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Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience

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  • ij santiago
    *cool frank, have a great hike!!! p.s. when r u heading this way and pick me up for an overniter????* ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
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      *cool frank, have a great hike!!!
      p.s. when r u heading this way and pick me up for an overniter????*

      On Jan 5, 2008 9:15 PM, Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...> wrote:

      > Foothills, some side trails and some logging/access roads.
      >
      > The FHT is the trail that I use the most. It's kind of in my back
      > yard. 25 miles from my driveway to one end of it, 45 to the other.
      >
      >
      > On Jan 5, 2008 8:35 PM, Tod Massa <todmassa@...<todmassa%40yahoo.com>>
      > wrote:
      > > Frank,
      > >
      > > Are you doing the foothills trail? I did half of that one very long day
      > a few years ago.
      > >
      > > Great trail...hope to backpack the whole thing some day.
      > >
      > > Have a great trip!
      > >
      > > Tod
      > >
      > > __________________________________________________________
      > > Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message ----
      > > From: Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...<Nightwalker.AT%40gmail.com>
      > >
      > > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com <hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:17:54 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4", but it's better
      > >
      > > than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the
      > >
      > > Evazote pretty tight, and I made a loop to hold it in the same place
      > >
      > > all the time, duct-taped onto the place I want it to be. The duct tape
      > >
      > > also keeps the Evazote from tearing as easily, which can be a problem
      > >
      > > with that stuff.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm leaving tonight for a 6-8 day hike around the Lake Jocassee area
      > >
      > > in SC/NC. I love Winter hiking the best, and hammocking is my favorite
      > >
      > > way to do it. My hammock setup is heavier than my tent setup, but the
      > >
      > > tent is about the lightest one out there*, so it's kind of cheating.
      > >
      > > :-)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Frank/Nightwalker
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > *Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo E
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Jan 5, 2008 4:24 PM, billybob38801 <billybob38801@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There
      > >
      > > > are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just
      > >
      > > > the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was
      > >
      > > > that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this
      > >
      > > > fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep
      > >
      > > > the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did
      > >
      > > > that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF
      > >
      > > > pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and
      > >
      > > > kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really
      > >
      > > > helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing
      > >
      > > > underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS
      > >
      > > > lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering
      > >
      > > > cost and weight.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a
      > >
      > > > lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though
      > >
      > > > it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, "Frank Looper"
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > <Nightwalker. AT@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some
      > 1/4"
      > >
      > > > > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
      > >
      > > > > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
      > >
      > > > > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
      > >
      > > > > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
      > >
      > > > > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it.
      > Right
      > >
      > > > > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as
      > well.
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > > > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
      > >
      > > > > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
      > >
      > > > > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
      > >
      > > > > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
      > >
      > > > > long.
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > <!--
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ed Speer
      Hi Billybob, glad to see you putting that PeaPod to the test! Of course, I m a big believer in that sucker & I use mine a lot in all kinds of conditions. It
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 6, 2008
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        Hi Billybob, glad to see you putting that PeaPod to the test! Of course,
        I'm a big believer in that sucker & I use mine a lot in all kinds of
        conditions. It really is highly adaptable to varying conditions, and just
        as you found by completely closing the PeaPod, it can easily be adjusted for
        the conditions. When first attaching the PeaPod, I like to leave some open
        air space between it & the hammock, then if it's going to be cold, I fill
        that extra space with down blankets, CCF pads or unused clothing like
        jackets, rain pants, sweaters, pack covers, etc-the extra warmth is amazing.
        Even dead leaves can be added! In fact, packing the PeaPod with dead leaves
        can take you well below zero F without carrying any additional weight! In
        the winter, I carry several trash bags so I can even use wet leaves if
        necessary. I hope you get to experiment with some of these innovative
        techniques with your PeaPod...Ed



        Moderator, Hammock Camping List

        Author, Hammock Camping book

        Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

        Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



        From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of billybob38801
        Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:47 AM
        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



        I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
        couple of nights back.

        First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
        the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
        adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
        hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
        seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
        that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
        know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
        which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
        inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
        better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?

        I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
        used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
        definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
        about in the middle, but who knows?

        Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
        hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
        just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
        previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
        ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
        and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
        was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
        a bit more.

        So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
        of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
        gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
        and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
        quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
        has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
        was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
        below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
        which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
        the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
        a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
        for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
        the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
        my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
        only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
        with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
        would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
        goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.

        It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
        over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
        not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
        but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
        comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
        draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
        my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
        drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
        fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
        back up.

        Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
        longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
        top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
        sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
        with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
        lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
        without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
        even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
        staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
        leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
        I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
        decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
        Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
        minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
        back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
        realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
        my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
        there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.

        Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
        performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
        as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
        getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Fox
        I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the peapod so there
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 6, 2008
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          I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
          thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
          peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember it, you
          got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head into the
          polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod but the
          hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.



          From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of billybob38801
          Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
          To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



          Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
          you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
          even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
          than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
          still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.

          Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
          I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
          did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
          least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
          quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
          blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
          without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
          with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
          Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!

          This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
          my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
          means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
          super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
          impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
          don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
          added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
          bottom warmth.

          Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
          might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
          pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.

          I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
          side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
          less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
          any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
          problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
          why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
          comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.

          Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
          this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
          much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
          their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
          PeaPod they were using.

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
          >
          > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
          the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
          about ideal.
          >
          >
          > billybob38801 <billybob38801@...> wrote:
          > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
          > couple of nights back.
          >
          > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
          > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
          > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
          > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
          > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
          > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
          > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
          > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
          > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
          > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
          >
          > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
          > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
          > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
          > about in the middle, but who knows?
          >
          > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
          > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
          > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
          > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
          > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
          > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
          > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
          > a bit more.
          >
          > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
          > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
          > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
          > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
          > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
          > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
          > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
          > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
          > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
          > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
          > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
          > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
          > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
          > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
          > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
          > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
          > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
          > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
          >
          > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
          > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
          > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
          > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
          > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
          > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
          > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
          > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
          > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
          > back up.
          >
          > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
          > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
          > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
          > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
          > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
          > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
          > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
          > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
          > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
          > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
          > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
          > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
          > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
          > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
          > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
          > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
          > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
          > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
          >
          > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
          > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
          > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
          > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Johan van Dijk
          That was the peapod hood from Just Jeff s site www.tothewoods.net http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearPeaPodHood.html Sorry for answering Just Jeff but I
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            That was the peapod hood from "Just Jeff"'s site www.tothewoods.net

            http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearPeaPodHood.html

            Sorry for answering "Just Jeff" but I read your site alot and maybe Ed
            should offer a "peapodhood" as an accessory (sp?) if possible. Now I will
            have to start tinkering myself and god knows I am pretty clumsy at that. ;-)

            Patiently awaiting my peapod, hammock and wintertarp....

            Grtz Johan

            --
            It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
            intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

            --
            mob: +31 6 44 80 82 63
            email: gonewalkabout2003@...

            http://www.geocities.com/johanvandijk
            http://calendar.yahoo.com/johanvandijk
            --


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • billybob38801
            That must have been JustJeff s PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose, though I have not
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              That must have been JustJeff's PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have
              a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose,
              though I have not tried it yet. It even has some velcro around the
              neck area that might match up with the scratchy side PeaPod Velcro.

              Also, if I was expecting consistent temps this cold(10*) or colder, I
              might use a light summer mummy bag, as I already do( winter weight
              though) when it's really cold and I'm in my HH SuperShelter. Then the
              hood and draft collar make any neck draft problem go away. Yes, I know
              it stinks trying to get in a mummy bag in a hammock, but I can do it
              now with minimal stuggle. And my experience has been that nothing is
              competitive with a mummy's hood/collar heat sealing abilities.

              But in this test, that "cool shoulders" due to a poor quilt fit pretty
              much disappeared when I closed the pod down from a 3-6 or so inch
              opening to all the way closed. There was a quick warm up then. Yes, I
              know, I worry about the condensation in the pod also. But I didn't
              really see any that was enough to decrease loft. There was a bit of
              dampness in the area just above my face, but again, there was still
              plenty of loft. But I wouldn't want to do this unless I could count on
              some sunshine to dry out the pod.

              I'm thinking we might be able to get away with this because of the
              Velcro closure? ( wild guess)IOW, since there is no draft tube, the
              pod's closure, even when fully closed, is relatively open compared to
              a zipper, especially with a draft tube.

              This MIGHT be just enough super breathable area ( no down in the way)
              to allow most moisture to escape around/thru the Velco, without having
              to go thru the down first and possibly condensing there?

              Anybody here with lot's of experience fully closing the pod in really
              cold weather? Do you have much trouble with wet down, as we would
              normally expect?
              Bill

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Fox" <amendment2@...> wrote:
              >
              > I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
              > thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
              > peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember
              it, you
              > got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head
              into the
              > polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod
              but the
              > hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.
              >
              >
              >
              > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of billybob38801
              > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
              > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
              >
              >
              >
              > Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
              > you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
              > even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
              > than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
              > still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.
              >
              > Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
              > I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
              > did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
              > least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
              > quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
              > blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
              > without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
              > with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
              > Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!
              >
              > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
              > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
              > means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
              > super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
              > impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
              > don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
              > added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
              > bottom warmth.
              >
              > Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
              > might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
              > pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.
              >
              > I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
              > side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
              > less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
              > any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
              > problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
              > why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
              > comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.
              >
              > Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
              > this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
              > much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
              > their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
              > PeaPod they were using.
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
              > the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
              > about ideal.
              > >
              > >
              > > billybob38801 <billybob38801@> wrote:
              > > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
              > > couple of nights back.
              > >
              > > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
              > > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
              > > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
              > > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
              > > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
              > > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
              > > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
              > > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
              > > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
              > > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
              > >
              > > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
              > > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten
              older, I
              > > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
              > > about in the middle, but who knows?
              > >
              > > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
              > > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
              > > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
              > > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
              > > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was
              already 19*,
              > > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
              > > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional
              5* or
              > > a bit more.
              > >
              > > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1
              layer
              > > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on
              standby, neck
              > > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
              > > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
              > > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
              > > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original
              rating
              > > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
              > > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
              > > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I
              closed
              > > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the
              diagonal
              > > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
              > > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
              > > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite
              contact
              > > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
              > > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
              > > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail
              where I
              > > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see
              how it
              > > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
              > >
              > > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was
              starting to
              > > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
              > > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
              > > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not
              quite
              > > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
              > > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
              > > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as
              far as
              > > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
              > > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the
              hood
              > > back up.
              > >
              > > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
              > > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely
              cool,
              > > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
              > > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
              > > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
              > > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
              > > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly
              for me,
              > > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
              > > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
              > > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600,
              when
              > > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
              > > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
              > > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
              > > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom.
              I fell
              > > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
              > > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I
              looked at
              > > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
              > > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
              > >
              > > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
              > > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
              > > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
              > > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ed Speer
              Bill, I hope others will also respond to your question, but I ve never seen a serious problem with condensation when I ve closed my PeaPod completely. Of
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Bill, I hope others will also respond to your question, but I've never seen
                a serious problem with condensation when I've closed my PeaPod completely.
                Of course, some wetness does occur directly above my face, but it's a small
                price to pay for being snug & warm. I too have noticed that the wetness
                isn't as bad as I would have expected, perhaps because the PeaPod has
                breathable shells & my own body heat helps drive some of the moisture all
                the way out. I've had success reducing the wetness a bit by wearing the
                re-breather balaclava (forgot the brand name-Rick gear tested this item a
                year or so ago). A bandana over my mouth & nose does about the same thing &
                traps some of the moisture before it gets into the PeaPod. The PeaPod still
                gets a little wet, but this isn't a major problem even on week long trips.
                I've had my PeaPod get a whole lot wetter just from dew condensing on it on
                high-humidity nights, but this also seems to evaporate with no loss of
                warmth, again perhaps because my body warms the PeaPod again the next night,
                driving out any accumulated moisture. I've often thought of doing some
                weight tests to see if moisture continues to accumulate on multi-night use,
                but haven't yet-so I too am interested in other people's experience..Ed



                Moderator, Hammock Camping List

                Author, Hammock Camping book

                Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

                Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of billybob38801
                Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 12:36 PM
                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SPAM]Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



                That must have been JustJeff's PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have
                a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose,
                though I have not tried it yet. It even has some velcro around the
                neck area that might match up with the scratchy side PeaPod Velcro.

                Also, if I was expecting consistent temps this cold(10*) or colder, I
                might use a light summer mummy bag, as I already do( winter weight
                though) when it's really cold and I'm in my HH SuperShelter. Then the
                hood and draft collar make any neck draft problem go away. Yes, I know
                it stinks trying to get in a mummy bag in a hammock, but I can do it
                now with minimal stuggle. And my experience has been that nothing is
                competitive with a mummy's hood/collar heat sealing abilities.

                But in this test, that "cool shoulders" due to a poor quilt fit pretty
                much disappeared when I closed the pod down from a 3-6 or so inch
                opening to all the way closed. There was a quick warm up then. Yes, I
                know, I worry about the condensation in the pod also. But I didn't
                really see any that was enough to decrease loft. There was a bit of
                dampness in the area just above my face, but again, there was still
                plenty of loft. But I wouldn't want to do this unless I could count on
                some sunshine to dry out the pod.

                I'm thinking we might be able to get away with this because of the
                Velcro closure? ( wild guess)IOW, since there is no draft tube, the
                pod's closure, even when fully closed, is relatively open compared to
                a zipper, especially with a draft tube.

                This MIGHT be just enough super breathable area ( no down in the way)
                to allow most moisture to escape around/thru the Velco, without having
                to go thru the down first and possibly condensing there?

                Anybody here with lot's of experience fully closing the pod in really
                cold weather? Do you have much trouble with wet down, as we would
                normally expect?
                Bill

                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Fox" <amendment2@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
                > thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
                > peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember
                it, you
                > got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head
                into the
                > polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod
                but the
                > hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.
                >
                >
                >
                > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                > On Behalf Of billybob38801
                > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
                > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
                >
                >
                >
                > Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
                > you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
                > even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
                > than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
                > still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.
                >
                > Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
                > I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
                > did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
                > least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
                > quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
                > blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
                > without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
                > with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
                > Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!
                >
                > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
                > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
                > means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
                > super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
                > impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
                > don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
                > added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
                > bottom warmth.
                >
                > Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
                > might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
                > pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.
                >
                > I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
                > side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
                > less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
                > any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
                > problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
                > why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
                > comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.
                >
                > Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
                > this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
                > much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
                > their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
                > PeaPod they were using.
                >
                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                > <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
                > the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
                > about ideal.
                > >
                > >
                > > billybob38801 <billybob38801@> wrote:
                > > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
                > > couple of nights back.
                > >
                > > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
                > > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
                > > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
                > > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
                > > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
                > > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
                > > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
                > > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
                > > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
                > > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
                > >
                > > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
                > > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten
                older, I
                > > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
                > > about in the middle, but who knows?
                > >
                > > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
                > > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
                > > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
                > > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
                > > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was
                already 19*,
                > > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
                > > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional
                5* or
                > > a bit more.
                > >
                > > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1
                layer
                > > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on
                standby, neck
                > > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
                > > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
                > > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
                > > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original
                rating
                > > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
                > > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
                > > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I
                closed
                > > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the
                diagonal
                > > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
                > > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
                > > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite
                contact
                > > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
                > > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
                > > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail
                where I
                > > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see
                how it
                > > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
                > >
                > > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was
                starting to
                > > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
                > > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
                > > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not
                quite
                > > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
                > > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
                > > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as
                far as
                > > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
                > > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the
                hood
                > > back up.
                > >
                > > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
                > > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely
                cool,
                > > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
                > > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
                > > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
                > > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
                > > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly
                for me,
                > > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
                > > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
                > > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600,
                when
                > > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
                > > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
                > > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
                > > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom.
                I fell
                > > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
                > > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I
                looked at
                > > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
                > > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
                > >
                > > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
                > > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
                > > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
                > > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cara Lin Bridgman
                ... This sort of condensation occurs on the ground with sleeping mats and in ordinary mummy-bags. I ve always saw it as one of the normal and unavoidable
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ed Speer wrote:
                  > but I've never seen a serious problem with condensation
                  > when I've closed my PeaPod completely. Of course, some
                  > wetness does occur directly above my face, but it's a small
                  > price to pay for being snug & warm.


                  This sort of condensation occurs on the ground with sleeping mats and in
                  ordinary mummy-bags. I've always saw it as one of the normal and
                  unavoidable parts of camping in the cold.

                  CL
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