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Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

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  • the gnome of blue island
    so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
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      so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the harm? the gnome


      the gnome of blue island
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    • cuicui97
      ... vertical??) ... I, too, am skeptical. Perhaps a little more info would serve to inspire confidence. What school is involved? What is the name and number
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > We're doing a university reseach about the impact of hammocks on trees
        > and we need your help! Please take a few seconds to tell us:
        > 1- what type of rope/strap you use and the size
        > 2-What is the perfect rope angle for confort (45 degrees from
        vertical??)
        >
        > We will let you know at the end of our research what combination as
        > the least impact and on what kind of trees.
        > Thanks in advance!
        > -Franc and team «leave no trace»
        >
        I, too, am skeptical. Perhaps a little more info would serve to
        inspire confidence. What school is involved? What is the name and
        number of the course? Who is the instructor? How is impact to be
        guaged?
      • Ralph Oborn
        On 10/29/07, C C Wayah wrote: Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would think.. I don t think there s a
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
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          On 10/29/07, C C Wayah <ccwayah@...> wrote:

          Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would
          think.. I don't think there's a hammock alive that is horizontal to the
          tree it's hung from.
          Unless it s the tent platform that is wratched to the tree.
          Distance apart the trees are and the sag of the hammock
          with a lot of other variables such as your weight how tight you stretched
          the hammock all are variables to concider.


          Sure it is, I weigh about 200 lbs, assume half my weight is supported by
          each support rope.

          If I was hanging veritcally (straight down there would be1 00 lbs of force
          on each rope (and each tree).
          If the angle at the trees was 45° there would be 141 lbs of force on each
          rope (and the tree).
          100 lbs vertically down, 100 lbs horizontally in, with a vector sum of 141
          lbs along the rope.
          Different angles would have different forces on the tree.


          Ralph


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nightwalker
          ... My thoughts exactly. What s the harm?
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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            > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
            > harm? the gnome
            >
            >
            > the gnome of blue island
            > __________________________________________________
            My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?
          • list@moz.geek.nz
            ... The harm in poor research is that it s often reported only in summary form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to poor rules. In
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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              >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats
              >> the

              The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary
              form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to
              poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered
              to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report
              falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political
              points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement
              bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour
              (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.

              I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad
              in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong
              argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're
              not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the
              list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves
              a dialog...

              Moz
            • Ralph Oborn
              Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive! (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good positive way to spread
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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                Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive!
                (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good
                positive way to spread information about hammock camping.

                If you feel the initial request is misguided, what would you suggest?

                If you were to design research properly, what would you be looking at?


                I agree with Moz, research involves a dialog




                Franc and team: talk to us, we have some suggestions.

                Ralph Oborn


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tod Massa
                Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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                  Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject protocols required by the feds to be in place at all US institutions receiving federal funds and thus a complain could put those funds at risk ...regardless whether or not funded researchers were involved.



                  It's just good practice to stop bad research practice...other folks can get hurt.

                  There are those of us on the list who make our living doing and supporting academic research, and we can help.

                  Tod
                  ______________________________________________________________________________

                  Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.



                  ----- Original Message ----

                  From: "list@..." <list@...>

                  To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

                  Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:11:43 PM

                  Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks



                  >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats

                  >> the



                  The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary

                  form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to

                  poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered

                  to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report

                  falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political

                  points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement

                  bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour

                  (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.



                  I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad

                  in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong

                  argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're

                  not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the

                  list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves

                  a dialog...



                  Moz





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                • pure mahem
                  Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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                    Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial low impact on tree to hammock connection possible, hmmm!JMO from what's been said. If I were at a university and looking to do research on leave no trace hammock connections I don't know if I would necessarily do an official request to get random results of what types of connections people are using. Someone read way to far into this. I use a 2" poly strap conected to the byers of maine micro adjuster. don't know the angle


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Nightwalker <Nightwalker.AT@...>
                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:54:33 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

                    > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
                    > harm? the gnome
                    >
                    >
                    > the gnome of blue island
                    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                    My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?




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                  • amendment2@aol.com
                    I don t do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it s doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of hammocks on
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
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                      I don't do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it's
                      doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of
                      hammocks on trees. I asked folks at Oregon State University to comment on what
                      effect hammocks would have on the tree. There was nothing scientific quoted from
                      Leave no trace institute or OSU. They "felt" there would be no harmful
                      effects.



                      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


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                    • Francois
                      ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for éthique de l environnement at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I m doing a bachelor in
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 31, 2007
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                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, John Wilson <navjohn@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I question the legitimacy of this post. I would think a request
                        > from a university:
                        > 1. Would originate from an .edu email site, and not hotmail,
                        > 2. Would be better written, not containing phrases like "doing a
                        > university research," and
                        > 3. Would not exhibit misspelled words.
                        >
                        > Perhaps a little more explanation is in order before we respond.
                        >
                        > John

                        Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                        l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                        doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                        the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                        for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                        -Franc
                      • Sandy Kramer
                        ... How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure Tourism. sandy kramer miami
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 1, 2007
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                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
                          wrote:
                          >> >
                          > > University of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                          > doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''.

                          How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure
                          Tourism.

                          sandy kramer
                          miami
                        • Nightwalker
                          Franc, don t worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that... ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 2, 2007
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                            Franc, don't worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that...

                            :-)


                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                            l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                            doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                            the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                            for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                            -Franc


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