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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?

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  • Nancye Eidson
    First time post here --- I have been studying hammock systems with mild interest since the spring when I alerted to them through the AT journals. This bridge
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 23, 2007
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      First time post here ---

      I have been studying hammock systems with mild interest since the
      spring when I alerted to
      them through the AT journals. This bridge hammock idea has taken my
      interest
      to a new level, and made me glad I did not make a purchase plunge
      earlier.

      Please, keep all the techy talk as well as the comparisons and
      performance reports
      coming. We can pick and choose what we want to read. The pictures are
      a huge
      help. The more, the merrier.

      Thank you to all the developers who share so freely, and with such
      detailed reporting.
      I especially enjoy the discussions that make it clear for which
      applications the discussed
      system alterations are best suited. My thinking was originally very
      limited. Now there
      are so many ideas.

      Joyfully, Nancye in Kentucky

      On Sep 23, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Dave Womble wrote:

      > GrizzlyAdams,
      >
      > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
      > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
      > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
      > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
      > familiar with.
      >
    • terry_and_pearl
      ... Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a non-issue. I was
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 23, 2007
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        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
        >
        > GrizzlyAdams,
        >
        > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
        > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
        > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
        > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
        > familiar with.
        >
        > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
        > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
        > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
        > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
        > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
        > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
        > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
        > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
        > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
        > the hammock bed help with that?

        Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge
        Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a
        non-issue. I was concerned when I started. And a little confused. Do I
        get over the webbing or duck under the spreader bar or ...???

        After making the Hammock, getting in and out is as natural as any top
        loader I have used. Since I enter/exit at the mid-point, the spreader
        bars are far away and don't really enter into the procedure.

        The narrow mid-section, doesn't really matter. I find it enjoyable in
        fact.

        I can sit cross-wise, i.e., webbing to webbing, in the hammock with my
        back against one webbing and my legs hanging out over the opposite
        webbing. I can sit up, almost upright, or I can lean way back. I find
        it rather comfortable. I can also get entirely in the hammock, and sit
        up with my legs laid out in front of me. Scott and David developed
        methods for using the Hammock as a lounger, kind of like a Laz-y-Boy.
        Both quite inventive.

        >
        > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
        > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
        > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
        > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
        > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
        > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
        > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
        > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
        > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
        > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
        > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
        > than the customary backpacking hammocks.

        Yes tarp coverage and interference between the pole ends and the tarp
        can be an issue. But I find the issue can be managed by how you hang
        the tarp and how high you hang the hammock. As for the spreader ends
        interfering with movement under the tarp. Again I have found it to be
        an issue that goes away with learning to use the hammock.

        When you moved from the ground to a hammock you had to learn new
        habits and ways of doing things. The same is true for the Bridge
        Hammock, just not as big a learning curve. For me, I set up the
        hammock and tarp. I then have my trekking poles setup as spreader
        bars. I then remove the poles with one end still attached to the
        hammock. The hammock then collapses down - no spread. Moving around
        under the tarp is then easier than with a Hennessy and the side tie
        outs. Maybe even easier than a Speer since the Bridge collapses down
        very narrow. Narrower than any Speer I have seen. Inserting the
        trekking poles as spreader bars just before entering for the night is
        accomplished in a matter of seconds. Night time calls just reverse the
        procedure. Inserting the trekking poles and taking them out is
        accomplished in seconds and with a little practice, it becomes second
        nature. At least it has worked that way for me.

        As far as the ends of the trekking poles tearing the tarp. This again
        was something I was concerned about also. It has turned out to be
        another non-issue for me. The carbide tips of my poles are covered
        with plastic which enables them to be used as spreader bars and the
        other end has a 1/2" diameter AL cylinder with rounded edges, but not
        pointed. Could the tarp material rub and eventually wear through? Yes,
        but the situation can be managed by learning slightly different
        techniques than those used with a conventional hammock.


        >
        > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
        > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
        > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
        > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
        > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
        > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
        > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
        > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
        > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
        > trees we see.

        Yes - using the Bridge Hammock is different from a conventional
        hammock. Not as different as moving from a tent to a hammock, but
        different. For anybody that made the transition from the tent to a
        hammock, learning to use a Bridge should be a lot easier. A lot more
        common ground.

        For those who have never used a tent and are going straight to a
        hammock, then the learning curve for a Bridge is no worse than for any
        other hammock. They will probably have it easier than those who have
        used a conventional hammock since they won't have deeply rooted
        concepts of how a hammock is supposed to be. No habits to overcome.


        >
        > Dave Womble
        > aka Youngblood 2000
        > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
        >
      • sebastiantoney
        I made a Bridge Hammock. It s 96 inches long and 60 inches wide. First It was 36 inch spreaders on the head end and 24 inches on the foot end. Shoulder squeeze
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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          I made a Bridge Hammock. It's 96 inches long and 60 inches wide. First
          It was 36 inch spreaders on the head end and 24 inches on the foot
          end. Shoulder squeeze killed me. And Side sleeping didn't allow for
          the fetal position. Also, lines tend to get tangled.

          I'm one of those who has had a hard time getting comfortable in any
          hammock. But I ill say this, I think the Bridge Hammock is the only
          one I've seen with the potential to be comfortable. On Hammock Forums
          there is a version of the Bridge Hammock that does not use spreader
          bars. It uses snow stakes and line tied out on all four corners
          instead. That'll will be my next try. I just need to buy some big
          stakes and more Spyderline.

          I hear you about banana hammock being torture. I just can't get
          comfortable in them. I can't sleep on my back. And the banana curve
          plus the torque when laying on the diagonal is too much for me. For a
          long time I thought of giving up hammock camping. But the Bridge
          Hammock offers hope where banana hammocks fall short.



          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
          <terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@> wrote:
          > >
          > > GrizzlyAdams,
          > >
          > > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
          > > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
          > > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
          > > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
          > > familiar with.
          > >
          > > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
          > > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
          > > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
          > > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
          > > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
          > > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
          > > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
          > > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
          > > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
          > > the hammock bed help with that?
          >
          > Dave, I responded to your question about entry/exit to the Bridge
          > Hammock. As I said there, for me at least, it has turned out to be a
          > non-issue. I was concerned when I started. And a little confused. Do I
          > get over the webbing or duck under the spreader bar or ...???
          >
          > After making the Hammock, getting in and out is as natural as any top
          > loader I have used. Since I enter/exit at the mid-point, the spreader
          > bars are far away and don't really enter into the procedure.
          >
          > The narrow mid-section, doesn't really matter. I find it enjoyable in
          > fact.
          >
          > I can sit cross-wise, i.e., webbing to webbing, in the hammock with my
          > back against one webbing and my legs hanging out over the opposite
          > webbing. I can sit up, almost upright, or I can lean way back. I find
          > it rather comfortable. I can also get entirely in the hammock, and sit
          > up with my legs laid out in front of me. Scott and David developed
          > methods for using the Hammock as a lounger, kind of like a Laz-y-Boy.
          > Both quite inventive.
          >
          > >
          > > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
          > > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
          > > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
          > > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
          > > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
          > > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
          > > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
          > > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
          > > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
          > > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
          > > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
          > > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
          >
          > Yes tarp coverage and interference between the pole ends and the tarp
          > can be an issue. But I find the issue can be managed by how you hang
          > the tarp and how high you hang the hammock. As for the spreader ends
          > interfering with movement under the tarp. Again I have found it to be
          > an issue that goes away with learning to use the hammock.
          >
          > When you moved from the ground to a hammock you had to learn new
          > habits and ways of doing things. The same is true for the Bridge
          > Hammock, just not as big a learning curve. For me, I set up the
          > hammock and tarp. I then have my trekking poles setup as spreader
          > bars. I then remove the poles with one end still attached to the
          > hammock. The hammock then collapses down - no spread. Moving around
          > under the tarp is then easier than with a Hennessy and the side tie
          > outs. Maybe even easier than a Speer since the Bridge collapses down
          > very narrow. Narrower than any Speer I have seen. Inserting the
          > trekking poles as spreader bars just before entering for the night is
          > accomplished in a matter of seconds. Night time calls just reverse the
          > procedure. Inserting the trekking poles and taking them out is
          > accomplished in seconds and with a little practice, it becomes second
          > nature. At least it has worked that way for me.
          >
          > As far as the ends of the trekking poles tearing the tarp. This again
          > was something I was concerned about also. It has turned out to be
          > another non-issue for me. The carbide tips of my poles are covered
          > with plastic which enables them to be used as spreader bars and the
          > other end has a 1/2" diameter AL cylinder with rounded edges, but not
          > pointed. Could the tarp material rub and eventually wear through? Yes,
          > but the situation can be managed by learning slightly different
          > techniques than those used with a conventional hammock.
          >
          >
          > >
          > > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
          > > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
          > > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
          > > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
          > > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
          > > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
          > > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
          > > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
          > > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
          > > trees we see.
          >
          > Yes - using the Bridge Hammock is different from a conventional
          > hammock. Not as different as moving from a tent to a hammock, but
          > different. For anybody that made the transition from the tent to a
          > hammock, learning to use a Bridge should be a lot easier. A lot more
          > common ground.
          >
          > For those who have never used a tent and are going straight to a
          > hammock, then the learning curve for a Bridge is no worse than for any
          > other hammock. They will probably have it easier than those who have
          > used a conventional hammock since they won't have deeply rooted
          > concepts of how a hammock is supposed to be. No habits to overcome.
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Dave Womble
          > > aka Youngblood 2000
          > > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
          > >
          >
        • Dave Womble
          ... ... ... terry_and_pearl, I don t believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of a shelter. One point I was trying to make was that
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
            <terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:
            >
            <snip>...

            > As far as your other points and trying to compare the Bridge Hammock
            > to a cot or the floor of a shelter. The comparison doesn't make any
            > sense to me. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish
            > with such comparisons. First the Bridge Hammock is made of whatever
            > fabric you decide, you can use the heavy cotton used in the cot if you
            > like, but I wouldn't advise it. The same fabric you use for your other
            > DIY hammocks would be much better. As for comparing to the floor of a
            > shelter, I don't advise making the Bridge Hammock out of wood either.
            > As I said, the point of the comparisons escapes me.

            ... <snip>
            >

            terry_and_pearl,

            I don't believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of
            a shelter.

            One point I was trying to make was that the term flat was being
            misused and could cause confusion. I have brought the same issue up
            in the past when folks stated they were able to lay flat in more
            traditional backpacking hammocks by laying on a diagonal and told them
            they weren't really laying flat but were laying flatter. As another
            example, this is a flat suspended platform http://tinyurl.com/3dmps3
            and this is not http://tinyurl.com/32v2rt . Both those types of
            platforms provide for a straight spine but have some different
            characteristics that can affect comfort... there are some tradeoffs
            involved and different individuals may find different comfort levels
            between the two.

            Another point I was trying to make was that being flat in itself is
            not the holy grail of comfort and that was where the reference to flat
            shelter floors was brought up. Shelter floors are flat but most
            people don't find them particularly comfortable unless they use a lot
            of cushioning with them. Many folks have gone to hammocks that use
            stretchy nylon fabric that don't allow them to get totally flat to get
            off those hard flat shelter floors so they could be more comfortable.

            My intent was to clarify the descriptions that were being used and to
            point out that being comfortable isn't all about being flat, that
            relieving uncomfortable pressure points plays a huge part it how
            comfortable a person is.

            Dave Womble
            aka Youngblood 2000
            designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
          • tim garner
            i have to say, in my hammock i m so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . i use a
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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              i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line<g>.
              i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.

              but when i've laid in other hammock types... a loosely hung, 5' wide by 11' long hammock (dave's), & a hh clone (headchange's) i was also so close to flat that if there was a sag going in the direction of a banana, it was very minimal & i was extreamly comfrtable w/o a DAM. mater a fact in dave's wide hammock, my feet seemed to rest a few inches lower than my back as they were off to one side, and the back/torso was perfectly supported.
              the only reason i haven't made a wider hammock like that is more hammock material & more insulation. but it was so comfortable, i might could do w/o the DAM.

              i haven't wanted to be negative toward the bridge type hammocks, because they will probably suit some folks better, but the two i've laid in seemed far to rigid & non-conforming after using the more common types.
              i disliked the shoulder squeeze too but of course i realize that can probably be helped by using longer spreader bars.

              another thing i really like about my hammock style is lower sides for a great view!!! ...tim



              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


              ---------------------------------
              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • terry_and_pearl
              ... Dave - I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Scanned too fast and left my mind on idle while doing so. Yes you right. Flat, as in mattress flat,
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
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                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"
                > <terry_and_pearl@> wrote:
                > >
                > <snip>...
                >
                > > As far as your other points and trying to compare the Bridge Hammock
                > > to a cot or the floor of a shelter. The comparison doesn't make any
                > > sense to me. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish
                > > with such comparisons. First the Bridge Hammock is made of whatever
                > > fabric you decide, you can use the heavy cotton used in the cot if you
                > > like, but I wouldn't advise it. The same fabric you use for your other
                > > DIY hammocks would be much better. As for comparing to the floor of a
                > > shelter, I don't advise making the Bridge Hammock out of wood either.
                > > As I said, the point of the comparisons escapes me.
                >
                > ... <snip>
                > >
                >
                > terry_and_pearl,
                >
                > I don't believe I compared the bridge hammock to a cot or the floor of
                > a shelter.
                >
                > One point I was trying to make was that the term flat was being
                > misused and could cause confusion. I have brought the same issue up
                > in the past when folks stated they were able to lay flat in more
                > traditional backpacking hammocks by laying on a diagonal and told them
                > they weren't really laying flat but were laying flatter. As another
                > example, this is a flat suspended platform http://tinyurl.com/3dmps3
                > and this is not http://tinyurl.com/32v2rt . Both those types of
                > platforms provide for a straight spine but have some different
                > characteristics that can affect comfort... there are some tradeoffs
                > involved and different individuals may find different comfort levels
                > between the two.
                >
                > Another point I was trying to make was that being flat in itself is
                > not the holy grail of comfort and that was where the reference to flat
                > shelter floors was brought up. Shelter floors are flat but most
                > people don't find them particularly comfortable unless they use a lot
                > of cushioning with them. Many folks have gone to hammocks that use
                > stretchy nylon fabric that don't allow them to get totally flat to get
                > off those hard flat shelter floors so they could be more comfortable.
                >
                > My intent was to clarify the descriptions that were being used and to
                > point out that being comfortable isn't all about being flat, that
                > relieving uncomfortable pressure points plays a huge part it how
                > comfortable a person is.
                >
                > Dave Womble
                > aka Youngblood 2000
                > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
                >

                Dave - I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Scanned too fast
                and left my mind on idle while doing so.

                Yes you right. Flat, as in mattress flat, isn't really what I wanted.
                What I wanted most of all was to get rid of the backwards pressure on
                my knees. I guess I have just gotten into the habit of using the term
                "flat" as shorthand to mean just that.

                My Safari clone does a beautiful job of doing that. Until I took a
                wild chance and made a Bridge Hammock, that Safari clone was my
                favorite hammock. The whipping is such that I have a little platform
                formed by the folds that acted as a pillow, so none needed for my
                head. Also, the folds are such that my knees are raised just a
                fraction of an inch. Not much, but enough that the backward pressure
                is eliminated. I didn't plan the whipping like that, it just happened
                to work out that way and I love it.

                And talk about room!! That hammock is HUGE. I really got to the point
                that I like a HUGE hammock for the roominess and the fact that the
                ridge line was up high and out of my face and I didn't attempt to
                decapitate myself on it getting into and out of the hammock.

                I prefer hammocks with ridge lines and will not use one without
                anymore. That is my personal preference.

                But my Safari clone is HEAVY, HEAVY and oh by the way did I mention
                that it is HEAVY. Almost 1 lb just for the fabric, then add in the bug
                netting, the Velcro for the bottom entry/exit slit, the Velcro on the
                edges and the bug netting to make the bug netting removable, the bias
                tape used for trim instead of hems and the weight is up to almost 2
                lbs. Then add in the snake skins and a tarp and we are talking
                significant weight here.

                The Safari clone is a very, very comfortable hammock, but the price
                paid is weight.

                Tim mentioned the view. That was another problem with the Safari
                clone. Laying on the diagonal, there is a veritable wall of material
                to your right. The view to the right is blocked almost totally from
                your feet around to the head end, continuing around almost to the left
                shoulder. About the only place you can really see out of that hammock
                is from the left shoulder down to the the level of the hips. Then the
                fabric starts rising up and blocking everything again. If anything
                wanted to sneak and surprise you, just come from your right side
                towards your head. You wouldn't see a thing.

                So what happened when I laid in my Bridge Hammock after I got the
                ridge line and spreaders adjusted properly??

                Well, first of all, I noticed that I do need a head pillow just like I
                do on my memory foam mattress. Then I noticed that I also will
                probably use a small pillow under my knees occasionally just like I do
                on my memory foam mattress. In the Bridge Hammock, I use one of those
                air pillows from BPL for my knees. Deflated it weighs approximately 1
                oz, maybe less. If I had known about the less expensive sources for
                that pillow, I would have purchased there instead of BPL, but what the
                heck.

                I learned fast that the air pillow doesn't work for my head, the air
                doesn't stay in one place and my head just flops from side to side.
                Useless for my head. So I invented a built-in pillow for my Bridge
                Hammock. It isn't really a pillow, but a platform made out of 1.1 oz
                ripstop, grosgrain and guy line cord. Works great when sleeping on my
                back and even better than a pillow when on my side. And being
                built-in, it cannot get lost an weighs approximately 1 oz or less.
                Also, since it is made out of 1.1 oz ripstop, it conforms to my head
                and cushions.

                One thing I didn't like about the Bridge Hammock was sleeping on my
                side - no room for my arms. They ended up folded across my chest. If
                you have seen the picture of the guy in the OZ site, that is what he
                is doing. I like to kind of have the underside arm extended under my
                head or out in front of me. The Safari clone was great for that. Just
                cannot do that in the Bridge Hammock without my built-in
                pillow/platform. The platform supports my head at just the right
                height (which is easily adjustable) and my arm can then be extended up
                under the pillow and my head. Until I invented the built-in pillow,
                sleeping on my side was a struggle with the un-natural position for
                me. With the built-in pillow, I fall to sleep on my side, either side,
                in seconds or minutes.

                Now back to something I really, really, really like about the Bridge
                Hammock ---- The View. I have more unobstructed view from my Bridge
                Hammock than any hammock I have ever laid in. That dip in the middle
                affords the best view out the sides I have ever seen in a hammock. The
                rising sides on the foot of the hammock are seen pretty much on edge
                and present almost no obstruction to the view. The rising sides on
                head of the hammock are steeper than on the foot and consequently
                present less obstruction than the foot sides would. True, you are
                looking at the head sides full on, but there just seems to be less
                there. Directly over the feet and directly overhead, the hammock can
                be fully open or closed, my choice. I can fully open for an
                unobstructed view or close off fully to block wind or I can open/close
                partially for a view and ventilation compromise.

                The view is obstructed a whole lot when I install my poncho liner as
                an under quilt. The liner is stretched out under the hammock and acts
                like a huge bathtub, only open ended. When it is cold and windy out, I
                close off the hammock above my head and below my feet to block wind
                and then the high sides of the poncho liner accomplish the same for
                the sides even with that dip in the middle of the hammock. Getting in
                with the poncho liner installed as an under quilt is not an issue. The
                foot end is secured with shock cord. So I just pull the side of the
                liner down to the webbing on the hammock and enter/exit normally. The
                poncho liner snaps back into place. No problem. I have a piece of
                shock cord attached to the middle of one side of the poncho liner.
                That cord gets run over the ridge line and clipped with a micro
                carabiner to the other side. It is secured only when I am in the
                hammock - just grab the cord, throw over the ridge line, catch and
                clip - done is 2 or 3 seconds. With the poncho liner secured at four
                corners and the middle it is snug. To get even more insulation, as I
                wrote previously, I just lay my Gossamer Gear Thinlight pads on top of
                the liner. Since they are under the hammock and on top of the liner,
                they stay in place as if stitched there no matter how much I move
                about and toss and turn. Nothing special needed. With the cut down
                section turned perpendicular, I have insulation up past my shoulders
                when on my back

                Using one of the small IR thermometers, I have observed a little
                better than 15* F difference between ambient air inside the
                hammock/liner "bathtub" and the hammock fabric under my back with both
                the poncho liner and the GG pads. The GG pads put 3/4" thick
                insulation under my torso. Also, I have observed about a 5* F to 10* F
                difference in ambient temperature inside the poncho liner "bathtub"
                and the outside air. The latter was with only a small wind outside. I
                am thinking of making a "bug netting" out of 1.1 oz ripstop. It isn't
                for bugs, but to act as an overcover to seal the hammock with the
                poncho liner or under quilt. Would only use when it is very windy and
                very cold. I would then slightly open either the cover above my head
                or below my feet or both for ventilation.

                Roominess??? My Safari clone is the epitome of roominess for all
                hammocks except big Mayans. But then The Safari is essentially,
                almost, a Mayan hammock with bug netting and bottom entry/exit.

                How does the Bridge Hammock compare? Quite well in my opinion. It
                doesn't have the "acres" of fabric that a Mayan or the Safari has. But
                it also doesn't constrict me much either. With a spreader bar above my
                head of 105 cm (41.3 inches - my tape measure is graduated in metric
                so I end up mixing metric and English units), shoulder squeeze is not
                an issue for me. But then I don't have a line backer's shoulders
                either. I'm not diminutive either - my chest measures between 44" and
                45" and if I include my arms, it measures between 50" and 51". So that
                gives you something to compare with for shoulder squeeze.

                I have found that for me, I really don't need the "acres" of fabric
                and the subsequent weight to have roominess.

                I sleep exclusively on my side and back with a preference for my side.
                I'm adaptable and can sleep on my back exclusively and on my stomach
                if forced, but I find sleeping on my stomach uncomfortable - I usually
                get a sore neck.

                To get an idea of how the Bridge Hammock works, do a thought
                experiment. As an engineer you are probably used to doing this.

                First get a picture of a big Mayan Hammock with a person laying
                totally on the diagonal, laying perpendicular to the line from tree to
                tree. Picture the roominess and comfort and lack of shoulder squeeze.

                Got It??

                Okay, now leaving the person in the hammock and the hammock in the
                air, unhitch from the trees.

                Now, take the ends where the whipping is, un-whip the ends and spread
                the fabric out flat. Remember the hammock is still in the air with the
                person in it.

                Now you have all of that fabric with the person in the "bathtub".

                Cut away all of the extraneous fabric. Cut it down to about 2 feet
                above the person laying in the hammock.

                You will notice that in the middle, where you cut the fabric away, the
                fabric is loose and tight only at the corners.

                To get rid of the looseness, we'll take a lesson from bridge builders
                and cut again, only this time instead of cutting on a straight line,
                we'll cut an arc, low in the middle. Taking another lesson from the
                bridge builders, we'll make the arc steeper where he upper body is. We
                do this since the steeper arc supports the extra weight of the upper
                body better.

                Now sew some supporting rope or webbing along both cuts, rotate the
                whole thing 90 degrees and extend the rope or webbing out to the trees
                and you essentially have the Bridge Hammock. Some of the details about
                sewing and using a mixture of webbing and rope and joining the ropes
                to get 1 rope running to the tree have to be added to finish, but you
                get the idea.

                You still have the roominess and comfort of that Mayan Hammock, but
                have eliminated a lot of weight.
              • C C Wayah
                Ok Dave, Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find a way to tandem the tarps together? My husband and I had a hard time
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ok Dave,
                  Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find
                  a way to tandem the tarps together?
                  My husband and I had a hard time finding four suitable trees north of Woody
                  gap that wasn't full of poison ivy this summer. We found two trees across a
                  cleared side trail easily but not four in a reasonable distance from each
                  other so that only one of us was not in the PI.
                  .
                  Rogene


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                  To: <hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:33 AM
                  Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?


                  > GrizzlyAdams,
                  >
                  > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
                  > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
                  > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
                  > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
                  > familiar with.
                  >
                  > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
                  > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
                  > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
                  > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
                  > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
                  > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
                  > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
                  > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
                  > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
                  > the hammock bed help with that?
                  >
                  > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
                  > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
                  > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
                  > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
                  > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
                  > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
                  > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
                  > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
                  > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
                  > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
                  > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
                  > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
                  >
                  > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
                  > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
                  > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
                  > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
                  > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
                  > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
                  > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
                  > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
                  > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
                  > trees we see.
                  >
                  > Dave Womble
                  > aka Youngblood 2000
                  > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • terry_and_pearl
                  ... curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . ... not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform. ... wide
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight
                    curve is hard for me to detect. i need to get someone to check it w/
                    a line<g>.
                    > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/
                    not much sag. i also use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                    >
                    > but when i've laid in other hammock types... a loosely hung, 5'
                    wide by 11' long hammock (dave's), & a hh clone (headchange's) i was
                    also so close to flat that if there was a sag going in the direction
                    of a banana, it was very minimal & i was extreamly comfrtable w/o a
                    DAM. mater a fact in dave's wide hammock, my feet seemed to rest a
                    few inches lower than my back as they were off to one side, and the
                    back/torso was perfectly supported.
                    > the only reason i haven't made a wider hammock like that is
                    more hammock material & more insulation. but it was so comfortable, i
                    might could do w/o the DAM.
                    >
                    > i haven't wanted to be negative toward the bridge type hammocks,
                    because they will probably suit some folks better, but the two i've
                    laid in seemed far to rigid & non-conforming after using the more
                    common types.
                    > i disliked the shoulder squeeze too but of course i realize
                    that can probably be helped by using longer spreader bars.
                    >
                    > another thing i really like about my hammock style is lower
                    sides for a great view!!! ...tim
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                    > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at
                    Yahoo! Games.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    Tim - you're probably not a good candidate for a Bridge Hammock. You
                    seem to have found what you like and is comfortable for you. Maybe a
                    good idea to stick with it.

                    I'm just having a lot of fun in designing something completely new and
                    different and also enjoying the fact that for me it works so very well.

                    I'm really not trying to talk anybody into the Bridge Hammock instead
                    of something else. I just get enthusiastic and like to share that with
                    others. If I didn't enjoy the Bridge Hammock I just wouldn't do it.
                    Sorry if that comes across as being pushy or anything - it's not meant
                    to be that way.
                  • tim garner
                    if you go to the photo gallery, go to the last page & back up one, you will see several photos starting w/ slowhike . check the one that says three
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 24, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      if you go to the photo gallery, go to the last page & back up one, you will see several photos starting w/ "slowhike". check the one that says "three hammocks".
                      it's a lot easier to find there trees for two hammocks than four.
                      we have set 2 & 3 hammocks beside each other many times, using the same tree for the foot end hammock supports & two separate trees for the head end supports.


                      C C Wayah <ccwayah@...> wrote:
                      Ok Dave,
                      Can this strut system work with the hennery hammocks with one tarp or find
                      a way to tandem the tarps together?
                      My husband and I had a hard time finding four suitable trees north of Woody
                      gap that wasn't full of poison ivy this summer. We found two trees across a
                      cleared side trail easily but not four in a reasonable distance from each
                      other so that only one of us was not in the PI.
                      .
                      Rogene


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Dave Womble"
                      To:
                      Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:33 AM
                      Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Bridge Hammock ...is it cumfortable?


                      > GrizzlyAdams,
                      >
                      > I couldn't get the photo link to work this morning but I think I have
                      > seen the photos you refer too. You and I could probably get lost in
                      > technical talk but most folks don't want to hear that, they just want
                      > to know how it performs and compares relative to something they are
                      > familiar with.
                      >
                      > Getting into and out of hammocks is a tricky proposition with all
                      > hammocks and is something I get concerned with from time to time. You
                      > have to pay attention to what you are doing, particularly the novice
                      > hammock user or someone using underquilts, peapods or most any other
                      > insulation as they do add some level of complexity to the process.
                      > The narrow mid section that one would presumably first sit in on your
                      > bridge hammock is the first thing I notice. I have noticed that
                      > narrow conventional hammocks are more difficult to safely enter that
                      > wider conventional hammocks. Do the spreader bars somewhat opening up
                      > the hammock bed help with that?
                      >
                      > And speaking of those wide spreader bars, whether they are dedicated
                      > poles or hiking poles, they present new issues besides the torque and
                      > tension on them and the hammock bed. I have used similar struts to
                      > experiment with hammocks and to attach two hammocks side by side to
                      > the same trees (http://tinyurl.com/2o7qu5). I don't believe the ones
                      > I used would be as high as the ones you have on your bridge hammock
                      > and I don't think they were as long. But I worried they were
                      > something that could potentially be a problem with tarp coverage,
                      > possibly snagging someone walking nearby, or poke a tarp when the
                      > hammocks swing or are pushed to one side. Certainly that is not a
                      > particularly difficult technical issue to resolve, but it is different
                      > than the customary backpacking hammocks.
                      >
                      > The bridge hammock has some significant differences from what folks
                      > are use to and I would think most folks are concerned with the
                      > differences-- the tradeoffs if you will, both the positive ones, the
                      > negative ones, and even the ones that are six of one versus half a
                      > dozen of the other. Something laid out simple and brief to help them
                      > understand just what it is and what it can do for them versus what it
                      > isn't and what it can't do for them. And I know that is sometimes
                      > difficult for technical folks involved in design specifics to do-- we
                      > often have a hard time seeing the forest because of all the specific
                      > trees we see.
                      >
                      > Dave Womble
                      > aka Youngblood 2000
                      > designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >




                      Yahoo! Groups Links






                      don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                      ---------------------------------
                      Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • milwaukee_son
                      ... detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line . ... use a DAM, softly inflated to conform. ... Tim, I ve seen pictures of you in your hammock. How
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to
                        detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line<g>.
                        > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also
                        use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                        >

                        Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your DAM? How effective is it at
                        pushing out the sides of your hammock?

                        I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge hammock could be a 26" wide
                        Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter sleeping bag. If the spreader
                        bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out whatever shoulder squeeze
                        there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating tent" like feel, with closure
                        small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement, and large enough to be
                        comfortable.
                      • tim garner
                        i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23 wide inflated. it does keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn t mind a few more inches width
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23" wide inflated. it does keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn't mind a few more inches width in cold weather so there would be more room for the quilt's full loft.
                          i may be trying a warmlight DAM soon. it's a little wider.



                          milwaukee_son <milwaukee_son@...> wrote:
                          --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight curve is hard for me to
                          detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line.
                          > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not much sag. i also
                          use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                          >

                          Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your DAM? How effective is it at
                          pushing out the sides of your hammock?

                          I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge hammock could be a 26" wide
                          Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter sleeping bag. If the spreader
                          bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out whatever shoulder squeeze
                          there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating tent" like feel, with closure
                          small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement, and large enough to be
                          comfortable.







                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


                          ---------------------------------
                          Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Dave Womble
                          Tim, If you have a 20 wide Exped-7, it will fit into the sleeve of a SPE and you can use the wings to effectively extend the width. I use a SPE when I use my
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 25, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Tim,

                            If you have a 20" wide Exped-7, it will fit into the sleeve of a SPE
                            and you can use the wings to effectively extend the width. I use a
                            SPE when I use my 20" wide Exped-7 but don't use anything with my
                            large Stephenson DAM that is 28" at its widest... except for the
                            10"x20" ccf pad that I use under it to keep it from sliding so easily
                            against the hammock bed.

                            I found these large pads to be warm and comfy. They affect the lay of
                            the hammock, basically reducing shoulder squeeze and knee
                            hyper-extension while providing the ultimate in cushioning. Your
                            knees drop some if the mat isn't fully inflated because your heels
                            sink a little, with the 4+ inch thick Stephenson DAM you can hang your
                            heels off the end and get even more heel drop. With either one of
                            those DAMs, I just laugh at hard shelter floors and they probably make
                            hard shelter floors as comfortable, if not more for some folks, than a
                            nice hammock... you are flat, have no shoulder squeeze and have plenty
                            of cushioning.

                            But, they are not without some negative tradeoffs as well and those
                            are significant enough to consider before you think the DAMs are
                            perfect in every way. The first negative tradeoff I noticed was what
                            a pain they are to inflate and deflate in a hammock environment...
                            especially when it is very cold, which is where they excel in keeping
                            you warm.

                            Dave Womble
                            aka Youngblood 2000
                            Designer of the Speer Segmented Pad Extender and SnugFit Underquilt

                            --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > i believe the exped 7 i have is about 23" wide inflated. it does
                            keep the hammock walls spread really well. at times i wouldn't mind a
                            few more inches width in cold weather so there would be more room for
                            the quilt's full loft.
                            > i may be trying a warmlight DAM soon. it's a little wider.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > milwaukee_son <milwaukee_son@...> wrote:
                            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > i have to say, in my hammock i'm so close to flat that the slight
                            curve is hard for me to
                            > detect. i need to get someone to check it w/ a line.
                            > > i use a different method than most... narrow hammock, hung w/ not
                            much sag. i also
                            > use a DAM, softly inflated to conform.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Tim, I've seen pictures of you in your hammock. How wide is your
                            DAM? How effective is it at
                            > pushing out the sides of your hammock?
                            >
                            > I'm thinking that a set up for a really cold night in a bridge
                            hammock could be a 26" wide
                            > Exped DAM inside the bridge, sleeping in a normal deep winter
                            sleeping bag. If the spreader
                            > bars are closer to 36" than 42" inches and the DAM pushes out
                            whatever shoulder squeeze
                            > there is, with an overcover one would have quite a nice "floating
                            tent" like feel, with closure
                            > small enough to keep some heat (or at least cut the air movement,
                            and large enough to be
                            > comfortable.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with
                            Yahoo! Autos.
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
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