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Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock

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  • Steve Bennett
    I think you may be too flat sleeping in a hammock. If you are car camping you could try a reclining deck chair with your pad on top.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 25, 2007
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      I think you may be too flat sleeping in a hammock.

      If you are car camping you could try a reclining deck chair with your
      pad on top.


      On Jun 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Mary Neal wrote:

      >
      > We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I
      > need. I
      > also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting
      > position. I won't
      > let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking
      > for some
      > way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
      > self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a
      > pinch I can
      > prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after
      > awhile.
      > Mary
      >
      >> From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
      >> Reply-To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      >> To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock
      >> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:13:08 -0000
      >>
      >> If you want to sleep in a tent with your family, you might just want
      >> more cushioned pads or cots. Air mattress for camping that are 3
      >> inches or so thick are likely what you want and can be had with
      >> insulation inside them or without insulation. The department stores
      >> sell uninsulated ones for car camping in various sizes with manual
      >> pumps or pumps you can plug into your car's cigarette lighter and
      >> those are probably 6 inches or so thick. The least expensive ones
      >> don't have insulation but you can use the insulation in the pads you
      >> have now by stacking them on top of the air mats and securing them
      >> with one of several means if you need to, the simplest is just a pair
      >> of ribbons sewn together in the appropriate length loop that wraps
      >> around both pads. How cold do you expect it to get... you are likely
      >> to need some insulation underneath you as well as cushioning?
      >>
      >> Youngblood
      >>
      >> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> I am looking for an inexpensive hammock. We (three kids and I) are
      >> going on
      >>> a three week road camping trip to Alaska from Pennsylvania. I found
      >> out
      >>> this last weekend that my "older" bones cannot handle just a
      >> sleeping pad
      >>> anymore (I have a ruptured disk in my lower back). I am open for
      >>> suggestions as to what type of portable, folding hammock to get,
      >> space is at
      >>> a premium as we are travelling in a four-door Saturn. The hammock
      >> will be
      >>> put up inside the tent. I have looked at the one from Walmart,
      >>> and the
      >>> Kelsyus. Any other suggestions?
      >>> Mary
      >>>
      >>> _________________________________________________________________
      >>> Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative
      >> now.
      >>> It's free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
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      > Microsoft
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Steve Bennett
      Mary, This cot might be of use in combination with your sleeping pad. http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 25, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Mary,

        This cot might be of use in combination with your sleeping pad.

        http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?
        product_id=2153B702&categoryid=10072


        On Jun 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Mary Neal wrote:

        >
        > We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I
        > need. I
        > also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting
        > position. I won't
        > let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking
        > for some
        > way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
        > self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a
        > pinch I can
        > prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after
        > awhile.
        > Mary
        >
        >> From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
        >> Reply-To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        >> To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock
        >> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:13:08 -0000
        >>
        >> If you want to sleep in a tent with your family, you might just want
        >> more cushioned pads or cots. Air mattress for camping that are 3
        >> inches or so thick are likely what you want and can be had with
        >> insulation inside them or without insulation. The department stores
        >> sell uninsulated ones for car camping in various sizes with manual
        >> pumps or pumps you can plug into your car's cigarette lighter and
        >> those are probably 6 inches or so thick. The least expensive ones
        >> don't have insulation but you can use the insulation in the pads you
        >> have now by stacking them on top of the air mats and securing them
        >> with one of several means if you need to, the simplest is just a pair
        >> of ribbons sewn together in the appropriate length loop that wraps
        >> around both pads. How cold do you expect it to get... you are likely
        >> to need some insulation underneath you as well as cushioning?
        >>
        >> Youngblood
        >>
        >> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> I am looking for an inexpensive hammock. We (three kids and I) are
        >> going on
        >>> a three week road camping trip to Alaska from Pennsylvania. I found
        >> out
        >>> this last weekend that my "older" bones cannot handle just a
        >> sleeping pad
        >>> anymore (I have a ruptured disk in my lower back). I am open for
        >>> suggestions as to what type of portable, folding hammock to get,
        >> space is at
        >>> a premium as we are travelling in a four-door Saturn. The hammock
        >> will be
        >>> put up inside the tent. I have looked at the one from Walmart,
        >>> and the
        >>> Kelsyus. Any other suggestions?
        >>> Mary
        >>>
        >>> _________________________________________________________________
        >>> Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative
        >> now.
        >>> It's free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > Don’t miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from
        > Microsoft
        > Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • tim garner
        mary... i ve been sleeping in a hammock nightly for over 2 years now, so i had one handy to test a thought i had about your question. normally people suggest
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 25, 2007
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          mary... i've been sleeping in a hammock nightly for over 2 years now, so i had one handy to test a thought i had about your question.
          normally people suggest having the foot end of the hammock a few inches higher than the head end simply because you will tend to find your largest body mass (the torso) in the center of the hammock, putting your feet in the small end of the hammock.
          but in your case (wanting to sleep w/ the head slightly elevated) if you hang your hammock w/ the foot end maybe about one foot lower, your feet will be near the small end of the hammock, but your head is clearly higher. i just tried it.
          i believe i could sleep just fine that way.
          a couple other things...
          1)... the type hammocks that most people are finding most practical for camping these days are not the types w/ spreader bars on each end. you'll find that type far less stable. look in the picture gallery here for examples. better yet go to the speer hammock web site for lots of pictures & info.
          ed is the owner of this yahoo group & a very nice & helpful guy. his real job just keeps him from taking part here as much as he would like<g>.
          to use inside your family tent, the top loading style (or speer type) would be most appropriate. the hennessy hammocks have a permanently attached bug net, so the only way to get to your stuff (clothes, water, etc) would be to have it inside w/ you or get out of the hammock through a bottom entry slit.
          2)... of course you'll have to have a hammock stand. there are several available that you could buy, but a couple things to keep in mind are that they need to have a base that will be easy on your tent floor & it should be long enough to fit the hammock you buy.
          there is one made by byer that i believe would fit the bill. i believe it even adjusts in length.
          seems like it's about $89 or $99 bucks. they may sell that brand at some of the sporting good stores so you could pick it up & save the shipping.
          and i believe you could hang the foot lower on that stand.
          i'll try to get a few more details later unless you get to it before me.
          there's another web site http://hammockforums.net where there is at least one active thread where people are discussing hammock stands. ...tim



          Mary Neal <sisjake@...> wrote:

          We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I need. I
          also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting position. I won't
          let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking for some
          way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
          self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a pinch I can
          prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after awhile.
          Mary




          don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


          ---------------------------------
          Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
          Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dave Womble
          Mary had looked at this http://www.rei.com/product/708210 which is a bit of a folding cot/hammock with spreader bars. It will fit inside tents that the type
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 25, 2007
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            Mary had looked at this http://www.rei.com/product/708210 which is a
            bit of a folding cot/hammock with spreader bars. It will fit inside
            tents that the type of hammocks we commonly have used for backpacking
            will not.
          • tim garner
            for mary or any one else that may feel the need to sleep in a semi-sitting position, i slept in my hammock as described below last night. worked great. i slept
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 26, 2007
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              for mary or any one else that may feel the need to sleep in a semi-sitting position, i slept in my hammock as described below last night. worked great.
              i slept both on my back & side just fine.
              but i'm afraid dave's right about the hammock stand being to big for most tents... unless you have one of the really big family size tents (for 8 or 10 people) that measures larger from wall to wall than the hammock stand. ...tim


              tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

              mary... i've been sleeping in a hammock nightly for over 2 years now, so i had one handy to test a thought i had about your question.
              normally people suggest having the foot end of the hammock a few inches higher than the head end simply because you will tend to find your largest body mass (the torso) in the center of the hammock, putting your feet in the small end of the hammock.
              but in your case (wanting to sleep w/ the head slightly elevated) if you hang your hammock w/ the foot end maybe about one foot lower, your feet will be near the small end of the hammock, but your head is clearly higher. i just tried it.
              i believe i could sleep just fine that way.
              a couple other things...
              1)... the type hammocks that most people are finding most practical for camping these days are not the types w/ spreader bars on each end. you'll find that type far less stable. look in the picture gallery here for examples. better yet go to the speer hammock web site for lots of pictures & info.
              ed is the owner of this yahoo group & a very nice & helpful guy. his real job just keeps him from taking part here as much as he would like.
              to use inside your family tent, the top loading style (or speer type) would be most appropriate. the hennessy hammocks have a permanently attached bug net, so the only way to get to your stuff (clothes, water, etc) would be to have it inside w/ you or get out of the hammock through a bottom entry slit.
              2)... of course you'll have to have a hammock stand. there are several available that you could buy, but a couple things to keep in mind are that they need to have a base that will be easy on your tent floor & it should be long enough to fit the hammock you buy.
              there is one made by byer that i believe would fit the bill. i believe it even adjusts in length.
              seems like it's about $89 or $99 bucks. they may sell that brand at some of the sporting good stores so you could pick it up & save the shipping.
              and i believe you could hang the foot lower on that stand.
              i'll try to get a few more details later unless you get to it before me.
              there's another web site http://hammockforums.net where there is at least one active thread where people are discussing hammock stands. ...tim



              don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


              ---------------------------------
              Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • chetclock
              Mary, you don t need to spend $80 or $90 on a hammock. Just go to a fabric store and buy a piece of ripstop nylon or polyester, approx 5 foot wide and 11 feet
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 26, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Mary, you don't need to spend $80 or $90 on a hammock. Just go to a
                fabric store and buy a piece of ripstop nylon or polyester, approx 5
                foot wide and 11 feet long. There are various methods of attaching
                ropes or straps to the ends, with the simplest being to just tie a
                knot in each end, and then tie a hanging strap or rope inside the knot
                on each end. You'll have a simple, comfortable, inexpensive hammock in
                about 10 minutes. And if you elect to set it up outside the tent
                (which might be easier), a simple green poly tarp (8 x 10) works well
                and will cost you less than 10 bucks. It's an inexpensive way to try
                out a hammock, and it may be all you ever need.

                Chet




                --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I am looking for an inexpensive hammock. We (three kids and I) are
                going on
                > a three week road camping trip to Alaska from Pennsylvania. I found
                out
                > this last weekend that my "older" bones cannot handle just a
                sleeping pad
                > anymore (I have a ruptured disk in my lower back). I am open for
                > suggestions as to what type of portable, folding hammock to get,
                space is at
                > a premium as we are travelling in a four-door Saturn. The hammock
                will be
                > put up inside the tent. I have looked at the one from Walmart, and the
                > Kelsyus. Any other suggestions?
                > Mary
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm Initiative
                now.
                > It's free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_June07
                >
              • Sandy Kramer
                Here s the Byer s of Maine Mosquito Traveler (has bug net, but no tarp) for $40. http://www.ccoutdoorstore.com/bymotrha.html I was in Punta Cana (Dominican
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 26, 2007
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                  Here's the Byer's of Maine Mosquito Traveler (has bug net, but no
                  tarp) for $40. http://www.ccoutdoorstore.com/bymotrha.html

                  I was in Punta Cana (Dominican Republic) for a family wedding two
                  weekends ago. They had complimentary Maine hammocks (with spreader
                  bars) on the beach, so I naturally dove in.

                  I was sooo uncomfortable. I kept thinking of this group and wanting
                  to email "where's the sweet spot" on a spreader bar hammock? They
                  are very flat.

                  sandy in miami


                  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > mary... i've been sleeping in a hammock nightly for over 2 years
                  now, so i had one handy to test a thought i had about your question.
                  > normally people suggest having the foot end of the hammock a few
                  inches higher than the head end simply because you will tend to find
                  your largest body mass (the torso) in the center of the hammock,
                  putting your feet in the small end of the hammock.
                  > but in your case (wanting to sleep w/ the head slightly
                  elevated) if you hang your hammock w/ the foot end maybe about one
                  foot lower, your feet will be near the small end of the hammock, but
                  your head is clearly higher. i just tried it.
                  > i believe i could sleep just fine that way.
                  > a couple other things...
                  > 1)... the type hammocks that most people are finding most
                  practical for camping these days are not the types w/ spreader bars
                  on each end. you'll find that type far less stable. look in the
                  picture gallery here for examples. better yet go to the speer
                  hammock web site for lots of pictures & info.
                  > ed is the owner of this yahoo group & a very nice & helpful
                  guy. his real job just keeps him from taking part here as much as he
                  would like<g>.
                  > to use inside your family tent, the top loading style (or speer
                  type) would be most appropriate. the hennessy hammocks have a
                  permanently attached bug net, so the only way to get to your stuff
                  (clothes, water, etc) would be to have it inside w/ you or get out of
                  the hammock through a bottom entry slit.
                  > 2)... of course you'll have to have a hammock stand. there are
                  several available that you could buy, but a couple things to keep in
                  mind are that they need to have a base that will be easy on your tent
                  floor & it should be long enough to fit the hammock you buy.
                  > there is one made by byer that i believe would fit the bill. i
                  believe it even adjusts in length.
                  > seems like it's about $89 or $99 bucks. they may sell that brand
                  at some of the sporting good stores so you could pick it up & save
                  the shipping.
                  > and i believe you could hang the foot lower on that stand.
                  > i'll try to get a few more details later unless you get to it
                  before me.
                  > there's another web site http://hammockforums.net where there
                  is at least one active thread where people are discussing hammock
                  stands. ...tim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mary Neal <sisjake@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I
                  need. I
                  > also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting position.
                  I won't
                  > let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking
                  for some
                  > way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
                  > self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a
                  pinch I can
                  > prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after
                  awhile.
                  > Mary
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                  > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • beentomadrid
                  Mary, I saw this at REI. It looks like it would fit in a good sized tent. You would have to try it out to see if it would work for your condition. Seems like
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 26, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mary,

                    I saw this at REI. It looks like it would fit in a good sized tent.
                    You would have to try it out to see if it would work for your
                    condition. Seems like it had a fair amount of sag when I tried it in
                    the store.

                    http://www.rei.com/product/708210?vcat=REI_SEARCH

                    Doug Campbell

                    --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I
                    need. I
                    > also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting
                    position. I won't
                    > let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking
                    for some
                    > way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
                    > self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a
                    pinch I can
                    > prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after
                    awhile.
                    > Mary
                    >
                    > >From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                    > >Reply-To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    > >To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock
                    > >Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:13:08 -0000
                    > >
                    > >If you want to sleep in a tent with your family, you might just
                    want
                    > >more cushioned pads or cots. Air mattress for camping that are 3
                    > >inches or so thick are likely what you want and can be had with
                    > >insulation inside them or without insulation. The department
                    stores
                    > >sell uninsulated ones for car camping in various sizes with manual
                    > >pumps or pumps you can plug into your car's cigarette lighter and
                    > >those are probably 6 inches or so thick. The least expensive ones
                    > >don't have insulation but you can use the insulation in the pads
                    you
                    > >have now by stacking them on top of the air mats and securing them
                    > >with one of several means if you need to, the simplest is just a
                    pair
                    > >of ribbons sewn together in the appropriate length loop that wraps
                    > >around both pads. How cold do you expect it to get... you are
                    likely
                    > >to need some insulation underneath you as well as cushioning?
                    > >
                    > >Youngblood
                    > >
                    > >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@>
                    wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I am looking for an inexpensive hammock. We (three kids and I)
                    are
                    > >going on
                    > > > a three week road camping trip to Alaska from Pennsylvania. I
                    found
                    > >out
                    > > > this last weekend that my "older" bones cannot handle just a
                    > >sleeping pad
                    > > > anymore (I have a ruptured disk in my lower back). I am open
                    for
                    > > > suggestions as to what type of portable, folding hammock to get,
                    > >space is at
                    > > > a premium as we are travelling in a four-door Saturn. The
                    hammock
                    > >will be
                    > > > put up inside the tent. I have looked at the one from Walmart,
                    and the
                    > > > Kelsyus. Any other suggestions?
                    > > > Mary
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm
                    Initiative
                    > >now.
                    > > > It's free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?
                    source=TAGHM_June07
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from
                    Microsoft
                    > Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/
                    >
                  • Stuhr, Tim
                    The Bed, Bath and Beyond had one of those out front of their store here a few weeks ago. I tried to lay in it and it just didn t feel real stable to me.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 26, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The Bed, Bath and Beyond had one of those out front of their store here
                      a few weeks ago. I tried to lay in it and it just didn't feel real
                      stable to me.

                      Stoikurt

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of beentomadrid
                      Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:09 AM
                      To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock

                      Mary,

                      I saw this at REI. It looks like it would fit in a good sized tent.
                      You would have to try it out to see if it would work for your
                      condition. Seems like it had a fair amount of sag when I tried it in
                      the store.

                      http://www.rei.com/product/708210?vcat=REI_SEARCH

                      Doug Campbell

                      --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > We've used air mattresses in the past, that isn't really what I
                      need. I
                      > also have acid reflux and need to sleep in a semi-sitting
                      position. I won't
                      > let my health problems interfere with my camping, so I am looking
                      for some
                      > way to adjust. I already own a Paco Pad, which is top of the line,
                      > self-inflatable and insulated...but it is just not enough. In a
                      pinch I can
                      > prop myself up on duffles but even that gets uncomfortable after
                      awhile.
                      > Mary
                      >
                      > >From: "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@...>
                      > >Reply-To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Looking for an inexpensive hammock
                      > >Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:13:08 -0000
                      > >
                      > >If you want to sleep in a tent with your family, you might just
                      want
                      > >more cushioned pads or cots. Air mattress for camping that are 3
                      > >inches or so thick are likely what you want and can be had with
                      > >insulation inside them or without insulation. The department
                      stores
                      > >sell uninsulated ones for car camping in various sizes with manual
                      > >pumps or pumps you can plug into your car's cigarette lighter and
                      > >those are probably 6 inches or so thick. The least expensive ones
                      > >don't have insulation but you can use the insulation in the pads
                      you
                      > >have now by stacking them on top of the air mats and securing them
                      > >with one of several means if you need to, the simplest is just a
                      pair
                      > >of ribbons sewn together in the appropriate length loop that wraps
                      > >around both pads. How cold do you expect it to get... you are
                      likely
                      > >to need some insulation underneath you as well as cushioning?
                      > >
                      > >Youngblood
                      > >
                      > >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Neal" <sisjake@>
                      wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I am looking for an inexpensive hammock. We (three kids and I)
                      are
                      > >going on
                      > > > a three week road camping trip to Alaska from Pennsylvania. I
                      found
                      > >out
                      > > > this last weekend that my "older" bones cannot handle just a
                      > >sleeping pad
                      > > > anymore (I have a ruptured disk in my lower back). I am open
                      for
                      > > > suggestions as to what type of portable, folding hammock to get,
                      > >space is at
                      > > > a premium as we are travelling in a four-door Saturn. The
                      hammock
                      > >will be
                      > > > put up inside the tent. I have looked at the one from Walmart,
                      and the
                      > > > Kelsyus. Any other suggestions?
                      > > > Mary
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      _________________________________________________________________
                      > > > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i'm
                      Initiative
                      > >now.
                      > > > It's free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?
                      source=TAGHM_June07
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
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