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Re: Giving Up

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  • Brona
    Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training that goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying fight this, it isn t right! and
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 9, 2007
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      Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training that
      goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying "fight this,
      it isn't right!" and then the other 3/4's says "the battle is too
      large and not worth it, just go hike."
      It looks like hopefully this winter/fall we might be heading out
      your way....hike, visit family, Mexico for dental work, etc. It
      would be great if you know of some trails that we "just can't miss"
      to get some information from you.
      Hopefully our trails will cross,
      Brona and Thomas
      Buddah and Cosmo

      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Galchutt"
      <s2ranch@...> wrote:
      >
      > > really sorry to hear that brona.
      >
      > Me too Brona!
      >
      > Especially since I'm also a goat packer! I love my goats and
      > love to take them back packing. They are the best trail buddies
      > imaginable. Low impact, non aggressive, quiet gentle creatures who
      > love to hike and explore with me while helping carry the load!
      >
      > I'm always sorry to hear about goats being banded from an area!
      Hope
      > there's a good reason?! But NPS and NFS have their 'rules' which
      > sometimes make sense and sometimes it's all political nonsense(BS)
      > IMHO. The problem is we have to play by their rules or beg
      forgiveness
      > and/or pay their fines!
      >
      > Best of Luck! Hope you find your rig!
      >
      > Cheers, Steve in CO
      > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/goatman
      >
    • tim garner
      hopefuly yall can make it to hot springs (sept 14-16). i know of several that plan to be there. and hopefuly, it ll be cooler by then. ...tim Brona
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 9, 2007
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        hopefuly yall can make it to hot springs (sept 14-16). i know of several that plan to be there.
        and hopefuly, it'll be cooler by then. ...tim

        Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
        We remember meeting you at Hot Springs. If you remember our little
        trailer and the red Toyota truck, well, you won't be seeing either
        again. And if you do see either, let us know. Better yet, tie them
        to the nearest tree.

        Hopefully this winter we will be able to get out again. Right now
        it is just too hot to even think about hitting any trail for us.

        Look forward to seeing you again, maybe in Hot Springs.
        Brona

        --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
        wrote:
        >
        > really sorry to hear that brona.
        > i meet you at one of ed & karen's camp outs at hot springs last
        year.
        > i don't know what to say except that those that are supposed
        to be managing our resources, usually forget where their priorities
        are supposed to be.
        > but i hope you'll continue to take advantage of all the
        trails you can. ...tim
        >
        >
        > Brona wrote:
        > I have put off writing this for sometime now trying to decide
        just
        > what is the best course of action. (For those of you who don't
        > know, I have been in an arm wrestling match with the NPS to allow
        my
        > Registered Service Animals, which are goats, to be on the trail
        thus
        > allowing me access to the AT.)
        > The AT community has become somewhat of a family for me and hiking
        > on the AT - a passion. Yes, there are other trails but none like
        > the AT and it is sooooo close for me. Yes, there may be other
        > communities but none like the folks associated with the AT.
        > Everyone on this group is special.
        > It seems that the NPS has the upper, larger hand when it comes to
        > this arm wrestling match. I am out here all alone. There seems to
        > be no group, organization, lawyer, etc wishing to assist me. Even
        > the ACLU doesn't tackle this kind of thing! This is not a fight I
        > can fight alone. My health is too fragile. My time is too
        > valuable.
        > I am making the decision to spend my time quietly in the woods
        > somewhere else other than fighting a seemingly pointless, useless,
        > endless battle. I have no desire to be a poster child for this
        > battle.
        > What the NPS has done is illegal and a slap in the face for all
        > disabled people. I have asked for nothing more than to let me hike
        > the trail. What I ask the NPS for costs them no money or time. The
        > NPS did give me an alternative (which they legally have to do).
        > That is to allow the group size to increase so that I could have
        > other people carry my things for me. What an insult! Not to speak
        > of what additional people would do to the trail compared to my
        > service animals. And that act would also take away my independance
        > which the service animals provide. Even if I didn't prefer the
        > solitude of the trail, I can't afford to "hire" anyone to go with
        > me. Besides, not many people want to be on the trail during the
        > winter/colder months. I was also told by the NPS that I could not
        > be on the AT period but could be on the other trails that cross
        the
        > AT. This in effect is closing the entire AT park to me and that is
        > also illegal.
        > It would be great to be a "normal" person without the need for
        > Service Animals. To have the freedom to be able to go and do
        > without the extra baggage associated with being "imperfect". To be
        > able to do things "normal" people can do. But I am not. I am me
        > and this is what I have in my life and what I have to deal with.
        If
        > I had a choice, I wouldn't choose the extra burden of having to
        deal
        > with service animals on the trail. I too would prefer to have
        > nothing more than my own pack on my back.
        >
        > An update on the theft of our truck and camping trailer from
        > Damascus, VA: There is nothing new except that now that the Police
        > Chief has been arrested for illegal activity, we wonder if their
        > might be some ties to the auto thefts in the area as they did tell
        > us where to park and that it would be safe. The truck and trailer
        > have not been located. I currently have my SUV for sale so that I
        > can purchase a replacement truck which I have found. Also, I am
        > looking for a slide-in camper for a short bed truck. The service
        > animals will be in their pull along trailer as before.
        >
        > Thanks to all and enjoy!
        > Brona
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not
        web links.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        Yahoo! Groups Links






        don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


        ---------------------------------
        Got a little couch potato?
        Check out fun summer activities for kids.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Randal Swink
        So, what animals do they allow to use the trail? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 9, 2007
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          So, what animals do they allow to use the trail?



          On 8/9/07, Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
          >
          > Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training that
          > goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying "fight this,
          > it isn't right!" and then the other 3/4's says "the battle is too
          > large and not worth it, just go hike."
          > It looks like hopefully this winter/fall we might be heading out
          > your way....hike, visit family, Mexico for dental work, etc. It
          > would be great if you know of some trails that we "just can't miss"
          > to get some information from you.
          > Hopefully our trails will cross,
          > Brona and Thomas
          > Buddah and Cosmo
          >
          > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Galchutt"
          > <s2ranch@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > really sorry to hear that brona.
          > >
          > > Me too Brona!
          > >
          > > Especially since I'm also a goat packer! I love my goats and
          > > love to take them back packing. They are the best trail buddies
          > > imaginable. Low impact, non aggressive, quiet gentle creatures who
          > > love to hike and explore with me while helping carry the load!
          > >
          > > I'm always sorry to hear about goats being banded from an area!
          > Hope
          > > there's a good reason?! But NPS and NFS have their 'rules' which
          > > sometimes make sense and sometimes it's all political nonsense(BS)
          > > IMHO. The problem is we have to play by their rules or beg
          > forgiveness
          > > and/or pay their fines!
          > >
          > > Best of Luck! Hope you find your rig!
          > >
          > > Cheers, Steve in CO
          > > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/goatman
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stuhr, Tim
          I don t think the Smoky Mtn. NP allows any animals to use the trail. But I could be wrong. ... From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 9, 2007
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            I don't think the Smoky Mtn. NP allows any animals to use the trail.
            But I could be wrong.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randal Swink
            Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:03 PM
            To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Giving Up

            So, what animals do they allow to use the trail?



            On 8/9/07, Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
            >
            > Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training that
            > goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying "fight this,
            > it isn't right!" and then the other 3/4's says "the battle is too
            > large and not worth it, just go hike."
            > It looks like hopefully this winter/fall we might be heading out
            > your way....hike, visit family, Mexico for dental work, etc. It
            > would be great if you know of some trails that we "just can't miss"
            > to get some information from you.
            > Hopefully our trails will cross,
            > Brona and Thomas
            > Buddah and Cosmo
            >
            > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Galchutt"
            > <s2ranch@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > really sorry to hear that brona.
            > >
            > > Me too Brona!
            > >
            > > Especially since I'm also a goat packer! I love my goats and
            > > love to take them back packing. They are the best trail buddies
            > > imaginable. Low impact, non aggressive, quiet gentle creatures who
            > > love to hike and explore with me while helping carry the load!
            > >
            > > I'm always sorry to hear about goats being banded from an area!
            > Hope
            > > there's a good reason?! But NPS and NFS have their 'rules' which
            > > sometimes make sense and sometimes it's all political nonsense(BS)
            > > IMHO. The problem is we have to play by their rules or beg
            > forgiveness
            > > and/or pay their fines!
            > >
            > > Best of Luck! Hope you find your rig!
            > >
            > > Cheers, Steve in CO
            > > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/goatman
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Brona
            The NPS-AT Web site states that horses are not allowed. The AT is a foot trail for foot traffic. However if you hike the trail, you will find dogs and other
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 10, 2007
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              The NPS-AT Web site states that horses are not allowed. The AT is a
              foot trail for foot traffic. However if you hike the trail, you
              will find dogs and other "pets". There are some areas where horse
              trails cross the AT and packstock/horses are allowed there.


              --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Randal Swink" <rswink@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > So, what animals do they allow to use the trail?
              >
              >
              >
              > On 8/9/07, Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training
              that
              > > goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying "fight
              this,
              > > it isn't right!" and then the other 3/4's says "the battle is too
              > > large and not worth it, just go hike."
              > > It looks like hopefully this winter/fall we might be heading
              out
              > > your way....hike, visit family, Mexico for dental work, etc. It
              > > would be great if you know of some trails that we "just can't
              miss"
              > > to get some information from you.
              > > Hopefully our trails will cross,
              > > Brona and Thomas
              > > Buddah and Cosmo
              > >
              > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Galchutt"
              > > <s2ranch@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > really sorry to hear that brona.
              > > >
              > > > Me too Brona!
              > > >
              > > > Especially since I'm also a goat packer! I love my goats and
              > > > love to take them back packing. They are the best trail buddies
              > > > imaginable. Low impact, non aggressive, quiet gentle creatures
              who
              > > > love to hike and explore with me while helping carry the load!
              > > >
              > > > I'm always sorry to hear about goats being banded from an area!
              > > Hope
              > > > there's a good reason?! But NPS and NFS have their 'rules'
              which
              > > > sometimes make sense and sometimes it's all political nonsense
              (BS)
              > > > IMHO. The problem is we have to play by their rules or beg
              > > forgiveness
              > > > and/or pay their fines!
              > > >
              > > > Best of Luck! Hope you find your rig!
              > > >
              > > > Cheers, Steve in CO
              > > > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/goatman
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Brona
              You are correct, GSMNP does not allow any animals. Nor does Baxter. However, prior to starting on the AT and knowing the rules for GSMNP, I emailed and asked
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 10, 2007
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                You are correct, GSMNP does not allow any animals. Nor does
                Baxter. However, prior to starting on the AT and knowing the rules
                for GSMNP, I emailed and asked if service animals are allowed on the
                AT through their park. The reply was:

                "Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 2:26 PM
                Subject: service animals on A.T. in Smokies

                Park regulations allow for service animals on trails. Generally
                proof is not required as need is apparent although most service
                animals do have certification papers.
                George Minnigh
                Park Ranger"

                Brona

                -- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Stuhr, Tim" <tstuhr@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I don't think the Smoky Mtn. NP allows any animals to use the
                trail.
                > But I could be wrong.
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randal Swink
                > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:03 PM
                > To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Giving Up
                >
                > So, what animals do they allow to use the trail?
                >
                >
                >
                > On 8/9/07, Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Steve, Then you can appreciate the kind of time and training
                that
                > > goes into having goats. A part of my mind keeps saying "fight
                this,
                > > it isn't right!" and then the other 3/4's says "the battle is too
                > > large and not worth it, just go hike."
                > > It looks like hopefully this winter/fall we might be heading
                out
                > > your way....hike, visit family, Mexico for dental work, etc. It
                > > would be great if you know of some trails that we "just can't
                miss"
                > > to get some information from you.
                > > Hopefully our trails will cross,
                > > Brona and Thomas
                > > Buddah and Cosmo
                > >
                > > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Galchutt"
                > > <s2ranch@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > really sorry to hear that brona.
                > > >
                > > > Me too Brona!
                > > >
                > > > Especially since I'm also a goat packer! I love my goats and
                > > > love to take them back packing. They are the best trail buddies
                > > > imaginable. Low impact, non aggressive, quiet gentle creatures
                who
                > > > love to hike and explore with me while helping carry the load!
                > > >
                > > > I'm always sorry to hear about goats being banded from an area!
                > > Hope
                > > > there's a good reason?! But NPS and NFS have their 'rules'
                which
                > > > sometimes make sense and sometimes it's all political nonsense
                (BS)
                > > > IMHO. The problem is we have to play by their rules or beg
                > > forgiveness
                > > > and/or pay their fines!
                > > >
                > > > Best of Luck! Hope you find your rig!
                > > >
                > > > Cheers, Steve in CO
                > > > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/goatman
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
              • Brona
                Tim, Thanks for sending the dates. We will look into it and see if we can get there. Hopefully, it will be cooler. Brona ... several that plan to be there.
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 10, 2007
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                  Tim,
                  Thanks for sending the dates. We will look into it and see if we
                  can get there. Hopefully, it will be cooler.
                  Brona

                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > hopefuly yall can make it to hot springs (sept 14-16). i know of
                  several that plan to be there.
                  > and hopefuly, it'll be cooler by then. ...tim
                  >
                  > Brona <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
                  > We remember meeting you at Hot Springs. If you remember our
                  little
                  > trailer and the red Toyota truck, well, you won't be seeing either
                  > again. And if you do see either, let us know. Better yet, tie them
                  > to the nearest tree.
                  >
                  > Hopefully this winter we will be able to get out again. Right now
                  > it is just too hot to even think about hitting any trail for us.
                  >
                  > Look forward to seeing you again, maybe in Hot Springs.
                  > Brona
                  >
                  > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > really sorry to hear that brona.
                  > > i meet you at one of ed & karen's camp outs at hot springs last
                  > year.
                  > > i don't know what to say except that those that are supposed
                  > to be managing our resources, usually forget where their
                  priorities
                  > are supposed to be.
                  > > but i hope you'll continue to take advantage of all the
                  > trails you can. ...tim
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Brona wrote:
                  > > I have put off writing this for sometime now trying to decide
                  > just
                  > > what is the best course of action. (For those of you who don't
                  > > know, I have been in an arm wrestling match with the NPS to
                  allow
                  > my
                  > > Registered Service Animals, which are goats, to be on the trail
                  > thus
                  > > allowing me access to the AT.)
                  > > The AT community has become somewhat of a family for me and
                  hiking
                  > > on the AT - a passion. Yes, there are other trails but none like
                  > > the AT and it is sooooo close for me. Yes, there may be other
                  > > communities but none like the folks associated with the AT.
                  > > Everyone on this group is special.
                  > > It seems that the NPS has the upper, larger hand when it comes
                  to
                  > > this arm wrestling match. I am out here all alone. There seems
                  to
                  > > be no group, organization, lawyer, etc wishing to assist me.
                  Even
                  > > the ACLU doesn't tackle this kind of thing! This is not a fight
                  I
                  > > can fight alone. My health is too fragile. My time is too
                  > > valuable.
                  > > I am making the decision to spend my time quietly in the woods
                  > > somewhere else other than fighting a seemingly pointless,
                  useless,
                  > > endless battle. I have no desire to be a poster child for this
                  > > battle.
                  > > What the NPS has done is illegal and a slap in the face for all
                  > > disabled people. I have asked for nothing more than to let me
                  hike
                  > > the trail. What I ask the NPS for costs them no money or time.
                  The
                  > > NPS did give me an alternative (which they legally have to do).
                  > > That is to allow the group size to increase so that I could have
                  > > other people carry my things for me. What an insult! Not to
                  speak
                  > > of what additional people would do to the trail compared to my
                  > > service animals. And that act would also take away my
                  independance
                  > > which the service animals provide. Even if I didn't prefer the
                  > > solitude of the trail, I can't afford to "hire" anyone to go
                  with
                  > > me. Besides, not many people want to be on the trail during the
                  > > winter/colder months. I was also told by the NPS that I could
                  not
                  > > be on the AT period but could be on the other trails that cross
                  > the
                  > > AT. This in effect is closing the entire AT park to me and that
                  is
                  > > also illegal.
                  > > It would be great to be a "normal" person without the need for
                  > > Service Animals. To have the freedom to be able to go and do
                  > > without the extra baggage associated with being "imperfect". To
                  be
                  > > able to do things "normal" people can do. But I am not. I am me
                  > > and this is what I have in my life and what I have to deal with.
                  > If
                  > > I had a choice, I wouldn't choose the extra burden of having to
                  > deal
                  > > with service animals on the trail. I too would prefer to have
                  > > nothing more than my own pack on my back.
                  > >
                  > > An update on the theft of our truck and camping trailer from
                  > > Damascus, VA: There is nothing new except that now that the
                  Police
                  > > Chief has been arrested for illegal activity, we wonder if their
                  > > might be some ties to the auto thefts in the area as they did
                  tell
                  > > us where to park and that it would be safe. The truck and
                  trailer
                  > > have not been located. I currently have my SUV for sale so that
                  I
                  > > can purchase a replacement truck which I have found. Also, I am
                  > > looking for a slide-in camper for a short bed truck. The service
                  > > animals will be in their pull along trailer as before.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks to all and enjoy!
                  > > Brona
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not
                  > web links.
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Got a little couch potato?
                  > Check out fun summer activities for kids.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Bonnie
                  ... Hi Brona, I understand your feelings. I have mobility issues and I am amazed at the blatant disregard of ADA laws by our government. Right now though I
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 11, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brona" <i_reiki_u2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have put off writing this for sometime now trying to decide just
                    > what is the best course of action. (For those of you who don't
                    > know, I have been in an arm wrestling match with the NPS to allow my
                    > Registered Service Animals, which are goats, to be on the trail thus
                    > allowing me access to the AT.)
                    >
                    Hi Brona,
                    I understand your feelings. I have mobility issues and I am amazed at
                    the blatant disregard of ADA laws by our government. Right now though
                    I wanted to pass on some links you might find interesting.

                    Scroll down to the end of the page where it says GOT YOUR GOAT
                    http://www.bmta.org/NewsItems.htm#NewsNo2

                    http://www.motherearthnews.com/Livestock-and-Farming/2002-06-01/Want-Milk-Get-Goats.aspx

                    Enjoy the woods,
                    Bonnie
                  • Brona
                    Bonnie, Thanks for the links. I agree that at this moment, even with the ADA laws, most government agencies feel that they can make up their own rules and
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 14, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bonnie,
                      Thanks for the links. I agree that at this moment, even with the
                      ADA laws, most government agencies feel that they can make up their
                      own rules and regs-specially if they are also under the Department
                      of Justice, Department of Interior.
                      Brona

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Bonnie" <treehugger@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brona" <i_reiki_u2@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I have put off writing this for sometime now trying to decide
                      just
                      > > what is the best course of action. (For those of you who don't
                      > > know, I have been in an arm wrestling match with the NPS to
                      allow my
                      > > Registered Service Animals, which are goats, to be on the trail
                      thus
                      > > allowing me access to the AT.)
                      > >
                      > Hi Brona,
                      > I understand your feelings. I have mobility issues and I am amazed
                      at
                      > the blatant disregard of ADA laws by our government. Right now
                      though
                      > I wanted to pass on some links you might find interesting.
                      >
                      > Scroll down to the end of the page where it says GOT YOUR GOAT
                      > http://www.bmta.org/NewsItems.htm#NewsNo2
                      >
                      > http://www.motherearthnews.com/Livestock-and-Farming/2002-06-
                      01/Want-Milk-Get-Goats.aspx
                      >
                      > Enjoy the woods,
                      > Bonnie
                      >
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