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Re: [Hammock Camping] leave no trace research on hammocks

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  • C C Wayah
    We re doing a university reseach about the impact of hammocks on trees and we need your help! Please take a few seconds to tell us: 1- what type of rope/strap
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
      We're doing a university reseach about the impact of hammocks on trees and
      we need your help! Please take a few seconds to tell us:

      1- what type of rope/strap you use and the size
      2-What is the perfect rope angle for confort (45 degrees from vertical??)

      Without studying the trees long term for damage how can you know what is
      best. One night on a tree may not show damage untill weeks and months from
      when it was used
      so the hiker is not there to observe.

      Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would
      think.. I don't think there's a hammock alive that is horizontal to the
      tree it's hung from.
      Unless it s the tent platform that is wratched to the tree.
      Distance apart the trees are and the sag of the hammock
      with a lot of other variables such as your weight how tight you stretched
      the hammock all are variables to concider.

      Angle of the rope sides against the tree may not be under exacting controll
      for a defintive study and different barks such as smoothed barked trees
      verse rough barked trees may be an issue too.
      .
      That being said I use the tree huggers from Ton Hennesy.
      Angles varry each time it's used acodrding to the disance of the trees and
      how taught I hung the hammock. I don';t have a level on my hammock for
      complete data records.

      Rogene
    • the gnome of blue island
      so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
        so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the harm? the gnome


        the gnome of blue island
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      • cuicui97
        ... vertical??) ... I, too, am skeptical. Perhaps a little more info would serve to inspire confidence. What school is involved? What is the name and number
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > We're doing a university reseach about the impact of hammocks on trees
          > and we need your help! Please take a few seconds to tell us:
          > 1- what type of rope/strap you use and the size
          > 2-What is the perfect rope angle for confort (45 degrees from
          vertical??)
          >
          > We will let you know at the end of our research what combination as
          > the least impact and on what kind of trees.
          > Thanks in advance!
          > -Franc and team «leave no trace»
          >
          I, too, am skeptical. Perhaps a little more info would serve to
          inspire confidence. What school is involved? What is the name and
          number of the course? Who is the instructor? How is impact to be
          guaged?
        • Ralph Oborn
          On 10/29/07, C C Wayah wrote: Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would think.. I don t think there s a
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 29, 2007
            On 10/29/07, C C Wayah <ccwayah@...> wrote:

            Angle is not specific enough to answer properly/scientificaly I would
            think.. I don't think there's a hammock alive that is horizontal to the
            tree it's hung from.
            Unless it s the tent platform that is wratched to the tree.
            Distance apart the trees are and the sag of the hammock
            with a lot of other variables such as your weight how tight you stretched
            the hammock all are variables to concider.


            Sure it is, I weigh about 200 lbs, assume half my weight is supported by
            each support rope.

            If I was hanging veritcally (straight down there would be1 00 lbs of force
            on each rope (and each tree).
            If the angle at the trees was 45° there would be 141 lbs of force on each
            rope (and the tree).
            100 lbs vertically down, 100 lbs horizontally in, with a vector sum of 141
            lbs along the rope.
            Different angles would have different forces on the tree.


            Ralph


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nightwalker
            ... My thoughts exactly. What s the harm?
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
              > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
              > harm? the gnome
              >
              >
              > the gnome of blue island
              > __________________________________________________
              My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?
            • list@moz.geek.nz
              ... The harm in poor research is that it s often reported only in summary form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to poor rules. In
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
                >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats
                >> the

                The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary
                form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to
                poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered
                to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report
                falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political
                points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement
                bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour
                (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.

                I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad
                in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong
                argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're
                not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the
                list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves
                a dialog...

                Moz
              • Ralph Oborn
                Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive! (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good positive way to spread
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
                  Hey folks, lets keep the discussion happy and positive!
                  (not meaning to disrespect anybody) but Ed set up this list as a good
                  positive way to spread information about hammock camping.

                  If you feel the initial request is misguided, what would you suggest?

                  If you were to design research properly, what would you be looking at?


                  I agree with Moz, research involves a dialog




                  Franc and team: talk to us, we have some suggestions.

                  Ralph Oborn


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tod Massa
                  Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
                    Further, if this is from a US institution, since it is survey research with no promise of anonymity, there is a good chance it violates the human subject protocols required by the feds to be in place at all US institutions receiving federal funds and thus a complain could put those funds at risk ...regardless whether or not funded researchers were involved.



                    It's just good practice to stop bad research practice...other folks can get hurt.

                    There are those of us on the list who make our living doing and supporting academic research, and we can help.

                    Tod
                    ______________________________________________________________________________

                    Ain't got no mo' mojo, but I got plenty o' banjo.



                    ----- Original Message ----

                    From: "list@..." <list@...>

                    To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:11:43 PM

                    Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks



                    >> so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats

                    >> the



                    The harm in poor research is that it's often reported only in summary

                    form, so poor research becomes poor conclusions and often leads to

                    poor rules. In this case, since not enough information is gathered

                    to justify any conclusion, it's possible that whatever the report

                    falsely concludes will be used to make rules (or at least political

                    points) that have no bearing on facts. Specifically, reinforcement

                    bias will mean it's used primarily by opponents of deviant behaviour

                    (hammock camping) to justify bans. Which would be bad.



                    I also oppose it simply becuase it's poor research. Which is bad

                    in and of itself. Poor research can only be justified by a strong

                    argument that the proposed research is the best possible. We're

                    not seeing that here, just two inane questions dumped into the

                    list then left unsupported. If nothing else, research involves

                    a dialog...



                    Moz





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                  • pure mahem
                    Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
                      Maybe there just curious of what kinds of hammock attachments to test and not particularly interested in you in particular. So as to find the most benificial low impact on tree to hammock connection possible, hmmm!JMO from what's been said. If I were at a university and looking to do research on leave no trace hammock connections I don't know if I would necessarily do an official request to get random results of what types of connections people are using. Someone read way to far into this. I use a 2" poly strap conected to the byers of maine micro adjuster. don't know the angle


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Nightwalker <Nightwalker.AT@...>
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:54:33 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: leave no trace research on hammocks

                      > so it is not written perfectly, perhaps someone is just curious< whats the
                      > harm? the gnome
                      >
                      >
                      > the gnome of blue island
                      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                      My thoughts exactly. What's the harm?




                      __________________________________________________
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                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • amendment2@aol.com
                      I don t do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it s doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of hammocks on
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 30, 2007
                        I don't do research, just a hammock owner. Before Trailplace closed it's
                        doors recently, I was attempting to get some information on the effect of
                        hammocks on trees. I asked folks at Oregon State University to comment on what
                        effect hammocks would have on the tree. There was nothing scientific quoted from
                        Leave no trace institute or OSU. They "felt" there would be no harmful
                        effects.



                        ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Francois
                        ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for éthique de l environnement at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I m doing a bachelor in
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 31, 2007
                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, John Wilson <navjohn@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I question the legitimacy of this post. I would think a request
                          > from a university:
                          > 1. Would originate from an .edu email site, and not hotmail,
                          > 2. Would be better written, not containing phrases like "doing a
                          > university research," and
                          > 3. Would not exhibit misspelled words.
                          >
                          > Perhaps a little more explanation is in order before we respond.
                          >
                          > John

                          Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                          l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                          doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                          the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                          for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                          -Franc
                        • Sandy Kramer
                          ... How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure Tourism. sandy kramer miami
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 1, 2007
                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Francois" <franczazou@...>
                            wrote:
                            >> >
                            > > University of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                            > doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''.

                            How interesting, an undergraduate program in Outdoors and Adventure
                            Tourism.

                            sandy kramer
                            miami
                          • Nightwalker
                            Franc, don t worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that... ... Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 2, 2007
                              Franc, don't worry. Some people see black helicopters under every rock. Or something like that...

                              :-)


                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              Good point. The project is a 90 hour research for ''éthique de
                              l'environnement'' at the niversity of Chicoutimi (Quebec)where I'm
                              doing a bachelor in ''Plein air et tourisme d'aventure''. Sorry about
                              the mistakes but my english is not so good. I've been a member here
                              for 3 years and used my own log-in.
                              -Franc


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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