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Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?

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  • terry_and_pearl
    ... Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a non-issue. I was
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 23, 2007
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      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
      >
      > GrizzlyAdams,
      >
      > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
      > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
      > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
      > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
      > familiar with.
      >
      > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
      > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
      > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
      > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
      > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
      > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
      > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
      > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
      > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
      > the hammock bed help with that?

      Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge
      Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a
      non-issue. I was concerned when I started. And a little confused. Do I
      get over the webbing or duck under the spreader bar or ...???

      After making the Hammock, getting in and out is as natural as any top
      loader I have used. Since I enter/exit at the mid-point, the spreader
      bars are far away and don't really enter into the procedure.

      The narrow mid-section, doesn't really matter. I find it enjoyable in
      fact.

      I can sit cross-wise, i.e., webbing to webbing, in the hammock with my
      back against one webbing and my legs hanging out over the opposite
      webbing. I can sit up, almost upright, or I can lean way back. I find
      it rather comfortable. I can also get entirely in the hammock, and sit
      up with my legs laid out in front of me. Scott and David developed
      methods for using the Hammock as a lounger, kind of like a Laz-y-Boy.
      Both quite inventive.

      >
      > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
      > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
      > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
      > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
      > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
      > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
      > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
      > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
      > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
      > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
      > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
      > than the customary backpacking hammocks.

      Yes tarp coverage and interference between the pole ends and the tarp
      can be an issue. But I find the issue can be managed by how you hang
      the tarp and how high you hang the hammock. As for the spreader ends
      interfering with movement under the tarp. Again I have found it to be
      an issue that goes away with learning to use the hammock.

      When you moved from the ground to a hammock you had to learn new
      habits and ways of doing things. The same is true for the Bridge
      Hammock, just not as big a learning curve. For me, I set up the
      hammock and tarp. I then have my trekking poles setup as spreader
      bars. I then remove the poles with one end still attached to the
      hammock. The hammock then collapses down - no spread. Moving around
      under the tarp is then easier than with a Hennessy and the side tie
      outs. Maybe even easier than a Speer since the Bridge collapses down
      very narrow. Narrower than any Speer I have seen. Inserting the
      trekking poles as spreader bars just before entering for the night is
      accomplished in a matter of seconds. Night time calls just reverse the
      procedure. Inserting the trekking poles and taking them out is
      accomplished in seconds and with a little practice, it becomes second
      nature. At least it has worked that way for me.

      As far as the ends of the trekking poles tearing the tarp. This again
      was something I was concerned about also. It has turned out to be
      another non-issue for me. The carbide tips of my poles are covered
      with plastic which enables them to be used as spreader bars and the
      other end has a 1/2" diameter AL cylinder with rounded edges, but not
      pointed. Could the tarp material rub and eventually wear through? Yes,
      but the situation can be managed by learning slightly different
      techniques than those used with a conventional hammock.


      >
      > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
      > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
      > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
      > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
      > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
      > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
      > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
      > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
      > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
      > trees we see.

      Yes - using the Bridge Hammock is different from a conventional
      hammock. Not as different as moving from a tent to a hammock, but
      different. For anybody that made the transition from the tent to a
      hammock, learning to use a Bridge should be a lot easier. A lot more
      common ground.

      For those who have never used a tent and are going straight to a
      hammock, then the learning curve for a Bridge is no worse than for any
      other hammock. They will probably have it easier than those who have
      used a conventional hammock since they won't have deeply rooted
      concepts of how a hammock is supposed to be. No habits to overcome.


      >
      > Dave Womble
      > aka Youngblood 2000
      > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
      >
    • sebastiantoney
      I made a Bridge Hammock. It s 96 inches long and 60 inches wide. First It was 36 inch spreaders on the head end and 24 inches on the foot end. Shoulder squeeze
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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        I made a Bridge Hammock. It's 96 inches long and 60 inches wide. First
        It was 36 inch spreaders on the head end and 24 inches on the foot
        end. Shoulder squeeze killed me. And Side sleeping didn't allow for
        the fetal position. Also, lines tend to get tangled.

        I'm one of those who has had a hard time getting comfortable in any
        hammock. But I ill say this, I think the Bridge Hammock is the only
        one I've seen with the potential to be comfortable. On Hammock Forums
        there is a version of the Bridge Hammock that does not use spreader
        bars. It uses snow stakes and line tied out on all four corners
        instead. That'll will be my next try. I just need to buy some big
        stakes and more Spyderline.

        I hear you about banana hammock being torture. I just can't get
        comfortable in them. I can't sleep on my back. And the banana curve
        plus the torque when laying on the diagonal is too much for me. For a
        long time I thought of giving up hammock camping. But the Bridge
        Hammock offers hope where banana hammocks fall short.



        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
        <terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@> wrote:
        > >
        > > GrizzlyAdams,
        > >
        > > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
        > > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
        > > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
        > > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
        > > familiar with.
        > >
        > > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
        > > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
        > > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
        > > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
        > > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
        > > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
        > > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
        > > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
        > > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
        > > the hammock bed help with that?
        >
        > Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge
        > Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a
        > non-issue. I was concerned when I started. And a little confused. Do I
        > get over the webbing or duck under the spreader bar or ...???
        >
        > After making the Hammock, getting in and out is as natural as any top
        > loader I have used. Since I enter/exit at the mid-point, the spreader
        > bars are far away and don't really enter into the procedure.
        >
        > The narrow mid-section, doesn't really matter. I find it enjoyable in
        > fact.
        >
        > I can sit cross-wise, i.e., webbing to webbing, in the hammock with my
        > back against one webbing and my legs hanging out over the opposite
        > webbing. I can sit up, almost upright, or I can lean way back. I find
        > it rather comfortable. I can also get entirely in the hammock, and sit
        > up with my legs laid out in front of me. Scott and David developed
        > methods for using the Hammock as a lounger, kind of like a Laz-y-Boy.
        > Both quite inventive.
        >
        > >
        > > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
        > > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
        > > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
        > > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
        > > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
        > > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
        > > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
        > > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
        > > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
        > > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
        > > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
        > > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
        >
        > Yes tarp coverage and interference between the pole ends and the tarp
        > can be an issue. But I find the issue can be managed by how you hang
        > the tarp and how high you hang the hammock. As for the spreader ends
        > interfering with movement under the tarp. Again I have found it to be
        > an issue that goes away with learning to use the hammock.
        >
        > When you moved from the ground to a hammock you had to learn new
        > habits and ways of doing things. The same is true for the Bridge
        > Hammock, just not as big a learning curve. For me, I set up the
        > hammock and tarp. I then have my trekking poles setup as spreader
        > bars. I then remove the poles with one end still attached to the
        > hammock. The hammock then collapses down - no spread. Moving around
        > under the tarp is then easier than with a Hennessy and the side tie
        > outs. Maybe even easier than a Speer since the Bridge collapses down
        > very narrow. Narrower than any Speer I have seen. Inserting the
        > trekking poles as spreader bars just before entering for the night is
        > accomplished in a matter of seconds. Night time calls just reverse the
        > procedure. Inserting the trekking poles and taking them out is
        > accomplished in seconds and with a little practice, it becomes second
        > nature. At least it has worked that way for me.
        >
        > As far as the ends of the trekking poles tearing the tarp. This again
        > was something I was concerned about also. It has turned out to be
        > another non-issue for me. The carbide tips of my poles are covered
        > with plastic which enables them to be used as spreader bars and the
        > other end has a 1/2" diameter AL cylinder with rounded edges, but not
        > pointed. Could the tarp material rub and eventually wear through? Yes,
        > but the situation can be managed by learning slightly different
        > techniques than those used with a conventional hammock.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
        > > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
        > > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
        > > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
        > > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
        > > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
        > > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
        > > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
        > > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
        > > trees we see.
        >
        > Yes - using the Bridge Hammock is different from a conventional
        > hammock. Not as different as moving from a tent to a hammock, but
        > different. For anybody that made the transition from the tent to a
        > hammock, learning to use a Bridge should be a lot easier. A lot more
        > common ground.
        >
        > For those who have never used a tent and are going straight to a
        > hammock, then the learning curve for a Bridge is no worse than for any
        > other hammock. They will probably have it easier than those who have
        > used a conventional hammock since they won't have deeply rooted
        > concepts of how a hammock is supposed to be. No habits to overcome.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Dave Womble
        > > aka Youngblood 2000
        > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
        > >
        >
      • Dave Womble
        ... ... ... terry_and_pearl, I don t believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of a shelter. One point I was trying to make was that
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
          <terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:
          >
          <snip>...

          > As far as your other points and trying to compare the Bridge Hammock
          > to a cot or the floor of a shelter. The comparison doesn't make any
          > sense to me. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish
          > with such comparisons. First the Bridge Hammock is made of whatever
          > fabric you decide, you can use the heavy cotton used in the cot if you
          > like, but I wouldn't advise it. The same fabric you use for your other
          > DIY hammocks would be much better. As for comparing to the floor of a
          > shelter, I don't advise making the Bridge Hammock out of wood either.
          > As I said, the point of the comparisons escapes me.

          ... <snip>
          >

          terry_and_pearl,

          I don't believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of
          a shelter.

          One point I was trying to make was that the term flat was being
          misused and could cause confusion. I have brought the same issue up
          in the past when folks stated they were able to lay flat in more
          traditional backpacking hammocks by laying on a diagonal and told them
          they weren't really laying flat but were laying flatter. As another
          example, this is a flat suspended platform http://tinyurl.com/3dmps3
          and this is not http://tinyurl.com/32v2rt . Both those types of
          platforms provide for a straight spine but have some different
          characteristics that can affect comfort... there are some tradeoffs
          involved and different individuals may find different comfort levels
          between the two.

          Another point I was trying to make was that being flat in itself is
          not the holy grail of comfort and that was where the reference to flat
          shelter floors was brought up. Shelter floors are flat but most
          people don't find them particularly comfortable unless they use a lot
          of cushioning with them. Many folks have gone to hammocks that use
          stretchy nylon fabric that don't allow them to get totally flat to get
          off those hard flat shelter floors so they could be more comfortable.

          My intent was to clarify the descriptions that were being used and to
          point out that being comfortable isn't all about being flat, that
          relieving uncomfortable pressure points plays a huge part it how
          comfortable a person is.

          Dave Womble
          aka Youngblood 2000
          designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
        • tim garner
          i have to say, in my hammock i m so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . i use a
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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            i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line<g>.
            i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.

            but when i've laid in other hammock types... a loosely hung, 5' wide by 11' long hammock (dave's), & a hh clone (headchange's) i was also so close to flat that if there was a sag going in the direction of a banana, it was very minimal & i was extreamly comfrtable w/o a DAM. mater a fact in dave's wide hammock, my feet seemed to rest a few inches lower than my back as they were off to one side, and the back/torso was perfectly supported.
            the only reason i haven't made a wider hammock like that is more hammock material & more insulation. but it was so comfortable, i might could do w/o the DAM.

            i haven't wanted to be negative toward the bridge type hammocks, because they will probably suit some folks better, but the two i've laid in seemed far to rigid & non-conforming after using the more common types.
            i disliked the shoulder squeeze too but of course i realize that can probably be helped by using longer spreader bars.

            another thing i really like about my hammock style is lower sides for a great view!!! ...tim



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            ---------------------------------
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • terry_and_pearl
            ... Dave - I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Scanned too fast and left my mind on idle while doing so. Yes you right. Flat, as in mattress flat,
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
              > <terry_and_pearl@> wrote:
              > >
              > <snip>...
              >
              > > As far as your other points and trying to compare the Bridge Hammock
              > > to a cot or the floor of a shelter. The comparison doesn't make any
              > > sense to me. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish
              > > with such comparisons. First the Bridge Hammock is made of whatever
              > > fabric you decide, you can use the heavy cotton used in the cot if you
              > > like, but I wouldn't advise it. The same fabric you use for your other
              > > DIY hammocks would be much better. As for comparing to the floor of a
              > > shelter, I don't advise making the Bridge Hammock out of wood either.
              > > As I said, the point of the comparisons escapes me.
              >
              > ... <snip>
              > >
              >
              > terry_and_pearl,
              >
              > I don't believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of
              > a shelter.
              >
              > One point I was trying to make was that the term flat was being
              > misused and could cause confusion. I have brought the same issue up
              > in the past when folks stated they were able to lay flat in more
              > traditional backpacking hammocks by laying on a diagonal and told them
              > they weren't really laying flat but were laying flatter. As another
              > example, this is a flat suspended platform http://tinyurl.com/3dmps3
              > and this is not http://tinyurl.com/32v2rt . Both those types of
              > platforms provide for a straight spine but have some different
              > characteristics that can affect comfort... there are some tradeoffs
              > involved and different individuals may find different comfort levels
              > between the two.
              >
              > Another point I was trying to make was that being flat in itself is
              > not the holy grail of comfort and that was where the reference to flat
              > shelter floors was brought up. Shelter floors are flat but most
              > people don't find them particularly comfortable unless they use a lot
              > of cushioning with them. Many folks have gone to hammocks that use
              > stretchy nylon fabric that don't allow them to get totally flat to get
              > off those hard flat shelter floors so they could be more comfortable.
              >
              > My intent was to clarify the descriptions that were being used and to
              > point out that being comfortable isn't all about being flat, that
              > relieving uncomfortable pressure points plays a huge part it how
              > comfortable a person is.
              >
              > Dave Womble
              > aka Youngblood 2000
              > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
              >

              Dave - I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Scanned too fast
              and left my mind on idle while doing so.

              Yes you right. Flat, as in mattress flat, isn't really what I wanted.
              What I wanted most of all was to get rid of the backwards pressure on
              my knees. I guess I have just gotten into the habit of using the term
              "flat" as shorthand to mean just that.

              My Safari clone does a beautiful job of doing that. Until I took a
              wild chance and made a Bridge Hammock, that Safari clone was my
              favorite hammock. The whipping is such that I have a little platform
              formed by the folds that acted as a pillow, so none needed for my
              head. Also, the folds are such that my knees are raised just a
              fraction of an inch. Not much, but enough that the backward pressure
              is eliminated. I didn't plan the whipping like that, it just happened
              to work out that way and I love it.

              And talk about room!! That hammock is HUGE. I really got to the point
              that I like a HUGE hammock for the roominess and the fact that the
              ridge line was up high and out of my face and I didn't attempt to
              decapitate myself on it getting into and out of the hammock.

              I prefer hammocks with ridge lines and will not use one without
              anymore. That is my personal preference.

              But my Safari clone is HEAVY, HEAVY and oh by the way did I mention
              that it is HEAVY. Almost 1 lb just for the fabric, then add in the bug
              netting, the Velcro for the bottom entry/exit slit, the Velcro on the
              edges and the bug netting to make the bug netting removable, the bias
              tape used for trim instead of hems and the weight is up to almost 2
              lbs. Then add in the snake skins and a tarp and we are talking
              significant weight here.

              The Safari clone is a very, very comfortable hammock, but the price
              paid is weight.

              Tim mentioned the view. That was another problem with the Safari
              clone. Laying on the diagonal, there is a veritable wall of material
              to your right. The view to the right is blocked almost totally from
              your feet around to the head end, continuing around almost to the left
              shoulder. About the only place you can really see out of that hammock
              is from the left shoulder down to the the level of the hips. Then the
              fabric starts rising up and blocking everything again. If anything
              wanted to sneak and surprise you, just come from your right side
              towards your head. You wouldn't see a thing.

              So what happened when I laid in my Bridge Hammock after I got the
              ridge line and spreaders adjusted properly??

              Well, first of all, I noticed that I do need a head pillow just like I
              do on my memory foam mattress. Then I noticed that I also will
              probably use a small pillow under my knees occasionally just like I do
              on my memory foam mattress. In the Bridge Hammock, I use one of those
              air pillows from BPL for my knees. Deflated it weighs approximately 1
              oz, maybe less. If I had known about the less expensive sources for
              that pillow, I would have purchased there instead of BPL, but what the
              heck.

              I learned fast that the air pillow doesn't work for my head, the air
              doesn't stay in one place and my head just flops from side to side.
              Useless for my head. So I invented a built-in pillow for my Bridge
              Hammock. It isn't really a pillow, but a platform made out of 1.1 oz
              ripstop, grosgrain and guy line cord. Works great when sleeping on my
              back and even better than a pillow when on my side. And being
              built-in, it cannot get lost an weighs approximately 1 oz or less.
              Also, since it is made out of 1.1 oz ripstop, it conforms to my head
              and cushions.

              One thing I didn't like about the Bridge Hammock was sleeping on my
              side - no room for my arms. They ended up folded across my chest. If
              you have seen the picture of the guy in the OZ site, that is what he
              is doing. I like to kind of have the underside arm extended under my
              head or out in front of me. The Safari clone was great for that. Just
              cannot do that in the Bridge Hammock without my built-in
              pillow/platform. The platform supports my head at just the right
              height (which is easily adjustable) and my arm can then be extended up
              under the pillow and my head. Until I invented the built-in pillow,
              sleeping on my side was a struggle with the un-natural position for
              me. With the built-in pillow, I fall to sleep on my side, either side,
              in seconds or minutes.

              Now back to something I really, really, really like about the Bridge
              Hammock ---- The View. I have more unobstructed view from my Bridge
              Hammock than any hammock I have ever laid in. That dip in the middle
              affords the best view out the sides I have ever seen in a hammock. The
              rising sides on the foot of the hammock are seen pretty much on edge
              and present almost no obstruction to the view. The rising sides on
              head of the hammock are steeper than on the foot and consequently
              present less obstruction than the foot sides would. True, you are
              looking at the head sides full on, but there just seems to be less
              there. Directly over the feet and directly overhead, the hammock can
              be fully open or closed, my choice. I can fully open for an
              unobstructed view or close off fully to block wind or I can open/close
              partially for a view and ventilation compromise.

              The view is obstructed a whole lot when I install my poncho liner as
              an under quilt. The liner is stretched out under the hammock and acts
              like a huge bathtub, only open ended. When it is cold and windy out, I
              close off the hammock above my head and below my feet to block wind
              and then the high sides of the poncho liner accomplish the same for
              the sides even with that dip in the middle of the hammock. Getting in
              with the poncho liner installed as an under quilt is not an issue. The
              foot end is secured with shock cord. So I just pull the side of the
              liner down to the webbing on the hammock and enter/exit normally. The
              poncho liner snaps back into place. No problem. I have a piece of
              shock cord attached to the middle of one side of the poncho liner.
              That cord gets run over the ridge line and clipped with a micro
              carabiner to the other side. It is secured only when I am in the
              hammock - just grab the cord, throw over the ridge line, catch and
              clip - done is 2 or 3 seconds. With the poncho liner secured at four
              corners and the middle it is snug. To get even more insulation, as I
              wrote previously, I just lay my Gossamer Gear Thinlight pads on top of
              the liner. Since they are under the hammock and on top of the liner,
              they stay in place as if stitched there no matter how much I move
              about and toss and turn. Nothing special needed. With the cut down
              section turned perpendicular, I have insulation up past my shoulders
              when on my back

              Using one of the small IR thermometers, I have observed a little
              better than 15* F difference between ambient air inside the
              hammock/liner "bathtub" and the hammock fabric under my back with both
              the poncho liner and the GG pads. The GG pads put 3/4" thick
              insulation under my torso. Also, I have observed about a 5* F to 10* F
              difference in ambient temperature inside the poncho liner "bathtub"
              and the outside air. The latter was with only a small wind outside. I
              am thinking of making a "bug netting" out of 1.1 oz ripstop. It isn't
              for bugs, but to act as an overcover to seal the hammock with the
              poncho liner or under quilt. Would only use when it is very windy and
              very cold. I would then slightly open either the cover above my head
              or below my feet or both for ventilation.

              Roominess??? My Safari clone is the epitome of roominess for all
              hammocks except big Mayans. But then The Safari is essentially,
              almost, a Mayan hammock with bug netting and bottom entry/exit.

              How does the Bridge Hammock compare? Quite well in my opinion. It
              doesn't have the "acres" of fabric that a Mayan or the Safari has. But
              it also doesn't constrict me much either. With a spreader bar above my
              head of 105 cm (41.3 inches - my tape measure is graduated in metric
              so I end up mixing metric and English units), shoulder squeeze is not
              an issue for me. But then I don't have a line backer's shoulders
              either. I'm not diminutive either - my chest measures between 44" and
              45" and if I include my arms, it measures between 50" and 51". So that
              gives you something to compare with for shoulder squeeze.

              I have found that for me, I really don't need the "acres" of fabric
              and the subsequent weight to have roominess.

              I sleep exclusively on my side and back with a preference for my side.
              I'm adaptable and can sleep on my back exclusively and on my stomach
              if forced, but I find sleeping on my stomach uncomfortable - I usually
              get a sore neck.

              To get an idea of how the Bridge Hammock works, do a thought
              experiment. As an engineer you are probably used to doing this.

              First get a picture of a big Mayan Hammock with a person laying
              totally on the diagonal, laying perpendicular to the line from tree to
              tree. Picture the roominess and comfort and lack of shoulder squeeze.

              Got It??

              Okay, now leaving the person in the hammock and the hammock in the
              air, unhitch from the trees.

              Now, take the ends where the whipping is, un-whip the ends and spread
              the fabric out flat. Remember the hammock is still in the air with the
              person in it.

              Now you have all of that fabric with the person in the "bathtub".

              Cut away all of the extraneous fabric. Cut it down to about 2 feet
              above the person laying in the hammock.

              You will notice that in the middle, where you cut the fabric away, the
              fabric is loose and tight only at the corners.

              To get rid of the looseness, we'll take a lesson from bridge builders
              and cut again, only this time instead of cutting on a straight line,
              we'll cut an arc, low in the middle. Taking another lesson from the
              bridge builders, we'll make the arc steeper where he upper body is. We
              do this since the steeper arc supports the extra weight of the upper
              body better.

              Now sew some supporting rope or webbing along both cuts, rotate the
              whole thing 90 degrees and extend the rope or webbing out to the trees
              and you essentially have the Bridge Hammock. Some of the details about
              sewing and using a mixture of webbing and rope and joining the ropes
              to get 1 rope running to the tree have to be added to finish, but you
              get the idea.

              You still have the roominess and comfort of that Mayan Hammock, but
              have eliminated a lot of weight.
            • C C Wayah
              Ok Dave, Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find a way to tandem the tarps together? My husband and I had a hard time
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Ok Dave,
                Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find
                a way to tandem the tarps together?
                My husband and I had a hard time finding four suitable trees north of Woody
                gap that wasn't full of poison ivy this summer. We found two trees across a
                cleared side trail easily but not four in a reasonable distance from each
                other so that only one of us was not in the PI.
                .
                Rogene


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:33 AM
                Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?


                > GrizzlyAdams,
                >
                > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
                > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
                > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
                > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
                > familiar with.
                >
                > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
                > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
                > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
                > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
                > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
                > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
                > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
                > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
                > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
                > the hammock bed help with that?
                >
                > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
                > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
                > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
                > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
                > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
                > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
                > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
                > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
                > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
                > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
                > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
                > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
                >
                > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
                > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
                > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
                > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
                > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
                > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
                > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
                > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
                > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
                > trees we see.
                >
                > Dave Womble
                > aka Youngblood 2000
                > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • terry_and_pearl
                ... curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . ... not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform. ... wide
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight
                  curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/
                  a line<g>.
                  > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/
                  not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                  >
                  > but when i've laid in other hammock types... a loosely hung, 5'
                  wide by 11' long hammock (dave's), & a hh clone (headchange's) i was
                  also so close to flat that if there was a sag going in the direction
                  of a banana, it was very minimal & i was extreamly comfrtable w/o a
                  DAM. mater a fact in dave's wide hammock, my feet seemed to rest a
                  few inches lower than my back as they were off to one side, and the
                  back/torso was perfectly supported.
                  > the only reason i haven't made a wider hammock like that is
                  more hammock material & more insulation. but it was so comfortable, i
                  might could do w/o the DAM.
                  >
                  > i haven't wanted to be negative toward the bridge type hammocks,
                  because they will probably suit some folks better, but the two i've
                  laid in seemed far to rigid & non-conforming after using the more
                  common types.
                  > i disliked the shoulder squeeze too but of course i realize
                  that can probably be helped by using longer spreader bars.
                  >
                  > another thing i really like about my hammock style is lower
                  sides for a great view!!! ...tim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                  > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at
                  Yahoo! Games.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  Tim - you're probably not a good candidate for a Bridge Hammock. You
                  seem to have found what you like and is comfortable for you. Maybe a
                  good idea to stick with it.

                  I'm just having a lot of fun in designing something completely new and
                  different and also enjoying the fact that for me it works so very well.

                  I'm really not trying to talk anybody into the Bridge Hammock instead
                  of something else. I just get enthusiastic and like to share that with
                  others. If I didn't enjoy the Bridge Hammock I just wouldn't do it.
                  Sorry if that comes across as being pushy or anything - it's not meant
                  to be that way.
                • tim garner
                  if you go to the photo gallery, go to the last page & back up one, you will see several photos starting w/ slowhike . check the one that says three
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    if you go to the photo gallery, go to the last page & back up one, you will see several photos starting w/ "slowhike". check the one that says "three hammocks".
                    it's a lot easier to find there trees for two hammocks than four.
                    we have set 2 & 3 hammocks beside each other many times, using the same tree for the foot end hammock supports & two separate trees for the head end supports.


                    C C Wayah <ccwayah@...> wrote:
                    Ok Dave,
                    Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find
                    a way to tandem the tarps together?
                    My husband and I had a hard time finding four suitable trees north of Woody
                    gap that wasn't full of poison ivy this summer. We found two trees across a
                    cleared side trail easily but not four in a reasonable distance from each
                    other so that only one of us was not in the PI.
                    .
                    Rogene


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Dave Womble"
                    To:
                    Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:33 AM
                    Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?


                    > GrizzlyAdams,
                    >
                    > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
                    > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
                    > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
                    > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
                    > familiar with.
                    >
                    > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
                    > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
                    > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
                    > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
                    > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
                    > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
                    > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
                    > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
                    > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
                    > the hammock bed help with that?
                    >
                    > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
                    > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
                    > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
                    > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
                    > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
                    > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
                    > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
                    > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
                    > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
                    > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
                    > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
                    > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
                    >
                    > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
                    > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
                    > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
                    > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
                    > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
                    > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
                    > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
                    > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
                    > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
                    > trees we see.
                    >
                    > Dave Womble
                    > aka Youngblood 2000
                    > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    Yahoo! Groups Links






                    don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                    ---------------------------------
                    Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • milwaukee_son
                    ... detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . ... use a DAM, softly inflated to conform. ... Tim, I ve seen pictures of you in your hammock. How
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to
                      detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line<g>.
                      > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also
                      use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                      >

                      Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your DAM? How effective is it at
                      pushing out the sides of your hammock?

                      I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge hammock could be a 26" wide
                      Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter sleeping bag. If the spreader
                      bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out whatever shoulder squeeze
                      there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating tent" like feel, with closure
                      small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement, and large enough to be
                      comfortable.
                    • tim garner
                      i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23 wide inflated. it does keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn t mind a few more inches width
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23" wide inflated. it does keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn't mind a few more inches width in cold weather so there would be more room for the quilt's full loft.
                        i may be trying a warmlight DAM soon. it's a little wider.



                        milwaukee_son <milwaukee_son@...> wrote:
                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to
                        detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line.
                        > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also
                        use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                        >

                        Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your DAM? How effective is it at
                        pushing out the sides of your hammock?

                        I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge hammock could be a 26" wide
                        Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter sleeping bag. If the spreader
                        bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out whatever shoulder squeeze
                        there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating tent" like feel, with closure
                        small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement, and large enough to be
                        comfortable.







                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                        ---------------------------------
                        Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Dave Womble
                        Tim, If you have a 20 wide Exped-7, it will fit into the sleeve of a SPE and you can use the wings to effectively extend the width. I use a SPE when I use my
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Tim,

                          If you have a 20" wide Exped-7, it will fit into the sleeve of a SPE
                          and you can use the wings to effectively extend the width. I use a
                          SPE when I use my 20" wide Exped-7 but don't use anything with my
                          large Stephenson DAM that is 28" at its widest... except for the
                          10"x20" ccf pad that I use under it to keep it from sliding so easily
                          against the hammock bed.

                          I found these large pads to be warm and comfy. They affect the lay of
                          the hammock, basically reducing shoulder squeeze and knee
                          hyper-extension while providing the ultimate in cushioning. Your
                          knees drop some if the mat isn't fully inflated because your heels
                          sink a little, with the 4+ inch thick Stephenson DAM you can hang your
                          heels off the end and get even more heel drop. With either one of
                          those DAMs, I just laugh at hard shelter floors and they probably make
                          hard shelter floors as comfortable, if not more for some folks, than a
                          nice hammock... you are flat, have no shoulder squeeze and have plenty
                          of cushioning.

                          But, they are not without some negative tradeoffs as well and those
                          are significant enough to consider before you think the DAMs are
                          perfect in every way. The first negative tradeoff I noticed was what
                          a pain they are to inflate and deflate in a hammock environment...
                          especially when it is very cold, which is where they excel in keeping
                          you warm.

                          Dave Womble
                          aka Youngblood 2000
                          Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt

                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23" wide inflated. it does
                          keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn't mind a
                          few more inches width in cold weather so there would be more room for
                          the quilt's full loft.
                          > i may be trying a warmlight DAM soon. it's a little wider.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > milwaukee_son <milwaukee_son@...> wrote:
                          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight
                          curve is hard for me to
                          > detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line.
                          > > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not
                          much sag. i also
                          > use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your
                          DAM? How effective is it at
                          > pushing out the sides of your hammock?
                          >
                          > I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge
                          hammock could be a 26" wide
                          > Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter
                          sleeping bag. If the spreader
                          > bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out
                          whatever shoulder squeeze
                          > there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating
                          tent" like feel, with closure
                          > small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement,
                          and large enough to be
                          > comfortable.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with
                          Yahoo! Autos.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
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