## Re: [Hammock Camping] leave no trace research on hammocks

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• On 10/29/07, C C Wayah wrote: Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would think.. I don t think there s a
Message 1 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
On 10/29/07, C C Wayah <ccwayah@...> wrote:

Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would
think.. I don't think there's a hammock alive that is horizontal to the
tree it's hung from.
Unless it s the tent platform that is wratched to the tree.
Distance apart the trees are and the sag of the hammock
with a lot of other variables such as your weight how tight you stretched
the hammock all are variables to concider.

Sure it is, I weigh about 200 lbs, assume half my weight is supported by
each support rope.

If I was hanging veritcally (straight down there would be1 00 lbs of force
on each rope (and each tree).
If the angle at the trees was 45° there would be 141 lbs of force on each
rope (and the tree).
100 lbs vertically down, 100 lbs horizontally in, with a vector sum of 141
lbs along the rope.
Different angles would have different forces on the tree.

Ralph

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• ... My thoughts exactly. What s the harm?
Message 2 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
> harm? the gnome
>
>
> the gnome of blue island
> __________________________________________________
My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?
• ... The harm in poor research is that it s often reported only in summary form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to poor rules. In
Message 3 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
>> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats
>> the

The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary
form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to
poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered
to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report
falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political
points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement
bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour
(hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.

I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad
in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong
argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're
not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the
list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves
a dialog...

Moz
• Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive! (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good positive way to spread
Message 4 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive!
(not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good

If you feel the initial request is misguided, what would you suggest?

If you were to design research properly, what would you be looking at?

I agree with Moz, research involves a dialog

Franc and team: talk to us, we have some suggestions.

Ralph Oborn

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• Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject
Message 5 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject protocols required by the feds to be in place at all US institutions receiving federal funds and thus a complain could put those funds at risk ...regardless whether or not funded researchers were involved.

It's just good practice to stop bad research practice...other folks can get hurt.

There are those of us on the list who make our living doing and supporting academic research, and we can help.

Tod
______________________________________________________________________________

Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.

----- Original Message ----

From: "list@..." <list@...>

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:11:43 PM

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

>> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats

>> the

The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary

form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to

poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered

to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report

falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political

points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement

bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour

(hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.

I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad

in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong

argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're

not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the

list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves

a dialog...

Moz

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• Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial
Message 6 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial low impact on tree to hammock connection possible, hmmm!JMO from what's been said. If I were at a university and looking to do research on leave no trace hammock connections I don't know if I would necessarily do an official request to get random results of what types of connections people are using. Someone read way to far into this. I use a 2" poly strap conected to the byers of maine micro adjuster. don't know the angle

----- Original Message ----
From: Nightwalker <Nightwalker.AT@...>
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:54:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
> harm? the gnome
>
>
> the gnome of blue island
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• I don t do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it s doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of hammocks on
Message 7 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
I don't do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it's
doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of
hammocks on trees. I asked folks at Oregon State University to comment on what
effect hammocks would have on the tree. There was nothing scientific quoted from
Leave no trace institute or OSU. They "felt" there would be no harmful
effects.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for éthique de l environnement at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I m doing a bachelor in
Message 8 of 21 , Oct 31, 2007
--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, John Wilson <navjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I question the legitimacy of this post. I would think a request
> from a university:
> 1. Would originate from an .edu email site, and not hotmail,
> 2. Would be better written, not containing phrases like "doing a
> university research," and
> 3. Would not exhibit misspelled words.
>
> Perhaps a little more explanation is in order before we respond.
>
> John

Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
for 3 years and used my own log-in.
-Franc
• ... How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure Tourism. sandy kramer miami
Message 9 of 21 , Nov 1, 2007
--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
wrote:
>> >
> > University of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
> doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''.

Tourism.

sandy kramer
miami
• Franc, don t worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that... ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for
Message 10 of 21 , Nov 2, 2007
Franc, don't worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that...

:-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
for 3 years and used my own log-in.
-Franc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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