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Was tripping over black guylines: Now Stealth Hammock Camping

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  • Dave Womble
    ... there ... I ve never agreed with the stealth approach to hammock camping that I sometimes see people trying to achieve where they don t want to be seen in
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 9, 2007
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Cara Lin Bridgman
      <caralinb@...> wrote:
      >
      > First thing I did when I got my hammock was substitute all those black
      > lines and bungies for HOT PINK mason's twine. Even by doing that,
      there
      > isn't enough of the pink to mess with any stealth aspects of camping.
      > From a few meters away, neither the pink line nor the hammock are all
      > that noticeable.

      I've never agreed with the stealth approach to hammock camping that I
      sometimes see people trying to achieve where they don't want to be
      seen in plain site. I could understand that in a war zone where
      people are seeking you out to cause you harm. But I don't camp in a
      war zone, I often camp in forest that I share with hunters. To me,
      stealth camping is going off the trail where there are obstacles
      blocking the line of sight between me and the trail.

      I very much want to be seen when I am in someones line of sight.
      Sometimes I need to be able to find my setup when I have ventured off
      for one reason or another, like at night on New Years Eve on Springer
      Mountain when my hammock is setup off in the brush. But most
      important, I want hunters to see me if I am in their direct line of
      sight. For instance, when I take to the bushes to care of business I
      want a hunter to know its me behind that bush and I wear an orange hat
      and usually a bright red jacket when I go. Sometimes I will toss the
      red jacket on top of the bush I am behind. In my mind, there is such
      a thing as being to stealthy for your own good.

      Dave Womble
      aka Youngblood 2000
      designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
      WinterTarp
    • John Wilson
      ... Dave, red used to be a recommended safety color for hunters, but studies in the 70s showed that under certain lighting conditions, red shows up as brown
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 9, 2007
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        On Nov 9, 2007, at 08:48 , Dave Womble wrote:

        > I
        > want a hunter to know its me behind that bush and I wear an orange hat
        > and usually a bright red jacket when I go. Sometimes I will toss the
        > red jacket on top of the bush I am behind

        Dave, red used to be a recommended safety color for hunters, but
        studies in the '70s showed that under certain lighting conditions,
        red shows up as brown (which you don't want). That's when wildlife
        agencies switched to recommending (and even mandating) "hunter"
        orange as the only safety color. It's a color that doesn't occur in
        nature and even in dim light can't be mistaken for anything else.

        John (retired F&W public information officer).



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Womble
        ... John, Thanks for that info, I didn t know that about red showing up as brown in certain lighting conditions. What lighting conditions are those, daybreak
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 9, 2007
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, John Wilson <navjohn@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Nov 9, 2007, at 08:48 , Dave Womble wrote:
          >
          > > I
          > > want a hunter to know its me behind that bush and I wear an orange hat
          > > and usually a bright red jacket when I go. Sometimes I will toss the
          > > red jacket on top of the bush I am behind
          >
          > Dave, red used to be a recommended safety color for hunters, but
          > studies in the '70s showed that under certain lighting conditions,
          > red shows up as brown (which you don't want). That's when wildlife
          > agencies switched to recommending (and even mandating) "hunter"
          > orange as the only safety color. It's a color that doesn't occur in
          > nature and even in dim light can't be mistaken for anything else.
          >
          > John (retired F&W public information officer).
          >

          John,

          Thanks for that info, I didn't know that about red showing up as brown
          in certain lighting conditions. What lighting conditions are those,
          daybreak and/or sunset? I, of course, knew about orange being the
          safety color that was used today but also didn't know that red was
          once recommended.

          I live in Georgia and we had an accident along the Appalachian Trail a
          few years ago where a teenage girl was accidentally shot by a hunter.
          I'm thinking that was around daybreak when she left the group she was
          camping with and went off into the bushes to relieve herself. I don't
          know if white tissue paper played a roll in that or not but that whole
          incident got me seriously rethinking what I did out there. I have
          been woken up by hunters walking right by my hammock at daybreak
          before and they were right on me before they realized I was there. I
          was using a brown tarp and hammock in those days that probably weren't
          all that visible in the early light.

          Dave Womble
          aka Youngblood 2000
          designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
          WinterTarp
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • John Wilson
          Yes, general dim-light conditions -- dawn, dusk, or heavy overcast -- is when red can turn into brown. Yellow also used to be a recommended safety color, but
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 9, 2007
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            Yes, general dim-light conditions -- dawn, dusk, or heavy overcast --
            is when red can turn into brown. Yellow also used to be a
            recommended safety color, but it was found that it can show up as
            white -- another good color to avoid when deer hunters are around.
            One of the strangest "mistaken for game" cases I ever encountered was
            a hunter who was taking a break and drinking a Pepsi when another
            hunter shot him, thinking the Pepsi can bobbing up and down was a
            turkey's head! If you look at the colors in a tom turkey's head,
            there is a resemblance. Fortunately, the victim wasn't seriously
            injured, unlike another hunter who put a brown plastic garbage bag
            (for a raincoat) over his hunter orange vest, with fatal results.

            I was driving through the Ocala National Forest once during deer
            season and saw a deer up ahead of me, running down the side of the
            road in the same direction I was going. As I got closer, it morphed
            into a jogger with a deer-brown tan. He had taken his white tee
            shirt off and stuck it down the back of his shorts. where it was
            flopping around like a deer's tail. That episode really shook me,
            because if I had been in a tree with a rifle instead of driving down
            the road, I would have shot him, the illusion was that real.

            The moral is to be very careful when you're sharing the woods with
            hunters. You never know what you (or your hammock) will look like to
            them.

            John


            On Nov 9, 2007, at 10:40 , Dave Womble wrote:

            > Thanks for that info, I didn't know that about red showing up as brown
            > in certain lighting conditions. What lighting conditions are those,
            > daybreak and/or sunset?



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Catherine
            As a woman, I generally try to stealth camp for safety reason, especially if I m near a logging road or four wheeler trail (which, unfortunately, cannot always
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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              As a woman, I generally try to stealth camp for safety reason,
              especially if I'm near a logging road or four wheeler trail (which,
              unfortunately, cannot always be avoided). I'm much more afraid of
              humans than bears, especially gangs of teenagers going into the woods
              to get drunk and vandalize lean-tos. But I don't hike in areas where
              hunting is permitted during hunting season.

              Catherine
            • Cara Lin Bridgman
              Yeppers! The most dangerous thing out there walks on two legs. If equipped with alcohol, drugs, or guns, then it becomes dangerously unpredictable. Stealth
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 12, 2007
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                Yeppers! The most dangerous thing out there walks on two legs. If
                equipped with alcohol, drugs, or guns, then it becomes dangerously
                unpredictable.

                Stealth can be a really good thing. Even so, I don't think my hot pink
                guy lines are going to make that much of a difference.

                CL

                Catherine wrote:
                > As a woman, I generally try to stealth camp for safety reason,
                > especially if I'm near a logging road or four wheeler trail (which,
                > unfortunately, cannot always be avoided). I'm much more afraid of
                > humans than bears, especially gangs of teenagers going into the woods
                > to get drunk and vandalize lean-tos. But I don't hike in areas where
                > hunting is permitted during hunting season.

                Please note my new-old email address: caralinb@...
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                Cara Lin Bridgman

                P.O. Box 013 Phone: 886-4-2632-5484
                Longjing Sinjhuang
                Taichung County 434
                Taiwan http://megaview.com.tw/~caralin/
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              • Dave Womble
                ... Wow, I hadn t thought of it that way. There are occasionally situations where I don t want to be seen, and then I just get off the trail a little ways in
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 13, 2007
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Catherine <cproulx@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > As a woman, I generally try to stealth camp for safety reason,
                  > especially if I'm near a logging road or four wheeler trail (which,
                  > unfortunately, cannot always be avoided). I'm much more afraid of
                  > humans than bears, especially gangs of teenagers going into the woods
                  > to get drunk and vandalize lean-tos. But I don't hike in areas where
                  > hunting is permitted during hunting season.
                  >
                  > Catherine
                  >

                  Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. There are occasionally
                  situations where I don't want to be seen, and then I just get off the
                  trail a little ways in an area that seems secluded.

                  I was backpacking with Joe a few weeks ago and ran into a similar
                  situation, one that I have never had before. We had carried extra
                  water and was going to set up camp when we found a descent spot for
                  setting up our hammocks on the mountain we were fixing to go over. It
                  got late and we found ourselves at a gap where a forest service road
                  kisses the trail without finding a good spot to hang. I was thinking
                  about camping there and Joe wouldn't have any part of that because
                  there was trash, mostly beer cans, where some partying had recently
                  been going on. I have camped in gaps like that before in plain site
                  but Joe had a good point and I remembered that there was creek down a
                  side trail or old roadbed on the topo maps so we ended up in a gully a
                  few 100 yards in that direction.

                  We got woke up about 1am in the morning by about two dozen rounds
                  fired off in a few single fire rapid bursts, coming from the direction
                  of that gap. We were down low and never heard any rounds whizzing by
                  or hitting anything but it was obviously a little unnerving. We
                  didn't shout out that we were down there... I wasn't quite sure I
                  wanted to do that or not or whether we were even close enough to be
                  heard. We went back to that gap early the morning and no one was
                  there so I don't know for sure what happened.

                  That was on the AT in Georgia in the area where the Army Rangers have
                  maneuvers. I have seen them at that very same gap before and last
                  January I was planning on setting up camp when I was hiking in the
                  area where Joe and I ended up camping but couldn't/didn't because the
                  Rangers were on maneuvers that day and told me they were going to camp
                  there when I mentioned that to them. So, it could have been Rangers
                  or someone else. Joe and I found a couple of discarded ammo belts on
                  the side of the trail of that area that were army issue, one was empty
                  and the other had live blanks. I've heard many accounts over the years
                  of campers having the daylights scared out of them by the Rangers
                  running around firing off rounds in the middle of the night in that
                  area. It was probably the Rangers firing off the rounds that night
                  and some high school kids that tossed the beer cans, but I don't know
                  for sure. We did see a group of high school age kids walking the
                  forest service road a day or two later that was picking up trash and
                  the beer cans were gone when we passed by that gap on our way out.

                  After saying all that, I don't think it mattered whether I had a
                  visible campsite in plain site or a campsite that was hard to see in
                  plain site since we weren't in plain site of whoever that was. But if
                  we had camped at the gap it would have made a difference and in this
                  case we would obviously have wanted to be seen with gunfire involved,
                  whether it was live rounds from who-knows-who or Army Rangers on
                  maneuvers with blanks. Now if it was folks like out of the movie
                  "Deliverance", that would be a different matter. Speaking of that
                  movie, I have camped on the Chattooga River where some of that movie
                  was filmed many times, including a few nights after that incident, and
                  have never met anyone remotely threatening in anyway what so ever.

                  Dave Womble
                  aka Youngblood 2000
                  designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                  WinterTarp.
                • Bill Keiser
                  ... ############ bs - i would have taken those belts down to the local army base or wherever they come from and toss them on a desk and file a complaint for
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 14, 2007
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                    > We got woke up about 1am in the morning by about two dozen rounds
                    > fired off in a few single fire rapid bursts, . . .

                    > . . . Joe and I found a couple of discarded ammo belts on
                    > the side of the trail of that area that were army issue, one was empty
                    > and the other had live blanks.
                    ############ bs - i would have taken those belts down to the local
                    army base or wherever they come from and toss them on a desk and file
                    a complaint for inappropriate shooting AND littering.

                    > . . . Now if it was folks like out of the movie
                    > "Deliverance", that would be a different matter. Speaking of that
                    > movie, I have camped on the Chattooga River where some of that movie
                    > was filmed many times, including a few nights after that incident, and
                    > have never met anyone remotely threatening in anyway what so ever.
                    ############ bs - that's what everyone says, those who come back out
                    anyway.
                  • Nightwalker
                    ... FHT, or further South? Frank Looper/Nightwalker
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 14, 2007
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                      >Speaking of that
                      > movie, I have camped on the Chattooga River where some of that movie
                      > was filmed many times, including a few nights after that incident, and
                      > have never met anyone remotely threatening in anyway what so ever.
                      >
                      > Dave Womble
                      > aka Youngblood 2000
                      > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                      > WinterTarp.
                      >
                      FHT, or further South?

                      Frank Looper/Nightwalker
                    • Dave Womble
                      ... The Chattooga Trail encompasses the Foothills Trail and the Bartram Trail along the Chattooga River. I ve backpacked all of them along the river at one
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 14, 2007
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Nightwalker
                        <Nightwalker.AT@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >Speaking of that
                        > > movie, I have camped on the Chattooga River where some of that movie
                        > > was filmed many times, including a few nights after that incident, and
                        > > have never met anyone remotely threatening in anyway what so ever.
                        > >
                        > > Dave Womble
                        > > aka Youngblood 2000
                        > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                        > > WinterTarp.
                        > >
                        > FHT, or further South?
                        >
                        > Frank Looper/Nightwalker
                        >

                        The Chattooga Trail encompasses the Foothills Trail and the Bartram
                        Trail along the Chattooga River. I've backpacked all of them along
                        the river at one time or another. The Chattooga Trail goes south from
                        the GA/NC/SC border about 37 miles to US76.

                        Dave
                      • rod hamilton
                        I recently purchased the Explorer Deluxe Hennessy hammock and have two nights of suspended animation (Ha!) under my belt (butt?). Although I know I have a lot
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 16, 2007
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                          I recently purchased the Explorer Deluxe Hennessy hammock and have two nights of suspended animation (Ha!) under my belt (butt?). Although I know I have a lot yet to learn, I'm sold. As is my camping buddy. (He's waiting for Christmas, hoping for a Lawson.)

                          My initial attraction was the compact nature of the HH, as I dream of some long distance, motorcycle camping. The idea of replacing my sleeping bag with the Undercover and Underpad sounds great; provided they fold up better than a sleeping bag.

                          Any thoughts on this from the group? On motorcycle camping in general? Or the merits of the Hennessy vs Lawson hammock tents?

                          Thanks in advance. Rhtreo




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                        • Jeff Ross
                          I also have a Hennesey Explorer with the undercover. When I stow it I just leave it all rigged and cram the hammock, undercover foam and nylon, ropes, guy
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 19, 2007
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                            I also have a Hennesey Explorer with the undercover. When I stow it
                            I just leave it all rigged and cram the hammock, undercover foam and
                            nylon, ropes, guy lines, everything into the stuff sack. Unfishing
                            all the guy lines, disassembling everything, and then putting it all
                            back together next time is just too much for me. I guess I'm just
                            lazy. But it seems to work ok that way for me. I don't think the
                            original stuff sack that held the hammock and rain fly was big
                            enough to do this way. I think I've got a bigger one now. The rain
                            fly and some plastic stakes, bungies, and the tree saver straps go
                            together in the original stuff sack.

                            One thing I've learned the hard way is to use small bungies to
                            attach my guy lines to the stakes, rocks or tree limbs. When I (or
                            one of my packgoats) stumbles across a guy line in the dark, the
                            bungies keep the lines and hammock or rainfly nylon from getting
                            tore up. If you're not a clumsy oaf like me, tho, you may not need
                            to do this.



                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, rod hamilton <rhtreo@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I recently purchased the Explorer Deluxe Hennessy hammock and
                            have two nights of suspended animation (Ha!) under my belt (butt?).
                            Although I know I have a lot yet to learn, I'm sold. As is my
                            camping buddy. (He's waiting for Christmas, hoping for a Lawson.)
                            >
                            > My initial attraction was the compact nature of the HH, as I
                            dream of some long distance, motorcycle camping. The idea of
                            replacing my sleeping bag with the Undercover and Underpad sounds
                            great; provided they fold up better than a sleeping bag.
                            >
                            > Any thoughts on this from the group? On motorcycle camping in
                            general? Or the merits of the Hennessy vs Lawson hammock tents?
                            >
                            > Thanks in advance. Rhtreo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
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                            See how.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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