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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

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  • Nightwalker
    ... My thoughts exactly. What s the harm?
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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      > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
      > harm? the gnome
      >
      >
      > the gnome of blue island
      > __________________________________________________
      My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?
    • list@moz.geek.nz
      ... The harm in poor research is that it s often reported only in summary form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to poor rules. In
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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        >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats
        >> the

        The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary
        form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to
        poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered
        to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report
        falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political
        points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement
        bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour
        (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.

        I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad
        in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong
        argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're
        not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the
        list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves
        a dialog...

        Moz
      • Ralph Oborn
        Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive! (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good positive way to spread
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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          Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive!
          (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good
          positive way to spread information about hammock camping.

          If you feel the initial request is misguided, what would you suggest?

          If you were to design research properly, what would you be looking at?


          I agree with Moz, research involves a dialog




          Franc and team: talk to us, we have some suggestions.

          Ralph Oborn


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tod Massa
          Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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            Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject protocols required by the feds to be in place at all US institutions receiving federal funds and thus a complain could put those funds at risk ...regardless whether or not funded researchers were involved.



            It's just good practice to stop bad research practice...other folks can get hurt.

            There are those of us on the list who make our living doing and supporting academic research, and we can help.

            Tod
            ______________________________________________________________________________

            Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.



            ----- Original Message ----

            From: "list@..." <list@...>

            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:11:43 PM

            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks



            >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats

            >> the



            The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary

            form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to

            poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered

            to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report

            falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political

            points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement

            bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour

            (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.



            I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad

            in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong

            argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're

            not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the

            list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves

            a dialog...



            Moz





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          • pure mahem
            Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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              Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial low impact on tree to hammock connection possible, hmmm!JMO from what's been said. If I were at a university and looking to do research on leave no trace hammock connections I don't know if I would necessarily do an official request to get random results of what types of connections people are using. Someone read way to far into this. I use a 2" poly strap conected to the byers of maine micro adjuster. don't know the angle


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Nightwalker <Nightwalker.AT@...>
              To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:54:33 PM
              Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

              > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
              > harm? the gnome
              >
              >
              > the gnome of blue island
              > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
              My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?




              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • amendment2@aol.com
              I don t do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it s doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of hammocks on
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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                I don't do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it's
                doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of
                hammocks on trees. I asked folks at Oregon State University to comment on what
                effect hammocks would have on the tree. There was nothing scientific quoted from
                Leave no trace institute or OSU. They "felt" there would be no harmful
                effects.



                ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Francois
                ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for éthique de l environnement at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I m doing a bachelor in
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 31, 2007
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                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, John Wilson <navjohn@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I question the legitimacy of this post. I would think a request
                  > from a university:
                  > 1. Would originate from an .edu email site, and not hotmail,
                  > 2. Would be better written, not containing phrases like "doing a
                  > university research," and
                  > 3. Would not exhibit misspelled words.
                  >
                  > Perhaps a little more explanation is in order before we respond.
                  >
                  > John

                  Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                  l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                  doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                  the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                  for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                  -Franc
                • Sandy Kramer
                  ... How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure Tourism. sandy kramer miami
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 1, 2007
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                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
                    wrote:
                    >> >
                    > > University of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                    > doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''.

                    How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure
                    Tourism.

                    sandy kramer
                    miami
                  • Nightwalker
                    Franc, don t worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that... ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 2, 2007
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                      Franc, don't worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that...

                      :-)


                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                      l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                      doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                      the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                      for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                      -Franc


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