If they can post No Hanging then they can post the correct way to hang. Seriously they put one of those Zebra mollusk and water parasite signs at every water launch, not much difference. Most of the parks do make money off people camping there. From what I've seen people that hammock using tree huggers usually leave no trace wouldn't you want those type of people in your park. Granted there are exceptions. Like everything else if your doing it wrong they will find you! Same as they would find you if you were hanging in a no hanging zone period. Honestly these
                            people are educated about the law they are not blooming idiots. If some one shows them what a tree hugger looks like you can spot if someone is using them or not long before you would even get to the hang site. Which they would be coming up on anyway to see if your doing any illegal burning, or site modification.

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Moz

                            To: pure mahem
                            Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2008 6:36:23 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                            Moz:
                            > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                            > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                            > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                            pure mahem top posted:
                            > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                            The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                            else that you're special?

                            Moz

                            In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                            (Terry Pratchett)





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                            don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


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                          • David Fox
                            Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup? From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Moz Sent:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 1, 2008
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                              Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?



                              From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Moz
                              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                              To: pure mahem
                              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules



                              Moz:
                              > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                              > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                              > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                              pure mahem top posted:
                              > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                              The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                              else that you're special?

                              Moz

                              In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                              (Terry Pratchett)





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Carey Parks
                              Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the set up is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things with
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the "set
                                up" is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things
                                with the "no hanging" rules. Even tho the ranger specifically pointed that
                                rule out when we signed in and circiled it on the paper. We still saw other
                                people hang stuff.

                                C

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Fox
                                Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 1:32 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules


                                Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?

                                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Moz
                                Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                                To: pure mahem
                                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                                Moz:
                                > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                                > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                                > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                                pure mahem top posted:
                                > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                                The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                                else that you're special?

                                Moz

                                In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                                (Terry Pratchett)

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • pure mahem
                                I can only speak for my own experiences. Although we don t have the no hang rules up hear, we do have the leave no trace rules which the rangers remind us of.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 2, 2008
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                                  I can only speak for my own experiences. Although we don't have the no hang rules up hear, we do have the leave no trace rules which the rangers remind us of. If I am out in the back country I don't usually see anyone. But 9 out of 10 times when I am at a public site the ranger will come around and check your site. If your doing something wrong they will leave a calling card on your tent door zipper or where you will definately see it for you to meet with them at the check in point to discuss the issue. They have no quams about telling you if you are doing something wrong and it can be as simple as moving a rock to build up the already existing fire ring, the fire ring is adequate please do not disturb the terrain, thank you. They are always polite about it but they are there and they want you to know that they do have rules and they want them followed. Just my experience. Yours may be different. They have never had any issue with me using a tree to hang
                                  my hammock and have even pointed out a time or too good to see your using the protective straps to keep from harming the tree. They probably have told people using ropes to take them down if it appeared it was doing anyharm or might do harm to the tree.


                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: Carey Parks <Carey@...>
                                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2008 9:10:41 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                                  Ah, one big assumption here - that there will be staff present when the "set
                                  up" is set up. Staffing is and will be a problem, people still hang things
                                  with the "no hanging" rules. Even tho the ranger specifically pointed that
                                  rule out when we signed in and circiled it on the paper. We still saw other
                                  people hang stuff.

                                  C

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                                  [mailto:hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of David Fox
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 1:32 AM
                                  To: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: RE: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                                  Tell everyone else to go over and look at their setup?

                                  From: hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com
                                  [mailto:hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com]
                                  On Behalf Of Moz
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:36 PM
                                  To: pure mahem
                                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] State Park Hanging Rules

                                  Moz:
                                  > How do they tell "everyone else" that you are special and just
                                  > because they see other people hanging stuff off trees with the
                                  > approval of park staff doesn't mean they can do it too.

                                  pure mahem top posted:
                                  > They should be able to tell the same way most hammockers can tell.

                                  The part you avoided is the key part. How do park staff tell everyone
                                  else that you're special?

                                  Moz

                                  In the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded.
                                  (Terry Pratchett)

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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