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Re: Best material for making quilts for use inside the hammock

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  • rghickma
    Dave, Thank you for your inputs on the materials. If I don t get the DWR coating on my rip stop would I be making a poor decision? To address your question on
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 4, 2007
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      Dave,

      Thank you for your inputs on the materials. If I don't get the DWR
      coating on my rip stop would I be making a poor decision?

      To address your question on insulation choicesÂ… I used the
      Climashield Combat for my cocoon and I really liked how it handled
      and stayed put. When making the cocoon it felt comfortable without
      being too much for warm weather. Then when looking at making a nice
      thick quilt for use in cold weather, I was thinking that I didn't
      want to have more than two layers of the insulation and that the
      best temperature rating would then be provided by the 5oz
      Climashield XP.

      So the short answer is, I am considering these combinations based on
      perceived comfort and that I have had my hands on one Climashield
      product as my only justification. I would be curious if there are
      other insulations that provide equal or better handling properties
      and better warmth that I should entertained.

      /Rodney
    • Dave Womble
      Rodney, I don t know that not using ripstop nylon with DWR would be a poor decision on your part or not with your synthetic insulation and your application.
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 9, 2007
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        Rodney,

        I don't know that not using ripstop nylon with DWR would be a poor
        decision on your part or not with your synthetic insulation and your
        application. That is what I used for my projects based on cost,
        weight, water resistance, breatheability, and being down proof. I
        believe they typically calander(?sp) the ripstop nylon before they
        apply the DWR and that effects its feel as well as its breathability
        and how down proof it is.

        Having the right combination of breathability and water resistance for
        the fabric seems like a good thing to me. I see that as a balancing
        act where increasing breathability decreases water resistance and
        increasing water resistance decreases breathability. Ideally you
        would prefer very high breathability, very high water resistance, and
        very resistant to wind. But that combination doesn't occur in any
        single fabric so you have to make tradeoffs and realize that with
        existing fabrics that too much breathability and too much water
        resistance can be problematic... just as too little breathability and
        too little water resistance can also be problematic.

        What is this cocoon you mentioned and what were your experiences with
        the fabrics used with it?

        Dave
      • rghickma
        Dave, Good inputs, definitely gives me something to think about. I guess I should get some hang time in under some colder conditions to help better determine
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 12, 2007
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          Dave,

          Good inputs, definitely gives me something to think about. I guess
          I should get some hang time in under some colder conditions to help
          better determine my needs.

          I made a cocoon based on Deb Weisenstein's design at:
          http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2762794360074761024coOUFG

          I used 1.1 ripstop for the inside and 1.9 ripstop for the exterior
          and top, the material was great to work with, no issues sewing or
          sewing the insulation material into the seams. I was able to shape
          the insulation forming it to keep the desired shape without undue
          tension causing any collapse of the insulation when in place over
          the hammock.

          While I have no reviews of how my cocoon actually performs while out
          camping because I have not had a chance to try it in various weather
          conditions. I am approaching the fabric choices for the quilt(s)
          with a little more caution since I could end up with a large expense
          in materials and they will be inside the hammock making the feel of
          the fabric seem a bit more important.

          Material sources for the cocoon:
          - Ripstop fabrics were ordered from Ed Speer
          - Insulation material was ordered from thru-hiker.com

          /Rodney
        • Jon Davis
          When it comes to materials other than down loft does not equal insulative value. Think of foams, the more dense the foam tpically the higher the R value. With
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 15, 2007
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            When it comes to materials other than down loft does not equal
            insulative value. Think of foams, the more dense the foam tpically
            the higher the R value. With foams and often the hollow synthetic
            fibers the more dense it is the more small air pockets exist inside it
            that do not allow convection or conduction increasing the insulation
            value without lofting like down.


            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
            >
            > Rodney,
            >
            > The 1.1 oz rip stop nylon with DWR is the standby for the down quilts
            > I have made. I think that is what most of the DIY crowd uses unless
            > they have some specific application where they want something more
            > water resistance or want to see just how light they can make something
            > with the lightest possible materials they can get their hands on.
            >
            > I haven't used synthetic insulation before. I am curious as to why
            > you are using different types of insulation for the warm and cold
            > weather quilts when you are using one layer on one and two layers on
            > the other. I have looked at the Climashield and was a little puzzled
            > with the different versions they had of it. They had one that had the
            > best insulative value per ounce but it wasn't the highest lofting
            > version. What do you gain by not using the best insulative value per
            > ounce version?
            >
            > Dave Womble
            > aka Youngblood 2000
            > Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
            > Winter Tarp
            >
          • Dave Womble
            Jon, I understand what you are saying. What I didn t have a good understanding of was in reference to the various versions of insulation that Climashield
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 16, 2007
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              Jon,

              I understand what you are saying. What I didn't have a good
              understanding of was in reference to the various versions of
              insulation that Climashield sells
              http://www.climashield.com/products.php . They have their XP, HL, CL,
              and Combat versions. Their specs indicate that the HL is the highest
              lofting version and the XP has the most insulation per ounce... my
              question was why would you use anything other than the XP since it has
              the most insulation per ounce. Surely there are other tradeoffs
              because if there wasn't... why would you need anything other than the
              XP version? I was curious as to what those tradeoffs were. On their
              product pages, they list the same 4 applications for all four
              versions-- sleeping bags, outerwear, footwear, and gloves.

              Dave Womble
              aka Youngblood 2000
              Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
              Winter Tarp

              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Davis" <kohburn@...> wrote:
              >
              > When it comes to materials other than down loft does not equal
              > insulative value. Think of foams, the more dense the foam tpically
              > the higher the R value. With foams and often the hollow synthetic
              > fibers the more dense it is the more small air pockets exist inside it
              > that do not allow convection or conduction increasing the insulation
              > value without lofting like down.
              >
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Rodney,
              > >
              > > The 1.1 oz rip stop nylon with DWR is the standby for the down quilts
              > > I have made. I think that is what most of the DIY crowd uses unless
              > > they have some specific application where they want something more
              > > water resistance or want to see just how light they can make something
              > > with the lightest possible materials they can get their hands on.
              > >
              > > I haven't used synthetic insulation before. I am curious as to why
              > > you are using different types of insulation for the warm and cold
              > > weather quilts when you are using one layer on one and two layers on
              > > the other. I have looked at the Climashield and was a little puzzled
              > > with the different versions they had of it. They had one that had the
              > > best insulative value per ounce but it wasn't the highest lofting
              > > version. What do you gain by not using the best insulative value per
              > > ounce version?
              > >
              > > Dave Womble
              > > aka Youngblood 2000
              > > Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
              > > Winter Tarp
              > >
              >
            • Jon Davis
              Ah, I understand your question better now. From what i can tell from the product information there is basicly a curve of increased weight, increased comfort,
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 16, 2007
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                Ah, I understand your question better now.
                From what i can tell from the product information there is basicly a
                curve of increased weight, increased comfort, for the same
                insulation value. the most insulative being the xp then hl then cl,
                the combad seems to fit in somewhere between xp and hl because it is
                the lightest insulation but has a mid level warmth to weight ratio.

                light, soft, warm. pick 2

                :)


                > Jon,
                >
                > I understand what you are saying. What I didn't have a good
                > understanding of was in reference to the various versions of
                > insulation that Climashield sells
                > http://www.climashield.com/products.php . They have their XP, HL,
                CL,
                > and Combat versions. Their specs indicate that the HL is the
                highest
                > lofting version and the XP has the most insulation per ounce... my
                > question was why would you use anything other than the XP since it
                has
                > the most insulation per ounce. Surely there are other tradeoffs
                > because if there wasn't... why would you need anything other than
                the
                > XP version? I was curious as to what those tradeoffs were. On
                their
                > product pages, they list the same 4 applications for all four
                > versions-- sleeping bags, outerwear, footwear, and gloves.
                >
                > Dave Womble
                > aka Youngblood 2000
                > Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt,
                and
                > Winter Tarp
              • C C Wayah
                I d be curious to know how each one compresses in the backpack for storage while hiking. Might be one is far too bulky???? Rogene ... From: Dave Womble
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 16, 2007
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                  I'd be curious to know how each one compresses in the backpack for storage
                  while hiking.
                  Might be one is far too bulky????
                  Rogene

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                  To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:32 AM
                  Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Best material for making quilts for use
                  inside the hammock


                  > Jon,
                  >
                  > I understand what you are saying. What I didn't have a good
                  > understanding of was in reference to the various versions of
                  > insulation that Climashield sells
                  > http://www.climashield.com/products.php . They have their XP, HL, CL,
                  > and Combat versions. Their specs indicate that the HL is the highest
                  > lofting version and the XP has the most insulation per ounce... my
                  > question was why would you use anything other than the XP since it has
                  > the most insulation per ounce. Surely there are other tradeoffs
                  > because if there wasn't... why would you need anything other than the
                  > XP version? I was curious as to what those tradeoffs were. On their
                  > product pages, they list the same 4 applications for all four
                  > versions-- sleeping bags, outerwear, footwear, and gloves.
                  >
                  > Dave Womble
                  > aka Youngblood 2000
                  > Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                  > Winter Tarp
                  >
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Davis" <kohburn@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> When it comes to materials other than down loft does not equal
                  >> insulative value. Think of foams, the more dense the foam tpically
                  >> the higher the R value. With foams and often the hollow synthetic
                  >> fibers the more dense it is the more small air pockets exist inside it
                  >> that do not allow convection or conduction increasing the insulation
                  >> value without lofting like down.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@> wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> > Rodney,
                  >> >
                  >> > The 1.1 oz rip stop nylon with DWR is the standby for the down quilts
                  >> > I have made. I think that is what most of the DIY crowd uses unless
                  >> > they have some specific application where they want something more
                  >> > water resistance or want to see just how light they can make something
                  >> > with the lightest possible materials they can get their hands on.
                  >> >
                  >> > I haven't used synthetic insulation before. I am curious as to why
                  >> > you are using different types of insulation for the warm and cold
                  >> > weather quilts when you are using one layer on one and two layers on
                  >> > the other. I have looked at the Climashield and was a little puzzled
                  >> > with the different versions they had of it. They had one that had the
                  >> > best insulative value per ounce but it wasn't the highest lofting
                  >> > version. What do you gain by not using the best insulative value per
                  >> > ounce version?
                  >> >
                  >> > Dave Womble
                  >> > aka Youngblood 2000
                  >> > Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender, SnugFit Underquilt, and
                  >> > Winter Tarp
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
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