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update PeaPod experience

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  • billybob38801
    I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a couple of nights back. First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 4, 2008
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      I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
      couple of nights back.

      First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
      the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
      adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
      hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
      seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
      that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
      know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
      which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
      inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
      better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?

      I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
      used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
      definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
      about in the middle, but who knows?

      Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
      hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
      just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
      previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
      ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
      and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
      was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
      a bit more.

      So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
      of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
      gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
      and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
      quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
      has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
      was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
      below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
      which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
      the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
      a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
      for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
      the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
      my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
      only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
      with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
      would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
      goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.

      It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
      over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
      not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
      but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
      comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
      draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
      my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
      drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
      fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
      back up.

      Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
      longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
      top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
      sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
      with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
      lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
      without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
      even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
      staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
      leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
      I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
      decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
      Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
      minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
      back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
      realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
      my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
      there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.

      Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
      performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
      as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
      getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tim garner
      maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just about ideal.
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
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        maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just about ideal.


        billybob38801 <billybob38801@...> wrote:
        I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
        couple of nights back.

        First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
        the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
        adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
        hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
        seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
        that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
        know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
        which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
        inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
        better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?

        I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
        used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
        definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
        about in the middle, but who knows?

        Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
        hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
        just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
        previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
        ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
        and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
        was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
        a bit more.

        So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
        of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
        gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
        and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
        quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
        has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
        was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
        below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
        which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
        the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
        a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
        for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
        the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
        my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
        only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
        with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
        would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
        goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.

        It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
        over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
        not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
        but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
        comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
        draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
        my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
        drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
        fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
        back up.

        Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
        longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
        top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
        sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
        with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
        lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
        without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
        even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
        staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
        leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
        I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
        decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
        Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
        minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
        back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
        realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
        my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
        there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.

        Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
        performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
        as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
        getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Links






        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


        ---------------------------------
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • billybob38801
        Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be even more expensive
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
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          Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
          you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
          even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
          than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
          still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.

          Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
          I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
          did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
          least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
          quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
          blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
          without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
          with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
          Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!

          This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
          my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
          means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
          super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
          impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
          don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
          added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
          bottom warmth.

          Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
          might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
          pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.

          I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
          side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
          less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
          any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
          problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
          why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
          comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.

          Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
          this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
          much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
          their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
          PeaPod they were using.

          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
          >
          > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
          the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
          about ideal.
          >
          >
          > billybob38801 <billybob38801@...> wrote:
          > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
          > couple of nights back.
          >
          > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
          > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
          > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
          > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
          > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
          > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
          > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
          > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
          > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
          > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
          >
          > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
          > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
          > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
          > about in the middle, but who knows?
          >
          > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
          > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
          > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
          > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
          > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
          > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
          > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
          > a bit more.
          >
          > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
          > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
          > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
          > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
          > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
          > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
          > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
          > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
          > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
          > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
          > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
          > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
          > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
          > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
          > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
          > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
          > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
          > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
          >
          > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
          > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
          > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
          > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
          > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
          > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
          > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
          > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
          > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
          > back up.
          >
          > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
          > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
          > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
          > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
          > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
          > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
          > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
          > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
          > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
          > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
          > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
          > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
          > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
          > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
          > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
          > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
          > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
          > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
          >
          > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
          > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
          > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
          > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Cara Lin Bridgman
          ... Why can t you use it with your HH? I got tired of the velcro on my JRB nest grabbing at my hair, so I vecroed and safety pinned it together. It still
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            billybob38801 wrote:
            > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
            > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other


            Why can't you use it with your HH? I got tired of the velcro on my JRB
            nest grabbing at my hair, so I vecroed and safety pinned it together.
            It still works fine on my HH. In fact, I think I like it better.

            All the directions say to install the nest, and then pull it back, climb
            into the HH, and the nest will slide right back under you all by itself.
            It wasn't doing that for me until I figured out that my problem was
            having it too tight under the hammock. This was preventing all that
            insulation from doing its job, too.

            It may have been your mention of Ed Speer's directions to make sure
            there's a good 5 inches between the insulating layer and the hammock
            before you even climb in, but sometime in the past month I figured out
            that those 5-ish inches are what's needed to make it work!.

            In fact, last month I had to camp out at one school I teach at (all the
            guest houses were full). I stayed in the HH and slept great except for
            one horrible dog which literally barked at my hammock all night. I
            found out that I could make really speedy exits (trying to kill that
            dog!) even with having to kick the nest out of the way before I could
            leave my HH.

            So, if it's not easily sliding underneath you, then it has to be too tight.

            Some of these things just take me a little longer to figure out...

            CL
          • billybob38801
            Hi Cara Lin, I hope it indeed was my mention of Ed telling me about the 5 space to start that helped you out! Good to help out for a change, instead of just
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Cara Lin,
              I hope it indeed was my mention of Ed telling me about the 5" space to
              start that helped you out! Good to help out for a change, instead of
              just needing help all the time! [:D]

              But, I can't use the PeaPod with my HH because, unlike the Nest, it only
              works with top loading hammocks. It circles the entire hammock, with a
              Velcro closure on top. If you close it up most or all of the way, you
              are sealed in it sort of like a mummy bag. It would have to be much
              bigger in order to close over the HH net and fixed ridge line. And even
              if it was big enough, then the huge air space over you would defeat much
              of the purpose of the top part of the pod's loft, and then I don't think
              you could even get in the HH. You would have to close it from the
              outside, since you couldn't reach the closure through the net.

              So, just absolutely not usable with the HH, unless you cut the net and
              maybe the ridge line. Which I am certainly considering doing! Although,
              it might be possible, with some minimal alterations, to use it with the
              HH as a bottom quilt only. But that would be one thick UQ!

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > billybob38801 wrote:
              > > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it
              with
              > > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
              >
              >
              > Why can't you use it with your HH? I got tired of the velcro on my
              JRB
              > nest grabbing at my hair, so I vecroed and safety pinned it together.
              > It still works fine on my HH. In fact, I think I like it better.
              >
              > All the directions say to install the nest, and then pull it back,
              climb
              > into the HH, and the nest will slide right back under you all by
              itself.
              > It wasn't doing that for me until I figured out that my problem was
              > having it too tight under the hammock. This was preventing all that
              > insulation from doing its job, too.
              >
              > It may have been your mention of Ed Speer's directions to make sure
              > there's a good 5 inches between the insulating layer and the hammock
              > before you even climb in, but sometime in the past month I figured out
              > that those 5-ish inches are what's needed to make it work!.
              >
              > In fact, last month I had to camp out at one school I teach at (all
              the
              > guest houses were full). I stayed in the HH and slept great except
              for
              > one horrible dog which literally barked at my hammock all night. I
              > found out that I could make really speedy exits (trying to kill that
              > dog!) even with having to kick the nest out of the way before I could
              > leave my HH.
              >
              > So, if it's not easily sliding underneath you, then it has to be too
              tight.
              >
              > Some of these things just take me a little longer to figure out...
              >
              > CL
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cara Lin Bridgman
              Hi BillyBob, It probably was your comment! Sorry my comment was totally useless. I think I was confusing your PeaPod with Ed Speer s new underquilt. I ve not
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
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                Hi BillyBob,

                It probably was your comment!

                Sorry my comment was totally useless. I think I was confusing your
                PeaPod with Ed Speer's new underquilt. I've not got either.

                Your description makes it really clear why the PeaPod won't work with an
                HH. There may be times, though, when you'd want a really thick
                underquilt. I've noticed on the JRB site where they discuss how to work
                out a double-layer so you'd get about 5 inches of insulation underneath.

                I just avoid camping in that sort of cold!

                CL

                billybob38801 wrote:
                > Hi Cara Lin,
                > I hope it indeed was my mention of Ed telling me about the 5" space to
                > start that helped you out! Good to help out for a change, instead of
                > just needing help all the time! [:D]
                >
                > But, I can't use the PeaPod with my HH because, unlike the Nest, it only
                > works with top loading hammocks. It circles the entire hammock, with a
                > Velcro closure on top. If you close it up most or all of the way, you
                > are sealed in it sort of like a mummy bag. It would have to be much
                > bigger in order to close over the HH net and fixed ridge line. And even
                > if it was big enough, then the huge air space over you would defeat much
                > of the purpose of the top part of the pod's loft, and then I don't think
                > you could even get in the HH. You would have to close it from the
                > outside, since you couldn't reach the closure through the net.
                >
                > So, just absolutely not usable with the HH, unless you cut the net and
                > maybe the ridge line. Which I am certainly considering doing! Although,
                > it might be possible, with some minimal alterations, to use it with the
                > HH as a bottom quilt only. But that would be one thick UQ!
              • Frank Looper
                I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4 Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under section was 4 x 4 . It
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4"
                  Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
                  section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
                  foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
                  10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
                  lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it. Right
                  beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as well.

                  Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
                  keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
                  and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
                  definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
                  long.
                • billybob38801
                  Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just the one basic HH
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There
                    are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just
                    the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was
                    that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this
                    fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep
                    the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did
                    that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?

                    I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF
                    pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and
                    kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really
                    helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing
                    underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS
                    lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering
                    cost and weight.

                    I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a
                    lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though
                    it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Looper"
                    <Nightwalker.AT@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4"
                    > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
                    > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
                    > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
                    > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
                    > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it. Right
                    > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as well.
                    >
                    > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
                    > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
                    > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
                    > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
                    > long.
                    >
                  • Frank Looper
                    Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4 , but it s better than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the Evazote pretty tight,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4", but it's better
                      than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the
                      Evazote pretty tight, and I made a loop to hold it in the same place
                      all the time, duct-taped onto the place I want it to be. The duct tape
                      also keeps the Evazote from tearing as easily, which can be a problem
                      with that stuff.

                      I'm leaving tonight for a 6-8 day hike around the Lake Jocassee area
                      in SC/NC. I love Winter hiking the best, and hammocking is my favorite
                      way to do it. My hammock setup is heavier than my tent setup, but the
                      tent is about the lightest one out there*, so it's kind of cheating.
                      :-)

                      Frank/Nightwalker

                      *Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo E

                      On Jan 5, 2008 4:24 PM, billybob38801 <billybob38801@...> wrote:
                      > Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There
                      > are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just
                      > the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was
                      > that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this
                      > fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep
                      > the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did
                      > that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?
                      >
                      > I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF
                      > pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and
                      > kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really
                      > helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing
                      > underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS
                      > lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering
                      > cost and weight.
                      >
                      > I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a
                      > lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though
                      > it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Looper"
                      >
                      > <Nightwalker.AT@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4"
                      > > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
                      > > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
                      > > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
                      > > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
                      > > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it. Right
                      > > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as well.
                      > >
                      > > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
                      > > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
                      > > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
                      > > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
                      > > long.
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Tod Massa
                      Frank, Are you doing the foothills trail? I did half of that one very long day a few years ago. Great trail...hope to backpack the whole thing some day. Have a
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
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                        Frank,

                        Are you doing the foothills trail? I did half of that one very long day a few years ago.

                        Great trail...hope to backpack the whole thing some day.

                        Have a great trip!

                        Tod

                        ______________________________________________________________________________
                        Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.

                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...>
                        To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:17:54 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience














                        Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4", but it's better

                        than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the

                        Evazote pretty tight, and I made a loop to hold it in the same place

                        all the time, duct-taped onto the place I want it to be. The duct tape

                        also keeps the Evazote from tearing as easily, which can be a problem

                        with that stuff.



                        I'm leaving tonight for a 6-8 day hike around the Lake Jocassee area

                        in SC/NC. I love Winter hiking the best, and hammocking is my favorite

                        way to do it. My hammock setup is heavier than my tent setup, but the

                        tent is about the lightest one out there*, so it's kind of cheating.

                        :-)



                        Frank/Nightwalker



                        *Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo E



                        On Jan 5, 2008 4:24 PM, billybob38801 <billybob38801@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                        > Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There

                        > are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just

                        > the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was

                        > that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this

                        > fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep

                        > the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did

                        > that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?

                        >

                        > I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF

                        > pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and

                        > kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really

                        > helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing

                        > underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS

                        > lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering

                        > cost and weight.

                        >

                        > I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a

                        > lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though

                        > it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.

                        >

                        > --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, "Frank Looper"

                        >

                        > <Nightwalker. AT@...> wrote:

                        > >

                        > > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4"

                        > > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under

                        > > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The

                        > > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a

                        > > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I

                        > > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it. Right

                        > > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as well.

                        > >

                        > > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to

                        > > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up

                        > > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could

                        > > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night

                        > > long.

                        > >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Yahoo! Groups Links

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >












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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Frank Looper
                        Foothills, some side trails and some logging/access roads. The FHT is the trail that I use the most. It s kind of in my back yard. 25 miles from my driveway to
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Foothills, some side trails and some logging/access roads.

                          The FHT is the trail that I use the most. It's kind of in my back
                          yard. 25 miles from my driveway to one end of it, 45 to the other.

                          On Jan 5, 2008 8:35 PM, Tod Massa <todmassa@...> wrote:
                          > Frank,
                          >
                          > Are you doing the foothills trail? I did half of that one very long day a few years ago.
                          >
                          > Great trail...hope to backpack the whole thing some day.
                          >
                          > Have a great trip!
                          >
                          > Tod
                          >
                          > ______________________________________________________________________________
                          > Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...>
                          > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:17:54 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4", but it's better
                          >
                          > than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the
                          >
                          > Evazote pretty tight, and I made a loop to hold it in the same place
                          >
                          > all the time, duct-taped onto the place I want it to be. The duct tape
                          >
                          > also keeps the Evazote from tearing as easily, which can be a problem
                          >
                          > with that stuff.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm leaving tonight for a 6-8 day hike around the Lake Jocassee area
                          >
                          > in SC/NC. I love Winter hiking the best, and hammocking is my favorite
                          >
                          > way to do it. My hammock setup is heavier than my tent setup, but the
                          >
                          > tent is about the lightest one out there*, so it's kind of cheating.
                          >
                          > :-)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Frank/Nightwalker
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > *Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo E
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Jan 5, 2008 4:24 PM, billybob38801 <billybob38801@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There
                          >
                          > > are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just
                          >
                          > > the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was
                          >
                          > > that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this
                          >
                          > > fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep
                          >
                          > > the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did
                          >
                          > > that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF
                          >
                          > > pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and
                          >
                          > > kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really
                          >
                          > > helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing
                          >
                          > > underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS
                          >
                          > > lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering
                          >
                          > > cost and weight.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a
                          >
                          > > lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though
                          >
                          > > it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, "Frank Looper"
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > <Nightwalker. AT@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some 1/4"
                          >
                          > > > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
                          >
                          > > > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
                          >
                          > > > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
                          >
                          > > > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
                          >
                          > > > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it. Right
                          >
                          > > > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as well.
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
                          >
                          > > > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
                          >
                          > > > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
                          >
                          > > > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
                          >
                          > > > long.
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • ij santiago
                          *cool frank, have a great hike!!! p.s. when r u heading this way and pick me up for an overniter????* ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 5, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            *cool frank, have a great hike!!!
                            p.s. when r u heading this way and pick me up for an overniter????*

                            On Jan 5, 2008 9:15 PM, Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...> wrote:

                            > Foothills, some side trails and some logging/access roads.
                            >
                            > The FHT is the trail that I use the most. It's kind of in my back
                            > yard. 25 miles from my driveway to one end of it, 45 to the other.
                            >
                            >
                            > On Jan 5, 2008 8:35 PM, Tod Massa <todmassa@...<todmassa%40yahoo.com>>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Frank,
                            > >
                            > > Are you doing the foothills trail? I did half of that one very long day
                            > a few years ago.
                            > >
                            > > Great trail...hope to backpack the whole thing some day.
                            > >
                            > > Have a great trip!
                            > >
                            > > Tod
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________________________________
                            > > Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ----- Original Message ----
                            > > From: Frank Looper <Nightwalker.AT@...<Nightwalker.AT%40gmail.com>
                            > >
                            > > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com <hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2008 8:17:54 PM
                            > > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Not much trouble to use the bag. The Evazote is 1/4", but it's better
                            > >
                            > > than most CCF as far as insulation goes. The undercover holds the
                            > >
                            > > Evazote pretty tight, and I made a loop to hold it in the same place
                            > >
                            > > all the time, duct-taped onto the place I want it to be. The duct tape
                            > >
                            > > also keeps the Evazote from tearing as easily, which can be a problem
                            > >
                            > > with that stuff.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I'm leaving tonight for a 6-8 day hike around the Lake Jocassee area
                            > >
                            > > in SC/NC. I love Winter hiking the best, and hammocking is my favorite
                            > >
                            > > way to do it. My hammock setup is heavier than my tent setup, but the
                            > >
                            > > tent is about the lightest one out there*, so it's kind of cheating.
                            > >
                            > > :-)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Frank/Nightwalker
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > *Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo E
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Jan 5, 2008 4:24 PM, billybob38801 <billybob38801@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Thanks for that info, Frank. I am a big SuperShelter fan myself. There
                            > >
                            > > > are not many of us that post on most hammock forums. So this was just
                            > >
                            > > > the one basic HH OCF pad, plus the CCF pad under it all? How thick was
                            > >
                            > > > that CCF pad? I am amazed that you were able to use the pad in this
                            > >
                            > > > fashion, UNDER the closed cell foam. You were obviously able to keep
                            > >
                            > > > the evazote pad up close to the OCF, but I'm not sure how you did
                            > >
                            > > > that. Did you have to adjust the undercover much tighter than usual?
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > > I have been able to get the SS to some pretty low temps without CCF
                            > >
                            > > > pads, though I have also used those. I have added the HH torso and
                            > >
                            > > > kidney pads, and those really help. And the space blanket really
                            > >
                            > > > helps, just as it helped in the PeaPod. And putting clothing
                            > >
                            > > > underneath and/or a garlington insulator can really push that SS
                            > >
                            > > > lower. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. Especially considering
                            > >
                            > > > cost and weight.
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > > I agree with you that a sleeping bag wrapped around you can get you a
                            > >
                            > > > lot of extra warmth. It has, for me, much fewer draft problems. Though
                            > >
                            > > > it is a bit ( a lot? ) more hassle.
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > > --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, "Frank Looper"
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > > <Nightwalker. AT@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            > > > > I did those cold nights with a Super Shelter on bottom, plus some
                            > 1/4"
                            > >
                            > > > > Evazote under the OCF. The Evazote on the head half of the under
                            > >
                            > > > > section was 4' x 4'. It could use just a little edge trimming. The
                            > >
                            > > > > foot half was 2' x 4' and overlapped with the top section. I used a
                            > >
                            > > > > 10' WM bag inside the hammock, and not just as a quilt. Yes, where I
                            > >
                            > > > > lay on the down crushes it, but only directly where I lay on it.
                            > Right
                            > >
                            > > > > beside the pressure points is full volume,and full insulation as
                            > well.
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            > > > > Early in the night, on the first night, I had to put an arm out to
                            > >
                            > > > > keep from sweating. Later on, as it got into the teens, I zipped up
                            > >
                            > > > > and was roasty-toasty all night long. I had no cold spots, and could
                            > >
                            > > > > definitely have went colder. The wind whipped pretty hard all night
                            > >
                            > > > > long.
                            > >
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <!--
                            > >
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                            > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px
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                            > >
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                            > >
                            > > <!--
                            > >
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                            > >
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                            > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}
                            > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{
                            > >
                            > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
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                            > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;
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                            > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                            > >
                            > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
                            > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                            > > font-weight:bold;}
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                            > > text-decoration:none;}
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                            > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
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                            > >
                            > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
                            > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
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                            > > text-decoration:underline;}
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                            > > -->
                            > >
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                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ed Speer
                            Hi Billybob, glad to see you putting that PeaPod to the test! Of course, I m a big believer in that sucker & I use mine a lot in all kinds of conditions. It
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 6, 2008
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                              Hi Billybob, glad to see you putting that PeaPod to the test! Of course,
                              I'm a big believer in that sucker & I use mine a lot in all kinds of
                              conditions. It really is highly adaptable to varying conditions, and just
                              as you found by completely closing the PeaPod, it can easily be adjusted for
                              the conditions. When first attaching the PeaPod, I like to leave some open
                              air space between it & the hammock, then if it's going to be cold, I fill
                              that extra space with down blankets, CCF pads or unused clothing like
                              jackets, rain pants, sweaters, pack covers, etc-the extra warmth is amazing.
                              Even dead leaves can be added! In fact, packing the PeaPod with dead leaves
                              can take you well below zero F without carrying any additional weight! In
                              the winter, I carry several trash bags so I can even use wet leaves if
                              necessary. I hope you get to experiment with some of these innovative
                              techniques with your PeaPod...Ed



                              Moderator, Hammock Camping List

                              Author, Hammock Camping book

                              Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

                              Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                              From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of billybob38801
                              Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 1:47 AM
                              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



                              I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
                              couple of nights back.

                              First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
                              the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
                              adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
                              hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
                              seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
                              that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
                              know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
                              which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
                              inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
                              better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?

                              I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
                              used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
                              definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
                              about in the middle, but who knows?

                              Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
                              hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
                              just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
                              previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
                              ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
                              and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
                              was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
                              a bit more.

                              So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
                              of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
                              gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
                              and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
                              quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
                              has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
                              was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
                              below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
                              which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
                              the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
                              a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
                              for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
                              the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
                              my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
                              only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
                              with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
                              would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
                              goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.

                              It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
                              over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
                              not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
                              but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
                              comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
                              draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
                              my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
                              drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
                              fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
                              back up.

                              Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
                              longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
                              top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
                              sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
                              with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
                              lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
                              without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
                              even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
                              staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
                              leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
                              I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
                              decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
                              Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
                              minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
                              back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
                              realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
                              my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
                              there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.

                              Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
                              performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
                              as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
                              getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • David Fox
                              I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the peapod so there
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 6, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
                                thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
                                peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember it, you
                                got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head into the
                                polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod but the
                                hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.



                                From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of billybob38801
                                Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
                                To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



                                Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
                                you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
                                even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
                                than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
                                still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.

                                Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
                                I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
                                did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
                                least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
                                quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
                                blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
                                without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
                                with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
                                Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!

                                This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
                                my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
                                means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
                                super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
                                impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
                                don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
                                added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
                                bottom warmth.

                                Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
                                might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
                                pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.

                                I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
                                side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
                                less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
                                any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
                                problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
                                why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
                                comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.

                                Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
                                this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
                                much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
                                their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
                                PeaPod they were using.

                                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
                                the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
                                about ideal.
                                >
                                >
                                > billybob38801 <billybob38801@...> wrote:
                                > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
                                > couple of nights back.
                                >
                                > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
                                > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
                                > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
                                > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
                                > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
                                > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
                                > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
                                > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
                                > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
                                > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
                                >
                                > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
                                > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten older, I
                                > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
                                > about in the middle, but who knows?
                                >
                                > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
                                > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
                                > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
                                > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
                                > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was already 19*,
                                > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
                                > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional 5* or
                                > a bit more.
                                >
                                > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1 layer
                                > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on standby, neck
                                > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
                                > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
                                > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
                                > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original rating
                                > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
                                > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
                                > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I closed
                                > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the diagonal
                                > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
                                > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
                                > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite contact
                                > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
                                > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
                                > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail where I
                                > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see how it
                                > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
                                >
                                > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was starting to
                                > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
                                > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
                                > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not quite
                                > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
                                > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
                                > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as far as
                                > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
                                > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the hood
                                > back up.
                                >
                                > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
                                > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely cool,
                                > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
                                > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
                                > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
                                > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
                                > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly for me,
                                > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
                                > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
                                > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600, when
                                > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
                                > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
                                > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
                                > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom. I fell
                                > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
                                > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I looked at
                                > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
                                > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
                                >
                                > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
                                > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
                                > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
                                > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                >
                                >
                                > ---------------------------------
                                > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Johan van Dijk
                                That was the peapod hood from Just Jeff s site www.tothewoods.net http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearPeaPodHood.html Sorry for answering Just Jeff but I
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  That was the peapod hood from "Just Jeff"'s site www.tothewoods.net

                                  http://www.tothewoods.net/HomemadeGearPeaPodHood.html

                                  Sorry for answering "Just Jeff" but I read your site alot and maybe Ed
                                  should offer a "peapodhood" as an accessory (sp?) if possible. Now I will
                                  have to start tinkering myself and god knows I am pretty clumsy at that. ;-)

                                  Patiently awaiting my peapod, hammock and wintertarp....

                                  Grtz Johan

                                  --
                                  It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
                                  intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

                                  --
                                  mob: +31 6 44 80 82 63
                                  email: gonewalkabout2003@...

                                  http://www.geocities.com/johanvandijk
                                  http://calendar.yahoo.com/johanvandijk
                                  --


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • billybob38801
                                  That must have been JustJeff s PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose, though I have not
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    That must have been JustJeff's PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have
                                    a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose,
                                    though I have not tried it yet. It even has some velcro around the
                                    neck area that might match up with the scratchy side PeaPod Velcro.

                                    Also, if I was expecting consistent temps this cold(10*) or colder, I
                                    might use a light summer mummy bag, as I already do( winter weight
                                    though) when it's really cold and I'm in my HH SuperShelter. Then the
                                    hood and draft collar make any neck draft problem go away. Yes, I know
                                    it stinks trying to get in a mummy bag in a hammock, but I can do it
                                    now with minimal stuggle. And my experience has been that nothing is
                                    competitive with a mummy's hood/collar heat sealing abilities.

                                    But in this test, that "cool shoulders" due to a poor quilt fit pretty
                                    much disappeared when I closed the pod down from a 3-6 or so inch
                                    opening to all the way closed. There was a quick warm up then. Yes, I
                                    know, I worry about the condensation in the pod also. But I didn't
                                    really see any that was enough to decrease loft. There was a bit of
                                    dampness in the area just above my face, but again, there was still
                                    plenty of loft. But I wouldn't want to do this unless I could count on
                                    some sunshine to dry out the pod.

                                    I'm thinking we might be able to get away with this because of the
                                    Velcro closure? ( wild guess)IOW, since there is no draft tube, the
                                    pod's closure, even when fully closed, is relatively open compared to
                                    a zipper, especially with a draft tube.

                                    This MIGHT be just enough super breathable area ( no down in the way)
                                    to allow most moisture to escape around/thru the Velco, without having
                                    to go thru the down first and possibly condensing there?

                                    Anybody here with lot's of experience fully closing the pod in really
                                    cold weather? Do you have much trouble with wet down, as we would
                                    normally expect?
                                    Bill

                                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Fox" <amendment2@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
                                    > thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
                                    > peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember
                                    it, you
                                    > got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head
                                    into the
                                    > polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod
                                    but the
                                    > hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On Behalf Of billybob38801
                                    > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
                                    > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
                                    > you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
                                    > even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
                                    > than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
                                    > still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.
                                    >
                                    > Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
                                    > I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
                                    > did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
                                    > least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
                                    > quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
                                    > blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
                                    > without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
                                    > with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
                                    > Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!
                                    >
                                    > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
                                    > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
                                    > means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
                                    > super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
                                    > impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
                                    > don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
                                    > added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
                                    > bottom warmth.
                                    >
                                    > Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
                                    > might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
                                    > pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.
                                    >
                                    > I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
                                    > side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
                                    > less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
                                    > any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
                                    > problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
                                    > why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
                                    > comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.
                                    >
                                    > Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
                                    > this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
                                    > much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
                                    > their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
                                    > PeaPod they were using.
                                    >
                                    > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@>
                                    wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
                                    > the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
                                    > about ideal.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > billybob38801 <billybob38801@> wrote:
                                    > > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
                                    > > couple of nights back.
                                    > >
                                    > > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
                                    > > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
                                    > > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
                                    > > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
                                    > > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
                                    > > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
                                    > > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
                                    > > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
                                    > > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
                                    > > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
                                    > >
                                    > > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
                                    > > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten
                                    older, I
                                    > > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
                                    > > about in the middle, but who knows?
                                    > >
                                    > > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
                                    > > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
                                    > > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
                                    > > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
                                    > > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was
                                    already 19*,
                                    > > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
                                    > > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional
                                    5* or
                                    > > a bit more.
                                    > >
                                    > > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1
                                    layer
                                    > > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on
                                    standby, neck
                                    > > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
                                    > > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
                                    > > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
                                    > > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original
                                    rating
                                    > > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
                                    > > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
                                    > > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I
                                    closed
                                    > > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the
                                    diagonal
                                    > > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
                                    > > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
                                    > > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite
                                    contact
                                    > > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
                                    > > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
                                    > > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail
                                    where I
                                    > > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see
                                    how it
                                    > > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
                                    > >
                                    > > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was
                                    starting to
                                    > > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
                                    > > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
                                    > > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not
                                    quite
                                    > > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
                                    > > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
                                    > > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as
                                    far as
                                    > > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
                                    > > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the
                                    hood
                                    > > back up.
                                    > >
                                    > > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
                                    > > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely
                                    cool,
                                    > > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
                                    > > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
                                    > > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
                                    > > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
                                    > > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly
                                    for me,
                                    > > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
                                    > > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
                                    > > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600,
                                    when
                                    > > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
                                    > > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
                                    > > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
                                    > > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom.
                                    I fell
                                    > > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
                                    > > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I
                                    looked at
                                    > > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
                                    > > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
                                    > >
                                    > > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
                                    > > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
                                    > > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
                                    > > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ---------------------------------
                                    > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Ed Speer
                                    Bill, I hope others will also respond to your question, but I ve never seen a serious problem with condensation when I ve closed my PeaPod completely. Of
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Bill, I hope others will also respond to your question, but I've never seen
                                      a serious problem with condensation when I've closed my PeaPod completely.
                                      Of course, some wetness does occur directly above my face, but it's a small
                                      price to pay for being snug & warm. I too have noticed that the wetness
                                      isn't as bad as I would have expected, perhaps because the PeaPod has
                                      breathable shells & my own body heat helps drive some of the moisture all
                                      the way out. I've had success reducing the wetness a bit by wearing the
                                      re-breather balaclava (forgot the brand name-Rick gear tested this item a
                                      year or so ago). A bandana over my mouth & nose does about the same thing &
                                      traps some of the moisture before it gets into the PeaPod. The PeaPod still
                                      gets a little wet, but this isn't a major problem even on week long trips.
                                      I've had my PeaPod get a whole lot wetter just from dew condensing on it on
                                      high-humidity nights, but this also seems to evaporate with no loss of
                                      warmth, again perhaps because my body warms the PeaPod again the next night,
                                      driving out any accumulated moisture. I've often thought of doing some
                                      weight tests to see if moisture continues to accumulate on multi-night use,
                                      but haven't yet-so I too am interested in other people's experience..Ed



                                      Moderator, Hammock Camping List

                                      Author, Hammock Camping book

                                      Editor, Hammock Camping Newsletters

                                      Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



                                      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of billybob38801
                                      Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 12:36 PM
                                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [SPAM]Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience



                                      That must have been JustJeff's PeaPod hood. It is a good idea. I have
                                      a very lofty separate Marmot hood that I can use for that purpose,
                                      though I have not tried it yet. It even has some velcro around the
                                      neck area that might match up with the scratchy side PeaPod Velcro.

                                      Also, if I was expecting consistent temps this cold(10*) or colder, I
                                      might use a light summer mummy bag, as I already do( winter weight
                                      though) when it's really cold and I'm in my HH SuperShelter. Then the
                                      hood and draft collar make any neck draft problem go away. Yes, I know
                                      it stinks trying to get in a mummy bag in a hammock, but I can do it
                                      now with minimal stuggle. And my experience has been that nothing is
                                      competitive with a mummy's hood/collar heat sealing abilities.

                                      But in this test, that "cool shoulders" due to a poor quilt fit pretty
                                      much disappeared when I closed the pod down from a 3-6 or so inch
                                      opening to all the way closed. There was a quick warm up then. Yes, I
                                      know, I worry about the condensation in the pod also. But I didn't
                                      really see any that was enough to decrease loft. There was a bit of
                                      dampness in the area just above my face, but again, there was still
                                      plenty of loft. But I wouldn't want to do this unless I could count on
                                      some sunshine to dry out the pod.

                                      I'm thinking we might be able to get away with this because of the
                                      Velcro closure? ( wild guess)IOW, since there is no draft tube, the
                                      pod's closure, even when fully closed, is relatively open compared to
                                      a zipper, especially with a draft tube.

                                      This MIGHT be just enough super breathable area ( no down in the way)
                                      to allow most moisture to escape around/thru the Velco, without having
                                      to go thru the down first and possibly condensing there?

                                      Anybody here with lot's of experience fully closing the pod in really
                                      cold weather? Do you have much trouble with wet down, as we would
                                      normally expect?
                                      Bill

                                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , "David Fox" <amendment2@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I remember reading that you got cold around your shoulders and I was
                                      > thinking I saw a pretty cool hood with Velcro that just attached to the
                                      > peapod so there was no actual opening open to the air. As I remember
                                      it, you
                                      > got into the hammock, closed the peapod up a bit, stuck your head
                                      into the
                                      > polar fleece hood so that your face was exhaling out of the peapod
                                      but the
                                      > hood kept out drafts. Looked cool to me.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> ]
                                      > On Behalf Of billybob38801
                                      > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 9:10 AM
                                      > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] update PeaPod experience
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hmm, it took me a minute to picture what you were saying, but I think
                                      > you are on to something. Best of both worlds. It would, of course, be
                                      > even more expensive than the normal PeaPod, but I guess no more so
                                      > than a Snugfit plus a separate top quilt or two No Snivelers. I'm
                                      > still looking forward to seeing some temp reports on the Snugfit.
                                      >
                                      > Though I'm still hoping I can get it adjusted just right. Once I do,
                                      > I'll just leave it in place. But what's amazing to me is how well I
                                      > did with a less than optimum ( apparently ) adjustment. Basically, at
                                      > least as good as rated, I believe. I mean, a summer weight bag as
                                      > quilt, some warm clothing( I've used more, believe me!)and a space
                                      > blanket, and I am adequate at 10* with a wind chill between 0* and 5*,
                                      > without any pads? What competing single product can beat that, even
                                      > with a perfect adjustment? I'm impressed. After all, I'm not
                                      > Mr.Antifreeze blood, AKA Neo!
                                      >
                                      > This thing is not perfect for me, and I hate that I can't use it with
                                      > my HH, for example, and it won't necessarily replace all of my other
                                      > means of keeping warm in a hammock. BUT, there is something just
                                      > super efficient about this thing when it comes to hammock warmth. My
                                      > impression is that reports I've seen with separate UQs plus top quilts
                                      > don't show as much warmth? And I can understand that on top, since I
                                      > added a thin quilt, which adds weight. But that shouldn't effect the
                                      > bottom warmth.
                                      >
                                      > Maybe it is the effect of being sealed in, like a mummy bag? Which
                                      > might be even more efficient using my separate Marmot hood outside the
                                      > pod, with the pod sealed around my neck.
                                      >
                                      > I also wonder if being sealed in, with loft closing all around the
                                      > side/top edges, decreases any cooling effect of small air gaps and
                                      > less than perfect fit underneath? I can see where it would decrease
                                      > any effect from breezes or air circulation, that might be more of a
                                      > problem with quilts top and bottom? I don't know, just guessing about
                                      > why this product seems to be warmer than you would think when
                                      > comparing it to similar products, weight wise and rated loft wise.
                                      >
                                      > Of course, I really kind of expected ( no, let's say "hoped for")
                                      > this. Due to having PMed a couple PeaPod users, who don't post very
                                      > much on the forums. Folks who had reported super good results with
                                      > their PeaPods on the trail. In all cases, better than rated for the
                                      > PeaPod they were using.
                                      >
                                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                                      <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com> , tim garner <slowhike@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > maybe ed & dave need to come up w/ a section that covers the top of
                                      > the hammock by velcroing to the snugfit quilt??? that may be just
                                      > about ideal.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > billybob38801 <billybob38801@> wrote:
                                      > > I thought I should post my most recent results in some real cold a
                                      > > couple of nights back.
                                      > >
                                      > > First, let me say that I am still having minor difficulties adjusting
                                      > > the "loft compression vs no air gap" conflict. IOW, it seems that if I
                                      > > adjust the PeaPod sag any where near where the pod barely contacts the
                                      > > hammock bottom with me in it- or even with a small gap, then I don't
                                      > > seem to have full loft right under my butt. So, I'm still working on
                                      > > that, and so far I can't quite figure it out. Also, I would like to
                                      > > know, if I can't have a very close fit without some loss of loft, then
                                      > > which should I sacrifice? Would I be better off with a air gap of an
                                      > > inch or two under my lowest point, and have full loft? Or the reverse,
                                      > > better off with a "snugfit" and some loss of loft of an inch or so?
                                      > >
                                      > > I should also say that I am probably an average sleeper temp wise. I
                                      > > used to be very hot natured, warm sleeper. But as I have gotten
                                      older, I
                                      > > definitely have much less tolerance for the cold. So, maybe I am now
                                      > > about in the middle, but who knows?
                                      > >
                                      > > Any way, the forecast low was 14-16*F. It was 11PM when I hung the
                                      > > hammock and put on the PeaPod by head lamp. Really quite easy to do, I
                                      > > just adjusted it for about the same distance from end knots as some
                                      > > previous experiments had shown to be correct. I was using a structural
                                      > > ridge line for consistent hang. Then I hung my tarp. It was
                                      already 19*,
                                      > > and by the time I did this I was starting to get quite a chill. There
                                      > > was also a bit of a wind chill all night, probably and additional
                                      5* or
                                      > > a bit more.
                                      > >
                                      > > So, I hopped in and Velcroed up. I had on light thin long johns, 1
                                      layer
                                      > > of medium wool socks with liner socks and vapor barrier on
                                      standby, neck
                                      > > gator, hat and Bozeman Mountain Works Cocoon Polargard pants ( 8 ozs )
                                      > > and hooded jacket ( 14 ozs.) that I had used on previous tests without
                                      > > quilt. But this time I added a 25 year old quallofil summer bag that
                                      > > has about 1-1.25 " SINGLE layer loft, used as quilt. The original
                                      rating
                                      > > was either 40* or 50*, I don't remember. And sense it was already 1*
                                      > > below the PeaPod's rating, I added a 2 oz space blanket to the pod,
                                      > > which covered the bottom and well up the sides of the hammock. I
                                      closed
                                      > > the Velcro down to about a 6" opening above my face, got on the
                                      diagonal
                                      > > a bit and tried to sleep, always tough for me to do in the back yard,
                                      > > for some reason. But not in the woods in a hammock, where I sleep like
                                      > > the dead! Once again, though it felt like the pod did not quite
                                      contact
                                      > > my low point ( very small gap), when I reached around the outside, it
                                      > > only felt like there was no more than 1 - 1.5" loft. I said to heck
                                      > > with it, as I figured there would be plenty of days on the trail
                                      where I
                                      > > would be too tired to fool with fine adjustments. Let's just see
                                      how it
                                      > > goes. I figured I would have to go in later, too cold.
                                      > >
                                      > > It took about 10 or 20 minutes before I realized that I was
                                      starting to
                                      > > over heat. So I let my hood down, and then I was just plenty warm, but
                                      > > not starting to sweat. I did my usual fitful backyard style sleeping,
                                      > > but plenty warm, I had to admit. Once during the night, I was not
                                      quite
                                      > > comfortable enough around my shoulders, having my usual trouble with
                                      > > draftiness when using a quilt, especially when I would move briefly to
                                      > > my side. I never have much luck using sleeping bags as quilts as
                                      far as
                                      > > drafts around the shoulders. But I would just snug the quilt up and be
                                      > > fine again until I moved too much, plus at some point I pulled the
                                      hood
                                      > > back up.
                                      > >
                                      > > Finally, I woke up at what I figured was about 0130 or 0230. I was no
                                      > > longer toasty warm, but I was not uncomfortably cold. Just barely
                                      cool,
                                      > > top and bottom. So I figured that's it, I'll go in and get some good
                                      > > sleep. It's probably about 16* and I have established my lower limit
                                      > > with this set-up. So I turned on my head lamp, looked at my watch, and
                                      > > lo and behold it was 0430! So I had made it through most of the night
                                      > > without getting uncomfortably cold, just barely cool. Amazingly
                                      for me,
                                      > > even though I had a big drink of water right before bed in hopes of
                                      > > staying hydrated in the cold, I had not even had to gt up and take a
                                      > > leak over 51/2 hours. So I decided to just ride it out until 0600,
                                      when
                                      > > I had to get up for work anyway. But as the night was nearly over, I
                                      > > decided to take a risk on condensation and closed the pod completely.
                                      > > Boy, that made a very noticeable difference pretty quickly. In a few
                                      > > minutes, I was agin warm on top, and still just ok on the bottom.
                                      I fell
                                      > > back asleep, but then car noises woke me up again at 0500, and now I
                                      > > realized I really did have to take a leak, so I just got up. I
                                      looked at
                                      > > my thermometer, and it read 10*! Plus, according to the weather folks,
                                      > > there was an intermittent wind chill of zero* to 5*.
                                      > >
                                      > > Folks, I don't know about you, but I think that is pretty darn good
                                      > > performance for that amount of gear in a hammock! It definitely worked
                                      > > as advertised. And I wonder if I can do better if I ever get better at
                                      > > getting a "snugfit" with out loft loss on the bottom?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ---------------------------------
                                      > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Cara Lin Bridgman
                                      ... This sort of condensation occurs on the ground with sleeping mats and in ordinary mummy-bags. I ve always saw it as one of the normal and unavoidable
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jan 7, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Ed Speer wrote:
                                        > but I've never seen a serious problem with condensation
                                        > when I've closed my PeaPod completely. Of course, some
                                        > wetness does occur directly above my face, but it's a small
                                        > price to pay for being snug & warm.


                                        This sort of condensation occurs on the ground with sleeping mats and in
                                        ordinary mummy-bags. I've always saw it as one of the normal and
                                        unavoidable parts of camping in the cold.

                                        CL
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